Author Topic: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)  (Read 87686 times)

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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #50 on: November 01, 2015, 13:00:24 »
Once they do that, they are no longer refugees in my books; but "Economic Migrants".

Harper's Government was working for three years to bring in families of Canadians of Syrian descent, doing the proper screening and ensuring that they would have the family resources and assistance to integrate into Canadian society.  There is no MAGIC WAND that can safely do that in two months and ensure that the "Economic Migrants" that Trudeau wants to bring in will not be a burden on our resources and Welfare System.  I will not dwell on security risks.


Very true, but ...

     1. Canadians were promised just that wand in the last election campaign;

     2. Canadians voted for the guys and gals who promised to do magic tricks; and

     3. Watch for the emphasized word to be sacrificed in the name of political expedience.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #51 on: November 01, 2015, 13:28:46 »
Germany
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEUARxP2NSI

Greece
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj8hpKx_oOk

Hungary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDMdtbfMnVE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl16QDk2sig



I'm actually pretty excited about this. 

1. My CCOI course was canceled. I'm still course wait listed so I'm hoping I get another chance at the course.
2. I hate flying, I'm thinking we'll be able to collect danger pay at home? (minus dudes crying because clerks get the same danger pay of course)
3. Won't have to miss my family for 6 months at a time.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2015, 13:56:41 by Jarnhamar »
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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #52 on: November 01, 2015, 13:43:42 »
Germany
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEUARxP2NSI

Greece
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj8hpKx_oOk

Hungary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDMdtbfMnVE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl16QDk2sig



I'm actually pretty excited about this. 

1. My CCOI course was canceled because the army didn't have (couldn't afford?) the ammo to run it. I'm still course wait listed so I'm hoping I get another chance at the course.
2. I hate flying, I'm thinking we'll be able to collect danger pay at home? (minus dudes crying because clerks get the same danger pay of course)
3. Won't have to miss my family for 6 months at a time.

If we open the floodgates is this what we will expect here or will we cave into them and give them everything they want?
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #53 on: November 01, 2015, 14:02:29 »
If we open the floodgates is this what we will expect here or will we cave into them and give them everything they want?

Good question.
Given the numerous examples of our LEOs ignoring latent crimes being committed like barricading roads, harassing travelers, trespassing etc.. by some First nations members I suspect the latter. I can envision our LEOs being told to back off in order to avoid bad publicity or images like in those videos I posted.  If 50 first nations members are allowed to blockade highways and national rail ways what can 25'000 refugees do?
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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #54 on: November 01, 2015, 14:19:48 »
Good question.
Given the numerous examples of our LEOs ignoring latent crimes being committed like barricading roads, harassing travelers, trespassing etc.. by some First nations members I suspect the latter. I can envision our LEOs being told to back off in order to avoid bad publicity or images like in those videos I posted.  If 50 first nations members are allowed to blockade highways and national rail ways what can 25'000 refugees do?

Problem is I suspect we have a lot more than 25'000 before long. I'm all about helping people however I would like to see these people be placed in a safe area and returned to their home country when and if their situation stabilizes. The social system cannot afford this. I wonder where all the bleeding hearts will be when start to have incidents like in Germany and the rest of Europe.
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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #55 on: November 01, 2015, 14:49:07 »
Problem is I suspect we have a lot more than 25'000 before long. I'm all about helping people however I would like to see these people be placed in a safe area and returned to their home country when and if their situation stabilizes. The social system cannot afford this. I wonder where all the bleeding hearts will be when start to have incidents like in Germany and the rest of Europe.

Walking around some of the streets in German cities right now is like walking around a street in a foreign land that is NOT Germany.  The numbers of Muslims and others from not only the Middle East, but South West Asia, Pakistan, Turkey and North Africa totally outnumber the German population. 
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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #56 on: November 01, 2015, 15:04:59 »
Don't worry, we're likely going to dump them into military bases. We'll still need ID to get onto the base, but the Syrians won't need a background check to live there.

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #57 on: November 01, 2015, 15:30:00 »
Nice spot out near Five Fingers.
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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #58 on: November 01, 2015, 15:40:28 »
I recommended we use the urban ops sites, plenty of empty buildings.

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #59 on: November 01, 2015, 15:44:34 »
I recommended we use the urban ops sites, plenty of empty buildings.

Some will probably feel at home with the bullet marks on the walls and soldiers doing dynamic entries all over the place.
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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2015, 15:50:18 »
Interesting times indeed.  I fear for my children and future grandchildren. 
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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #61 on: November 01, 2015, 22:16:05 »
Winnipeg South is ready and waiting - chain link fences included.
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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #62 on: November 02, 2015, 09:22:17 »
The longer this thread gets, the more and more it begins to sound like a bunch of people scared this influx will begin to "darken" the population and convert the masses. Did you all have these same fears when we brought in the Vietnamese 30 years ago? Were you not scared they would begin slowly infiltrate the political system and bring about a new communist state?

Has anyone done the research on who these people are that are leaving Syria? The masses are people who are trying to escape the war and terror of their homeland. Sure, maybe they are economic migrants trying to find a better life for themselves and their families, but so were the Irish, who also were bringing their own religious beliefs with them.

25,000 individuals would make up a minuscule portion of the Canadian population as a whole. Even if they all came in and went on welfare, if you divied them up and put 2500 in each province, their demand on social assistance programs would be negligible to those who are already on welfare. More than likely though, a large majority of them might actually become gainfully employed, some might even be professionals who would improve Canadian society.   


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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #63 on: November 02, 2015, 09:30:32 »
The longer this thread gets, the more and more it begins to sound like a bunch of people scared this influx will begin to "darken" the population and convert the masses. Did you all have these same fears when we brought in the Vietnamese 30 years ago? Were you not scared they would begin slowly infiltrate the political system and bring about a new communist state?

Has anyone done the research on who these people are that are leaving Syria? The masses are people who are trying to escape the war and terror of their homeland. Sure, maybe they are economic migrants trying to find a better life for themselves and their families, but so were the Irish, who also were bringing their own religious beliefs with them.

25,000 individuals would make up a minuscule portion of the Canadian population as a whole. Even if they all came in and went on welfare, if you divide them up and put 2500 in each province, their demand on social assistance programs would be negligible to those who are already on welfare. More than likely though, a large majority of them might actually become gainfully employed, some might even be professionals who would improve Canadian society.

I wasn't concerned that any of the boat people "might" be sleeper agents, or want to commit acts I would consider terrorism when they arrived here.  The only concerns I had with the boat people was in getting into a traffic accident with one.  There were a few examples of them stabbing the poor ******* they collided with.  And their winter driving capabilities were down right scary for the first winter or two.  Otherwise, they've fitted in nicely. 

I have no doubt there will be those members of the Syrian refugees that will make outstanding, excellent immigrants and can bring things to the table for the benefit of this country.  I have no issues with these people coming and quite frankly welcome their arrival as we do need immigrants.  I want the immigrants who come to this country will be of a benefit to this country, not a security concern or drain on resources.

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #64 on: November 02, 2015, 09:37:46 »
The longer this thread gets, the more and more it begins to sound like a bunch of people scared this influx will begin to "darken" the population and convert the masses. Did you all have these same fears when we brought in the Vietnamese 30 years ago? Were you not scared they would begin slowly infiltrate the political system and bring about a new communist state?

Has anyone done the research on who these people are that are leaving Syria? The masses are people who are trying to escape the war and terror of their homeland. Sure, maybe they are economic migrants trying to find a better life for themselves and their families, but so were the Irish, who also were bringing their own religious beliefs with them.

25,000 individuals would make up a minuscule portion of the Canadian population as a whole. Even if they all came in and went on welfare, if you divied them up and put 2500 in each province, their demand on social assistance programs would be negligible to those who are already on welfare. More than likely though, a large majority of them might actually become gainfully employed, some might even be professionals who would improve Canadian society.

The difference is that this migrant group is not solely from Syria, which is the cause du jour of the incoming government when it comes to refugees, but from many other countries as well looking to specifically country shop. Go talk to your int shop.  I'm sure they can show you the numbers.

On top of that, when the Vietnamese and Kosovars came during their respective crisis, it was carefully managed and very specific to those countires.  Because of the country shopping going on, people are worried that the same thing is going to happen here and, until they are shown otherwise with a set plan that will ensure the refugees being accepted are indeed from Syria, that is what they will believe.

Lack of information tends to breed fear. 
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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #65 on: November 02, 2015, 09:39:18 »
The longer this thread gets, the more and more it begins to sound like a bunch of people scared this influx will begin to "darken" the population and convert the masses. Did you all have these same fears when we brought in the Vietnamese 30 years ago? Were you not scared they would begin slowly infiltrate the political system and bring about a new communist state?

Has anyone done the research on who these people are that are leaving Syria? The masses are people who are trying to escape the war and terror of their homeland. Sure, maybe they are economic migrants trying to find a better life for themselves and their families, but so were the Irish, who also were bringing their own religious beliefs with them.

25,000 individuals would make up a minuscule portion of the Canadian population as a whole. Even if they all came in and went on welfare, if you divied them up and put 2500 in each province, their demand on social assistance programs would be negligible to those who are already on welfare. More than likely though, a large majority of them might actually become gainfully employed, some might even be professionals who would improve Canadian society.

I agree completely.  I've got no problem letting refugees in to the country, I just want to make sure it's done properly and not in some sort of halfassed fashion for short term political points.  I would even consider letting some stay with me. 

I would like to see some smaller communities take these people on.  I think showing them some good old rural Canadian hospitality would be a good introduction to the country.  Would definitely be preferable to throwing them in to an urban ghetto. 

A society should be judged on how it treats the vagrants and least fortunate members.

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #66 on: November 02, 2015, 09:51:03 »
I agree completely.  I've got no problem letting refugees in to the country, I just want to make sure it's done properly and not in some sort of halfassed fashion for short term political points.  I would even consider letting some stay with me. 

I would like to see some smaller communities take these people on.  I think showing them some good old rural Canadian hospitality would be a good introduction to the country.  Would definitely be preferable to throwing them in to an urban ghetto.  

A society should be judged on how it treats the vagrants and least fortunate members.

I wholeheartedly agree with the highlighted portion. Find smaller communities that can both accept and support these family units. How many small communities have those one or two Vietnamese families that make you wonder, "how in the hell did they end up here running a variety store?"

Maybe we could try to pluck out some medical staff from the groups of migrants, fast track their equivalencies (as opposed to the impossible system in place now) and co-locate them in areas where we settle the migrants.

I'm thinking of a real life "Little Mosque on the Prairie" setups. 

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #67 on: November 02, 2015, 10:24:10 »
Personnaly, I have no problems taking in 25,000 real refugees.

My problem is the following: If you take them in hurriedly on the basis that you will do the proper screening after they get into Canada, then can someone tell me HOW and WHERE do you return the ones that fail security screening?

And BTW, captloadie, spreading them evenly on welfare to all provinces, so 2500 per province would bring at least one province's system, PEI, to a breaking point.

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #68 on: November 02, 2015, 10:42:13 »
Personnaly, I have no problems taking in 25,000 real refugees.

My problem is the following: If you take them in hurriedly on the basis that you will do the proper screening after they get into Canada, then can someone tell me HOW and WHERE do you return the ones that fail security screening?

And BTW, captloadie, spreading them evenly on welfare to all provinces, so 2500 per province would bring at least one province's system, PEI, to a breaking point.

Well, from what I can understand from the soon to be former prime minister, we have to take an expansive view of PEI and include the Ottawa suburb of Kanata (population 80K) in any discussion of PEI...


(The fallacy of keeping PEI, NS, NB and NL as four distinct provinces is another issue that needs to be addressed; the combined population is low, while the political influence at the federal level is grossly oversized.  And the resulting ongoing federal pandering with EI rules etc has resulted in today's reality in Atlantic Canada)
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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #69 on: November 02, 2015, 11:04:56 »
Aiming at sacred cows is sure to create a visceral response. Highly unlikely they will offended such well trained voters.

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #70 on: November 02, 2015, 11:19:49 »
I wholeheartedly agree with the highlighted portion. Find smaller communities that can both accept and support these family units. How many small communities have those one or two Vietnamese families that make you wonder, "how in the hell did they end up here running a variety store?"

Maybe we could try to pluck out some medical staff from the groups of migrants, fast track their equivalencies (as opposed to the impossible system in place now) and co-locate them in areas where we settle the migrants.

I'm thinking of a real life "Little Mosque on the Prairie" setups.

Could the authorities actually order the migrants to settle in rural places? 
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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #71 on: November 02, 2015, 11:20:12 »
Well, from what I can understand from the soon to be former prime minister, we have to take an expansive view of PEI and include the Ottawa suburb of Kanata (population 80K) in any discussion of PEI...


(The fallacy of keeping PEI, NS, NB and NL as four distinct provinces is another issue that needs to be addressed; the combined population is low, while the political influence at the federal level is grossly oversized.  And the resulting ongoing federal pandering with EI rules etc has resulted in today's reality in Atlantic Canada)


So to be fair and unbiased, if the current wishes of the Atlantic area wish to follow Liberal policies and accept their  entitlements ala Dingwall, they should be willing to accept their apportionment of the incoming Syrian Refugees. (based on provincial apportionment, of course)
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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #72 on: November 02, 2015, 11:47:03 »
Could the authorities actually order the migrants to settle in rural places?

They wouldn't settle there but the refugee camps could be set up there and this would represent their initial taste of Canada.  A lot of smaller towns have declining population and have plenty of suitable facilities for this sort of thing (old schools, unused arenas, etc).  A refugee centre could be set up in fairly short order, the military could support this sort of initiative and it would be a good way to get the Army Reserves involved as well.  I would lean on the Army Reserves heavily in this instance as many Reserve Units have deep connections within their respective communities and know which strings to pull to make things happen.

The deal would need to be sweetened of course, perhaps every community handling the refugees would receive a large pot of Federal money, part of which would go towards the refugees and the rest could be used for other projects needed in the community it self.  They would basically receive a subsidy in exchange for looking after the influx of refugees.  Teams of experts could also be surged in to these communities to provide a variety of social services. 

This idea also has an ulterior motive behind it.  This sort of campaign could serve as a very powerful counter-narrative for us to use against our enemies (fundamentalists).  I see it as a sort of IO campaign conducted at the strategic level.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 12:14:04 by Humphrey Bogart »

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #74 on: November 02, 2015, 12:10:49 »
Maybe we could try to pluck out some medical staff from the groups of migrants, fast track their equivalencies (as opposed to the impossible system in place now) and co-locate them in areas where we settle the migrants.
1)  That's mostly up to the self-governing doctor groups out there.
2)  As a specialized sub-set of migrants, I'm guessing places would be happy to put up a doc and his/her family to treat NON-refugees in communities aching for an MD.

I'm thinking of a real life "Little Mosque on the Prairie" setups.
I remain optimistic, but I don't know if I'd be THAT optimistic ....

Could the authorities actually order the migrants to settle in rural places?
In previous waves of migration, Canada has said, "we have a job and a place to live for you at a gold mine in Northern Ontario", with a "no" leading to someone else being offered said job/slot.  That, though, was another time ....

A few factors to consider:
-  Are we moving people temporarily or long-term?  (temporary = OK in a smaller place without as many job prospects vs. long-term = need for higher chance of finding longer-term gainful employment)
-  Are we aiming to move them to be near folks already here from "the old country", or to have them learn "the Canadian way" via assimilation/acculturation "cold turkey"?
-  How many refugee/migrants are willing to move to a smaller centre with fewer resources?
-  How many small centres want to take on new folks?

The deal would need to be sweetened of course, perhaps every community handling the refugees would receive a large pot of Federal money, part of which would go towards the refugees and the rest could be used for other projects needed in the community it self. 
That, too, would affect the calculus considerably as well.
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