Author Topic: Can Parents Trigger Release/Withdraw Consent for Minor Recruits  (Read 8111 times)

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Offline LPike

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Hello all,

I recently joined the PRes and am going through basic training. However, my parents are none too happy about it. They signed the form stating that I could join (I am a minor), however, recently they have gone sour. They keep threatening to "email my chain of command" and force them to release me, and they have stopped me from attending training nights should I make a mistake at home (and emailing my COC if I disagree).

My question is, is this even legal, or possible. Will my COC actually go with it should they email them?

TIA, and cheers!
PRes INT OP

Offline mariomike

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Re: Can Family Trigger VR process? (PRes)
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2016, 16:29:34 »
How old are you now?

Offline AbdullahD

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Re: Can Family Trigger VR process? (PRes)
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2016, 16:36:55 »
How old are you now?

as per his profile he looks to be 17
Recruting Center: Vancouver
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Trade Choice 1: MSEOP
Application Date: 09/22/2016
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CFAT- 10/15/2016 Passed
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Position Offered: TBA
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Can Family Trigger VR process? (PRes)
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2016, 16:40:18 »
as per his profile he looks to be 17

Saw that. Wondered if he may have had a birthday since then.

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Re: Can Family Trigger VR process? (PRes)
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2016, 16:42:15 »
Hello all,
I recently joined the PRes and am going through basic training. However, my parents are none too happy about it. They signed the form stating that I could join (I am a minor), however, recently they have gone sour. They keep threatening to "email my chain of command" and force them to release me, and they have stopped me from attending training nights should I make a mistake at home (and emailing my COC if I disagree).
My question is, is this even legal, or possible. Will my COC actually go with it should they email them?
TIA, and cheers!

If you are still a "minor" (ie; under 18), then anything is possible.  If you are "18" now, it's your decision what to do   If you are under "18" you best bring this up with your local Unit and get them to seek higher level advice.
Got a question that you're afraid to ask online?  PM me!  I don't bite........

Offline LPike

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Re: Can Family Trigger VR process? (PRes)
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2016, 18:35:09 »
How old are you now?

as per his profile he looks to be 17

17. Turned 17 last sunday, had a BMQ birthday.
PRes INT OP

Offline LPike

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Re: Can Family Trigger VR process? (PRes)
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2016, 18:38:01 »
If you are still a "minor" (IE; under 18), then anything is possible.  If you are "18" now, it's your decision what to do   If you are under "18" you best bring this up with your local Unit and get them to seek higher level advice.

Thanks. I think that is, quite unfortunately, the case. I have considered approaching my unit, but to be quite frank, it's a bit embarrassing.

Cheers, thanks for your input.
PRes INT OP

Offline AbdullahD

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Re: Can Family Trigger VR process? (PRes)
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2016, 19:34:15 »
Thanks. I think that is, quite unfortunately, the case. I have considered approaching my unit, but to be quite frank, it's a bit embarrassing.

Cheers, thanks for your input.

To be honest, just toe the line and be an extra good kid. I have my own kids, so take it for what its worth.

Be a good kid, tell your parents all the good things you're  getting from the reserves and pray for the best.

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Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: Can Family Trigger VR process? (PRes)
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2016, 19:37:07 »
To be honest, just toe the line and be an extra good kid. I have my own kids, so take it for what its worth.

Be a good kid, tell your parents all the good things you're  getting from the reserves and pray for the best.

my .02 take with salt

Well Said.

LPike, I know what you are going through.,  My parents were not thrilled with me joining.  I did not handle it well with them.

Try, pleas try, if you can to sit them down and explain why you enjoy going.  You got to understand, your parents are looking out for your best interest too.  Listen to why they don't want you there, don't pull a "Tess" and lose your Raspberries!!


I hope it works for you brother!

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Offline mariomike

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Re: Can Family Trigger VR process? (PRes)
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2016, 19:42:37 »
However, my parents are none too happy about it.

LPike, not trying to influence you one way or the other, but in case you have not read it already, there is 20 pages of advice here,

How to get family on board 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=13678.0;nowap

For what it is worth, I joined the militia when I was 16, but my parents were on board with it.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 19:55:27 by mariomike »

Offline LPike

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Re: Can Family Trigger VR process? (PRes)
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2016, 20:11:15 »
To be honest, just toe the line and be an extra good kid. I have my own kids, so take it for what its worth.

Be a good kid, tell your parents all the good things you're  getting from the reserves and pray for the best.

my .02 take with salt

Well, one tries. I'll start seeing what I can do. Thanks for the advice.

LPike, not trying to influence you one way or the other, but in case you have not read it already, there is 20 pages of advice here,

How to get family on board 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=13678.0;nowap

I hadn't seen that upon my trawling of army.ca. Looks like I have a good nights reading set out for me.

 
Well Said.

LPike, I know what you are going through.,  My parents were not thrilled with me joining.  I did not handle it well with them.

Try, pleas try, if you can to sit them down and explain why you enjoy going.  You got to understand, your parents are looking out for your best interest too.  Listen to why they don't want you there, don't pull a "Tess" and lose your Raspberries!!


I hope it works for you brother!



Thanks for the words of advice. I know throwing a tantrum is hardly going to help my case, after all!
PRes INT OP

Offline FJAG

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Re: Can Family Trigger VR process? (PRes)
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2016, 21:11:49 »
I've been asked to throw my two cents into this discussion because of my legal background in the CF but honestly, I have no idea which way this would go. I would think that someone from within the CF recruiting system should have encountered this before and perhaps have an internal policy instruction to rely on.

Legally there are two competing issues:

One - enrolment is a one time event and the regulations simply state that the consent is required to effect the enrolment. There is nothing in the enrolment legislation/regulations that requires that the consent to be a continuing consent.

Two - childhood (and parental authority) is a continuing event until the age majority is reached or the child becomes legally emancipated.

In my humble and very legalistic view, the consent is a one-time consent to enrolment and not required for continued service in the CF. Once freely given, and once enrolment is completed, the consent is no longer revocable and the individual remains a member. And as I've said many many times before -- I'm retired now, no longer practice law and this is therefore not a legal opinion but merely a wild a**ed educated guess.

That said, the CF is a terribly risk averse organization and would undoubtedly not wish to be involved in a hissy fit between a son and his parents.

The line that you use ". . . they have stopped me from attending training nights should I make a mistake at home . . ." makes me wonder if their position on your military service is more a manner of disciplining you for other issues rather than a fundamental disagreement with military service. Maybe I'm reading too much into that.

I agree with what most of the other folks here have said: the issue is one that you need to resolve with your parents. The chain of command is not about to take your side and tell them to get into line for you. At best your parents' threatened actions will be an embarrassment for you and at worst can lead to you being considered an administrative burden for your unit.

Best of luck.

 :cheers:
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Offline Pieman

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Re: Can Family Trigger VR process? (PRes)
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2016, 22:21:26 »
Quote
They signed the form stating that I could join (I am a minor), however, recently they have gone sour. They keep threatening to "email my chain of command" and force them to release me, and they have stopped me from attending training nights should I make a mistake at home (and emailing my COC if I disagree).

Do your parents have any concept in what you are actually doing? It's not the boy scouts you are in, and if it's responsibility and dicipline they are trying to teach you, your obligations to the CF are right up there with that concept.

Perhaps getting them a tour of where you work will help smooth things over?
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Re: Can Family Trigger VR process? (PRes)
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2016, 23:03:52 »
Just make sure that your Chain of Command (CoC) are informed of the situation and YOUR wishes about remaining in the CAF. They don't need to be caught out in left field on this.
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Offline RocketRichard

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Re: Can Family Trigger VR process? (PRes)
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2016, 23:19:23 »
I don't believe the C.F. would be 'in loco parentis' as teachers and school administrators are.  The advice given by others a) to ensure your unit is aware of potential opposition by your parents and b) trying to get your parents on board is sound.  Good luck.

Offline ModlrMike

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Re: Can Family Trigger VR process? (PRes)
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2016, 23:39:42 »
I've been asked to throw my two cents into this discussion because of my legal background in the CF but honestly, I have no idea which way this would go. I would think that someone from within the CF recruiting system should have encountered this before and perhaps have an internal policy instruction to rely on.

Legally there are two competing issues:

One - enrolment is a one time event and the regulations simply state that the consent is required to effect the enrolment. There is nothing in the enrolment legislation/regulations that requires that the consent to be a continuing consent.

Two - childhood (and parental authority) is a continuing event until the age majority is reached or the child becomes legally emancipated.

In my humble and very legalistic view, the consent is a one-time consent to enrolment and not required for continued service in the CF. Once freely given, and once enrolment is completed, the consent is no longer revocable and the individual remains a member. And as I've said many many times before -- I'm retired now, no longer practice law and this is therefore not a legal opinion but merely a wild a**ed educated guess.

That said, the CF is a terribly risk averse organization and would undoubtedly not wish to be involved in a hissy fit between a son and his parents.

The line that you use ". . . they have stopped me from attending training nights should I make a mistake at home . . ." makes me wonder if their position on your military service is more a manner of disciplining you for other issues rather than a fundamental disagreement with military service. Maybe I'm reading too much into that.

I agree with what most of the other folks here have said: the issue is one that you need to resolve with your parents. The chain of command is not about to take your side and tell them to get into line for you. At best your parents' threatened actions will be an embarrassment for you and at worst can lead to you being considered an administrative burden for your unit.

Best of luck.

 :cheers:

I would add:

Three - once consent is given for the child to enrol in a military force, does that not provide a level of emancipation?
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Offline donaldk

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Re: Can Family Trigger VR process? (PRes)
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2016, 01:08:24 »
One line I tossed to my mother back in the day when she thought negatively about me joining PRes was "Want to pay for my and -my brother's- university costs?  We need this for school - You can't afford it, this debate ends now".  If your parents finances are rough, you can start a similar debate with them - and PRes can pay very well if you work it right (When security changes with 9/11 happened... I made good money doing boats/gate duty).

I Joined at 16 in the PRes (for the short time they allowed this)... 15 years later as a RegF member I am not regretting my move.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Can Family Trigger VR process? (PRes)
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2016, 08:22:24 »
I Joined at 16 in the PRes (for the short time they allowed this)...

I believe they still do...

•Reserve Force - Applicants may be 16 years of age if they are also enrolled as a full-time high school student.
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100#who

Reserve Force joining age has been much discussed on here,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+age+16&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=tTnxVp2fFOiM8QfdpIHwAw&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+%22age+16%22

Be a good kid, tell your parents all the good things you're  getting from the reserves and pray for the best.

This is in the "How to get family on board discussion", but I will add it here,

Info for Families
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/forfamilies-151
"The many advantages of joining the Reserve Force include working part time without long-term commitment, serving in the local community, and gaining valuable skills that will apply to alternate careers."

« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 09:01:58 by mariomike »

Offline FJAG

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Re: Can Family Trigger VR process? (PRes)
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2016, 11:42:55 »
I would add:

Three - once consent is given for the child to enrol in a military force, does that not provide a level of emancipation?

No. Emancipation is a legal process supervised by the courts where a child is freed from the legal control of his/her parents/guardians and concurrently the parent(s) are freed of the legal parental responsibility to provide, house, clothe  etc for the child

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Offline tyorke0

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Can parents withdraw consent ( P Res under 17 years old)
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2017, 17:46:28 »
Not sure if the this is the right spot for this but my question is if your already in the primary reserves and your parents want to take you out of it ( I am 16 ) are they able to withdraw consent and pull me out of the army?


Thanks

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Can parents withdraw consent ( P Res under 17 years old)
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2017, 18:20:51 »
As usual, a recruiting office will be your best bet to ask that question.

In practice, I suspect you will find that parental consent is required to enrol. Once enrolled, your parents play no part in the process anymore. The military is not a local sports team or boy scout troop from which, your parents can "pull you out" if, say, they don't like your college marks, etc.. Once in, you are solely in charge of your ongoing service with a reserve unit.

I other words, if parents of a 16/17 years old seaman at my reserve units came to tell me they don't want their son/daughter to serve in the military anymore, I would tell them in a nice, polite but no uncertain away to go fly a kite - it's none of their business anymore.

I may be wrong here (don't know recent decisions) but actually being a member of the CAF - with your parents authorization at the time of enrolment - has been considered a favourable fact when a minor applies for a statement of "emancipation*" from a court.

* emancipation is a legal status whereby a minor is authorized, from now on, by a court to have all of the rights (save voting) and obligations of an adult without the need for parental/guardian authorizations.

Offline runormal

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Re: Can parents withdraw consent ( P Res under 17 years old)
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2017, 18:27:29 »
What are their concerns? Perhaps you can answers to some of their concerns on here. You can't be deployed until you are 18, so I'm not sure what the real concern would be.

Essentially telling your parents to "frig Off"  isn't the best course of action because you presumably live with them, however it's your life so it would be beneficial to both of you if you two can meet in the middle.

Offline Ryan_T

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Re: Can Parents Trigger Release/Withdraw Consent for Minor Recruits
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2017, 19:46:55 »
Not sure if the this is the right spot for this but my question is if your already in the primary reserves and your parents want to take you out of it ( I am 16 ) are they able to withdraw consent and pull me out of the army?


Thanks
It takes time to leave.. you cant just hand in notice and two weeks you are out. It can takes months.

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Offline Ryan_T

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Re: Can Parents Trigger Release/Withdraw Consent for Minor Recruits
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2017, 19:52:23 »
Thats on a personal side of things. You still have a job to go to. And in this case, its servicing the country.

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Can Parents Trigger Release/Withdraw Consent for Minor Recruits
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2017, 20:00:18 »
The PRes are completely "VOLUNTARY".  The only punishment for not showing up for "Parades" and training is that the person after a period of four weeks will be put on the NES list and the Release process will begin.  If the person's parents keep them at home, causing them to miss training, then they fall under those conditions, personal or not. 

The way this discussion is going is all speculation.  No one, except the OP, knows what circumstances the OP is finding themself in.  If it continues for too long, the OP will have likely moved out, got married, and raise kids who they can then sign authorization to join the PRes.

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