Author Topic: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible  (Read 18489 times)

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Offline NSDreamer

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Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« on: March 30, 2016, 11:59:39 »
 I can't believe there isn't a thread already. Does no one else have civilian employees on here!


 Is ANYONE having any success with the phoenix pay system? I am having problem, after problem trying to get my people paid...+

It'll be cheaper they said, it'll be easier they said, senior officers are now pay clerks they should have said  :facepalm:
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2016, 12:08:18 »
Are your folks casuals?  Term?  Students?

For indeterminate pers, it seems to be ticking along just fine.

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Offline Remius

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2016, 12:14:18 »
Working fine where I'm at.
Optio

Offline NSDreamer

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2016, 12:18:03 »
I've got over 30 indeterminates. If it works, it's great. It doesn't work if any of the following is true:

They are  on Return to Work Program.
They are Casuals.
They work ANY irregular hours or are a shift worker.
They are on pre-retirement transitionary schedules.
They work weekends.

 I've got folks on the return to work program who didn't get paid, had their hours in, which I can't see because I'm military, then I got the run around from pay comp and phoenix with contradicting directions, eventually with HR help submitted an emergency pay request as the employees in question are in financial hardship. Emergency pay request is then denied because derp derp they should have submitted in the phoenix system...which they did.

God help me with my shift workers, I have to manually submit every single employees schedule every pay run and have it signed by a section 34 authority (which I am not). Also keep in mind I don't have access to the system to submit them in because I'm military, so I  have to submit them in the pay enquiry system who then...derp derp deny them and tell me to somehow magically submit them in phoenix. I have the Sect 34 submit them, nope MUST be their direct manager...and it goes on. I've probably put over 10 man hours a week into this since phoenix came out.

 *edited some bad grammar and typos.
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Offline NSDreamer

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2016, 12:20:27 »
Working fine where I'm at.


...trade? :nod:
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Offline cavalryman

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2016, 12:28:24 »
Cheer up.  The CAF will be paid via the Phoenix system sometime in 2021  [:p

Offline NSDreamer

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2016, 12:58:18 »
Cheer up.  The CAF will be paid via the Phoenix system sometime in 2021  [:p

Heh, but at least this should be easy...I mean we all work 7.5 hours a day, every day, no schedules matter....right?

Poor reservists though...that's going to suck.
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Offline Remius

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2016, 13:04:31 »

...trade? :nod:

If you are willing to put up with understaffing, vague priorities and high turnover...wait maybe we work for the same people?

Kidding btw.
Optio

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2016, 13:48:57 »
I've got over 30 indeterminates. If it works, it's great. It doesn't work if any of the following is true:

They are  on Return to Work Program.
They are Casuals.
They work ANY irregular hours or are a shift worker.
They are on pre-retirement transitionary schedules.
They work weekends.

 I've got folks on the return to work program who didn't get paid, had their hours in, which I can't see because I'm military, then I got the run around from pay comp and phoenix with contradicting directions, eventually with HR help submitted an emergency pay request as the employees in question are in financial hardship. Emergency pay request is then denied because derp derp they should have submitted in the phoenix system...which they did.

God help me with my shift workers, I have to manually submit every single employees schedule every pay run and have it signed by a section 34 authority (which I am not). Also keep in mind I don't have access to the system to submit them in because I'm military, so I  have to submit them in the pay enquiry system who then...derp derp deny them and tell me to somehow magically submit them in phoenix. I have the Sect 34 submit them, nope MUST be their direct manager...and it goes on. I've probably put over 10 man hours a week into this since phoenix came out.

 *edited some bad grammar and typos.

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Offline NSDreamer

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2016, 14:27:34 »
If you are willing to put up with understaffing, vague priorities and high turnover...wait maybe we work for the same people?

Kidding btw.

-eyes his half packed suit case- I'll....just put this stuff back then...
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Offline NSDreamer

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2016, 14:28:26 »
Welcome to my world!!

 Haha it's crowded here from what HR is telling me, we've got a lot of neighbors in the same boat.
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Public Service Pay System
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2016, 12:53:45 »
The Government roll out its new Pay system for public servants and it seems it has some major issues:

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/ottawa/phoenix-pay-single-mother-1.3677464

How can a Government be so passive with its servants that it leaves them without a salary for months?!  Are people being held accountable? Or, as good Canadians, we'll just say that there were no ill intentions and turn a blind eye to incompetence?  Is there any active effort into implementing temporary measures?

I just can't believe this happens in this day and age.  I hope the affected people take the Government to court and wins....

Offline Scott

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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2016, 14:02:59 »
I'm sure the transition to PHOENIX will be flawless, should the CAF change over from its current pay system(s).


...and folks thought RPSR was a "slightly less than optimal" pay system...

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Offline marinemech

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2016, 14:22:48 »
i am surprised that the people have not started going after the maker of the problem system...IBM... the old system worked and now the system does not work, and is having rather disastrous effects across the board, will they be held accountable (highly doubt it - likely have protection clause)   

Offline DAA

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2016, 14:33:13 »
Had a nice chat last week with an elected official and when the topic came up, even they mentioned that their staff were having issues with receiving payments.

I'm not familiar with the new system but I can't see it being too difficult to issue "contingency" and or "cheque" payments similar to the way the CAF works.  There was the odd time where a member on deployment was not paid, the spouse called to inquire and within the hour, someone was knocking on their door to hand deliver a cheque and ready to take them to the bank to cash it if need be.   But in todays systems, it's all DFT.  So whilst the problem can be identified and hopefully resolved quickly, it will still take 2-4 days for the payment to show up in the persons bank account.

It's all about "customer service" and when someone goes that long without receiving payment, there's obviously something wrong and not just with the Phoenix System.
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Offline captloadie

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2016, 14:42:01 »
I would be shocked if it turns out to be the software. As other's have said, if you work a plain jane vanilla job with nothing that changes and have been there awhile, no issues the system works fine. The issue, from where I sit, and the problems that I am dealing with, all have to do with the process and the individuals implementing it. There aren't enough people to manually input and approve the new hires, overtime, deployments, etc. and answer the phones/e-mails, and learn the new system.

On our base, the powers that be have authorized several emergency cash payments as advances on pay from the cashier. This was after getting fed up when no one in the CHRO's CoC would sign off on the payments, even though we had an approved process in place from RCAF command.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2016, 14:44:33 »
Is it that the new computer system does not work, or that there are problems in implementing the new processes around the new system?  Are there problems with source HR data that never came out before because data was entered twice - once into the pay system and once into the HR system?  Ultimately, building a single unified system to do HR and pay should result in better quality data in the system, improving service to individuals and reducing the cost of maintaining the system.  But getting from a wide array of different systems with different levels of data quality to a single system is more of a challenge than initially thought.

That said, there do appear to be managers not familiar with their responsibility to look after their subordinates.  If one of my staff was unpaid for months on end, I would be engaging on their behalf, and arranging emergency payments if required.  Stories in the news of folks eating boiled rice three meals a day, or having maxxed out credit cards all because they are not being paid are indications of pay system problems, but also of management and leadership problems that no amount of technology will address.


(For the record: my pay under the new system currently has at least five glitches that I have identified - cancellation of payments, deducting pension contributions on earnings I am not being paid, and lack of withholding of certain deductions.  I'm not in a dire situation by any stretch of the imagination, though.)
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Offline captloadie

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2016, 16:10:48 »
Except only the affected member or a Trusted Source can contact the pay centre. There is actually very little a manager can do, to get an individual their money. We have a cashier here, so we just went ahead and made emergency cash payments, after accessing the risk. But, there are very few other departments that can do something like this. Nobody can produce local cheques anymore, and very few organizations have petty cash. And, for casual employees and students, there is no way to recover the funds if any overpayments are made, so in a risk averse organization, that is a factor.

Offline DAA

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2016, 16:21:09 »
Except only the affected member or a Trusted Source can contact the pay centre. There is actually very little a manager can do, to get an individual their money. We have a cashier here, so we just went ahead and made emergency cash payments, after accessing the risk. But, there are very few other departments that can do something like this. Nobody can produce local cheques anymore, and very few organizations have petty cash. And, for casual employees and students, there is no way to recover the funds if any overpayments are made, so in a risk averse organization, that is a factor.

Interesting.  Two separate systems as far as I know.  How do you plan on recovering your "advanced" payments from the civilian employee once they do get paid?
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Offline captloadie

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2016, 16:32:42 »
They are two separate systems. We gave him an advance on his pay, using a CF52 I believe, and paid him in cash. The expectation is he will bring in the funds to repay the advance on his pay once the lump sum comes in. Yes, there is risk, but there are methods to submit a pay debit against indeterminate civilian pay if he doesn't. Sometimes you need to do what is right.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2016, 22:52:44 »
Managers can do little directly, but they can put pressure upwards.  They can gather information to push it higher so that their supervisors, directors and directors general know the scope of the problem and the people whose lives are being affected.  Which, of course, lets the affected employee know that someone is on their side and making more efforts on their behalf.

Or they can sit back and think that it's someone else's problem to resolve.

Interesting that despite all the "Blueprint 2020" and other feel-good buzzwords about embracing new tools for communication, a quick look at the twitter feeds for the Clerk of the Privy Council, the ADM at PSPC responsible for Phoenix and her second in command shows... nothing.  Not a word.  A comms lockdown, it would appear...

https://twitter.com/Clerk_GC https://twitter.com/brigitte_fortin https://twitter.com/rosannadipaola


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Offline runormal

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2016, 07:16:21 »
Personally not having any problems, but definitely are issues in my organization/government wide.

A good buddy of mine went from a casual to indeterminate in the same job/department (different position #/team) He hasn't been paid in almost 2 months. He got an emergency payment, but he has been living off his savings.

I feel that there are multiple problems:

- Rolled out too quickly (# of departments/lack of testing) http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/government-expanding-new-pay-system-to-67-departments-despite-fact-its-been-a-disaster-so-far
- Under-specified in requirements (Haven't researched this, but giving IBM the benefit of the doubt, and knowing that there are a lot of special situations within the government)
- Centralization of pay services at the same, while cutting pay advisers from most organizations (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/miramichi-public-service-pay-centre-staff-struggling-with-workload-1.3126806)

While I work the standard 7.5/day 35 hours a week and have no leave/benefits as a casual, it has "worked" for me . The biggest gripe I have for leave is I can't officially request/report it until the week of, so if I want to book something off in two months in advance, yes I can ask my manager but I can't physically book it off until that week. With the old system I would of just requested it and pay would have processed it and no issues there. Seeing how some people haven't been paid for months, I'm not going to ***** to loudly at this.


Online Colin P

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2016, 10:35:22 »
I suspect Be a "team player and stop being so critical" is a major factor in this. No one is willing to stand in front of the cart and say "it's not ready"

Offline blackberet17

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2016, 10:42:45 »
Adding to runnormal's points:

- hiring of almost entirely new staff to work the Pheonix pay system - the majority of the personnel working in the regional pay systems were let go, and new staff hired in Miramichi. This was partly as compensation for Miramichi losing the gun registry;
- failure to take care and correct the glitches as they occurred and pay services were switched over; these were ignored, and more and more departments were switched over.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2016, 12:23:23 »
PSPC has quietly set up a web page to provide updateson addressing pay issues.  It's at: http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/remuneration-compensation/paye-centre-pay/mise-a-jour-phenix-phoenix-updates-eng.html
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2016, 13:06:14 »
PSPC has quietly set up a web page to provide updateson addressing pay issues.  It's at: http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/remuneration-compensation/paye-centre-pay/mise-a-jour-phenix-phoenix-updates-eng.html


Yay!  Success!  PSPC AND SSC on the issue!   Green square on a status dashboard!  Huzzah!!!

What we've heardWhat we've doneProgress made
Performance issues in some departments to authorize large number of transactions in Phoenix.      
PSPC and Shared Services Canada are reviewing to fix urgently.
Resolved.



   ::)

Offline blackberet17

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2016, 13:35:52 »
Jesus help us. Shared Services? Almost as dysfunctional and poorly initiated as...well, PSPC.
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Offline marinemech

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2016, 12:25:59 »
Spoke to my Friend in Miramichi, and he says some Manager have just walked out(never to return) and dumped it onto their subordinates. Internally they are trying to see if they can start trying to migrate small groups at a time to the old system without approval from higher up as they see it as a more productive use of their time. Says every Third file he comes across is screwed up; and one in 20 are so bad no one wants to touch them (being the employee owes the government thousands in over payments or people are owed thousands in payments)   

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2016, 11:10:54 »
OK!  Let's "PASS THE BUCK":

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Quote
Lack of training, not Phoenix, responsible for pay issues, tribunal hears
Ashley Burke · CBC News 

Union accuses senior official of 'blaming everybody else, except the pay system itself'

A senior official responsible for rolling out the federal government's Phoenix payroll system told a labour tribunal Wednesday the issues that led to pay problems for some 80,000 employees are due to a lack of training, not the software itself.

"As long as people enter [information] wrong, it will be wrong. It could be wrong ten years from now," testified Rosanna Di Paola, the associate assistant deputy minister responsible for the federal government's Phoenix pay system.

"To do it over again, I would have made training absolutely mandatory," she said.

"We underestimated the time it took people to adapt to the new technology. The learning curve just seemed to be much longer that we expected."

Di Paola was testifying at the Public Service Labour Relations Employment Board tribunal hearing concerning the Public Service Alliance of Canada's complaint that the government broke the law by not paying public servants accurately or on time due to the Phoenix pay system fiasco.

Since the new Phoenix payroll system "went live" in February, more than 80,000 public servants have been underpaid, overpaid, or not paid at all.

But Di Paola testified that the Phoenix technology isn't to blame.

"You may have heard 80,000 people are having pay problems. Those are not Phoenix-related issues," testified Di Paola. "What those 80,000 employees had are cases or pay requests for — acting

[pay], overtime, increment requests — at the pay centre that we hadn't gotten to in a timely fashion."  Rosanna Di Paola
Rosanna Di Paola is the associate assistant deputy minister responsible for the federal government's Phoenix pay system
Her department identified two root causes for the issues.

"The information is not being entered into the departmental HR system in a timely way or correct way," said Di Paola. "The second root cause we found is the processing time in Miramichi has been slower than expected."

Di Paola says four satellite pay centres were opened to deal with the backlog of pay requests and ease up the workload at the Miramichi pay centre.

Payroll and HR now linked

Before Phoenix, if human resources staff didn't input data into the system in a timely or accurate matter, it didn't affect employees pay. Di Paola says a separate department would duplicate that work and enter the information into its payroll system for workers to get their pay cheques.

The biggest change with Phoenix is that HR and payroll are now integrated. HR staff must input the data, it flows into Pheonix, and Phoenix pays it out, explained Di Paola.

Di Paola testified that for the past three years she warned HR departments "just how critical their work had now become" and "would bring this point home" at monthly meetings with the HR council.

"Once we're integrated what they do in HR is really crucial because it could mean that employees don't get paid or don't get paid correctly," Di Paola said she told HR staff.

Di Paolo said she didn't have the authority to make training mandatory.

Each deputy head for the 101 departments that transitioned to Phoenix had to decide if the training was mandatory or not. Most opted it wasn't, she said. Compensation advisors were the only staff that had to carry-out instructor-lead training.

The rest could access the Canada School of Public Service and take the web-based training. Di Paola said she also provided some departments with a CD with all the training modules so they could make them available on the department's own servers.

Public servants returning from disability leave had issues

As well, she pointed to a wiki for the government of Canada where they posted dozens of documents such as tips and trick on how to do things for managers, HR staff, and compensation advisors in Phoenix.

Di Paolo said that if she could "do it over again" she would have worked with the deputy minister and her deputy colleagues to make training mandatory for all users.

Di Paolo also said people returning from disability leave had troubles getting the accurate pay because they weren't filling out their timecards properly.

"[In] many cases there was a little education on part of the department to let them know about their gradual return to work. If they can only work a day, they need to put in their time or they don't get paid."

Prior to Phoenix employees would fill out paper timecards to get paid and a compensation advisor would key it into the system, she said. Phoenix moved the process online, but Di Paolo said training is also online and available.

The union that launched the labour complaint was "embarrassed" by "Di Paola's testimony and called parts of it "deplorable."

"It's embarrassing," said Chris Aylward, the national vice-president of the Public Service Alliance of Canada.

"We have the manager responsible for the implementation of a new pay system who is basically blaming everybody else, except the pay system itself."

"80,000 people didn't input their information properly — I find that very hard to believe," he said. "And there is no problem with the pay system — I find that extremely hard to believe."

"She even went as far as to blame people coming back from disability," added Aylward."That's unconscionable. How can you blame the victims because they're not getting paid. That is totally unacceptable. She is failing to acknowledge any of the issues."

Claims process to compensate workers for out-of-pocket expenses

The Treasury Board Secretariat is launching a claims process sometime this week to reimburse public servants for out-of-pocket expenses incurred because of the Phoenix problems, the tribunal also heard Wednesday.

"A claimant can complete their claim by going to the web site, filling out the form...including receipts that should be attached to rationalize or explain the expenses they have occurred," said Renée Lafontaine, who is in charge of setting up the office.

"We have set up an operational claims officer in each department to guide them through and help them complete the claim."

LaFontaine testified that the main priority is to make sure workers across the federal government are all treated equally and reimbursed in the same way,

For most straight-forward claims under $500, workers will be paid out immediately by an operational claims officer in each department.

More complicated claims will be sent to the Treasury Board Secretariat's claims office and may take longer for reimbursement.

Out-of-pocket expenses include interest that accumulated on credit cards, loans, or lines of credit because workers weren't getting paid properly, as well as any interest paid because employees had to withdraw investments.

LaFontaine said the government at this point will not be reimbursing people for items they can't prove with a receipt. For example, if a child couldn't attend summer camp, or a worker missed out on an investment opportunity because of the Phoenix pay problems.

Closing arguments will be delivered Thursday in front of the Public Service Labour Relations Employment Board. It could take the board three months or more to make its decision.


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Offline Lumber

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2016, 11:33:08 »
OK!  Let's "PASS THE BUCK":

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"She even went as far as to blame people coming back from disability," added Aylward."That's unconscionable. How can you blame the victims because they're not getting paid. That is totally unacceptable. She is failing to acknowledge any of the issues."

FFS, just because you're disabled doesn't mean you are incapable of making mistakes.

In the reserve world, if someone didn't get paid because they didn't fill out a pay sheet, that's not the problem of the pay office, the pay mangers, or the pay system (RPSR); the problem is with the member not filling out their damn pay sheet!

Now, I do agree that the AADM is passing the buck on way too much. If we never bothered to even tell our newest recruits that to get paid they need to fill out a pay sheet, than that's a problem with leadership and the chain of command; but, it's still not a problem with the pay system itself. However, if you're going to be instituting a brand new pay system, that the people in charge of that pay system really REALLY need to drive home the teaching points.

Sadly, it sounds like this Chris Aylward won't be happy with any finding of the tribunal unless it results in heads rolling, and I feel the public mob is the same way.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2016, 12:05:20 »
As a user of the system, I have the following observations:

1.  Information is not presented in ways that is usable.  For example, most public servants are paid annual rates of pay.  The pay statements from Phoenix do not show that information; rather, they show bi-weekly rates, which must be multiplied by 26.088 to figure out the annual rate.

2.  Year to date information only appears on the most recent pay statement.  Should you choose to access a historical pay statement, YTD information is not shown.  It is odd that pay statements show different information depending on when you access them.

3.  There is no explanation of transactions on your pay.  One would think that a new pay rate, or the cessation or commencement of an allowance would warrant a mention or explanation on the pay statement, but there is nothing shown.  The only solution is to call a pay advisors somewhere in New Brunswick, but since they do not answer calls but instead call back based on some system of triage, you're pretty much out of luck if you need an explanation of something on your pay.

4.  Pay calculations are incorrect.  A few examples: I have seen people paying into the wrong pension accounts; people having double pension payments charged on current service; people having acting pay rates miscalculated - even to the point of being paid rates of pay that don't exist; and people having pension contributions withheld from a retroactive payment, but then not having that retroactive payment paid out.

5.  The training materials showed a different system configuration from the live system.  This has been corrected somewhat, but it was initially quite disconcerting to have key links from the training materials not existing in the production system.


Any system is not merely software - it's people, processes, information and systems coming together to deliver an effect.  It's clear that PSPC had a narrow focus on computer systems, and did not give a great deal of attention to other areas of the federal payroll system.  Data integrity is always an issue in migrating between computer systems; again, from the public testimony, it does not appear that any particular attention or effort was made to clean up the data before going live.
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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2016, 14:44:47 »
From many years ago, one of our seaman had fiscal issues when he mentioned that $600 every 2 weeks was not enough, we said "you should be getting $960 every 2 weeks". Digging through the codes we realized he was getting dinged for both BC and Quebec tax at the same time, for over a year. When we complained to compensation they tried berating him for showing us his paystub. He finally got a big payback, but seriously not doing their job and getting mad when people complain. I see that attitude still runs through them to the top.
I hope these people that get screwed on pay and get reimbursed over the next calendar year demand amended T4's.

Offline NSDreamer

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2016, 16:53:01 »
I have zero faith these days when it comes to it, I'm now responsible for over a hundred civilians and have been dealing with it for months and 99% of time the only thing I can tell them is to pray.

With the start of GWCC starting, I'm actually counselling people not to make pay deductions because the best phoenix people can tell us is they think they can have it working for charity deductions in December, maaaybe January.

This has been a pretty demoralizing thing :(
Something relatively witty.

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2016, 17:45:39 »
Very weak showing by senior PS leadership... :not-again:

Maybe one day EX-04/EX-05s will accept some responsibility...this is a poor showing indeed.  Perhaps is EX-level public servants had PMA's that could actually result in negative bonuses (aka 'penalties'), they would accept greater responsibility in return for their $150K+ salaries?

G2G

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2016, 21:18:49 »
Very weak showing by senior PS leadership... :not-again:

Maybe one day EX-04/EX-05s will accept some responsibility...this is a poor showing indeed.  Perhaps is EX-level public servants had PMA's that could actually result in negative bonuses (aka 'penalties'), they would accept greater responsibility in return for their $150K+ salaries?

G2G

I can see a form letter that PS staff might use to deluge their MPs and MLAs... but hey, that's just me....
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2016, 10:34:35 »
Very weak showing by senior PS leadership... :not-again:

Maybe one day EX-04/EX-05s will accept some responsibility...this is a poor showing indeed.  Perhaps is EX-level public servants had PMA's that could actually result in negative bonuses (aka 'penalties'), they would accept greater responsibility in return for their $150K+ salaries?

G2G

Not really seeing any leadership on the issue, panic running around in circles and finger pointing

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2016, 11:17:05 »
Not really seeing any leadership on the issue, panic running around in circles and finger pointing

I don't know who didn't get the training, but I can tell you that the training (PS' own online training) that I took as a military manager of server public servants and that the PS employees themselves undertook, appeared more than sufficient for them to be capable of keeping an eye on their pay...if they actually were payed.  There is an issue here more of the responsible organizations (PWGSC/PSPC) appearing to not have properly planned, tested and implemented the roll-out and integration of Phoenix into the PS HR/pay system.  For some very senior leaders to say "it was HR operators' faults for not inputting things in correctly" shows a complete lack of accountability by leadership, even at this late date well into a very problematic implementation, for the problems.  I bet you there would be more demonstrable action if may of these EX-level leaders' own pay was being impacted the way the rank and file has been.

:not-again:

G2G

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2016, 11:51:52 »
I hope those responsible (at all levels) are held accountable for the botched implementation and fired.  The incentive not to do sub-par should be that you get to keep your job.  Bonuses should be kept for the ourstanding and above/beyond kind of work. 

Offline CountDC

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2016, 15:29:56 »
lol - more likely promoted and given bonuses. 
"When the power of love, overcomes the love of power....the world will know peace" - Jimi Hendrix [1942-1970]

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2016, 15:46:10 »
I hope those responsible (at all levels) are held accountable for the botched implementation and fired.  The incentive not to do sub-par should be that you get to keep your job.  Bonuses should be kept for the ourstanding and above/beyond kind of work.

I imagine their bonus' for getting the number of subordinates contributing to the Unite Way is greatly affected, as well.
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Offline CTD

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2016, 01:16:19 »



In the reserve world, if someone didn't get paid because they didn't fill out a pay sheet, that's not the problem of the pay office, the pay mangers, or the pay system (RPSR); the problem is with the member not filling out their damn pay sheet!

In the Reserve world it was not unheard of to not be paid for six months when you first joined up. Lots of excuses but little action. It was also not un common to go on a Class B contract and be paid incorrectly or not for a few pay periods. The same for a Class C Reservist. The system always fell back on to the "it is up to the individual Soldier to ensure their pay s correct".  fair enough. I remember argueing with the Orderly room, I had a Soldier not paid for 2 months, they blamed him for the lack of pay. Turns out a Clerk messed up the paper work. Yet it was the Soldiers fault.

This is how they have always done things. If a Clerk messes up very little to nothing is done to discipline the person. Yet it is the individual who suffers the mess up.

To be honest if you have Soldiers not signing a pay sheet who are in attendance it tells me that your not doing doing Roll call at the start of training. I always made sure my Troops signed the pay sheet. I also made sure I dealt with pay issues quickly and always went to the IC and demanded immediate results.

I have to think the new pay system for the public service is having issues with more then the individual is not doing it correctly. The truth will be some where between blame the individual for the problem and blame the Supervisor. With little to no blame on the program itself.








Offline Lightguns

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2016, 06:50:21 »
"To do it over again, I would have made training absolutely mandatory," she said.

So they took surplus employees from another government software boondoggle, The Firearms Program, AND put them to work in the new pay system AND didn't think they needed mandatory training in one of the most illiterate areas of Atlantic Canada. 
Done, 34 years, 43 days complete, got's me damn pension!

Offline MCG

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2016, 07:52:53 »
Looks like government is winning the image game with this.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-meeting-constituency-office-1.3766790

At least, this time they did.

Offline gryphonv

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2016, 09:13:43 »
Good on the PM. But he still made sure to get some photos.

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #45 on: September 19, 2016, 11:08:46 »
I have to think the new pay system for the public service is having issues with more then the individual is not doing it correctly. The truth will be some where between blame the individual for the problem and blame the Supervisor. With little to no blame on the program itself.

The website is not user-friendly. It is user-belligerent. It must have cost a lot more money to design something that hideous.

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #46 on: September 19, 2016, 11:09:30 »
Good on the PM. But he still made sure to get some photos.

Priorities...

Offline NSDreamer

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #47 on: September 19, 2016, 14:39:17 »
I don't know who didn't get the training, but I can tell you that the training (PS' own online training) that I took as a military manager of server public servants and that the PS employees themselves undertook, appeared more than sufficient for them to be capable of keeping an eye on their pay...if they actually were payed.

I have to think the new pay system for the public service is having issues with more then the individual is not doing it correctly. The truth will be some where between blame the individual for the problem and blame the Supervisor. With little to no blame on the program itself.


Right so, as a military manager, and keep in mind I am accountable for over a hundred civilians, I was in NO way adequately trained.

If you had 9-5 Civilian employees with no special things on their file you might be lucky. I had people returning from sick leave who just never got added to phoenix, and so were never paid. I had people who were on variable shifts whose entire schedule kept getting reverted to 1 hour a week no matter how many times we changed it back. I had no ability to enter into Phoenix and had to do everything through pay compensation enquiry system whose online documented processes are far from complete which leads to multiple submissions for the same file. I, and my staff, spent literal days as in periods collected equalling greater then 48 hours on the phone with their people, the pay office, the enquiry people, phoenix and eventually the treasury board.

Please do not deflect this on management, or on the civilians. Yes, some people could probably have done better, but this was an extremely poorly executed move. When the pay centre begged the government to stop transferring files 4 months after launch, the department ignored it and transferred 80 000 more. My team has been furious because they have being told there is nothing they can do and its a waiting game as we have members who are simply not being paid. It also doesn't help that when we issue the Emergency pays, we are being told they will all be deducted off the first normal pay rather then being spread out. So if 3 months of emergency pay comes off your first pay all at once you get paid an amazing 0$ again as the back pay will apparently be coming separately.

Don't get me starting on leave with income averaging folks being screwed over with clawbacks...

Right...getting worked up /end rant
Something relatively witty.

Offline Ostrozac

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2016, 16:27:04 »
Not to mention the hash that Phoenix has done on MATA/PATA benefits. Not only is messing with new parents wholly loathsome, but screwing with people's pay and benefits based on their family status is probably in violation of the Canadian Human Rights Act.


Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #49 on: September 19, 2016, 17:42:37 »
Right so, as a military manager, and keep in mind I am accountable for over a hundred civilians, I was in NO way adequately trained.

If you had 9-5 Civilian employees with no special things on their file you might be lucky. I had people returning from sick leave who just never got added to phoenix, and so were never paid. I had people who were on variable shifts whose entire schedule kept getting reverted to 1 hour a week no matter how many times we changed it back. I had no ability to enter into Phoenix and had to do everything through pay compensation enquiry system whose online documented processes are far from complete which leads to multiple submissions for the same file. I, and my staff, spent literal days as in periods collected equalling greater then 48 hours on the phone with their people, the pay office, the enquiry people, phoenix and eventually the treasury board.

Please do not deflect this on management, or on the civilians. Yes, some people could probably have done better, but this was an extremely poorly executed move. When the pay centre begged the government to stop transferring files 4 months after launch, the department ignored it and transferred 80 000 more. My team has been furious because they have being told there is nothing they can do and its a waiting game as we have members who are simply not being paid. It also doesn't help that when we issue the Emergency pays, we are being told they will all be deducted off the first normal pay rather then being spread out. So if 3 months of emergency pay comes off your first pay all at once you get paid an amazing 0$ again as the back pay will apparently be coming separately.

Don't get me starting on leave with income averaging folks being screwed over with clawbacks...

Right...getting worked up /end rant

NSDreamer, I had a small number of PS civilians with established career streams and no exceptional elements to their pay situation, so I think that my training (yes, it was not anywhere near the most comprehensive on-line training I've ever taken) was sufficient to understand the transition overall and more importantly to have a rapport with my civilian team members.  That said, the fact that I and every other military manager had no direct visibility to our civilian subordinates' specifics because we did not have a PRI, and thus not electronically 'engagable' in the case of any Phoenix system is but one of the overall issues with the roll-out.

I find it deplorable that executives are trying to portray mis-management on the part of users, managers and HR operators, while the executives, "upon reflection" might have considered (more involved) training as mandatory...  ::)  Jeez, ya think???  :not-again:

I also find it strange that the executives say it's only a training challenge, yet in the next breath, note how the Phoenix will need $50M at least, to fix the system.  Those two positions are pretty much diametrically opposed, IMO.

I hope that the Public Service Labour Relations Board tribunal was not as far as the senior PSPC leadership is going to be "held to account"...

:2c:

Regards,

G2G

Offline NSDreamer

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #50 on: September 19, 2016, 22:20:23 »
I wonder if anyone has said "Yes this was a good idea" ... ???
Something relatively witty.

Offline Lightguns

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #51 on: September 20, 2016, 06:42:55 »
I wonder if anyone has said "Yes this was a good idea" ... ???

I worked on AITIS Project from 1995 to 2000, 1993 to 1999 was building a working prototype in stages adding the first users in 1997.  1999 to 2008 was building the system as a functional model that reflected the organization of army training and could be multi platform.  Even now it is not perfect BUT it just moved to ACIMS (SharePoint) from Documentum as I retired so it did fit as a multi function platform.  Talking with the AITIS folks, the move was very smooth and the Army National Calendar is finally part of AITIS (which was planned in 1994).  But that gives you an idea how long it should take to make a successful custom application on an enterprise scale integrate smoothly.  One thing we did do was reams of user training, much of it in user location and face to face for the initial training. Training should always be a lot of hand holding.  Now if they would only build the infrastructure to serve every training video from a central location, we could say mission accomplished. 
Done, 34 years, 43 days complete, got's me damn pension!

Offline Lumber

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #52 on: September 20, 2016, 08:15:47 »
I worked on AITIS Project from 1995 to 2000, 1993 to 1999 was building a working prototype in stages adding the first users in 1997.  1999 to 2008 was building the system as a functional model that reflected the organization of army training and could be multi platform.  Even now it is not perfect BUT it just moved to ACIMS (SharePoint) from Documentum as I retired so it did fit as a multi function platform.  Talking with the AITIS folks, the move was very smooth and the Army National Calendar is finally part of AITIS (which was planned in 1994).  But that gives you an idea how long it should take to make a successful custom application on an enterprise scale integrate smoothly.  One thing we did do was reams of user training, much of it in user location and face to face for the initial training. Training should always be a lot of hand holding.  Now if they would only build the infrastructure to serve every training video from a central location, we could say mission accomplished.

ACIMS.... I shudder every time a link takes me to that..."thing". It's even less user friendly that the new standardized web pages for the rest of the military (such as the new Defence Team and RCN home pages).I could write a whole page of complaints about ACIMS, but I don't want to hijack this thread.
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #53 on: September 20, 2016, 11:22:39 »
Uh-oh...   "Houston?  We have a problem!"

"Phoenix Down..."
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Quote
Phoenix pay system down across federal public service
Public Service and Procurement Canada investigating cause of outage, spokesperson says
CBC News Posted: Sep 20, 2016 9:36 AM ET Last Updated: Sep 20, 2016 10:00 AM ET

The troubled Phoenix pay system is down in all federal government departments, CBC News has learned.

Public Service and Procurement Canada spokesperson Nicolas Boucher said the department is investigating why the pay system is down. It's unclear if this was a planned outage or a technical problem.


In late July, the department said it had ended the practice of turning off the ability of employees to view their pay stubs in Phoenix a week before pay day.


The centralized payroll system was launched across the public service in April.

Public service unions warned the federal government not to go ahead with the full launch of the system and that it wouldn't be reliable.

In June, the government admitted 80,000 people had experienced some pay problems, including being underpaid, overpaid or not paid at all.

On Monday, Public Services and Procurement Minister Judy Foote was before a meeting of the government operations and estimates committee investigating problems with Phoenix.

She said the backlog had been reduced to 67,500 and it would be eliminated by Oct. 31.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #54 on: September 20, 2016, 11:27:37 »
Public Service and Procurement Canada investigating cause of outage, spokesperson says
Perhaps someone brought in an outside contractor...... www.dyingwithdignity.ca   ;)
I even read works I disagree with;  life outside  an ideological echo chamber.

Offline Occam

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #55 on: September 20, 2016, 13:28:03 »
The website is not user-friendly. It is user-belligerent. It must have cost a lot more money to design something that hideous.

If that holds true, then I'm sure I'd be gobsmacked at how much DRMIS must have cost us.

Offline Lightguns

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #56 on: September 20, 2016, 14:13:07 »
If that holds true, then I'm sure I'd be gobsmacked at how much DRMIS must have cost us.

Neither are websites, they are content management systems designed to serve documents not propaganda.  There is simple user paced training for both which should be mandatory but again isn't, so some folks have issues doing their jobs in ACIMS/DRMIS. 
Done, 34 years, 43 days complete, got's me damn pension!

Online Colin P

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #57 on: September 20, 2016, 16:48:52 »
Websites became a real pain to deal with. It’s almost impossible to change things in a timely manner and getting everything translated costs huge amounts of time and money. Funny yesterday, looking at a 125 page document with almost no maps, apparently all the title blocks need to be translated, even when the maps are submitted by an outside proponent, so it’s easier not to have maps to get the document posted, except that maps really help the end users who on this coast don’t give a crap about the French. I spend a great deal of time trying to help clients find stuff on our website. Many of our pages are just endless loops. The only good thing they did was to make them google friendly.

Offline MCG

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2016, 18:45:19 »
It is surprising that there has only been one lawsuit launched so far.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/phoenix-lawsuit-ottawa-darrel-delisle-1.3766028


Offline dapaterson

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #59 on: September 22, 2016, 08:59:18 »
CBC is reporting that, given two independent reviews of Phoenix prior to go-live, the staff at PSPC decided to give the minister the rosier one. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/minister-not-briefed-on-independent-phoenix-analysis-1.3773148

In reading the CBC story, it appears that at go live the system had never been tested end-to-end; there was no detailed test plan; and there was no fallback plan if rollout didn't work.

Anyone with project management experience feel free to chime in, but that does not sound like anything that respected PMBOK.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #60 on: September 22, 2016, 09:06:45 »
CBC is reporting that, given two independent reviews of Phoenix prior to go-live, the staff at PSPC decided to give the minister the rosier one. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/minister-not-briefed-on-independent-phoenix-analysis-1.3773148

In reading the CBC story, it appears that at go live the system had never been tested end-to-end; there was no detailed test plan; and there was no fallback plan if rollout didn't work.

Anyone with project management experience feel free to chime in, but that does not sound like anything that respected PMBOK.

Sadly, this is pretty standard for big IT projects from what I've seen.

Only yesterday, in fact, I was having coffee with one of the 'little people' in a giant systems project going on right now, that we have been involved in from the periphery. She was brought in to act as the 'voice from the field' but has been steamrolled by all the suits with the letters after their names. The Project Manager, of course, has tight timelines to meet so is ignoring pretty much anything, like what the field and clients actually need, because it interferes with the 'milestone deliverables' (there's a free buzzword for you).

She is convinced it will be a train crash when, and if, it gets launched. Price tag? 10s of millions of $ of course.

If they had only hired us :) https://www.berlineaton.com/blog/how-to-lead-great-big-it-projects-4-tips-for-project-champions-
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Offline Lightguns

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #61 on: September 22, 2016, 11:49:08 »
CBC is reporting that, given two independent reviews of Phoenix prior to go-live, the staff at PSPC decided to give the minister the rosier one. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/minister-not-briefed-on-independent-phoenix-analysis-1.3773148

In reading the CBC story, it appears that at go live the system had never been tested end-to-end; there was no detailed test plan; and there was no fallback plan if rollout didn't work.

Anyone with project management experience feel free to chime in, but that does not sound like anything that respected PMBOK.

Funny, we cant get a thing past the departmental RFC committee without a back out plan in place. 
Done, 34 years, 43 days complete, got's me damn pension!

Offline c_canuk

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #62 on: September 22, 2016, 12:23:02 »
yeah, cause you're a little person who can only see the little details, those in the ivory towers can see everything so they don't need to follow the rules. bigger view is always better, never mind the loss of detail, they can see everything![/sarcasm]

also, this seems about right with the finger pointing.

http://dilbert.com/strip/2013-09-20





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-John Stewart Mill

Online Colin P

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #63 on: September 23, 2016, 15:37:14 »
So my Manager just advised me that no one is getting their acting pay, because if they add your acting pay for say a 1 week period, your pay will completely stop once that 1 week period ends. The local compensation clerks are keeping records they will input when Phoenix is fixed..........

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2016, 15:47:39 »
Thus far, my experiences with Acting Pay have been different.  I have seen:

1. Retro acting pay put on a separate payment, where pension contributions were deducted, but the retro pay not paid out.

2. Acting pay at the base rate of the higher classification for the acting period, which is less than the substantive rate of pay.  Or, in other words, do the job of the boss and take a pay cut.

3. Acting pay at a higher rate of pay that does not exist anywhere on the pay table, because they are applying the 4% rule instead of the "next higher incentive with a minimum increase" rule.


Of course, pay statements don't show your annual rate of pay, so if you're not conversant with the conversion factor from biweekly to annual, you may not notice that your pay rate is wrong.

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2017, 16:22:50 »
Meanwhile, to play on the old saying, technical briefings will continue until morale improves ...
Quote
Members of the media are invited to a technical briefing on the latest steps taken to address issues with the Phoenix pay system.

Date: February 8, 2017

Time: 11 a.m. (EST)

Location: National Press Theatre
150 Wellington Street
Ottawa, Ontario

Senior officials will deliver remarks and answer questions from the media ...
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #66 on: February 07, 2017, 16:47:19 »
So how, exactly, does someone get a one-time payment in error of $662,777?  Are there no reviews in the system?  Did no one look at that number and say "Hey, maybe there's something wrong here - let's investigate before we click OK?"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/phoenix-overpayments-ottawa-70-million-1.3969455
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Offline Remius

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #67 on: February 08, 2017, 09:29:34 »
I love how they are saying to just hold onto it for now.

It affects taxes just a bit I would think...

On the flip side you could just let it sit and gain interest I guess.

What a fiasco.
Optio

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #68 on: February 08, 2017, 09:53:31 »
So how, exactly, does someone get a one-time payment in error of $662,777?  Are there no reviews in the system?  Did no one look at that number and say "Hey, maybe there's something wrong here - let's investigate before we click OK?"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/phoenix-overpayments-ottawa-70-million-1.3969455

The real issue here is: How come FINTRAC didn't automatically clic in and wonder where that money was coming from and started an investigation into the Federal government for money laundering?  ;D

Offline tree hugger

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2017, 14:38:54 »
I've had a host of personal issues with phoenix/pay centre.  MY current problem is being paid approx. $400/pay less than I should (since mid Nov).  When you call the pay centre, they are glorified message takers and cannot provide any info.  The "compensation advisors" are mysterious people who know one knows and you just have to believe they'll call you back....eventually.... ::)
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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2017, 14:58:51 »
The "compensation advisors" are mysterious people who know one knows and you just have to believe they'll call you back....eventually.... ::)

Oh, you are assuming they are people... ^-^



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Offline Occam

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2017, 15:13:56 »
I live in Ontario, and work in Quebec.  These are the final pay statements for the 2015 and 2016 years, showing YTD totals.  Phoenix took over in early 2016.  The Phoenix team assures us that Phoenix did not change anything regarding tax deductions at source and that all is well...we beg to differ.


Offline dapaterson

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2017, 18:43:36 »
Overall, the amount looks about the same (roughly $15K in taxes); it's just the apportionment that's different.  And since you put it all on one return, it should be (more or less) a wash.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2017, 19:07:41 »
And now, Phoenix performance and service standards:

http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/remuneration-compensation/paye-centre-pay/mise-a-jour-phenix-phoenix-updates-eng.html

My take on it: They are claiming a capacity of 100K transactions per month.  In January, there were about 77K extra-duty payments processed.  Therefore, there is capacity to reduce the backlog by 23K transactions per month.

There are currently 290K transactions backlogged beyond the service standard date.

Therefore, to clear the current backlog will take 290k / 23K months, or 12 1/2 months - in other words, the current backlog will not be cleared until March, 2018.
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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #74 on: February 08, 2017, 19:19:49 »
Overall, the amount looks about the same (roughly $15K in taxes); it's just the apportionment that's different.  And since you put it all on one return, it should be (more or less) a wash.

That's what we're hoping.  It's the Phoenix team claiming that they didn't touch deductions of taxes that has us shaking our heads.  Someone broke something in the transition...

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #75 on: February 08, 2017, 19:37:59 »
That's what we're hoping.  It's the Phoenix team claiming that they didn't touch deductions of taxes that has us shaking our heads.  Someone broke something in the transition...

Or, possibly, fixed it - unless you were filing two returns in the past, you don't know - maybe they were getting the amounts wrong between Fed and Quebec in the past.
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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #76 on: February 08, 2017, 22:18:10 »
Or, possibly, fixed it - unless you were filing two returns in the past, you don't know - maybe they were getting the amounts wrong between Fed and Quebec in the past.

Nope, we verified the 2015 figures against our returns - Fed tax should be slightly higher than QC tax.  We also verified it against some friends working for other Fed gov't departments in QC.  The Phoenix numbers are wrong.  It appears to be unique to those of us living in ON but working in QC.  Something got programmed incorrectly.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #77 on: February 08, 2017, 22:31:09 »
Nope, we verified the 2015 figures against our returns - Fed tax should be slightly higher than QC tax.  We also verified it against some friends working for other Fed gov't departments in QC.  The Phoenix numbers are wrong.  It appears to be unique to those of us living in ON but working in QC.  Something got programmed incorrectly.

Phoenix make a mistake?  That's unpossible.

That's like telling me that during an acting assignment, I should have been paid at a rate of pay from the collective agreement, and not a rate that someone in Miramichi made up.
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