Author Topic: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation  (Read 16410 times)

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Offline Colin P

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Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #75 on: October 27, 2016, 14:39:25 »
My friend teaches shop, he gets about $20 a year per student for supplies.

Offline Lightguns

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Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #76 on: October 27, 2016, 14:49:37 »
My wife teaches elementary, we spent $1K, mostly materials that parents should supply.  It only takes 2 or 3 parents to refuse to supply and demand the government supply to screw a class out of fun activity.  So she covers that, there is no use in reasoning with parents who think education should be 100% free.  There is no budget for snot rags in an elementary school, incredibly, so that runs $60 bucks a year with all those runny noses.  We also supply recess snacks for a few and this year a Barbie bicycle for a young lady who never had a bicycle in her 6 years of life.  There is no extra room in the supply budgets, when I was in, I used grab any PPS thrown out at the end of course if I happened across it.  When we lived in Oromocto in a McMansion, we had a PPS room, anything we got went there, free pens from politicians or business, pencils found or on sale at end of school year. Can't do that with the little house now.
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #77 on: October 27, 2016, 15:16:45 »
I pass on surplus office supplies as well.

Offline Eaglelord17

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Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #78 on: October 27, 2016, 18:22:16 »
Its easy to say there is jobs in the trades. That being said look at how difficult it is to get qualified in those trades. You can't pay to go to school for it, and you have to fight for a apprenticeship which if you don't have a family member doing that trade (or other similar connections) odds are you will likely never get. Right now I am attending college and the people in my class (all 40 of us) want a apprenticeship, but since none of us have the connections needed to get one, odds are we are screwed in the future.

Companies don't want to hire apprentices as they are seen as a large cost, and once someone is qualified they can go elsewhere. Most the companies hiring apprentices want people who are basically qualified in the trade already just without the ticket so they can pay them less to do the same job as a qualified person.

Yes the jobs are there, but even if you want to do it, they refuse to train you and unlike the military, they want you pre-trained and don't provide you a way to do so.

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #79 on: October 27, 2016, 18:59:52 »
>The jobs for the average kid who just wants a middle class life with a pension at the end are disappearing.

That life pattern was an aberration that existed for a short time between the end of WWII and the start of globalization, and not for everybody.  There was a big lift in living standards over a short time in Canada and the US, and people forgot that for most folks it was normal to start adult life living in a modest amount of floor space with not very many possessions, having to budget the income stream carefully, and maybe having to change jobs every few years (particularly at the outset).
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #80 on: October 28, 2016, 10:25:21 »
Its easy to say there is jobs in the trades. That being said look at how difficult it is to get qualified in those trades. You can't pay to go to school for it, and you have to fight for a apprenticeship which if you don't have a family member doing that trade (or other similar connections) odds are you will likely never get. Right now I am attending college and the people in my class (all 40 of us) want a apprenticeship, but since none of us have the connections needed to get one, odds are we are screwed in the future.

Companies don't want to hire apprentices as they are seen as a large cost, and once someone is qualified they can go elsewhere. Most the companies hiring apprentices want people who are basically qualified in the trade already just without the ticket so they can pay them less to do the same job as a qualified person.

Yes the jobs are there, but even if you want to do it, they refuse to train you and unlike the military, they want you pre-trained and don't provide you a way to do so.

Yes companies nowadays have a blind side to training and skillsets. Reviewing the big LNG projects here, I ask "So where are you going to get the tug crews from?" Blank look, they don't even realize how long it takes to get a skill certification, for big tug master your looking at 10 years on the water and writing exams

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #81 on: October 28, 2016, 10:34:48 »
My wife teaches elementary, we spent $1K, mostly materials that parents should supply.  It only takes 2 or 3 parents to refuse to supply and demand the government supply to screw a class out of fun activity.  So she covers that, there is no use in reasoning with parents who think education should be 100% free.  There is no budget for snot rags in an elementary school, incredibly, so that runs $60 bucks a year with all those runny noses.  We also supply recess snacks for a few and this year a Barbie bicycle for a young lady who never had a bicycle in her 6 years of life.  There is no extra room in the supply budgets, when I was in, I used grab any PPS thrown out at the end of course if I happened across it.  When we lived in Oromocto in a McMansion, we had a PPS room, anything we got went there, free pens from politicians or business, pencils found or on sale at end of school year. Can't do that with the little house now.

My wife is a teacher as well and my experience is similar.  She teaches at an "inner city" school in Halifax that has loads and loads of socio-economic issues.  I would love to be able to claim the amount I put into the students in that school on my taxes.  But my wife loves it, gotta hand it to her I couldn't do it.
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Offline Pusser

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Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #82 on: October 28, 2016, 12:15:04 »
This was my experience as well (Kingston, Ont) in the 90s.  And it was perpetuated by my parents.  The look on their faces when I came home with CAF Recruiting documents was priceless.  Their questions were disturbing, "Why do you want to throw your life away ?", "Why do you want to be a drunken wife beater?" and "What did we do wrong as your parents ?" lol

I have to say they have changed their tunes ALLOT but they still hold some of incorrect and unfounded stereotypes about us.

But you're a rugby player, so your parents weren't completely wrong... ;D
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Offline Pusser

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Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #83 on: October 28, 2016, 12:28:25 »
Part of the problem I see here is that we as a society don't understand or have forgotten what universities are supposed to do.  There is a difference between training and education.  When we train people, we teach them how to do a task (or multiple tasks) as a means to an end.  Education is much more nebulous in that we don't actually teach tasks, but rather thought processes as to how to figure things out.  In a sense, a university is supposed to develop a person's ability to think and reason.

Unfortunately, universities themselves have forgotten this and have in many cases turned themselves into job training centres.  Even more unfortunately, society as a whole has bought into this and nowadays it seems that one needs a "degree" to do just about anything.  This was very apparent during a recent overseas posting.  My wife is a lab technologist with a college diploma and over 30 years of experience.  She was lucky to get licensed overseas because the entry level standard there was a master's degree.  However, although her colleagues were very knowledgeable and could describe chemical/biological processes in detail, they had difficulty initially figuring out their instruments and had no idea what they were looking at in the microscope.  She ended up training people with far more education than she had, in the basic skills they needed to actually be effective.

The other day I heard of someone getting a master's degree in photo refinishing?!  Seriously?  Talk about over-specialization, not to mention the fact that this is a skill, not a thought process.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 12:48:27 by Pusser »
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Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #84 on: October 28, 2016, 12:41:10 »
... My wife is a lab technologist with a college diploma and over 30 years of experience.  She was lucky to get licensed overseas because the entry level standard there was a master's degree.  However, although her colleagues were very knowledgeable and could describe chemical/biological processes in detail, they had difficulty initially figuring out their instruments and had no idea what they were looking at in the microscope.  She ended up training people with far more education than she had, in the basic skills they needed to actually be effective ...
Excellently put!  In my limited experience working with university-educated vs. community-college-trained journalists, I saw some of the same thing:  the university folks generally knew more about government in general, but the college folks generally knew more about what to look for and report on at a municipal council or school board meeting.

I think this is also why an awful lot of university students end up taking a year or two at college after their degree to get the training they need to ensure the best use of the education they've received.
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Online mariomike

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Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #85 on: October 28, 2016, 16:44:59 »
There are no quality jobs with pensions and benefits, there is no home ownership, there is no vacations, none of the future their parents and grandparents enjoy. The lack of opportunity for the majority is incredible and more incredible how quickly it came about, less than one generation we sold our prosperity. 

Light Guns is right.  The jobs for the average kid who just wants a middle class life with a pension at the end are disappearing. 

The last time I applied for a job was in 1972, so I can't comment on today's market. But, I can say that those on the job now enjoy some benefits that we never had,

Pension accrual rate increased from 2% to 2.33%.

Meal breaks and meal allowance.

Higher car counts.

Paid out-of-service time for stress.

Presumptive PTSD legislation for cumulative stress.

These things may be taken for granted now, but were unheard of during my time on the job.







 
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 16:54:07 by mariomike »
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Offline Jed

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Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #86 on: October 28, 2016, 17:13:34 »
Not to turn this into a ' in my day we walked to school uphill both ways' discussion, things are considerably different with respect to jobs today and jobs now.

Sure there are way less opportunities for middle class folks to get today's expected jobs with all the attached entitlements.  Each decade added more and more expected entitlements to ordinary jobs.

In 1971 I worked on a CN extra gang.  $1.65/hr 54 hrs a week, no overtime 2 - 10 min water breaks / day, free room and board in a box car. Lots of people had work if they wanted it. Tough to get EI unless you were an East Coast fisherman.

The significant other did not generally need to work to feed a family.

In 1977 a Fed Govt Professional job,  2 wk paid vacation, below average wages, no Maternity leave, no overtime, good pension prospects

In 1991 a Sask Govt Professional job, 4 wks paid vacation, fair wages, maybe 2 wks maternity leave, no overtime, drug plan, good pension.

Today, if you have a government job you are golden with all the built in perks. The problem is there are a lot less permanent job opportunities due decreased need for people to physically do the work and / or institutions can not afford to pay the wages.
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Offline ArmyRick

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Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #87 on: December 05, 2016, 12:38:37 »
Interesting point with the mentioned govt jobs (even at different levels) over a period of time.

Our MPP, Jim Wilson (Simcoe County, Ontario) said several years ago that rapidly increasing government employees when the economic growth is not matching (rather gradually shrinking) is completely non-sustainable.

What would happen if government jobs were pro-rated based on what the economies were like at the time? If we lived in a magic fairy world where no unions existed or other non-sense, how would people react if all government employees and yes perhaps even elected officials had their pay pro-rated based on how well the economy is going? Certainly be a lot of pyssed off people. Certain the banks and financial institutions would not accept it either.

Just a thought.
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Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #88 on: December 05, 2016, 13:30:27 »
Just a thought.

Here's another thought.

Let the GTA  go its own way. Take its revenue and municipal union jobs along with it.




« Last Edit: December 05, 2016, 13:48:01 by mariomike »
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