Author Topic: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving  (Read 9242 times)

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Offline JF P

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Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« on: November 09, 2016, 13:07:25 »
Hi everyone

I have been in the airforce for 8 years .its is now my second posting and still the same .no one like to be in the forces and everybody is trying to get out .

I like the canadian forces , the best time i had was on tasking or exercise in wainwright.it seems like everyone i met in wainwright ( infantry or armoured ) loved there job and bever said anything about it being bullshit and couldnt wait to get out .im a firefighter so it could be that airforce love to complain but everubody is looking for civilian job .

So after that long paragraphe of not saying anything i was wondering if there is more pride in the army , more people liking there job and less complaining ( i dont mean complaining about the shitty weather ,the rain or the lack of sleep ) i mean complaining about serving there country or the forces in general .it seems like it was better before people are saying but if i was looking to remaster ...is the army a better fit .

Thanks

Offline MilEME09

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2016, 15:22:43 »
Ill give you my take on it, many I know who are thinking of pulling pin love the army, they love serving their country. What people are annoyed at is bull crap that the CoC does that seems to screw over the troops. I think everywhere you go there will be some sort of frustration with the Forces in general, and some people eventually have enough and pull pin, and I don't think the army is any different in that regard.
"We are called a Battalion, Authorized to be company strength, parade as a platoon, Operating as a section"

Offline mariomike

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2016, 15:29:02 »
no one like to be in the forces and everybody is trying to get out .

And how many are trying to get back in?

Getting Back In/Re-enrolling Mega Thread 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=294.475
36 pages.




Offline JF P

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2016, 15:38:30 »
It seems that in my trade 75 % wants to get out in the first 5 years .maybe 30 %do it a year... is it the same in the army ? Or other trade.its hard to stay motivated when everybody tell you they are trying to get out ... or how its better outside the military .

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2016, 15:44:08 »
....i was wondering if there is more pride in the army ....
Yes.
I even read works I disagree with;  life outside  an ideological echo chamber.

Offline kev994

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2016, 17:41:42 »
Yes.
Could it be that the other elements have more transferable skill sets?

Offline CombatMacgyver

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Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2016, 01:17:49 »
It doesn't help that majority of our equipment is old and outdated, in disrepair, and causes more damage to our health as a result. Having to use broken, old, uncomfortable kit is demoralizing.

It doesn't help that we haven't had a salary increase in many years (cost of living adjustments don't count, I'm talking a real salary increase). Our benefits haven't been reevaluated and adjusted to the massive and rapid changes to the market (like PLD).

We're at the bottom of the totem pole. Everyone wants boosts to education, health care, environment, and rightfully so, but the CF has needs too and they've been neglected for a long, long time. Too long if you ask me.

Yes, some things have improved, but it's not nearly enough.

I have great pride in what I do and I won't quit any time soon... Doesn't mean I don't or can't complain though.

"The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.” ~General James "Mad Dog" Mattis, USMC

Offline Sandyson

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2016, 09:38:27 »
Very few civilians are getting pay increases of any sort.  Getting full time work is the life focus for many and keeping a job is the priority.  If you are getting any form of pay adjustments you are doing very well.  As for status; education is the least appreciated profession, nobody cares about their hospitals, and we're all going to roast if they don't do something about global warming now.  However  I recall being told that as an officer I had to discriminate between 'bitching' and complaining.  The latter was to be taken seriously the former was healthy in the army.  So no. Do not complain, but "b...'all you like.

Offline Spectrum

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2016, 09:43:45 »
and we're all going to roast if they don't do something about global warming now.

 ::)

And I seem to remember MPs and Senators getting a pay increase.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2016, 09:47:40 »
I agree with Sandyson here.

In the Navy, I have found that the level of bitchin' one gets from seamen is usually directly proportional to how competent and trade qualified he/she is: The more they *****, the more competent they are.

And bitchin is a "basic seaman's right"  ;D.

Invertly, if the bitchin stops for any noticeable duration, the officers and captain should watch out: Something bad is about to happen.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2016, 09:50:19 »
I recall being told that as an officer I had to discriminate between 'bitching' and complaining. 
But don't confuse bitching and whining.

I figure it's a complaint if it includes potential solutions ("this organization isn't working; could we shift the following people..."); bitching if there's no solution offered ("this ruck is too heavy"); and whining if it's a non-solvable issue ("yes Bloggins, I know it's raining; thank you for that astute observation.... now STFU").  ;D

/tangent
I even read works I disagree with;  life outside  an ideological echo chamber.

Offline Beadwindow 7

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2016, 10:00:01 »
However  I recall being told that as an officer I had to discriminate between 'bitching' and complaining.  The latter was to be taken seriously the former was healthy in the army.  So no. Do not complain, but "b...'all you like.

Point of contention I have here. As an officer/leader, you must be able to differentiate between the two. Members CAN complain about something, and a leader must be able to alleviate, explain, or assist in that complaint.

For example, if someone complains about how a piece of equipment is junk, you can educate about the UCR process. If someone complains about an unsafe practice or hazardous condition in their workplace, you can should start the DND 663 process. A redress of grievance is by it's very nature, a complaint.

A complaint is "a statement that a situation is unsatisfactory or unacceptable." Ignoring valid complaints, or creating an environment that it's not permissible creates an environment where nothing gets better.
Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline CTD

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2016, 22:57:11 »
I found the Army to be more of a tight group. I found the Airforce to be more of on your own at work and  the second the day was done everyone went home to do their own thing.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2016, 23:59:54 »
I found the Army to be more of a tight group. I found the Airforce to be more of on your own at work and  the second the day was done everyone went home to do their own thing.

The Army equips the man... the Air Force mans the equipment
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2016, 06:08:24 »
I found the Army to be more of a tight group. I found the Airforce to be more of on your own at work and  the second the day was done everyone went home to do their own thing.

I can only speak for myself, but our community doesn't seem to be this way.  Going home after work is partially because we work and life together when not at home and you can't get time away from people in the air, hotel room you share or wherever you sleep.  You ride to from the plane with them, eat with them and hear them on ICS for hours on end.   Time away becomes needed.
The only time you have too much gas is when you're on fire.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2016, 08:00:53 »
OP:

.im a firefighter so it could be that airforce love to complain but everubody is looking for civilian job .

Could it be that firefighters are looking for the same job with a municipal department?

« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 08:35:56 by mariomike »

Offline Trailhawk

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2016, 00:51:05 »
I'm very much a new member of the CF, but I am in the Army and I can honestly say it's very fulfilling. I must qualify my statement by saying I've never served in the RCAF and have no other military experience to compare my Army experience with. What I can say is this: I am enjoying my training and I am proud to be a member. I've never experienced this type of group achievement and solidarity before. Everyone I am training with is extremely proud to serve, and we attribute our group successes to helping each other out and completing tasks as a group. We don't let each other get over-stressed or burnt out because these things lead to jadedness. Personally, I wholeheartedly recommend joining the Army. I hope you're able to resolve your questions.
Dileas Gu Brath

Offline mariomike

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2016, 09:03:05 »
I'm very much a new member of the CF, but I am in the Army and I can honestly say it's very fulfilling.

You are a Reservist? So was I. I joined the RCASC when I was 16, and enjoyed my time. I hope you do too!  :)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 10:02:25 by mariomike »

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2016, 17:38:03 »
With respect to pay and compensation....


Public sector workers paid 10.6% more than private sector average: Fraser Institute

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/fraser-institute-salary-1.3887133

"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline mariomike

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2016, 18:15:55 »
With respect to pay and compensation....


Public sector workers paid 10.6% more than private sector average: Fraser Institute

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/fraser-institute-salary-1.3887133

Offline PandemicStrange

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2017, 23:23:45 »
To be frank, I was in the Infantry before and got out. Mainly because I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do and everyone else was doing the same. And now look at me trying to get back in.

That being said, there's always going to be bad apples or people complaining it's human nature. You just have to find a way to tune it out really... Or try not to be around those people as often. Also I should add, that getting back in was probably the most time consuming, and took even more work than it did the first time. So there's that, I mean you can try to convey that message to others if they're unsure.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2017, 11:27:31 »
Also I should add, that getting back in was probably the most time consuming, and took even more work than it did the first time.

The nice thing is that they re-hire alumni. My employer did not.


Offline TrunkMonkey315

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2017, 14:31:15 »
I was in for 8 years and left in 2013. Since then I got my Journeyman/Red Seal in welding and luckily have maintained employment in the current downturn in AB and have no fear of being laid off. I make more money welding than what I'd ever make in the Army but I gave my notice Monday and look forward to a new career as an Ammo Tech.

To me it boils down to having a career you thoroughly enjoy, though I admit the benefits and pension offered by the military are also a good bonus since fewer companies these days offer those, unless you go a union route. I never thought I'd get back in but the opportunity to do a new trade that interests me won out, and I admittedly miss certain things about the Army.

Offline Ajacied34

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Re: Pride to be in the forces and everybody is leaving
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2017, 00:59:32 »
I'm speaking based on experience and stories of those around me, but in terms of the private sector things are very bleak. Hiring for things such as financial services, engineering, business and IT seem to be almost non-existent, especially for young folk (such as myself). In some cases it might be that the grass isn't all that much greener (literally) on the otherside. Although, from what I've seen if you're looking at going into the trades its a bit easier as most of the people I know have gotten apprenticeships fairly easily after school.

Back to the CAF, in terms of salary the CF is fairly competitive with the private sector both enlisted and officer. It's on a salary, full benefits and a pension which is adjusted for inflation.