Author Topic: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)  (Read 8551 times)

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #100 on: February 24, 2017, 11:53:42 »
Meanwhile, yesterday, in the Ontario Legislature ...* - Liberal MPP, Ottawa-Vanier
** - Ontario Conservative Leader

Will we see a motion against Anti-Semitism and BDS Movement next?  How about that hate against WASPs being espoused by the BLM Movement?  Why do we have such waste of Government time on trivial matters that are already covered in the Criminal Code, and no real legislation being made to help the citizens of the Province?  I would say that with any pay increase that they vote themselves, we are not getting our money's worth from our current elected officials.   [>:(
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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #101 on: March 05, 2017, 09:47:28 »
After the Liberal's voted down the Conservative members motion that was along similar lines, but all inclusive, with no mention of any particular "interest group"; does anyone wonder why we are seeing the divisive protests across the country?
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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #102 on: March 07, 2017, 14:29:05 »
Anyone else see George Orwell's "Animal Farm" coming to a nation near you?

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

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OPINION:Liberals' anti-Islamophobia motion is a politically brilliant, sinister piece of work: Neil Macdonald
M-103 has injected a note of hysteria into the Tory leadership race, exactly as the Liberals no doubt intended
By Neil Macdonald, CBC News Posted: Mar 07, 2017 5:00 AM ET - Last Updated: Mar 07, 2017 9:05 AM ET

To anyone who believes in the unchained expression of ideas, Motion 103 is a sinister piece of work. Pollyanna-sunny, very Canadian, and no doubt brilliant politics, but sinister.

The motion, nominally authored by Liberal backbencher Iqra Khalid, calls on the federal government to condemn "Islamophobia" and all other forms of mean and nasty and racist speech, and, further, to immediately study how to quell hate and fear and generally figure out a way to make Canadians be nicer to each other.

All of which sounds lovely. Captain Kirk ran around the galaxy delivering a similar message to bigoted aliens for years.

But the ability of earthly governments to impose such goals is beyond dubious. Suasion seldom works; society is a stew of prejudice and tribalism, and nobody I know pays the slightest attention to government moralizing.

Even politicians understand that. So, ultimately, there are some, probably including ministers in Justin Trudeau's cabinet, who will be tempted to accomplish M-103's stated goals by once again lowering the dead hand of the state on speech.
It's the Canadian way.

This is not fanciful; Canadians tend to think we enjoy a right to free speech, but we don't. It's one of our national myths, probably attributable to our wholesale gorging on literature, media and films from America, where speech enjoys near-total constitutional protection from suppression by government.

Hate speech laws

In Canada, it's a different story. There is already a remarkable plantation of federal and provincial laws defining and prohibiting offensive speech, and it's a safe bet the proponents of M-103 are eager to plant even more, even if M-103 is just a parliamentary statement.

Further, Canadians tend to support such measures; they either don't realize or don't care that these laws attack free speech; inoffensive speech, after all, doesn't need protecting.

To review: the Criminal Code bans "hate propaganda," which has been defined by the Supreme Court as speech "intended or likely to circulate extreme feelings of opprobrium and enmity against a racial or religious group."

This law is serious: a spokesperson for Stephen Harper's public safety minister suggested in 2015 it could be used against groups advocating boycott, divestment and sanction of Israel for its occupation of the West Bank.

Then there are the provincial Human Rights commissions, quasi-judicial boards, each with their own set of regulations, out to protect fragile Canadians from speech that injures their "dignity, feelings or self-respect." These tribunals have teeth, and the ability to force speech offenders to pay damages to the offended.

Ezra Levant, a conservative provocateur, spent years fighting efforts by Muslim groups that dragged him before the Alberta Human Rights Commission for reprinting controversial Danish cartoons that depicted the prophet Mohammed unflatteringly. These cartoons, not really any worse than Monty Python's lampooning of Jesus Christ in the film Life of Brian, had provoked death and rioting overseas, and were available on the internet.

Levant, editor of the Western Standard at the time, was making a reasonable news judgment, showing people what the uproar was about. Ultimately, the Alberta commission dismissed the complaint, but not before forcing Levant to spend a fortune defending himself.

Defining Islamophobia

At a guess, Khalid and her fellow activists in the Liberal and NDP caucuses would regard those Danish cartoons as Islamophobia, as well as the cartoons that provoked the mass murders at Charlie Hebdo magazine by Muslim fundamentalists in Paris.

In fact, Khalid would almost certainly characterize as Islamophobic any account that dared to describe the Charlie Hebdo murderers as Muslim fundamentalists.

In the Commons, she repeatedly refers to a petition, signed by thousands of Canadians, that demands recognition "that extremist individuals do not represent the religion of Islam, and in condemning all forms of Islamophobia."

So: would any such recognition foreclose a discussion of the imam at a Toronto mosque who recently treated his congregation to remarks about "the filth of the Jews?" Would it be Islamophobic to ask whether a religious leader, sermonizing in a mosque, in any way represents Islam?

So morally certain are Khalid and her backers (certainly including the Prime Minister's Office) that they are refusing any changes or amendments to the wording of M-103, including the rather sensible suggestion that "Islamophobia" be at least defined, say, as discrimination against Muslims, which is already illegal.

That is worrying.

Would Khalid's notion of Islamophobia, for example, prohibit discussion of a question often posed by Israelis and conservatives: Why, if most Muslims are not terrorists, most terrorists appear to be Muslims?

Would Khalid want to suppress any depiction of the prophet Mohammed, which many Sunni Muslims deem offensive?

Would she seek to quell discussion of why Saudi Arabia, a Muslim theocracy and close ally of Canada, recently went much further than Donald Trump, deporting tens of thousands of Pakistanis on the grounds that some might be terrorists?

All those subjects are debatable.

But it is reasonable to ask whether targeting "Islamophobia," rather than discrimination against Muslims, would eventually forbid debate itself.

The political purpose of M-103, though, is plain: to sucker nativist chumps, none of whom intend to ever vote Liberal or NDP, into racist public tirades. In that, Khalid has succeeded admirably.

She herself has been the target of deeply racist attacks from angry voters. Comment sections of news websites have exploded with warnings of Sharia law and Islamofascism and the terrible threat of immigrants and the dilution of our "Judeo-Christian" culture (Vancouver is a city whose population is about 40 per cent Asian, but never mind).

Falling into the trap

M-103 has also injected a note of hysteria, exactly as the Liberals no doubt intended, into the Tory leadership race, making it difficult for the Conservative party to leave behind its foolish and repudiated election proposals to ban niqabs and establish a tip line for "barbaric cultural practices."

The Liberals also bet, successfully, that Conservatives taking issue with the term "Islamophobia" would be portrayed in media coverage as mouth-breathing reactionaries, or at least hypocrites, given their forceful push in the past for a parliamentary denunciation of what their members called "the new anti-Semitism."

The Liberals' logic was obvious: Trumpian conservatives are feeling ascendant and triumphalist nowadays. Why not encourage them?
If it didn't have such serious implications for freedom of expression, it would almost be funny.

This column is part of CBC's Opinion section. For more information about this section, please read this editor's blog and our FAQ.


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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #103 on: March 07, 2017, 16:48:28 »
Anyone else see George Orwell's "Animal Farm" coming to a nation near you?

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.


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An opinion piece and not a very good one IMO.

My default position with CBC has become, "It's a liebral lie until it's independently corroborated elsewhere. They have no trust left".

I even seldom read past the byline. Soon as I see it's from Pravda Canada, I quit reading and move on.

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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #104 on: March 07, 2017, 21:29:09 »
An opinion piece and not a very good one IMO.
...

I agree with recceguy, but for different reasons.

I don't think the Liberals set out to ambush the Conservatives, I believe the original motion, a back-bencher's private member's bill, was, harmlessly, intended as a "feel good" expression of Liberal "good-will" towards Muslims.

Maybe I'm reading too much into  what happened but, it seems to me that too many Conservatives said too much, and when e.g. Erin O'Toole, who is a known moderate, asked for, and the motion's originator agreed to consider, a revision that would solve the emphasis in Islam issue, that the Liberal political tacticians got into the act and saw that it could, indeed, by a nice wedge issue.

But, I suspect the Conservatives built the "trap," themselves, and then too many of them walked into it and only then did the Liberals see that "trap" and spring it on them.

This is, in my opinion, very much a CPC self inflicted wound ... and some CPC leadership candidates were driven towards making it by a fringe of the party that will, mindlessly, do much more harm than good to the Party.
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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #105 on: March 07, 2017, 23:09:02 »
It's only an issue for the Conservatives if they choose to make it one. Keeping silent could let the front runners appear the more palatable choice to the real rank and file. Maintaning the line "we detest hate and prejudice in all its forms" without getting dragged into the islamiphobia quagmire is the best response.
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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #106 on: March 08, 2017, 06:53:13 »
It's only an issue for the Conservatives if they choose to make it one ... Maintaning the line "we detest hate and prejudice in all its forms" without getting dragged into the islamiphobia quagmire is the best response.
Had their chance ...
... This is, in my opinion, very much a CPC self inflicted wound ... and some CPC leadership candidates were driven towards making it by a fringe of the party that will, mindlessly, do much more harm than good to the Party.
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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #107 on: March 08, 2017, 07:05:37 »
...very much a CPC self inflicted wound ... and some CPC leadership candidates were driven towards making it by a fringe of the party that will, mindlessly, do much more harm than good to the Party.
Sadly, I concur.  Catering to the left- & right-extremes of either Party only harms and alienates the sane centrist middle, where the majority of Canadians dwell.

As noted elsewhere, the CPC has two potential leadership candidates who could appeal to a significant percentage of the voters; neither are running.  This leaves those who are too insignificant/unknown to muster a majority, or those who are trolling to the batshyte crazy.
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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #108 on: March 08, 2017, 09:14:14 »
There were very good reasons to oppose M103 and centrists in the party explained those reasons in the house clearly and articulately.  The press ignored those centrists and went straight to twitter to find the angry old men and quote them while framing the Leitch crowd in the centre of their reports. 
Done, 34 years, 43 days complete, got's me damn pension!

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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #109 on: March 08, 2017, 10:17:11 »
Sadly, I concur.  Catering to the left- & right-extremes of either Party only harms and alienates the sane centrist middle, where the majority of Canadians dwell.

As noted elsewhere, the CPC has two potential leadership candidates who could appeal to a significant percentage of the voters; neither are running.  This leaves those who are too insignificant/unknown to muster a majority, or those who are trolling to the batshyte crazy.
      :not-again:

Kathleen win tried it with the provincial PCs who thankfully didn't fall for it.  They voted with it, and it went away.  The CPC should have done the same.  this will make great election fodder the next time around. 
Optio

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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #110 on: March 08, 2017, 10:41:36 »
I'm not that sure. I know lots of folks who self identify on the left side of the spectrum who are opposed to the singular nature of the motion. Besides, this was meant to appeal to a demographic who would probably never vote Liberal anyhow.
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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #111 on: March 08, 2017, 16:15:56 »
Kathleen win tried it with the provincial PCs who thankfully didn't fall for it.  They voted with it, and it went away.  The CPC should have done the same.  this will make great election fodder the next time around.

Is that what we should do? Simply set aside our values because it is going to cause a bit of a stink with a large number (not majority, but a large number) of people?

This is how ridiculous policies get in place, there are too many "yes men" that just nod and agree because they are too nervous to upset anyone. 

Offline recceguy

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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #112 on: March 08, 2017, 17:06:03 »
Kathleen win tried it with the provincial PCs who thankfully didn't fall for it.  They voted with it, and it went away.  The CPC should have done the same.  this will make great election fodder the next time around.

Don't kid yourself. Lots of people in the party are not impressed with Brown's ideas.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 17:08:38 by recceguy »
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Offline Remius

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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #113 on: March 08, 2017, 17:33:29 »
Is that what we should do? Simply set aside our values because it is going to cause a bit of a stink with a large number (not majority, but a large number) of people?

This is how ridiculous policies get in place, there are too many "yes men" that just nod and agree because they are too nervous to upset anyone.

Yep.  Sometimes you have to compromise.  wynn needs a boogeyman right now. Brown needs middle of the road voters on his side.  If he went the route the federal cons did, he'd be playing into that.  He didn't play her game.  This was a non binding motion that will never become law so who cares.  Why take the bait over what are essentially just words.
Optio

Offline recceguy

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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #114 on: March 08, 2017, 17:39:25 »
Yep.  Sometimes you have to compromise.  wynn needs a boogeyman right now. Brown needs middle of the road voters on his side.  If he went the route the federal cons did, he'd be playing into that.  He didn't play her game.  This was a non binding motion that will never become law so who cares. Why take the bait over what are essentially just words.

Don't make any bets you can't cover on that one. Never say never.
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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #115 on: March 08, 2017, 18:02:50 »
Don't make any bets you can't cover on that one. Never say never.

Yup.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 04:12:39 by Jarnhamar »

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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #116 on: March 08, 2017, 18:24:07 »
Brown needs middle of the road voters on his side.

Nope.

Mike Harris did not win elections by trying to out-liberal Liberals. He won them by promising to govern as a Conservative, and keeping those promises.

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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #117 on: March 08, 2017, 19:13:40 »
Nope.

Mike Harris did not win elections by trying to out-liberal Liberals. He won them by promising to govern as a Conservative, and keeping those promises.

Sure, but falling into needless traps don't help.  Social conservatism caters to a small segment and turns off a far larger segment.  I would consider myself a conservative voter but not when the focus is on divisive social conservatism.  If you want me to vote liberal, make Kellie Leitch the leader.  Brown didn't fall for it and I'm ok with that. 
Optio

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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #118 on: March 08, 2017, 19:16:14 »
Don't make any bets you can't cover on that one. Never say never.

If they wanted a law they could have done that instead.  They didn't.  They still score points for doing nothing of real substance. I won't freak out like some are until they actually bring in real legislation to that effect.
Optio

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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #119 on: March 08, 2017, 19:54:49 »
All wedges have very thin leading edges. Be wary of those. The thicker part follows later.

There is no social conservative aspect to this. Pushing for an inclusive motion denouncing all baseless hatred is vastly superior. I would not support a purely-Jewish, purely-Christian, purely-Hindu etcetera motion either, no matter what oppression those faith groups may, now or in the future. True Conservatives believe in equality. Liberals cater to divisive identity politics.

I don't care if Muslim women wear niqabs or burkas in public, as long as it is their choice to do so (and we can never be sure whether it is or is not), but I vehemently disagree with anybody wearing a mask when swearing an oath/making a solemn affirmation, giving testimony in court, or having identity (driver's licence, passport etcetera) photographs taken. Several Muslim countries have policies that outlaw facial coverings, and millions of Muslim women walk about in public with open faces. I have no problem with hijabs, either in general or in uniform, and I have seen at least one female Muslim CF Officer in a black hijab.

I will not be voting for Kellie Leitch as Conservative leader either.
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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #120 on: March 10, 2017, 10:00:49 »
Questions arise from immigrants who fled Islamic tyranny.

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Quote
OPINION:'Useful idiots' line up to support M-103
Tarek Fatah
Tuesday, March 07, 2017, 7:48 PM

The term “useful idiot” has been attributed to the Russian revolutionary Vladimir Lenin, who toppled the czar in October, 1917.

Lenin’s exact word in Russian was “simpleton” to describe people in the West who served his purpose, but were neither truly aware of who was using them, nor the cause they served.

On Sunday, a blatant exhibition of “useful idiots” was on display at Toronto City Hall.

This time, they came not to serve Trotsky’s Fourth International, the Sandinistas or the Viet Cong.

This time they came to serve the cause of Islamofascism.

White youths in bandanas and facemasks roughed up Canadians, including their Muslim Canadian allies, who were protesting Liberal MP Iqra Khalid’s “Islamophobia” motion, M-103.

Among the bullied victims of the supposed anti-racist activists, who included communists and Arab Islamists, were Muslim Canadians who were pushed and kicked, their placards seized and torn, with close-up pictures of them taken by a counter protester.

“We fear our pictures were being taken to be passed on to the Pakistani Consulate in Toronto,” said Imtiaz Baloch, a small business owner who escaped Islamic tyranny three decades ago.

Said another protester named Ahmad: “I escaped Pakistan because of the jihadist threat there to liberal values. I never thought that the (jihadi) mindset I escaped, would chase me to Canada.”

Most media did not report on this bizarre nexus of communists working hand-in-hand with Arab Islamists and white anarchists.

Zaffar Jawaid, from Pakistan-occupied Balochistan said: “I have lived in peace in Canada for the last 20 years. All that changed for me on March 4, 2017 in Toronto when I decided to join the peaceful protest at the Toronto’s City Hall against Motion-103, to stop (it) from becoming a law in Canada.”

Jawaid says he had a placard that read “my fears are not irrational” when “suddenly I felt a shove on my back and was pulled back by a police officer.

“You can’t go in there” the officer said. “But that’s where I belong,” I replied.

Another Baloch protester against M-103 told me in an email: “My worst fears had come true. I was reliving the fearful days of the military-jihadist campaigns on the streets of Pakistan, and this time in Toronto.”

An Iranian who escaped the Islamist Ayatollah regime told Rebel Media:

“I am a political refugee from Iran. I’ve been to prison and I have lived under Islamic law and I know how it starts and I know how it ends. For some reason, it always starts with some unity between the left and Islamists and it scares me. I came here to be free. I chose Canada to live in a free country and I am beginning to feel scared.”

Khalid, who is the sponsor of M-103, has largely avoided the media, other than to say in Parliament that she has received Islamophobic, racist and threatening messages from opponents of M-103.

But where are the voices of Liberal Muslim MPs who know about the tyranny of Islamism, such as federal Immigration Minister Ahmed Hussen and Liberal MP Ali Ehsassi?

Gentlemen, now is the time to show real character and integrity and to stand up against the agenda of the Muslim Brotherhood and Jihadi Islamism.


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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #121 on: March 14, 2017, 10:18:27 »
Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Quote
OPINION:  Editorial:  Canadians like values and dislike M103
Postmedia Network
First posted: Monday, March 13, 2017 08:53 PM EDT | Updated: Monday, March 13, 2017 08:59 PM EDT

Two new public opinion polls underscore the concerns Canadians have about Muslim integration and immigration in Canada.

First of all, Forum Research has found that only 14% of people support M-103, Liberal MP Iqra Khalid’s anti-discrimination motion that singles out Islamophobia.

The majority of respondents instead want the wording changed so that it either doesn’t single out an individual religion, or names all of them. As listing every religion practiced by Canadians would be a maddening exercise, we opt for the first option.

Over the past few months, Liberal politicians and their backers in the media have tried to ram a narrative down Canadians’ throats that this motion is nothing to worry about. They’ve even gone to great lengths to ridicule its critics.

Clearly Canadians don’t care what their betters think. They reject this motion and we don’t blame them. The Liberals should have taken the laurel leaf extended by numerous Conservative MPs and revised its wording.

Meanwhile, a poll by Montreal-based firm CROP shows a full 75% of Canadians support some form of anti-Canadian values screenings for new immigrants to Canada.

The study, commissioned by the French-language division of CBC, doesn’t name Conservative leadership candidate Kellie Leitch, but her social media statements on Monday clearly show she feels vindicated.

As she should. This is another idea the liberal elites have worked overtime trying to tear apart. To us, it’s always been a no-brainer.

While we’d still like to know more about the logistics of it, the basic idea is hardly controversial. As Anthony Furey explained in a recent column, many northern European countries conduct such values screening measures.

The CROP poll also reveals 25% of Canadians support a ban on Muslim immigration. While we don’t support such a ban, this significant percentage highlights a troubling reality within Canadian public opinion.

Canada has a deserved reputation as a country where diversity, tolerance and respect are foundational parts of our way of life.

We risk eroding our culture both by failing to reach those who fear immigration from any group, and by failing to ensure those coming here understand the values of their new home.

Turning a blind or politically correct eye to either serves no one.


More on LINK.


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Offline mariomike

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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #122 on: March 23, 2017, 17:37:44 »
Mar 23, 2017

Motion condemning Islamophobia easily passes in commons
http://www.680news.com/2017/03/23/motion-condemning-islamophobia-easily-passes-commons/

Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #123 on: March 23, 2017, 17:52:51 »
And now they're going to waste time and money on a committee thing to study the matter.   ::)

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)
« Reply #124 on: March 23, 2017, 18:19:37 »
With recommendations, compensation, blame casting and population re-education programs already pre-determined.