Author Topic: The Khadr Thread  (Read 460102 times)

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Offline Hatchet Man

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The Khadr Thread
« on: March 04, 2004, 07:10:00 »
Read this in the Toronto Sun, it is a story from the Canadian Press, maybe it's time we start looking a little more closely at the background of people coming here.

 http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/News/2004/03/04/369489.html

'We are al-Qaida family'


By CP


A Canadian family that has long denied ties to al-Qaida now admits that they are not only terrorists but believe it's noble for them to die for the cause. Abdurahman Khadr told CBC-TV's The National last night that his two brothers and father fought as al-Qaida terrorists and the family even lived at Osama bin Laden's camp.

"We are an al-Qaida family."

His mother and sister, interviewed in Pakistan, said they were proud of their family's connection to bin Laden.

Abdurahman Khadr, who was released from the U.S. jail and returned to Toronto last year, said he was "raised to become an al-Qaida, was raised to become a suicide bomber, was raised to become a bad person ... I decided on my own that I do not want to be that.

"I want to be a good, strong, civilized, peaceful Muslim."

Khadr said when the family was staying at the bin Laden camp, his father tried three times to persuade him to become a suicide bomber, telling him the sacrifice would make him the pride of the family.

In Pakistan, his mother said she'd be happy if her children died the same way as her husband -- a martyr.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2005, 21:00:33 by Bruce Monkhouse »

Offline Devlin

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2004, 07:24:00 »
Quote
Khadr said when the family was staying at the bin Laden camp, his father tried three times to persuade him to become a suicide bomber, telling him the sacrifice would make him the pride of the family.

In Pakistan, his mother said she‘d be happy if her children died the same way as her husband -- a martyr.
Ah yes welcome to Canada sir, have you heard about our social assistance programs and low income housing. Come right in we‘ll get you all setup to live with the infidels.

This really burns my *** especially when I get apporached by some of my troops (reserve) who are barely scrapping by and are looking for extra days work here and there.

The_Falcon is bang on when he says we should be looking more closely at people who come to our country. I‘m all for diversity in a country‘s population, but our immigration rules are just a little too slack for my liking.

My $0.02

Offline absent_element

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2004, 07:37:00 »
Yea definitly a little too liberal with immigration.

I didn‘t actually see the National last night, but I did catch parts of it. Needless to say that I was quite disgusted. Didn‘t the women say they were happy about the attacks on 9.11? And appearently they were sad about the deaths of civilians but they paid taxes so therefore it was ok.

Some people really got their head up their ***.
$quot;Laws change, justice remains the same.
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Offline Jungle

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2004, 08:22:00 »
The first thing to do is arrest them all for being members of a terrorist org. If we don‘t have the balls to deal with them, forfeit their CDN citizenship and turn them over to the US authorities... They‘ll deal with them.
F&$K THEM !!!   :mad:    :mad:
"I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind."
- John G. Diefenbaker. July 1, 1960. From the Canadian Bill of Rights.

Offline Gunnar

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2004, 08:39:00 »
Well, from what I‘ve heard we have some of the best immigration laws in the world.  It‘s tough to come to Canada to become a landed immigrant or citizen.

Unfortunately, our immigration policy is entirely short-circuited by the refugee status claims, which bypass any of the checks and balances we have in place.
If you are not prepared to use force to defend civilization, then be prepared to accept barbarism --Thomas Sowell

Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for the West as it commits suicide.

Offline Marauder

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2004, 08:46:00 »
To **** with arresting these phucks. They‘ve all but admitted to rendering aid and comfort to the enemy in a time of war. If the Liberals had any balls these b@stards would have been sent to their 72 virgins on a cold Toronto night after a no knock entry courtesy of the Dwyer Hill ski team.
"Lions mustn't concern themselves with the opinions of lambs."

Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2004, 09:14:00 »
Marauder couldn‘t agree more, you had me laughing my @$$ off! Dywer Hill ski team! I like that. Maj Baker you aren‘t knocking us, everyone here is well aware that our Refugee system is joke and that we are an easy target.

Offline Hulk

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2004, 09:23:00 »
Marauder, to that post, I   :salute:   you!

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Cry Havoc! and let slip the dogs of war.

Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2004, 09:29:00 »
Here is the transcript from The National that aired last night.

 http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/khadr/index.html

Al-Qaeda Family: The firefight at Waziristan
CBC News Online | March 3, 2004

Reporter: Terence McKenna
Producers: Nazim Baksh, Michelle Gagnon, Alex Shprintsen


Osama bin Laden  
After Sept. 11, 2001 Osama bin Laden and other senior figures in al-Qaeda left the city of Jalalabad, Afghanistan and fled south to the tribal areas that straddle the Pakistani-Afghan border.

For years these areas have been self-governing and self-policing, and the tribal leaders here were happy to give sanctuary to al-Qaeda members and their families in exchange for cash.

There have been sporadic military offensives to look for them ever since.

One such offensive by the Pakistani army took place on Oct. 2, 2003. Senior al-Qaeda figures were reported to be holed up in a house in the province of Waziristan on the Pakistani side of the border. The Pakistan army surrounded the house and demanded a surrender. An intense firefight broke out and two Pakistani soldiers were killed.

The battle raged on for hours.


 
Finally a Pakistani Cobra attack helicopter shelled the house.

After the attack, 18 prisoners were taken. Eight bodies were pulled from the rubble. The Pakistanis were disappointed they had not found Osama bin Laden. But they did find the body of another man long identified as a senior leader of al-Qaeda - a 57-year-old Canadian citizen named Ahmed Said Khadr who was born in Egypt.


Ahmed Said Khadr  
In late February 2004, in the Pakistani capital of Islamabad, Ahmed Said Khadr‘s wife, Maha, and 23-year old daughter, Zaynab, agreed to sit down for their first television interview since his death.

They have always claimed that Ahmed Said Khadr was not a terrorist. But now they say that he was proud to die as a shaheed, a martyr, a soldier of Islam.

"We believe that death comes when God had planned it, before He created the humanity, it‘s planned, so I just accept, [but] it hurt," Maha said.

"We believe dying by the hand of your enemy because you believe in... you‘re doing it in the way of Allah, that it‘s the best way to die," Zaynab told CBC. "My father had always wished that he would be killed... he would be killed for the sake of Allah. I remember when we were very young he would say, if you guys love me, pray for me that I get jihaded, which is killed."


Ahmed Said Khadr‘s wife, Maha, and 23-year old daughter, Zaynab  
At the Pakistani defence ministry in nearby Rawalpindi, Maj.-Gen. Shaukat Sultan has no doubt about the true identity of Ahmed Said Khadr.

"So he was certainly a terrorist... because... he did not surrender voluntarily on the offer that was made earlier before the operation went in," Sultan said.

"This man did not surrender. That was one. Number two, the firefight started and the firefight lasted almost for 12 hours. And those people who were killed they were certainly those who were fighting thoroughly with the army troops."

Ahmed Said Khadr‘s 14-year-old son, Karim, lies in the military hospital in Rawalpindi, shot in the spine in the same battle that killed his father. He is paralysed from the waist down.

Maha would be happy if her children died the same way. "You know we are promised that we go to heaven," she says.

Zaynab says, "I‘d love to die like that. I‘d love my daughter to die... even if [it is] simple, very simple, naïve," Maha says.

"Yeah it‘s heaven. It‘s heaven, you know," Zaynab says.

Ahmed Said Khadr‘s 22-year-old son, Abdullah, escaped the fighting that day because he was away from the house running an errand.


Abdullah Khadr  
He agreed to an interview only if we concealed his face, because he is still considered a wanted al-Qaeda fugitive in Pakistan. He says his father talked about becoming a martyr.

"Dying for Islam is... hopeful for every Muslim," Abdullah says. "Everybody loves to die for his religion," he says. "Every Muslim dreams of being a shaheed for Islam... like you die for your religion. Everybody dreams of this, even a Christian would like to die for their religion."

Two years ago, in Afghanistan, another of Ahmed Said Khadr‘s sons, Omar, now 17, was shot three times in a firefight with American troops.

Omar lost the sight of one eye. He is now in the infamous U.S. military prison at Guantanamo, Cuba, accused of killing an American soldier with a grenade.


Omar Khadr  
Maha is proud of Omar. "Of course. He defended himself," she says. "He just did not give any - you know, I thought they were very simple kids."

"If you were in that situation what would you have done? I must ask everybody that," Zaynab says.

"I hope you don‘t say, ‘I would bow down.‘ No, no, no," Maha says. "Wouldn‘t you like your Canadian son to be so brave to stand up and fight for his right?"

"He‘d been bombarded for hours. Three of his friends who were with him had been killed. He was the only sole survivor," Zaynab says. "What do you expect him to do, come up with his hands in the air? I mean it‘s a war. They‘re shooting at him. Why can‘t he shoot at you? If you killed three, why can‘t he kill one? Why is it, why does nobody say you killed three of his friends? Why does everybody say you killed an American soldier? Big deal."

Offline Gunnar

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2004, 10:47:00 »
Quote
"If you were in that situation what would you have done? I must ask everybody that," Zaynab says.

"I hope you don‘t say, ‘I would bow down.‘ No, no, no," Maha says. "Wouldn‘t you like your Canadian son to be so brave to stand up and fight for his right?"
So, the "right" to blow up women and children is somehow no different than the right to live a peaceful, free and unmolested life.  Only problem is, "your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins".  But that‘s a philosophical point they wouldn‘t be able to grasp yet.  

If my son were to stand up and fight for his "right" to be a terrorist thug, I‘d be glad to paint him with the laser sight myself.

Terrorism is nothing more than the political expression of a misbehaved child.  When a child doesn‘t get his own way, he throws a tantrum and screams and cries until he gets what he wants.  If he repeatedly doesn‘t get what he wants, but in fact gets more discipline, he eventually learns that tantrums don‘t work.  The problem with suicide bombers is that they aren‘t around to see the complete indifference to their tantrum--sure, we‘re annoyed, but all we do is crack down on the remaining people with even more discipline.  If throwing bomb-tantrums worked, Israel would have given up, and given the Palestinians what they wanted...instead, they‘re locking the Palestinians in their room (the wall) since they don‘t know how to behave amongst civilized nations.  And they‘ll stay there until Israel decides they‘re ready to come out, with no supper either!

War is different, because the purpose of a war is to reject occupation, infringement of your rights & etc. by attacking the apparatus by which you are being attacked.  It‘s purpose is to stop the enemy from attacking and/or exploiting you.  It isn‘t tit-for-tat retaliation or punishment of the innocent (read bullying) because you lost.  If you feel somebody is bullying you, you stand up to him, or call in a higher authority.  You don‘t wait until he‘s not looking and let all the air out of his tires or steal his bike.  It doesn‘t help, and it doesn‘t send any sort of message!

And while we‘re on the topic, we‘re not oppressing them or infringing their rights.  What has occurred is that our way of life is SUPERIOR to the one they espouse (we don‘t worship death, we try to live), and they are losing their unique cultural identity to money and capitalism.  Since they can‘t compete on this level (unless they adopt our principles, which they don‘t want to do), they blow stuff up.  Well guys, the pen and the dollar, are mightier that the sword.  So you are losing, and will continue to lose.  Don‘t you get tired of losing all the time?

These people worship Death, not Allah.  They want nothing more than to die.  It‘s easy to die for religion, it is much harder to live for one.  Or, to quote Mohammed, the "real jihad is on the inside".  Those of us who want to live will outlive these little people and their little tantrums, and their "brave" acts of murder against women and children.  And the terrorist so-called muslims will be little more than a footnote in history, remembered sadly by the People of the Book who actually follow their books, and the "surrendered" of Allah.
If you are not prepared to use force to defend civilization, then be prepared to accept barbarism --Thomas Sowell

Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for the West as it commits suicide.

Offline Infanteer

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2004, 10:56:00 »
I think a para course without a chute over the cave of their choice would be a good way to deal with the entire family.
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline PikaChe

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2004, 11:06:00 »
Isn‘t this the schmucks that claimed that they were in A-stan as ‘aid workers‘?

Marauder, my man, you have way with words.  :D

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2004, 11:12:00 »
So what actions are to be taken about this confession the goverment better sprout a set of nuts and ****in prosecute these ****s. This **** makes me sick man **** those dirty *******s need their life revoked   :soldier:

Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2004, 11:20:00 »
Dunno, the link I provided in the second article brings your to a main page dealing with this family. If you go to the page on the right hand side the CBC has listed the links to all the articles they have on these nitwits.


Dwyer Hill Ski Team. Still laughing my butt off with that one.   :D

Offline absent_element

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2004, 07:50:00 »
The second part of the interview was on the National last night. Did anybody catch that?


One of the things that boils me most about this situation is after stating how pleased they were about her husband/father fighting and dying in Afghanistan she went onto say that she hopes to return to Canada so her injured son can get the best possible health care.

OMFG....please tell me those people are not going to be allowed to return to this country...
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Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2004, 08:00:00 »
WHAT!!!! GRRRR!!!!!  :mad:    :mg:    :fifty:    :akimbo:

Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2004, 08:09:00 »
There are more transcripts on the CBC site about this family, but this is the one from last night were the mother hopes to come back here.  Its at the end. Well you know what b****, f*** you! your proud you hubby died a matyr as an enemy of Canada and her allies, then you stay over on that side of the world and rot!!

Al-Qaeda Family: Coming home
CBC News Online | March 4, 2004


Abdurahman‘s grandmother  
Abdurahman called his grandmother in Toronto and told her that he desperately wanted to come back to Canada. He told her to announce in the Canadian media that the Canadian government was not helping him.

After the news about him broke in Canada, Abdurahman says he was brought to a CIA safe house in Sarajevo. He says the Americans agreed to let him go back to Canada, and he promised he would not tell anyone of the CIA relationship with him.

He says the CIA took away all the things they had bought him and dropped him off at the Canadian embassy.

When he arrived back in Canada he was met by his grandmother and her lawyer, Rocco Galati.


 
Days later he held a news conference and told lies about what happened after his release from Guantanamo. He stuck to the story he says was dictated to him by the CIA.

"You know, it is convenient but in the end it‘s only just about the truth. I‘m not saying this story for the people that are going to think it‘s convenient or for the people that think it‘s not convenient. I want everybody to know what happened."

Abdurahman had mentioned that he was twice subjected to polygraphs, lie detector tests by the CIA.


Lie detector test  
We asked him if he would submit to another series of polygraph tests to prove he was telling the truth now and he immediately accepted. The professional examiner asked him about working for American intelligence, being paid for it, being flown on a small jet to Bosnia for his mission there and other key parts of his story. On all major aspects of his story, he passed the polygraph test.

On February 1, 2004, thousands of Muslims gathered in Toronto for prayers to mark the end of the Hajj, the annual pilgrimage to Mecca. Abdurahman Khadr was among them. He volunteers at his local mosque and is looking for a job.


 
He hopes to be an accepted member of the Muslim community in Toronto, but is worried about the reaction to his story from other Muslims, especially from his own family. His mother and sister are still living in Pakistan and deny any family connection to al-Qaeda.

"They will dread me. My mother especially, she will dread me for doing this. She will totally dread me for doing this...She‘ll say ‘you left us. You sold out on your father. You sold out on your people. You know, you told a story, you know, you worked with the CIA.‘"


The vest  
Every day in Islamabad, Abdurahman‘s mother Maha carefully folds up a treasured family heirloom. It is the partially burned, blood-spattered military vest her husband was wearing when he was killed last October by the Pakistan military. She carries it with her everywhere as a kind of good luck charm, dreaming of the day that she and her children can join him in paradise, something she believes is guaranteed because her husband died the death of a shaheed, a martyr.


 
We did not tell Abdurahman‘s mother and sister the full details of his work for the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, but they figured he must have offered some co-operation in order to be released from Guantanamo.

"He is intelligent and it‘s okay," Maha says.

"As long as he didn‘t really help them," Zaynab says. "He just fooled them. I don‘t mind it. If he really did something, I‘d be ashamed of him, because Islamically, you‘re not allowed to co-operate with the enemy. It‘ll cost you your life."

Abdurahman Khadr says he would like to write a book about his personal journey from Osama bin Laden to the CIA. For now he‘s getting re-acquainted with life in Canada.


 
In Toronto, he likes to spend time on Gerrard Street, where he can carry on in Dhari, Pashtu, Urdu, and Arabic, as well as English.

He hopes that one day all the surviving members of his family can join him here to start a new life.

In Pakistan, the women of the Khadr family are living on handouts and the kindness of old friends of the family. Maha hopes to be able to return to Canada soon with her 14-year-old son Karim, so that he can get the best medical attention for his spinal cord injuries. She, too, hopes that one day her family can be back together, in one country, under one roof.

Offline clasper

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2004, 08:24:00 »
So Abdurahman Khadr was working for the CIA?  And when they no longer had any use for this double agent, no doubt they fed him milk and cookies, and let him walk out the front door.  Something in his story doesn‘t quite add up.
E Tenebris Lux

Offline absent_element

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2004, 08:27:00 »
Quote
Originally posted by The_Falcon:
[qb]  Well you know what b****, f*** you! your proud you hubby died a matyr as an enemy of Canada and her allies, then you stay over on that side of the world and rot!!

 [/qb]
My thoughts exactly. I guess it should give us an accurate idea about how Canada is viewed by terrorists and their supporters.
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Offline Carcharodon Carcharias

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2004, 14:40:00 »
Welcome to the world of being politically correct, and as I have said before, this is simply a language of cowards.

Read on..... (if you thinks its bad in Toronto...)

Some Sydney suburbs are havens for extreme Islam with many supporting 11 Sep and Bali bombings. On 12 Sep 01, many danced in the streets partying. Other so called ‘men‘ are wanted in Lebanon fo terror bombings, but they freely walk the streets here. The govt will not deport beacuse thye have become citizens! Thats shocking but true. They have become above the law!

Many have been picked up by ASIO, and are being monitered by ASIO and other agencies right now.

There are almost 300,000 muslims in Sydney alone. That almost 100,000 more than our native Aboriginies in the whole country!

They have develped a power base here now, and many Australians wonde where there country will be in 25 yrs.

The terror threat from within our own borders is alive and well and REAL, thanks to our limp wristed government for letting them in here in droves without proper checks.

Now we have become quite hard on migrants from the middle east for obvious reasons, and we are condemmed in the media for doing so. In my opinion, and in another 18,000,000 Australians, we are not hard enough!

Cheers,

Wes
"You've never lived until you've almost died; as for our freedom, for those of us who have fought for it, life has a flavour the protected will never know." - Anonymous

Offline Scotty

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2004, 10:32:00 »
Quote
Originally posted by Marauder:
[qb] To **** with arresting these phucks. They‘ve all but admitted to rendering aid and comfort to the enemy in a time of war. If the Liberals had any balls these b@stards would have been sent to their 72 virgins on a cold Toronto night after a no knock entry courtesy of the Dwyer Hill ski team. [/qb]
:D   That just made my morning.

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2004, 12:15:00 »
Quote
Originally posted by absent_element:

One of the things that boils me most about this situation is after stating how pleased they were about her husband/father fighting and dying in Afghanistan she went onto say that she hopes to return to Canada so her injured son can get the best possible health care.  
That just proves they have no phookin idea what and who they are fighting. Someone said it best in another thread - War is part of there culture and always will be. It was ok to kill the Americans because they paid taxes?? WTF does that mean?   :eek:

Scum of the Earth. Words can‘t do justice in describing these "people".      :rage:

Offline portcullisguy

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2004, 13:04:00 »
As a front line border worker, I can tell you from personal experience the frustration we all feel at our collective inability to do anything to improve or influence immigration policy.

We, the workers, know the system is broken.  We cannot do anything to fix it, except do our jobs and hope things work out.

But alas, the situation is quite bad.

Often, because of the bureaucratic nightmare involved in a simple deportation, removal, or "permission to leave Canada" (huh?) document immigration CAN issue, it is often easier to simply suggest to a non-genuine visitor that they "withdraw" their entry to Canada, and leave voluntarily.

Of course, a week later, they come back and try their luck again.  Surprise!

This actually happened to me on a case I dealt with in December.

The details are unimportant, but a particular individual was sent to immigration by me, the front line customs officer, who was unwilling to decide to release this person freely into Canadian society.  Immigration did the best they could to poke holes in her story, and eventually, because there was no criminal history, and their documentation appeared in order, they were simply told to withdraw their entry, which the traveller did.

One week later, this same person showed up in Montreal.  This time, the person had been briefed properly by her handlers.  She had NO passport, and she immediately made a refugee claim.

Now, the "system" kicks in, and a person who was already asked to leave Canada once will now get a refugee hearing.  It is now believed the passport she had on her first trip was false, but since she didn‘t have it the second time, we don‘t have the evidence to prove it, and it wouldn‘t make a difference for her ref claim anyway.

By the way, it is an offence to use a forged passport to enter Canada... unless you are claiming refugee status!

There are a number of legitimate refugees that Canada receives each year, based on an allotment that the UNHCR decides for each industrialized naton.  They are screened, and are genuinely in need of protection from civil, political or religious strife somewhere in the world.  However, the vast majority who arrive at our borders -- EVERY DAY without fail -- are not genuine, and are simply jumping the queue, or taking advantage of our very weak system.

They cannot be screened properly at the port of entry, and we cannot detain them all.  Most of them are released with instructions to show up for their hearing, or face a warrant.  Big deal.  By the time the warrant is issued, they‘re long gone, living under another identity, or the warrant isn‘t in the computer system when/if they are stopped by police doing something they shouldn‘t be.

It is frustrating, and every border worker hates the situation.  But until those with decision-making power (ie, Cabinet) make significant changes, we are living with this obstacle to free and safe society.  Period.
portcullisguy

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2004, 13:05:00 »
"Word can‘t do justice in describing these "people". Well, in actual fact, words did. The media has just been used, big time, to promote the Al Quaeda organization. Because you know what? I‘ll lay money on it that there are some bleeding hearts sitting out there right now moaning and sniffling about the poor mother and child and how they should be allowed to come back to Canada. We are the "melting pot" after all. And there are some sitting out there poo pooing the CIA for the miserable treatment that they allowed to befall this poor soul. And some lawyer is going to volunteer their services to represent this family and get monetary retribution for what this country has put these poor people through. And this all happened because we allowed the media to interview this family and run with the story.

Methinks the Al Quaeda psy ops is working quite well.

Duotone81

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Re: Canadian Al-Qaida Family
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2004, 13:46:00 »
What I meant to say was I couldn‘t think of any words that would properly portray them in their true context. Terrorists? That‘s a given. Homicidal maniacs? I‘m not qualified to make that assesment but they kill for no reason, IMO, so the line is very thin.

Helping out Al Qeada‘s cause? Who knows but I do see your point. The mother was spouting off crap about how Osama was a normal everyday guy. LMFOA! Anyone who claims justification for murder because people pay taxes and claims this behind a full body robe because she feels it‘s neccessary for women to not show their bodies deserves a knock upside the head. If anything I thought the doc showed just how truely disgusting these people are.