Author Topic: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF  (Read 372667 times)

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Offline Jingo

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #50 on: May 22, 2009, 14:17:46 »
Ask the CF NIS how often this type of behaviour gets reported. As a recruit she is speaking out of turn. I would take her more seriously if say she had 10-15 years in the CF and something to base that remark on.

Are you saying that a new recruit wouldn't be taken seriously that the incident happened or that this behaviour gets hushed?

I agree, the NIS does take this very seriously. And by no means do they hush this behaviour
...but i don't think it takes 10-15 yrs experience to know that sometimes senarios get either played up or played down based on who is involved and the situation by those around (i.e. rumours...gossip...)

Offline Shec

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #51 on: May 22, 2009, 15:02:11 »
IMO, the MCpl was out of line. Dazed and confused? She was in a drunken stupour? She was a recruit? He should have damn well known, hands off, end of story.

Michael O'Leary's signature quote of Meinertzhagen's "Leadership is the practical application of character" is particularly relevant here.  The MCpl, as an NCO responsible for the wellbeing of his people, displayed a lack of character, a lack of leadership, a lack of integrity, that defies everything that was drummed into us on the NCO courses that I am familiar with.  And no doubt that holds for many others who have earned a set of hooks.  Inexcusable.
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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2009, 23:05:51 »
Are you saying that a new recruit wouldn't be taken seriously that the incident happened or that this behaviour gets hushed?

I agree, the NIS does take this very seriously. And by no means do they hush this behaviour
...but i don't think it takes 10-15 yrs experience to know that sometimes senarios get either played up or played down based on who is involved and the situation by those around (i.e. rumours...gossip...)

A recruit suggesting or implying that this happens often in the army is speaking out of their lanes.
If I have a grand total of 4 months in the military and I say officers are always screwed up and making dumb decisions then I am speaking out of my lane.  I'm making an accusation not based on personal experience but rumor and very likely second and third hand information.
if I say since I've been in the army I've only seen bad decisions from whomever... then thats another story.

A recruit talking about what the CF is covering up? Needs more time in to make that call.
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Offline ArmyRick

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #53 on: May 25, 2009, 08:35:48 »
Thank you, flawed Design, that was exactly my point.

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Offline Jingo

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #54 on: May 25, 2009, 12:39:40 »
A recruit suggesting or implying that this happens often in the army is speaking out of their lanes.
If I have a grand total of 4 months in the military and I say officers are always screwed up and making dumb decisions then I am speaking out of my lane.  I'm making an accusation not based on personal experience but rumor and very likely second and third hand information.
if I say since I've been in the army I've only seen bad decisions from whomever... then thats another story.

A recruit talking about what the CF is covering up? Needs more time in to make that call.

Ah.... i see your point thank you.

Offline old medic

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2009, 19:00:57 »
 Ex-soldier cleared in sex assault
By TONY BLAIS, SUN MEDIA
The Edmonton Sun
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2009/10/31/11589936-sun.html

Quote
EDMONTON - A jury yesterday found a former Edmonton reserve unit soldier not guilty of raping a female recruit, ending what he calls "almost five-and-a-half years of hell."

The acquittal of Orman Boyd Savage, 40, which resulted after just over an hour of deliberations by jurors, came following the second trial for the full-time electrician after the Court of Appeal of Alberta quashed a 2007 conviction earlier this year and ordered a retrial.

A smiling Savage, who spent five months and a week behind bars, said he was happy his ordeal is finally over.

"All I can say is that I am glad to see that this nightmare is over after five and a half years and to finally see justice actually be done," said Savage, a married father of two sons, adding the experience was "really tough" on both him and his family.

"It was a nightmare for me and a nightmare for my family," said Savage. "I knew I was innocent and I wasn't going to stop saying that no matter what happened."

The former reserve sergeant noted the acquittal came the day before Halloween, which is his wedding anniversary.

"I couldn't have hoped to give her a better anniversary present than this," said Savage, who is also hoping to be reinstated into the military. He was released in 2008.

Savage had been accused of sexually assaulting a then-21-year-old female recruit in a bathroom stall at the Debney Armoury on Roper Road after a July 30, 2004, party celebrating the end of a basic training course.

The woman, who can't be identified under a publication ban, testified Savage had raped her, but said there was a lot she couldn't remember due to blacking out and suffering a concussion when her head was slammed into a wall.

Savage told jurors it was the recruit who had come onto him after he had gone into the bathroom to help her because she was vomiting from having drunk too much.

Savage testified the woman had fallen backwards and when he picked her up, she threw her arms around his neck and tried to kiss him.

He said he tried to get away, but hit the toilet and fell backwards. He then saw stars and the next thing he knew, he was on top of the toilet and she was on top of him.

Savage was convicted in provincial court and sentenced to three years in prison after a judge rejected his version as "ludicrous" and accepted the woman's testimony.

However, an appeal court overturned the conviction and ordered a new trial after ruling the judge had failed to properly use the Supreme Court legal test used in cases where both the alleged victim and the accused give opposing versions in their testimony.
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Offline Hull.Down

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #56 on: November 01, 2009, 11:48:59 »
Absolutely ridiculous, the man's story has so many plot holes it's ridiculous.

By Canadian law even if she was intoxicated (and apparently under the effects of a concussion) she was not in the correct state of mind to deciding to have sex or not.

Why did Savage enter the ladies washroom to hold her hair? Why didn't someone else? Why didn't Savage feel it was part of his duty as a NCO to look out for his recruit rather than take advantage of their drunken stupor?

How many drinks were given to the recruit by Savage?


Now, here's more food for thought:

Savage said that the girl had been on top of him and was making sexual advances on him when they were both sitting on the toilet.

Let's say the worse thing she could be wearing was a dress and underwear and Savage was in jeans and a shirt.

If the girl was on top of him is someone actually ACTUALLY believing that she unbuttoned his jeans took them down and took off her underwear when she "fell down on him" and had already had a concussion and severely drunk to the point she probably couldn't even count the cash to pay for a drink.

The simple fact is it is very obvious that Savage was the one more in control of his situation and his state of being drunk. Savage most likely did the undressing for both people. Also, I doubt he was forced into it as it is most likely a small girl vs. him a guy.

The guy also played the fact that this court case took five years and details are forgotten especially after being in a drunken/concussed state.


People need to use their thinking caps here and understand what the testimonies really say. Key details are left out but you can still see what they are saying. "I was helping her puke by holding her hair and she knocked me over on the toilet" = I was in control of the situation, at the very least more so than her.

"She had a concussion and was very drunk to the point of puking and blacking out" =

How the hell did she initiate sex? She took off your pants and hers too after magically obtaining a 10 second sober period? No.

She probably kissed him but did not initiate sex.

Why was the cadet in the story previous on this thread sentenced to jail for kissing but this man isn't for sex with a woman who's out of her mind?


Clothing evidence has to be used I believe as well as each person's state of mind. I remember a case a while ago with 8 female Wendy's employees against the male manager saying he was putting his hand down their shirts while buttoned up and grabbing their breasts. However, it was proven that it's physically impossible to put your hand down the uniform to the breast and then one of the girls admitted all 8 of them had been in a devised lie.


As for the issue of the recruit saying "this happens a lot and it's hushed up".

How would she know? Maybe she felt it was hushed up because rumors can poison the evidence tree especially if so many people are talking about it was 3rd hand knowledge so it was better for her it was hushed up.

As for the comment of "this happens a lot".

She feels that way most likely because she has maybe heard someone say before that rape happens in the military (like the rest of the world holy crap!) and because it had happened to her she felt that she was part of a large group of women who were raped but she didn't know about them.

However, I must say that only 1/5 women who are raped actually report the offense.


And on the topic of military and rape:

I am not quite sure how it is in the Canadian Forces. I am sure the Canadian Forces is full of respectful individuals who can control their hormones and there are always the sour apples that are brought into the CF from the civy world.

Remember, these rapists, criminals, etc are all from the civilian world especially before the military. The military isn't perfect for recruiting and can't read minds or do full personality tests so some people that are bad do get in but I would say the CF is hugely better than the civilian world in terms of the amount of bad apples.


The CF at the very least is 10,000 times better than the US Navy. I don't mean to disrespect the service as a whole but I have read a book of a female in the US navy where gang bangs are apparently rampant and over 60% of her female peers participated in it consensual or not. This was more so proven by the study released at the same time by the US military about these percentages.


Anyways, that's my 2 cents. Savage should be in jail and not allowed back into the CF in my opinion.


It's a complicated issue that I feel he got off due to the length of the trial and the difficulty in remembering a trial that long ago in that state of mind.

Don't  :mg: me please >.<

Offline Petamocto

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #57 on: November 01, 2009, 11:53:17 »
WRT ongoing problem & hushed-up allegations...

If there's one thing history has proven, it's that the only way to 100% solve a problem is sweep it under the rug and cross your fingers.

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #58 on: November 01, 2009, 13:09:04 »
Absolutely ridiculous, the man's story has so many plot holes it's ridiculous.

Wow. A court-instructed and monitored jury found him "not guilty." The case was not dismissed on technicalities; he was not merely acquitted because the prosecution failed to make its case; he was actually found not guilty.

Yet you weigh in here combining the factual credibility of Fox News and the in-depth analysis of Entertainment Tonight...hypothesizing on their state of mind, dress, activities, body size, assuming that she kissed him....and (WTF?) how things really are in the US Navy.

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People need to use their thinking caps here....
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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #59 on: November 01, 2009, 13:36:21 »
Thanks for that reasoned and well thought out bit of legal conjecture, Dean22.  Clearly, you are more aware of what happened that night (and able to prove it) than seasoned investigators and the Crown.

Can you now tell us who killed Kennedy?

Mods, how about a change in the thread title to "Reservist found Not Guilty of raping recruit"?
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Re: Reservist found NOT GUILTY of rape charge
« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2009, 15:28:27 »
Is there an opening coming up on one of the CSI series?

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Re: Reservist found NOT GUILTY of rape charge
« Reply #61 on: November 01, 2009, 18:36:28 »
The man was found 'Not Guilty'. I'll apologise to Dean22 and his armchair Perry Mason Club irregulars for attempting, and proving, that idiots can be found everywhere. Thanks for coming out in the open. Next time you'll be on the Warning Sytem for being wwaaaayyyy out of your lanes.

Until something new comes along and the judiciary reopens this case, this thread is locked.

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"Ex-reservist should be compensated for flawed probe: expert"
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2009, 23:30:21 »
"Ex-reservist should be compensated for flawed probe: expert":
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2009/12/21/edmonton-reservist-assault-probe.html

Ex-reservist should be compensated for flawed probe: expert
Last Updated: Monday, December 21, 2009 | 11:29 AM MT
CBC News

A former Edmonton reservist found not guilty of sexual assault should receive compensation from the Canadian Armed Forces after an investigation by military police was found to have flaws during his trial, according to a military expert.

"Clearly, something went desperately wrong here," said Bob Bergen, an adjunct professor with the Centre for Military and Strategic Studies at the University of Calgary.
"I've seen less egregious cases than this go to compensation and I think something has to be done to redress this."

In October, a jury found Orman Savage, 40, not guilty of sexually assaulting a female recruit. Savage was accused of sexually assaulting the woman, then 21, in a large bathroom stall at a military party in Edmonton end of July 2004. Her identity is protected by a court-ordered publication ban.

It was Savage's second trial on the sexual assault charge. He was originally found guilty by a provincial court judge in 2007 and sentenced to three years in prison. But the Alberta Court of Appeal ordered a new trial last April.

During both trials, the court heard the complainant got drunk the night in question and was throwing up in the bathroom. Savage came to help her.
She alleged he sexually assaulted her. Savage testified the young recruit had come onto him.
The jury found him not guilty after deliberating for just over an hour.

The acquittal meant that Savage's legal nightmare, which began five and a half years earlier, was over. But he is left with questions about the military investigation that led to the charge being laid in the first place.

"They had made up their mind as to my guilt, I guess, already," Savage said. "And they didn't pursue or want to pursue any other information that was contrary to that."
The original investigation was conducted by a military police officer who was starting a one-year internship with the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service in 2004.

According to an agreed statement of facts entered at the second trial, the investigation was plagued by mistakes. Evidence, including a T-shirt of the complainant's, was not seized or sent for DNA analysis.

The scene of the alleged attack wasn't sealed until mid-August or checked for forensic evidence. Witnesses were not interviewed in a timely fashion. The complainant was not kept apart and interviewed separately from her mother, another potential witness in the investigation.
The case was never referred to the RCMP or the Edmonton Police Service.

Well-known Edmonton criminal defence lawyer Brian Beresh represented Savage during the second trial.
"When I looked at the case closely, I just couldn't see how he had been convicted," Beresh said.

The military's National Investigation Service can deal with sexual assaults but it may also request help from a civilian police force. Beresh wondered why this did not happen in Savage's case.

"Had they gotten one investigator involved — one only — who would have overseen what's happening — quarterbacked the investigation — this would never have happened," he said.
The military refused to do a taped interview on the issue. A spokesperson said the Forces never comment on how investigations are conducted.

Savage hopes to recoup his legal fees, which he estimates are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. But he also believes the military's National Investigation Service needs to do a better job.
"I hope that in the future that they make it so they get more training, better training, different training," Savage said.

"If they're going to be put into a position where they are supposed to be the best of the best and doing internal affairs for the Canadian Armed Forces, they should have the training and the background behind them to be able to do their job properly."
The Crown has decided not to appeal the outcome of the trial.

Savage was a master corporal before he was kicked out of the military last year because of his conviction. He has applied to be reinstated.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 06:35:45 by Bruce Monkhouse »
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Offline 211RadOp

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Man denies drugging woman
« Reply #63 on: June 17, 2010, 11:00:59 »
From today's Kingston Whig Standard

http://www.thewhig.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2626696

Posted By W. BRICE MCVICAR, QMI AGENCY
Posted 4 hours ago
 

The trial of a trio of men -- including two soldiers stationed at CFB Trenton -- charged with sexual assault, voyeurism, and administering stupefying drugs is scheduled to continue in Superior Court today.

The charges stem from three separate incidents involving women in Trenton and Fonthill, one of whom was 17-years-old at the time of the alleged crime. The names of those women cannot be made public under a publication ban.


The majority of Wednesday's proceeding involved Joseph Paul Kerlow's testimony. Kerlow, whose current rank in the military was not available Wednesday though he was a private in 2007, faces more charges than the other two with three counts of sexual assault, three counts of administering a stupefying drug and two counts of voyeurism. The other two men, Brian Fulop and Calvin Elliott, whose rank as of 2008 was corporal, each face one count of sexual assault and voyeurism. Though the exact ages of the three accused were not available, all are in their mid-to-late 20s.

All but one of the incidents involved women who claimed to have been drugged and then sexually assaulted, photographed and videotaped. One Trenton woman claimed to have been drugged and sexually assaulted though no photographs or video recordings were taken of the alleged assault.



More on link
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Offline 57Chevy

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Re: Man denies drugging woman
« Reply #64 on: June 17, 2010, 22:48:25 »
allegations and claims and even more allegations on link to boot. :UNAPC:
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Re: Man denies drugging woman
« Reply #65 on: June 18, 2010, 07:54:01 »
I saw the charge sheet and have to say, it also looks SOMEWHAT like the women involved might have had second thoughts about the whole thing... the day after. Anyway, I guess it's better to let the trial go and see what happens.

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9 Sept 10: Medic faces Sexual Assault Charges
« Reply #66 on: September 09, 2010, 15:05:27 »
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/news-nouvelles/news-nouvelles-eng.asp?cat=00&id=3543

Sexual Assault Charges Laid For Incidents
CFNIS NR – 2010-12 - September 9, 2010

LONDON, Ont. – The Canadian Forces National Investigation Service (CFNIS), the investigative arm of the Canadian Forces Military Police, charged a member of the Canadian Forces (CF) for sexual assault and other charges today in relation to incidents alleged to have happened while he was performing recruit medical examinations in southwestern Ontario on behalf of the Canadian Forces Recruiting Centre (CFRC) Detachment London.

Petty Officer Second Class James Wilks was charged with two counts of Sexual Assault contrary to section 130 of the National Defence Act (NDA) and pursuant to section 271 of the Criminal Code of Canada (CCC), three counts of Behaving in a Disgraceful Manner contrary to section 93 of the NDA, and four counts of Negligent Performance of Duty contrary to section 124 of the NDA.

“The Military Police consider sexual assault to be a serious matter and will thoroughly investigate any such allegations related to Canadian Forces personnel, civilian DND employees, or any other person on DND property,” said Lieutenant-Colonel Gilles Sansterre, Commanding Officer of the CFNIS.

The accused is performing administrative duties pending the outcome of the judicial process.

If anyone has any information pertinent to this investigation, they are requested to contact the CFNIS at 1-866-698-1119.

The CFNIS is an independent Military Police unit with a mandate to investigate serious and sensitive matters in relation to National Defence property, DND employees and CF personnel serving in Canada and abroad.

- 30 -
« Last Edit: February 26, 2012, 07:53:09 by milnews.ca »
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Re: Sexual Assault Charges Laid For Incidents
« Reply #67 on: September 13, 2010, 09:49:18 »
Military officer charged with sexual assault

LONDON, Ont. — A military officer based in London is facing nine charges after at least two women trying to join the Canadian Forces say they were sexually assaulted at a recruiting centre.

James Wilks, a petty officer second class, faces two criminal counts of sexual assault and seven military charges, including behaving in a disgraceful manner and negligence in the performance of his duties.

The allegations are that Wilks — a military medical technician who’s been with the Forces for 25 years — sexually assaulted new recruits between Sept. 2008 and Dec. 2009 while performing physical examinations.

More at link
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Re: Sexual Assault Charges Laid For Incidents
« Reply #68 on: September 13, 2010, 11:10:47 »
Are Soldiers getting dumber or are thing just getting reported more. It seems there is more and more of this in the news or have I just been wearing blinders ???
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Re: Sexual Assault Charges Laid For Incidents
« Reply #69 on: September 13, 2010, 12:27:39 »
Are Soldiers getting dumber or are thing just getting reported more. It seems there is more and more of this in the news or have I just been wearing blinders ???

My guess would be during war times, a lot of focus is put on the military in the media... at least more so than the already large amount.

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Re: Sexual Assault Charges Laid For Incidents
« Reply #70 on: September 13, 2010, 14:17:06 »
As he's not yet been tried, much less convicted, can we delay building the gallows please?  I know the guy concerned and am rather surprised by this - perhaps he's guilty of poor judgement in not having a chaperone with him, we don't know as yet.  These people may have been rejected medically based on his findings and are laying these charges frivolously - again we don't know.  I can say this - I'll be watching closely, as will many co-workers I'm sure, as when this is all said and done, there sure as Hell will be a BOI putting out a pile of reccomendations ensuring there is no way this will occur again.

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Re: Sexual Assault Charges Laid For Incidents
« Reply #71 on: September 13, 2010, 14:29:30 »
As he's not yet been tried, much less convicted, can we delay building the gallows please?  I know the guy concerned and am rather surprised by this - perhaps he's guilty of poor judgement in not having a chaperone with him, we don't know as yet.  These people may have been rejected medically based on his findings and are laying these charges frivolously - again we don't know.  I can say this - I'll be watching closely, as will many co-workers I'm sure, as when this is all said and done, there sure as Hell will be a BOI putting out a pile of reccomendations ensuring there is no way this will occur again.

MM

I agree. From what I have read here, he's got 25 in and a clean record.
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Re: Sexual Assault Charges Laid For Incidents
« Reply #72 on: September 13, 2010, 14:48:22 »
Ergo consider this the standard mod comment that as of now this thread will be stringently monitored and inappropriate comments, speculatiosn etc will be deleted and the poster may be introduced to the site warning system.

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Military confirms 1 sexual assault at Afghan base
« Reply #73 on: October 07, 2010, 04:28:07 »

"OTTAWA — The Canadian military has investigated just five reports of sexual assault in Afghanistan since 2004, with only one investigation leading to a guilty verdict — a number that contrasts sharply with the picture painted in a new book about a female soldier.


In one of her letters, Cpt. Nichola Goddard, who in 2006 became the first Canadian female combat death, refers to a week in the camp during which there were six rapes in one week. Other letters, many of which were sent to her husband, Jason Beam, illustrate an environment where women working on the base were frequent targets of sexual harassment, constantly being ogled."

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Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Military+confirms+sexual+assault+Afghan+base/3628390/story.html#ixzz11exJ1ozz

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Military+confirms+sexual+assault+Afghan+base/3628390/story.html#ixzz11ewX9eGX

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Capt+Nichola+Goddard+described+repeated+rape+cases+Canadian+military+base/3623541/story.html

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Offline Simian Turner

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Re: Military confirms 1 sexual assault at Afghan base
« Reply #74 on: October 07, 2010, 09:20:49 »
Two separate facts here - Canadians being raped and rapes on a Base of 17,000 soldiers of which Canadians were a minority. I would submit that most of the ogling takes place in the gyms because many armies do not allow their female soldiers to go out in public in anything other than a uniform.
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