Author Topic: JPSU IPSC Problems or Issues (merged)  (Read 59362 times)

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: JPSU
« Reply #50 on: November 01, 2013, 13:42:06 »
Speaking from experience in dealing with one of the JPSUs (and I hope they are all not like this) - it would be nice if the hired a few Reservists who have only been Reservists, as I had to do a lot of "explaining" and "educating" about Reservists issues/entitlements when I had to deal with them, and it sure would be nice to have someone who understands the issues.

And please, don't anyone turn this into a Reg vs Reserve "bashing" exercise.

You do have a point. 

From my experience, not with dealing with a JPSU, but with the Training System, there is a big disconnect at times between the two mentalities.  My experience was in  finding positions on career courses, and even with Reservists (actually recently retired CAF members stepping directly into a Class B position at a School) in positions to Crse load, there is often an opening that comes up last minute and lands up being a NO FILL.  Unlike the Reg Force where a member could be told Friday that they are on Crse Monday and off they go, Reservists have full-time professions as civilians and all the administration involved in getting time off from those jobs.  Some of these people need a year in advance notice to book leave from work to attend courses.  Someone without this 'knowledge/experience' posting crses on short notice, even moving crse dates to the right or left as little as one day, prevents these Reservists from getting career crses. 

You can not always deal with Regular Force and Reservists in the same manner which is not always understood by the, for the most part, Regular Force persons in charge.
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Offline stokerwes

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Re: JPSU
« Reply #51 on: November 01, 2013, 16:03:34 »
I am Reg Force and have been working at a Reserve unit for the last two years and I am still surprised at some of the differences. Especially the way injured personnel are treated.
It took me awhile to wrap my head around the timings for courses etc.. But once educated I got it.
Other than the obvious difference of part time/full time I find little difference between Reg and Res Forces as far as the people are concerned.

Online MilEME09

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Re: JPSU
« Reply #52 on: November 01, 2013, 17:11:48 »
As a Reservist going through the process right now after snapping my leg like a twig a few months ago. Both my unit and the local IPSC have looked after things as best they can, that said their frustration seems to be with the system. I was handed over to them in early September and got the ball rolling, and now its November and we are still waiting for Division and Ottawa to sign off on my claim for the Reserve Force compensation that will last until I am cleared to go back to work. If it wasn't for my unit and IPSC working out an intern plan for my pay i'd be two months without pay right now. I have nothing but praise for the ex reg force case manager at IPSC handling my case, though when I did see him last most of his staff were on leave so it was just him and one other person. Maybe a 3rd case manager might help them when one is on leave.
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Offline Radar01

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JPSU IPSC Problems or Issues
« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2014, 08:33:04 »
In 2010 I was posted to an IPSC of the JPSU as an ill/injured member.  Since that time, as an ill/injured member posted to this unit, I have often been very frustrated with how my particular IPSC treats its members and makes decisions that have often been insensitive or not in support of myself and others I have spoken to.  Now as my 28 plus year career in the Regular Force comes to an end, I can't think of any regiment, HQ, school or any other unit that treated me as bad as this unit.

During all my career I have put loyalty first in my chain of command, unit and the Canadian Forces in general.  Now as I am about to retire, I find myself at my "wit's end" with my IPSC.

Is it my perspective or are there other members who are having issue with their JPSU IPSCs?

Some general examples of my personal situation include:

a.     denying almost all requests, but particularly, without research and sometimes within only minutes or hours of receiving these simple and lawful requests that would assist for an easier transition to civilian life, denying them without any adjudication whatsoever;

b.     refusing to forward requests to higher levels where there was a clear entitlement but eventually submitting or approving them only on grievance;

c.     where there was no breach of service discipline of any type, using threats of disciplinary action as a practice;

d.     interpreting and applying career-ending processes that needlessly prejudiced some of the most important processes of my military career; and

e.     in general, treatment like I was a private recruit.

I can quote the specifics for me and others, but for this forum, this should suffice.

Previously as a junior leader in the infantry and then later as a senior leader in my current occupation, I have never treated, nor would I let my subordinates be treated, like I am being treated by this organization.

Again, surely I can't be the only one!
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 08:38:46 by Radar01 »

Online Remius

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Re: JPSU IPSC Problems or Issues
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2014, 10:23:10 »
I really can't comment on what kind of pressures the JPSUs are going through right now.  I have colleagues that work there on a class B basis.  That may be part of the issue.  Understaffed. 

This is far from an excuse but...

Having worked in a client/service office, it really does not take very long for some people to get dejected.  You deal with a lot of crap.  A lot of undeserved crap as well.  In fact you likely deal with more BS than legitimate gripes.

What happens is that people who have legitimate gripes and concerns just get lumped in with the rest.

I'm not saying you don't have legimate complaints.  But for every legimate complaints there are likely ten times more that aren't.

It took me a long time for me to get dejected in that job because I had the right attitude for the work but eventually it took its toll and when it did it was time for me to move on because I wasn't helping myself or the organisation.  I just didn't care anymore.

The problem is when people who work in these jobs don't realise that they are probably past their past due date but stay for whatever reason.  But a lot of it also has to do with people not listening, hearing what they want to hear and not liking the answers they get.  You can blame them as much as you can blame the ones at JPSU.

Anyway, sorry to highjack and good luck with everything.
Optio

Offline Radar01

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Re: JPSU IPSC Problems or Issues (merged)
« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2014, 11:51:56 »
I appreciate your perspective and agree with you to some extent.  Definitely under-staffing is a huge issue with IPSCs - no question there.  And training and experience adds to an already overworked and understaffed system.  That, and the fact that it is still not an excuse being said, the issues I have are with those in decision-making positions.  Most of these people have good experience.

It is not just that I don't like the decisions, not only were some of them wrong by regulation, they could have been harmful had I not challenged them!  As for decisions that I didn't like that were not against CF rules, order or directives, my grip is that a "NO" was easier to say than a "We will look into it and get back to you."  In three cases, what should have been an issue and that should have gone up the chain of command and taken perhaps days either approve or deny, was denied "on the spot!"

For the last few years in the CF, I was THAT person making those decisions (although not part of a JPSU).  When presented with a request that I had to deny, at least I returned the denied request with a reason other than, and I quote the notations, "Not approved" or "Denied." This is even most important when dealing with career altering or benefit altering decisions.

One last point, when a member makes a well presented request, whether is it reasonable or not, the fact that it was well presented, well represented and at least approvable within the framework of current CF policy, the least an OPI can do is deny it with a reason; any reason; good or bad!

Thanks for the perspective and input.



Offline Radar01

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Re: JPSU
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2014, 15:24:54 »
My experience with a certain JPSU/IPSC was less than "supportive. Even my Wing Social Worker could not believe the way some were treated at the Unit. I personally think some at that Unit forgot they were dealing with members who are sick and injured both physically and mentally.

I realize we were still in uniform but were nowheres near accomodating to each members particular issues.
Totally frigged up my Depart with "Dignity" and I use that term loosely. Was considering contacting the WCWO after I was officially out, to see about my flag I was entitled to (after 27+ yrs) but that was the last item on DWD and was not up to facing these IPSC folks again. Eventually got my flag, which was co-incidentally flown on the wrong date and the Sgt i/c admitted he had "dropped the ball" with me and thought I already had the flag.   :facepalm:

I have totally waived my DWD with my IPSC.  I don't want them to give me a single certificate, letter, pin or anything.  With respect to not accommodation a particular issue; when I received my disclosure of information, as per the DAOD 5019-2, AR Process Table, I had 15 working days to respond. But on Step 9 of that Table, it states that DMCA will grant a reasonable period of extra time to respond if required.  I asked for two weeks as I had a significant re-evaluation of my complete medical condition with specialists that would likely effect my release process.  My request was denied within an hour of submitting my request and told that if I did not respond right away that no representation would be submitted.  The calamity of this is that the IPSC officer that denied my request, didn't even have the authority to do anything but send it to the CO and then to the DMCA AR Analyst.  I had to resolve it with a Grievance.  More stress!

I can go on, but I won't.  In reiteration, my IPSC will have nothing to do with any DWD of mine.  Sorry!

note: I dealt with 2 different JPSU/IPSC Units and one was certainly no better than the other.

*rant off*

Offline krustyrl

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Re: JPSU IPSC Problems or Issues (merged)
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2014, 15:36:40 »
Time has passed and I'm not quite as bitter but wouldn't change my words one bit. 
Edit to add : that training should be standard used allowing staff to be more knowledgeable. In my case my platoon Sgt had no idea there were different couloir CF Service Pins and when I was given the wrong pin, I was told " I never knew there were different pins, I must have taken a different SCAN Seminar than you did".  My reply was that the SCAN briefings were done by the same people as a traveling roadshow twice a year.

Just woke up my frustration levels now and I've been doing so well. Grrr.  :facepalm:
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 15:50:14 by krustyrl »

Offline stellarpanther

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JPSU/IPSC
« Reply #58 on: May 14, 2015, 21:32:07 »
Hopefully this is the correct spot for this post.

I was advised my unit today that they wanted to try to get me put into JPSU because of an injury I sustained that will require surgery.  I know a few people that have this type of surgery and other than a 6-8 month recovery time which I'll be off for about 6-8 weeks I should be fine.  Other than that it's modified duties.  If I was in any other unit I would probably be accommodated during this recovery but this pace doesn't want to and the Career Manager won't someone else in there while.  While they acknowledged they don't even know if the file will be accepted, my question is whether I should try to have it denied.

Offline MCG

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Re: JPSU/IPSC
« Reply #59 on: May 14, 2015, 22:17:04 »
There is nothing wrong with going to JPSU to get better.  That is what the unit exists to do.  You can ask for a return to work placement back to your current unit.  That would see you continue to work in your current unit while not filling a spot on the establishment.

Are you in a deployable unit? 

Offline Rider Pride

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Re: JPSU/IPSC
« Reply #60 on: May 15, 2015, 07:54:14 »
Not knowing, nor do I care to know, what surgery you are to have, I would speculate that due to the extended period you are requiring for time off and for rehab, it sounds like your MO determined that you will not be able to return to full duties for quite an extended period.  (Speculating almost a full year)

The MO would have informed your CO of that, and the CO decided that your unit needs your position filled while you were recovering.

They are using IPSC for its purpose. Take the reduced pace and heal. Your still in and still getting paid on pensionable time. You're only in the military for a temporary period of your life; if you do not recover properly, you will be in pain for life.
"Return with your shield, or upon it."

Offline Brasidas

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Re: JPSU/IPSC
« Reply #61 on: May 15, 2015, 20:58:57 »
...While they acknowledged they don't even know if the file will be accepted, my question is whether I should try to have it denied.

To what end would you want to avoid this?

There's nothing wrong with going to JPSU, nor does it stop you cold from doing work in your trade. A RTW program could be arranged to work within your limitations, but your time should be focussed on your recovery.

Offline stellarpanther

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Re: JPSU/IPSC
« Reply #62 on: May 16, 2015, 09:44:26 »
Not knowing, nor do I care to know, what surgery you are to have, I would speculate that due to the extended period you are requiring for time off and for rehab, it sounds like your MO determined that you will not be able to return to full duties for quite an extended period.  (Speculating almost a full year)

The MO would have informed your CO of that, and the CO decided that your unit needs your position filled while you were recovering.

They are using IPSC for its purpose. Take the reduced pace and heal. Your still in and still getting paid on pensionable time. You're only in the military for a temporary period of your life; if you do not recover properly, you will be in pain for life.

The MO or the CO haven't even heard about this yet.  My concern is because the only people I know/knew in JPSU were in the process of being medically released and that isn't expected in my case. 

Offline Rider Pride

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Re: JPSU/IPSC
« Reply #63 on: May 16, 2015, 10:13:31 »
The MO or the CO haven't even heard about this yet.  My concern is because the only people I know/knew in JPSU were in the process of being medically released and that isn't expected in my case.

The CO, MO and to a lesser extent, your RSM (or equivalent) must know, because they are the ones who sign the paperwork and provide the justification and plan.

You need to ask your MO and your CoC some questions?

And no, the unit I am in, we send people there so they can take a break from the tempo and stress of the job while they are recovering. Everyone of them is expected to return.
"Return with your shield, or upon it."

Offline stellarpanther

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Re: JPSU/IPSC
« Reply #64 on: June 10, 2015, 20:52:26 »
The application is now with the BSurg.  What happened was the WO got the idea to try to have me posted to JPSU because he wants to try to get my position filled, and discussed it with the Captain who went along with it.  The CO found out about it a week or so after they told me they were going to try to do that.  After learning everything I have about JSPU, I am actually hoping I'll get accepted because it will allow me to heal without being rushed by my unit or pushed to do things I probably should not be doing anyway.  Both the surgeon and MO assure me that barring any unforeseen complication, other than a lengthy recovery time, this definitely will not get me released.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: JPSU/IPSC
« Reply #65 on: June 10, 2015, 22:49:19 »
Exactly.  The folks I know at JPSU love to have people who recover and return to service.
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Offline MCG

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Re: JPSU & IPSC Problems or Issues (merged)
« Reply #66 on: July 03, 2015, 22:47:29 »
Looks like it will be 2017 before DND completes any thorough analysis of how the JPSU system is working, but the Ombudsman will resume the task for the interim.
Quote
DND quietly shelves report from investigation into inadequate care for ill and injured troops
Chris Cobb, Postmedia News
National Post
29 June 2015

The Department of National Defence has quietly shelved an investigation into the much-criticized units created to help Canada’s most vulnerable ill and injured Afghan war veterans and other troops being transitioned out of the military.

The military ombudsman’s office is calling the DND move both “surprising and disappointing” amid reports from within the Joint Personnel Support Unit (JPSU) system that it continues to fail many troops who have been left with severe mental and physical injury in the service of their country.

In a report more than 18 months ago, the ombudsman criticized JPSU for being inadequately staffed with personnel ill-trained to deal with serving war vets at their emotionally lowest points.

JPSU, now seven years old, is an umbrella unit for 24 Integrated Personnel Support Centres (IPSCs) across Canada and was created to offer programs to support and enable mentally and physically injured troops to resume their military careers or, more realistically, to make a gradual transition into the civilian world with sellable skills.

In a series of Ottawa Citizen articles that helped to spur the ombudsman’s 2013 investigation, injured troops and former troops complained that the system was a shambles, with overworked staff regularly unable to cope and suffering burnout.

In one case, a staffer became so stressed that she joined the ill and injured ranks and became a posted-in member to an IPSC.

Ombudsman Gary Walbourne told the Citizen on Friday that his office had postponed its own deeper probe into JPSU last year on the understanding that the defence department would be conducting an investigation and issuing a public analysis and report on its findings this month.

DND now says that it will be 2017 before any report sees the light of day, even though it apparently began its investigation with visits to IPSCs a year ago.

Walbourne is refusing to wait another two years.

He is asking DND for all the data and feedback it has gathered so far so his staff can kick-start their own investigation without replicating what DND has already done.

“Given the importance of the Joint Personnel Support Unit and the fact that ill and injured CF members are posted there during one of the most stressful periods of their military careers (not to mention the impact on families), I feel an evaluation of the JPSU governance model is essential now, rather than later,” said Walbourne.

The ombudsman said he would be asking for DND’s data “to avoid duplication of effort and unnecessary additional costs to the tax payer.”

DND confirmed to the Citizen that the JPSU probe will be delayed two years but said the ill and injured units are “one piece of a much larger evaluation.

“That evaluation was only at the preliminary stage and no proposed drafts had been completed,” said a DND spokesperson in a emailed statement to the Citizen.

“We didn’t stop midway through it,” added the statement.

The ombudsman has acknowledged that improvements have been made within the JPSU system — notably with increased staffing that began in late 2013.

But there are no current, publicly available data to measure the progress, and reports from inside the system suggest that it continues to lack much needed resources and structure.

Chris Dupée, founder of the help group Military Minds and released from the military last December, says the system continues to fail many of the ill and injured who are “falling through the cracks.

“The intent is good, but the implementation is terrible,” he said. “(Support Centre) leadership have their hands tied because they can’t even gather everyone for an hour a week under one roof and make them feel like soldiers again.”

Dupée, who was released from an IPSC in Toronto, says some mentally injured soldiers are allowed to stay away from base because the contact triggers anxiety attacks.

Others get business-owning friends or relatives to “hire” them when, in reality, says Dupée, they are spending those alleged work hours alone at home “staring at walls” and ignoring email and phone messages from supervisors.

The situation is worse at combat bases such as Petawawa and Gagetown, where IPSCs are in “brutal” shape, he said.

“The good thing about JPSU is that there are lots of programs,” he said, “but these troops are at their lowest. They need help to get through the system and they’re not getting it.”

Retired master warrant officer Barry Westholm, who was second in command of JPSU’s massive Eastern Ontario region before resigning in protest at the system’s deterioration, wrote to federal leaders two months ago to warn that support centre staffs and troops continue to suffer consequences of a poorly run system.

Westholm, who also addressed his email to Defence Minister Jason Kenney and Veterans Affairs Minister Erin O’Toole, pointed to recent suicides and one alleged murder among troops posted into Eastern Ontario region JPSU.

“The JPSU has the makings of an incredible proactive assist to our military’s ill and injured (and their families),” he wrote, “but it is being horrifically mismanaged at the highest level.

“It takes a one-on-one relationship, not a Power-Point presentation, to accomplish rehabilitation/reintegration our ill and injured service-members,” he added. “It takes good people, strong leaders, empathetic leaders, creative leaders … and patience.”

Ombudsman spokesman Jamie Robertson said that although DND says its probe of JPSU is part of a wider evaluation of military processes, Walbourne wants to focus on JPSU for the immediate benefit of the ill and injured.

“It’s about making that transition less stressful,’ he said. “Those ill and injured soldiers deserve it.”
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/dnd-quietly-shelves-report-from-investigation-on-care-for-ill-and-injured-troops

I've heard mixed reviews from pers who have been through JPSU.  One individual, who made it back to his regiment, noted that initially the IPSC was very good and he did start to get better ... but, improvement plateaued.  He had gone from the structured and healthy routine of the regiment to something with no structure and heavily populated by the depressed and pessimistic.  The plateau eventually gave way to his getting worse.  He came back only because his attached posting expired and he had never fully been posted.  Hopefully the unit will find him employment that will allow his recovery.

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Re: JPSU IPSC Problems or Issues (merged)
« Reply #67 on: August 09, 2015, 14:08:00 »
Looks like it will be 2017 before DND completes any thorough analysis of how the JPSU system is working, but the Ombudsman will resume the task for the interim.http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/dnd-quietly-shelves-report-from-investigation-on-care-for-ill-and-injured-troops ....
Looking for something else, and am belatedly sharing this as an update ....
Quote
Defence Minister Jason Kenney has ordered his department to release data it gathered during an internal investigation into the troubled military unit responsible for the care of ill and injured troops.

The Ottawa Citizen revealed Monday that DND had quietly shelved its partially finished investigation into the Joint Personnel Support Unit (JPSU) system saying it would not release any details until 2017.

The department began the investigation in August 2013 after a storm of criticism over JPSU’s failures.

It is unclear why the military needed four years to complete and release a report on the unit but according to a spokesperson, the JPSU probe was still only at the preliminary stage.

DND ombudsman Gary Walbourne said two years is too long to wait and late last week asked DND for all the information it has already gathered so his staff can continue the investigation independently without duplicating cost or effort.

Walbourne’s office confirmed late Monday (29 June) that the minister had ordered his department to hand over the data so ombudsman staff can continue the investigation.

( .... )
Ombudsman spokesman Jamie Robertson said ombudsman investigators intend to analyze the DND information gleaned from numerous IPSC/JPSU visits and move quickly to complete a report – likely within six months of getting the DND data.ombudsman investigators intend to analyze the DND information gleaned from numerous IPSC/JPSU visits and move quickly to complete a report – likely within six months of getting the DND data.
Even if the 'Budman has some work done & ready to share, it won't be shared until after October 19 thanks to the "Caretaker Convention" in place until then.  I guess it'll also depend how quickly the data gets handed over.

- edited by poster to get facts straight -
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 14:19:35 by milnews.ca »
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JPSU Application Process
« Reply #68 on: February 17, 2016, 11:26:58 »
I was hoping if someone could provide me with a brief overview of the JPSU application process from start to finish. It is my understanding that the application goes through a number of different organizations before being finalized and a posting message cut. Just wondering what those organizations are and the approximate time it takes to go through. Ive done a number of searches with no luck.

Thank you for your time and any help you can provide.

Offline NavyPhoenix

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Re: JPSU Application Process
« Reply #69 on: February 17, 2016, 14:41:51 »
The application form is a DND 2794 which can be found on the CF Forms Catalogue. Section 1 is simply the member's particulars. Section 2 is completed by the member's CO and then forwarded to the Base/Wing Surgeon for their comments.  The form is then forwarded to the Officer Commanding of the local Regional JPSU HQ and finally back to the member's CO for final comments and sent to the Career Manager.  This form utilizes digital signatures (do NOT use the old form!).  This is a much faster process than in the past as the form simply needs to be emailed (PKI) to each step of the process.

A memo from the member to their CoC requesting support for a posting to JPSU never hurts.

For criteria, see CANFORGEN 114/11.

Hope this helps

Offline mariomike

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Re: JPSU Application Process
« Reply #70 on: February 17, 2016, 14:53:14 »
I was hoping if someone could provide me with a brief overview of the JPSU application process from start to finish.

You may find these discussions of helpful,

JPSU IPSC Problems or Issues (merged)
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=108455.0
3 pages.

JPSU
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=119372.0

Joint Personal Support Unit 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=104470.0

For future reference, perhaps JPSU will be merged.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2016, 15:32:54 by mariomike »

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Re: JPSU IPSC Problems or Issues (merged)
« Reply #71 on: August 04, 2016, 06:55:36 »
Bumped with the latest - new boss taking over ...
Quote
Media are invited to attend the Joint Personnel Support Unit (JPSU) Change of Command Ceremony as Brigadier-General Dave Corbould takes over from Captain (N) France Langlois.

The JPSU provides personal administrative support and programs to ill and injured Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) members of the Regular and Reserve Force who have medical employment limitations that preclude them from returning to their normal place of duty for a period of six months or more.

What: JPSU Change of Command Ceremony 

When: Friday, August 5, 2016 at 9 a.m. EDT

Where: National Defence Headquarters Concourse, 101 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa, Ontario ...
“Most great military blunders stem from the good intentions of some high-ranking buffoon ...” – George MacDonald Fraser, "The Sheik and the Dustbin"

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Tony Prudori
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Offline ninjapixie

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Timing question on being posted to JPSU
« Reply #72 on: December 08, 2016, 18:02:06 »
This is probably not a typical question for someone being medically released. I have come to terms with it all and I'm now being proactive in my voc rehab which will start in Aug. I was told recently that I cannot be posted to JPSU until I start my voc rehab. But, I had been hoping for earlier. Sounds weird, but I want go there earlier so my unit is not left hanging without a replacement. This unit has been really good to me so, I would prefer that they are covered in the time (at least 6 weeks) prior to my voc rehab - the time I figure it will take to use my leave, move to a new location etc.
Does anyone know if you can be posted to JPSU before your voc rehab starts? Thanks

Offline mariomike

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    • The job.
Re: Timing question on being posted to JPSU
« Reply #73 on: December 08, 2016, 18:06:03 »
Does anyone know if you can be posted to JPSU before your voc rehab starts?

For reference, perhaps,

Timing question on being posted to JPSU


will be merged with,

JPSU IPSC Problems or Issues (merged)
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=84368.50
3 pages.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 18:11:55 by mariomike »

Offline Hockey22

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Re: JPSU IPSC Problems or Issues (merged)
« Reply #74 on: December 10, 2016, 20:57:24 »
I was posted to JPSU edmonton long before my Voc Rehab. I got to JPSU in October and I start transitioning out January through ILP.

Short answer; yes you can be posted before then.