2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[QV]

The attacks on PP are getting weaker.

Conservative leadership race descends into argument over Nanaimo bars

It all started Monday when leadership frontrunner Pierre Poilievre posted a video with Katrina, a Nanaimo woman who presented him with a box of Nanaimo bars

nationalpost.com

 

[brihard]

The attacks on PP are getting weaker.

Conservative leadership race descends into argument over Nanaimo bars

It all started Monday when leadership frontrunner Pierre Poilievre posted a video with Katrina, a Nanaimo woman who presented him with a box of Nanaimo bars

nationalpost.com

Yeah, that’s kind of up there with “Chretien’s helmet on backwards”. A slightly embarrassing gaffe, but I doubt anyone is seriously concerned about whether PP knows what goes into baking Nanaimo Bars. I suspect it’s more reflective of it having been a restively quieter few weeks in Canadian politics.

Parliament resumes in two weeks and I’m sure the theatrics and silliness will resume, while we wait to see what the autumn’s big controversy will be.

 

[Remius]

The attacks on PP are getting weaker.

Conservative leadership race descends into argument over Nanaimo bars

It all started Monday when leadership frontrunner Pierre Poilievre posted a video with Katrina, a Nanaimo woman who presented him with a box of Nanaimo bars

nationalpost.com

Demonstrates the state of the CPC right now. Good luck to PP in trying to unite it.

 

[Remius]

Current aggregate polling as the CPC closes in on selecting a leader.

338Canada Canada | Poll Analysis & Electoral Projections

www.338canada.com

 

[TacticalTea]

Yeah, that’s kind of up there with “Chretien’s helmet on backwards”. A slightly embarrassing gaffe, but I doubt anyone is seriously concerned about whether PP knows what goes into baking Nanaimo Bars. I suspect it’s more reflective of it having been a restively quieter few weeks in Canadian politics.

Parliament resumes in two weeks and I’m sure the theatrics and silliness will resume, while we wait to see what the autumn’s big controversy will be.

I watched the video. It didn't seem to me that he was saying Nanaimo bars are made with flour.

Just that flour, an important ingredient - amongst others - for the baker standing next to him who also happens to bake nanaimo bars, has gotten substantially more expensive.

 

[IKnowNothing]

PP on the other hand (why do people think he is a poor choice? Totally think people who say that are closet liberal apologist or NDP IMO) speaks very clearly on financial management, basic economics,

In general terms, he has no platform- I don't trust that. I don't see a vision for the country. I don't see a cogent plan with concrete, sensible, and implementable solutions to get us from here to an (as yet undefined) there

I see a collection of marketing slogans that resonate, with an unending barrage of pithy soundbites and fire and forget "ideas", with no structure or substance binding the two together or him to plan he has to defend.

I see a finance critic with no education or experience in finance, business, or economics.

I see a career MP campaigning as an outsider.

He may speak clearly on financial management and basic economics, but he does so in a way that often contradictory, misapplied, or superficial to the point of uselessness.

For example: Interest Rate Jacked While JustinFlation Forces Canadians To Take On More Debt Just To Get By
"I have a “common cents” plan to fight JustinFlation. As Prime Minister, I will

1. Axe the carbon tax; (I thought government spending got us into this? Tax reduction and spending have the same net impact. Reducing cost on an inelastic good frees more money to bid up elastic goods)
2. End the money-printing deficits; (Good plan long term, but what does this do for the supply side drivers of current inflation that those involved in manufacturing/ supply chain have been experiencing since Q2 2021?)
3. Restore the Bank of Canada’s independence with a Governor who will fight inflation;" (You meann by further rising interest rates, the action that catalyzed this hollow grievance piece?)

Harper may have endorsed him, but he's no Harper.

 

[Lumber]

PP on the other hand (why do people think he is a poor choice? Totally think people who say that are closet liberal apologist or NDP IMO)

Call me an elitist, but I do think that those with the right formal education combined with experience in the real world make better leaders. Skippy's has decent education for the job (international relations), but has no real world experience.

That being said, most of his positions would actually seem to be desirable to centrists (blue liberals and red Tories). He policies espouse fiscal responsibility, and he has no interest in opening any doors wrt social conservatism. Great!

The thing I think turns a lot of people off is that he is kind of like Joe Rogan. He might not share unsavory opinions, but he has no qualms about giving a platform (or outright support) for those with unsavory opinions. There is a lot of anger toward Trudeau, and a lot of it is justified, but a lot of the hooting and hollering is not based on actual facts (i.e. people complaining and blaming Trudeau for things Trudeau has nothing to do with). He should just stay away from those discussions/those people and keep his focus and energy on attacking Trudeau/LPC for the things they are actually responsible for.

Oh, and stupid slogans like "JustinFlation", like grow the f*** up and be serious for a minute.

 

[QV]

Comparing PP to one of the most popular podcasters in the world is not going to turn out to be a negative...

I'd suggest coining the name Justinflation is rather witty. A damn site better than just calling people who oppose you racists.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Comparing PP to one of the most popular podcasters in the world is not going to turn out to be a negative...

I'd suggest coining the name Justinflation is rather witty. A damn site better than just calling people who oppose you racists.

Justinflation doesn't even really make sense, given that Canada has lower inflation than the US and most of Europe. The countries that are doing better tend to have much more tightly controlled economies where inflation is being artificially repressed. So if the current government is doing better than average, without being communist, what exactly is the plan to have lower inflation?

Inflation Rate - G20 - By Country

We aren't an outlier here, but if you look at the UK, where the neo-Thatcher market force types are planning a $130B GBP utility relief cap, I don't see anyone with ideas to lower inflation by being more hands off.

Witty names with no real plan to do things differently is still the same hot air BS he is accusing JT of. If we are going to change the GoC, I would prefer it to be more than a swap of billboard colours and hairstyles.

 

[Remius]

I’ll wait until he’s officially the leader and what his policies beyond his current sloganism looks like.

But my hopes are far from high…

 

[IKnowNothing]

Witty names with no real plan to do things differently is still the same hot air BS he is accusing JT of. If we are going to change the GoC, I would prefer it to be more than a swap of billboard colours and hairstyles.

The two are more alike than any of PP's backers want to admit. I want better for Canada

 

[Brad Sallows]

I see a finance critic with no education or experience in finance, business, or economics.

Right, because education and experience are guarantors of high performance. It's why we've had such awesome ex-service people at the Defence table. Now, what do we do about PMs with thin resumes?

 

[IKnowNothing]

Right, because education and experience are guarantors of high performance.

There you go again, failing to quote properly. Leave user tags in. It's super simple stuff. It's the default after hitting the quote button. If everyone posted like you forums would be an incomprehensible mess.

They're not. But they'd certainly add credibility to his thoughts on those matters, both by their existence and by cutting down on the amount of BS he utters.

 

[Navy_Pete]

The two are more alike than any of PP's backers want to admit. I want better for Canada

This is sadly true, they seem to be different sides of the same empty, populist coin. It's unfortunate, because there are a number of genuinely competently people in the various parties, but I guess telling people the reality doesn't sell as much as a punchy slogan that rhymes or alliteration.

I'm not sure what the CPC equivalent to doing a yoga pose on a bench is, but if I see PP curling a haybale or something I think that might mark the moment of Canadian politics jumping the shark. Maybe PP will surprise me and have actual 'hows' behind his catchy slogans, but he's had more than enough time now to outline actual plans that I'm not hopeful.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Leave user tags in.

I don't care about the user's identity; I care about the idea expressed.

 

[suffolkowner]

In general terms, he has no platform- I don't trust that. I don't see a vision for the country. I don't see a cogent plan with concrete, sensible, and implementable solutions to get us from here to an (as yet undefined) there

I see a collection of marketing slogans that resonate, with an unending barrage of pithy soundbites and fire and forget "ideas", with no structure or substance binding the two together or him to plan he has to defend.

I see a finance critic with no education or experience in finance, business, or economics.

I see a career MP campaigning as an outsider.

He may speak clearly on financial management and basic economics, but he does so in a way that often contradictory, misapplied, or superficial to the point of uselessness.

For example: Interest Rate Jacked While JustinFlation Forces Canadians To Take On More Debt Just To Get By
"I have a “common cents” plan to fight JustinFlation. As Prime Minister, I will

1. Axe the carbon tax; (I thought government spending got us into this? Tax reduction and spending have the same net impact. Reducing cost on an inelastic good frees more money to bid up elastic goods)
2. End the money-printing deficits; (Good plan long term, but what does this do for the supply side drivers of current inflation that those involved in manufacturing/ supply chain have been experiencing since Q2 2021?)
3. Restore the Bank of Canada’s independence with a Governor who will fight inflation;" (You meann by further rising interest rates, the action that catalyzed this hollow grievance piece?)

Harper may have endorsed him, but he's no Harper.

What evidence is there that the BOC has not been initiating its own policies?
How does he square this with saying he would fire the Governor?

 

[Lumber]

Witty names with no real plan to do things differently is still the same hot air BS he is accusing JT of. If we are going to change the GoC, I would prefer it to be more than a swap of billboard colours and hairstyles.

I can't like this twice, so I'm quoting it then I'm going to like my own post.
.
.
#like

 

[Navy_Pete]

I'm actively looking for an alternative to the LPC, so this has been disappointing. I was onboard with O'Toole, but so far still looking. Will probably just wait until the actual election and go based on the local candidates, but at the moment PP is a mark against whoever they run in my area (which is likely to go LPC again regardless, even if they run an inanimate carbon rod or register a candidate by the name of Dees Nutz).

 

[ArmyRick]

I'm actively looking for an alternative to the LPC, so this has been disappointing. I was onboard with O'Toole, but so far still looking. Will probably just wait until the actual election and go based on the local candidates, but at the moment PP is a mark against whoever they run in my area (which is likely to go LPC again regardless, even if they run an inanimate carbon rod or register a candidate by the name of Dees Nutz).

Alternative to the LPC? Easy the Conservative Party of Canada. STOP looking for perfection in a political party and accept better than the status quo.

Or you could support the NDP, which lets face it under Singh is "Liberal Lite" or "The Other Liberals"

Or you could support The Green Party which would bring their voter base to like 8 people in total across the country.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Alternative to the LPC? Easy the Conservative Party of Canada. STOP looking for perfection in a political party and accept better than the status quo.

Or you could support the NDP, which lets face it under Singh is "Liberal Lite" or "The Other Liberals"

Or you could support The Green Party which would bring their voter base to like 8 people in total across the country.

The CPC under PP isn't a real alternative though. I'm not looking for perfection, just less bad.

Cryptobro of Freedom isn't really doing it for me, as the 'proposed' policies; aren't actually implementable.

'Justinflation' = Canada better than most of the G20 (and G7).
COVID mandates were similar across the globe, with a lower death/infection rate per capita against comparable countries.

Looking at what the world has gone through, Canada is coming up better than most, so it's a really unconvincing pitch.

Some of the slogans sounds good, but without a plan to achieve them, is just a slogan. I don't want perfection, just an actual idea of what he'll do differently in real terms. Right now he's offering himself as an alternative to JT (vice the LPC) without saying what he'll actually do differently. The guy has been nothing but an MP his professional life, so if he doesn't know what he can actually accomplish after 14 years as an MP, and what the PMO can't do, it's not really building confidence. If he's lying about things he knows he can't do, it's also not confidence building. His campaign claims aren't referenced, and fall apart when you poke at them.

Guy keeps going on about 'ruling elites', 'gatekeepers' and some other buzzwords, but he is one. He's proposing tax cuts to help Canadians; cool, lets see some high level details and see if they are for taxpayers or large businesses (who are already at one of the lowest effective tax rates in the G7).

Neither option is great, but his platform is basically meanigless promises that I don't see how he can keep without a really detailed plan, as some are pretty wide reaching. Aspirational is great, but it will take years to figure out these kind of details, and there is FA there now.