It is up to the gaining Career Manager and the Recruiting Staff to negotiate in odd cases where a person has demonstrated ability, but can't seem to step across the cattle gate that is the CFAT. If the occupation is really short, and the person offers tangible potential to fill a spot, the system can always offer a waiver. The trouble is that the CFAT is an indicator of learning ability. If the person is not going to be successful in classroom learning later on, notably of the type that helps him/her to get promoted, it means the person may have to be kept at a low rank for the duration.
Additionally, the reality is that there is almost always a sufficient pool of recruits from which to choose, so those who wish to serve, but who cannot meet the cut-off for the test, are essentially easily dismissed. It behooves us to take the "surest thing", and not gamble that we won't end up with a vacant seat in the classroom because the one person we felt bad for, or that we were quite sure would prevail, ends up a miserable failure. That hurts us, and it doesn't do the candidate much good. We do have standards, people do have to complete POs and written tests, and they must be able to generate PERs and such later on if they get to a supervisory position.
I hope I am making sense.
Additionally, the reality is that there is almost always a sufficient pool of recruits from which to choose, so those who wish to serve, but who cannot meet the cut-off for the test, are essentially easily dismissed. It behooves us to take the "surest thing", and not gamble that we won't end up with a vacant seat in the classroom because the one person we felt bad for, or that we were quite sure would prevail, ends up a miserable failure. That hurts us, and it doesn't do the candidate much good. We do have standards, people do have to complete POs and written tests, and they must be able to generate PERs and such later on if they get to a supervisory position.
I hope I am making sense.
I was never worried about passing the CFAT until I started reading the posts on here, now my confidence has gone down dramatically... I finished high school with the bare minimum required courses, pretty much just squeaked by, and that was 8 years ago. Is the test based off a pecentage?
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 110
A quote from the great (honest, this man is great) George Wallace:
Search CFAT and you will find tonnes of info on it. For instance:
Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT): Questions and Answers http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html
Just got the call for CFAT. http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34855.0.html
CFAT PREP COURSE http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/37725.0.html
CFAT Testing http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34069.0.html
CFAT didn't go so well.. http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32923.0.html
CFAT - Questions?? http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/30956.0.html
Hints to do well on the CFAT (aptitude test) http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/25548.0.html
.......and there are many more.
Believe me, your answer WILL be in there.
Good luck! You'll be fine!
Search CFAT and you will find tonnes of info on it. For instance:
Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT): Questions and Answers http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html
Just got the call for CFAT. http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34855.0.html
CFAT PREP COURSE http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/37725.0.html
CFAT Testing http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34069.0.html
CFAT didn't go so well.. http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32923.0.html
CFAT - Questions?? http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/30956.0.html
Hints to do well on the CFAT (aptitude test) http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/25548.0.html
.......and there are many more.
Believe me, your answer WILL be in there.
Good luck! You'll be fine!
- Reaction score
- 1,129
- Points
- 940
Also, your marks in high school may or may not have any bearing on the CFAT. Aptitude and knowledge, are, IMHO, two very different things. I also "just squeaked by" in high school. I did the (old) CFAT in '85 and scored quite well. I got to do the new CFAT in '98 (after having been out of school for 15 years) and scored in the 95th percentile in vocabulary and spatial and in the 90th on the math.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Practice basic maths calculation, multiplication, division, addition, substraction, fractions, decimals, percentages... stop being worried and start practicing... that is the only thing useful you can do!
good luck
good luck
A
aesop081
Guest
Can we merge this with the CFAT monster thread please ?
Was just wondering what kind of score you need for reg force Infantry. Some of you said 18/60 was minimum, so I would assume around 25/60? Just wondering, cause my math is horrible and i don't want this to screw me out of something I know I would be good at. Any help would be awesome! PS. I did search around for a thread that I could just post this in instead of spamming up another topic, but it seemed that all the other threads of this nature that I found in the search were all locked, sorry. Well of course as soon as I post this there would be a " JUST TOOK THE CFAT" Thread that I somehow looked over the first run through 
..
..
- Reaction score
- 3,104
- Points
- 1,160
Section 1: Spell name (correctly). Congratulations, you're in!
- Reaction score
- 25
- Points
- 430
: And so is this thread.
READ the CFAT threads.
If you had, you would have read several times that the SCORES are not publicized. You do the test and the CFRC will tell you whether or not you qualify. That is it.......Period.........Full Stop.
Another CFAT Topic LOCKED.
And so is this thread.READ the CFAT threads.
If you had, you would have read several times that the SCORES are not publicized. You do the test and the CFRC will tell you whether or not you qualify. That is it.......Period.........Full Stop.
Another CFAT Topic LOCKED.
[RESERVIST] So, you've heard it over 30 times in your military life. "CFAT". Now. To me, its hell. I'm really good with english and spatial skills...mathematical not so good. I've been in the military since January '08. BMQ/SQ Qualified. Currently in the Cook trade (not wanting), and currently working as a Veh. Tech (Class B). The irony is that Cook is the lowest on the test, and Veh. Tech is one of the highest. Funny how it works that way eh?
Anyway. So i failed the first time i took the CFAT by 1 mark. I was originally wanting Infantry with CHofO. That didn't turn out so well, my morale was shot, and i didn't have any other options except Cook and Steward. As i wanted neither at the time, i just walked away. The first time i took it I must have been about 16/17, still in High School. The second time around, i decided to retry it a year and a little later. I studied a bit the second time, clearly not as good as I should have so i failed the second time. My morale once again, shot, BUT, I took the Cook position to at least get my foot in the door and deal with the situation later on. I think it was a huge turning point in my life as it was a great strategy because this way I'm still able to do stuff inside the military. So since i joined as a Cook i've gotten BMQ/SQ done, as well as several taskings and exercises completed. As i've stated, I'm currently working as a Veh Tech on a Class B which is rather shocking considering its EME and i'm a SVC BN member as well as a "No-Hook" Private. I'd say as a Private, i lead a rather satisfactory life within the military.
The purpose of this thread was to inquire to methods of going abouts/around the CFAT. I know i'm a smart person, there is no doubt in my mind about it. I can't do written tests for crap, meaning the CFAT being an online test which to me translates as written, i failed to do well in. I'm definitely a hands-on learner. That's how i've done as well i have now. So, i'm wanting to roll over into Armored; Reg Force, but APARENTLY i'm going to have to redo the CFAT. Considering as to how I didn't do well the first/second time, i can't see me doing well now, and personally, if i fail again, its just going to be another mental thrashing and to be honest, it scares me, and it is probably the single most painful experience i've ever had in my life. Is there a way that i'm able to use whatever i've done in the military so far to present to CFRC and explain to them "I've done this and this and this, i work in one of the most difficult trades in the CF, is there a possibility of bypassing the CFAT?"
I come here because instead of going straight to the source, i want to hear other peoples thoughts first before i hear the real answer. People that i've met in the CF enjoy my company as I am always generating very positive morale all around, and that i am a dedicated, and hard worker.
On a sidenote, I would like to share my opinions on the CFAT. Before i start, its not b**ching or moaning. For me, it's expressing my thoughts because i'm not alone in these thoughts.
The CFAT (Canadian Forces Aptitude Test) is taken literally. It shouldn't be. (Pulled from Wikipedia): An aptitude is an innate, acquired or learned or developed component of a competency (being the others: knowledge, understanding and attitude) to do a certain kind of work at a certain level. The innate nature of aptitude is in contrast to achievement, which represents knowledge or ability that is gained.
The way I see it, is that whatever you get on the CFAT, should only be a guideline of what you can and can't do to give you a general idea of what you could possibly succeed at. Needless to say, i think the CFAT is entirely bogus. The CFAT not only lowers morale, but it prevents candidates from doing whatever it is they want to do. For example, I wanted infantry. Based on what i've done in the military so far, i've done the equivalent as that to a DP1 qualified Infanteer. I've had ZERO problems in both Infantry expectations as well as EME Veh Tech expectations. The CFAT cannot and should not limit you to what you can and cannot do. It just isn't fair and it isn't morally right to do it to people. As for me, i've always been bummed I didn't "pass" the CFAT no matter what i've done in the military. As a Cook right now, i don't want the trade. Not because it's no good, it's just nothing i want to do.
As for the Cook trade, it is VERY demanding and requires alot of mathematical skills as well as a large amount of responsibility to follow. No matter what score you get on the CFAT, it should not determine what you do. If you cannot do the trade, it will simply come down to how well you perform during your trades courses. As for me, i've seen what to expect as a cook, infanteer AND Armored. All of which i am able to do with absolute ease. Why can't I try the trades? Because i can't get on-screen math questions right. You can't use a calculator, which in most mathematical situations you get in, you have either a calculator or a friend to help you out. Either way, the problem will be solved one way or another. One thing is for sure, my math mark determined my trade between Infantry, and Cook. As a cook, good math skills are a MUST as you have to convert measurements which can be very tricky. The only time you'll frequently need math (to my knowledge) is for Navigation which I believe you don't do very often . Granted its great and handy to know how to Nav, but anyone can learn it, no matter how strong your skills are.
Lets say you only qualify to be a cook, and you fail at it. The test said that you could do it. Yes, bold statement, but, then again, if you're not able to do infantry, it's because you don't meet the mental capacity. Then why did you fail at the Cook trade even while you were legitimately trying, (because you could say that failure didn't try at all. Lets assume hypothetically he tried his hardest).
So with that said, if you can't get that, why offer any trades at all? You can't fail it per-se. You can just not get what trade you want. But Cook and Steward are ALWAYS available. Why isn't any other trade?
Financial. I'm not a money guy, so admitting, i can't go too far into detail about this part. Based on what i've heard from other people in regards to my argument, "they" state that it's a money issue. They don't want to train people if they're going to fail. As far as i'm concerned, I don't care what you do, any trade you can fail/succeed at, no matter how smart you are.
If there is any input that you fine members of this forum would like to add, please feel free. I'm all ears.
P.S. Do you need to be QL3 qualified in the current trade before switching to the next? (This happened to a friend of mine.)
Anyway. So i failed the first time i took the CFAT by 1 mark. I was originally wanting Infantry with CHofO. That didn't turn out so well, my morale was shot, and i didn't have any other options except Cook and Steward. As i wanted neither at the time, i just walked away. The first time i took it I must have been about 16/17, still in High School. The second time around, i decided to retry it a year and a little later. I studied a bit the second time, clearly not as good as I should have so i failed the second time. My morale once again, shot, BUT, I took the Cook position to at least get my foot in the door and deal with the situation later on. I think it was a huge turning point in my life as it was a great strategy because this way I'm still able to do stuff inside the military. So since i joined as a Cook i've gotten BMQ/SQ done, as well as several taskings and exercises completed. As i've stated, I'm currently working as a Veh Tech on a Class B which is rather shocking considering its EME and i'm a SVC BN member as well as a "No-Hook" Private. I'd say as a Private, i lead a rather satisfactory life within the military.
The purpose of this thread was to inquire to methods of going abouts/around the CFAT. I know i'm a smart person, there is no doubt in my mind about it. I can't do written tests for crap, meaning the CFAT being an online test which to me translates as written, i failed to do well in. I'm definitely a hands-on learner. That's how i've done as well i have now. So, i'm wanting to roll over into Armored; Reg Force, but APARENTLY i'm going to have to redo the CFAT. Considering as to how I didn't do well the first/second time, i can't see me doing well now, and personally, if i fail again, its just going to be another mental thrashing and to be honest, it scares me, and it is probably the single most painful experience i've ever had in my life. Is there a way that i'm able to use whatever i've done in the military so far to present to CFRC and explain to them "I've done this and this and this, i work in one of the most difficult trades in the CF, is there a possibility of bypassing the CFAT?"
I come here because instead of going straight to the source, i want to hear other peoples thoughts first before i hear the real answer. People that i've met in the CF enjoy my company as I am always generating very positive morale all around, and that i am a dedicated, and hard worker.
On a sidenote, I would like to share my opinions on the CFAT. Before i start, its not b**ching or moaning. For me, it's expressing my thoughts because i'm not alone in these thoughts.
The CFAT (Canadian Forces Aptitude Test) is taken literally. It shouldn't be. (Pulled from Wikipedia): An aptitude is an innate, acquired or learned or developed component of a competency (being the others: knowledge, understanding and attitude) to do a certain kind of work at a certain level. The innate nature of aptitude is in contrast to achievement, which represents knowledge or ability that is gained.
The way I see it, is that whatever you get on the CFAT, should only be a guideline of what you can and can't do to give you a general idea of what you could possibly succeed at. Needless to say, i think the CFAT is entirely bogus. The CFAT not only lowers morale, but it prevents candidates from doing whatever it is they want to do. For example, I wanted infantry. Based on what i've done in the military so far, i've done the equivalent as that to a DP1 qualified Infanteer. I've had ZERO problems in both Infantry expectations as well as EME Veh Tech expectations. The CFAT cannot and should not limit you to what you can and cannot do. It just isn't fair and it isn't morally right to do it to people. As for me, i've always been bummed I didn't "pass" the CFAT no matter what i've done in the military. As a Cook right now, i don't want the trade. Not because it's no good, it's just nothing i want to do.
As for the Cook trade, it is VERY demanding and requires alot of mathematical skills as well as a large amount of responsibility to follow. No matter what score you get on the CFAT, it should not determine what you do. If you cannot do the trade, it will simply come down to how well you perform during your trades courses. As for me, i've seen what to expect as a cook, infanteer AND Armored. All of which i am able to do with absolute ease. Why can't I try the trades? Because i can't get on-screen math questions right. You can't use a calculator, which in most mathematical situations you get in, you have either a calculator or a friend to help you out. Either way, the problem will be solved one way or another. One thing is for sure, my math mark determined my trade between Infantry, and Cook. As a cook, good math skills are a MUST as you have to convert measurements which can be very tricky. The only time you'll frequently need math (to my knowledge) is for Navigation which I believe you don't do very often . Granted its great and handy to know how to Nav, but anyone can learn it, no matter how strong your skills are.
Lets say you only qualify to be a cook, and you fail at it. The test said that you could do it. Yes, bold statement, but, then again, if you're not able to do infantry, it's because you don't meet the mental capacity. Then why did you fail at the Cook trade even while you were legitimately trying, (because you could say that failure didn't try at all. Lets assume hypothetically he tried his hardest).
So with that said, if you can't get that, why offer any trades at all? You can't fail it per-se. You can just not get what trade you want. But Cook and Steward are ALWAYS available. Why isn't any other trade?
Financial. I'm not a money guy, so admitting, i can't go too far into detail about this part. Based on what i've heard from other people in regards to my argument, "they" state that it's a money issue. They don't want to train people if they're going to fail. As far as i'm concerned, I don't care what you do, any trade you can fail/succeed at, no matter how smart you are.
If there is any input that you fine members of this forum would like to add, please feel free. I'm all ears.
P.S. Do you need to be QL3 qualified in the current trade before switching to the next? (This happened to a friend of mine.)
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 360
FatalSinz said:
I'd take issue with that - but be that as it may.
I first considered removing your post - and depending on where this goes, I still may.
However - in amongst all the learned hypothesizing regarding the legitimacy of the CFAT test, you do ask some valid questions.
Get this, however - you cannot "Bypass" the CFAT - and attempting to do so is just a waste of your time - so stop trying and turn your considerable efforts to something more productive. There are many threads here regarding how to prepare oneself for the CFAT - have a read. If you can't find them (they're here in the "Recruiting Office" forum), let me know and I'll give you a hand (finding the threads - not prepping for the CFAT).
Roy Harding
Milnet.ca Staff
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 430
There lots of other CFAT threads going...I really don't see why we need another. locked usual caveats.
milnet.Ca Staff
milnet.Ca Staff
Hey everybody,
I'm just in the process of joining the army reserves in BC and I have a couple questions about training.
1. As I understand, there are summer and weekend BMQ courses offered. Are they usually run at regular intervals so I could start in Jan or Feb sometime?
2. How long does the weekend course run and can you do SQ on weekends as well?
3. Are the courses easy to balance with Uni?
I tried to contact the recruiter at the unit I'm joining but I don't get an answer. I also searched and found some answers but this is what I have left.
Any answers on this would be very helpful
I'm just in the process of joining the army reserves in BC and I have a couple questions about training.
1. As I understand, there are summer and weekend BMQ courses offered. Are they usually run at regular intervals so I could start in Jan or Feb sometime?
2. How long does the weekend course run and can you do SQ on weekends as well?
3. Are the courses easy to balance with Uni?
I tried to contact the recruiter at the unit I'm joining but I don't get an answer. I also searched and found some answers but this is what I have left.
Any answers on this would be very helpful
M
MikeL
Guest
1.) There is usually a weekend BMQ course ran during the fall/winter and a couple serials ran in the summer. If you join to late an miss the weekend BMQ course than if you can you would do the summer course, unless you wait a year an do the next weekend BMQ course. - As for how many serials are run, it is dependent if they can get enough Soldiers to staff the course, aswell as have enough recruits course loaded so they can run the course.
2.) Reserve BMQ is 22(?) Training Days. As for weekend SQ, I believe there have been courses run, but I don't know how often or if it is still done or even which Reserve Brigades do it.
3.) That would depend on you, a lot of people can manage Reserves with School an a Civvie job some have difficulties.
Keep trying to call the Reserve unit Recruiter an/or go to the unit on a parade night, ask the Recruiter questions an if you can ask some of the Soldiers in the unit whatever questions you may have.
2.) Reserve BMQ is 22(?) Training Days. As for weekend SQ, I believe there have been courses run, but I don't know how often or if it is still done or even which Reserve Brigades do it.
3.) That would depend on you, a lot of people can manage Reserves with School an a Civvie job some have difficulties.
Keep trying to call the Reserve unit Recruiter an/or go to the unit on a parade night, ask the Recruiter questions an if you can ask some of the Soldiers in the unit whatever questions you may have.
-Skeletor- said:
Thanks for the reply, Skeletor
If I can get on a weekend BMQ that would be preferable with my work and such but anything is possible. Is it a big problem if I refuse the summer course and wait until fall or is that a pain in the ass for the rest of the regiment?
Thanks
- Reaction score
- 566
- Points
- 1,140
A reserve unit will plan their training schedule well in advance based on their mandate and anticipated numbers for each course. It is unlikely a unit will be able to offer or even wish to offer all courses in a given training year. If you do not have a valid reason for refusing a career course can set yourself up
for administrative or training problems later on. Remember, what you personally consider a valid reason, might not be accepted by your unit.
for administrative or training problems later on. Remember, what you personally consider a valid reason, might not be accepted by your unit.
