Author Topic: Seeking an excuse to spend Defence $$ on a Bombardier plane  (Read 61280 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MarkOttawa

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 79,215
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 6,867
  • Two birthdays
    • The 3Ds Blog
Re: Seeking an excuse to spend Defence $$ on a Bombardier plane
« Reply #150 on: February 13, 2020, 15:01:48 »
The fast goodbye continues, another post:

Quote
Bombardier Bombing Out of Airliners–Rail too?
https://mark3ds.wordpress.com/2020/02/13/bombardier-bombing-out-of-airliners-rail-too/

Mark
Ottawa
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline Spencer100

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 14,675
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 538
Re: Seeking an excuse to spend Defence $$ on a Bombardier plane
« Reply #151 on: February 13, 2020, 15:22:56 »
It is sounding more like an asset sale then a restructuring.

Best news is that we will no longer have to hear about Bombardier get government handouts!

Offline MarkOttawa

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 79,215
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 6,867
  • Two birthdays
    • The 3Ds Blog
Re: Seeking an excuse to spend Defence $$ on a Bombardier plane
« Reply #152 on: February 13, 2020, 15:47:32 »
Spener100: No, but Airbus, Textron, Alstom might be putting the screws on--Textron-owned Bell Helicopters gets lots of gov't money as does PWC.

Mark
Ottawa
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline CBH99

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 31,690
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 900
Re: Seeking an excuse to spend Defence $$ on a Bombardier plane
« Reply #153 on: February 13, 2020, 16:12:20 »
I know this may sound groundless, and this truly is my own personal opinion.

The CEO & senior management of Bombardier, in my opinion, should be metaphorically burned at the stake.  Screw them for taking what was once a Canadian icon, and driving it into the ground.


There's a ton of examples, too many to list here.  But how can you manage to drive a company to near bankruptcy, multiple times - only to be bailed out by massive government bailouts - and still drive it into the ground??


How hard is it to build rail cars?  This shouldn't be a troubled division.  This should be a streamlined division & a well oiled machine at this point.  We aren't asking them to build flying subway trains using negative gravity...we're asking them to build technology from the 1960's, on tracks that were laid around the same time.  How can it be this challenging after 60yrs?


I realize the Canadian government isn't a huge buyer of aircraft.  16 SAR planes here, 4 Twin Otters there, etc etc.  Occassionally, a decently big guy of F-18's or C-130's - but overall, the CAF isn't a huge or consistent customer of aircraft.

That being said...one of the nice things about our complete inability to purchase anything quickly outside of a UOR is that industry has LOTS OF LEAD TIME, and know exactly what we are looking for when we do decide to purchase.  (Relatively speaking.)

 Again...how hard is it to take an aircraft that meets the performance specs, and modify it with a rear ramp & SAR features?  Since Brazil, Spain, Ireland, and a few other countries are purchasing the C-295 -- that's an aircraft Bombardier could have had a competitor for, but couldn't be bothered. 


Just frustrates me as a Canadian to see a Canadian icon managed so poorly that it's dying an unnecessary death...and the management of the company don't seem to be held accountable, despite our tax dollars bailing them out repeatedly.  (Tax dollars they also used to give themselves bonuses...  :pullhair: )
Fortune Favours the Bold...and the Smart.

Wouldn't it be nice to have some Boondock Saints kicking around?

Offline YZT580

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 27,580
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 789
Re: Seeking an excuse to spend Defence $$ on a Bombardier plane
« Reply #154 on: February 13, 2020, 16:49:19 »
They did have a competitive aircraft: the buffalo but they left it in the 60's and then sold the whole thing to what was basically an airframe restoration company. 

Offline daftandbarmy

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 268,535
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 14,685
  • The Older I Get, The Better I Was
Re: Seeking an excuse to spend Defence $$ on a Bombardier plane
« Reply #155 on: February 13, 2020, 17:28:40 »

“Success isn’t guaranteed, but failure is certain if you aren’t truly emotionally invested in your work.”

— Biz Stone
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline MarkOttawa

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 79,215
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 6,867
  • Two birthdays
    • The 3Ds Blog
Re: Seeking an excuse to spend Defence $$ on a Bombardier plane
« Reply #156 on: February 14, 2020, 10:46:58 »
The fast goodbye continues, another post:

Mark
Ottawa

Demise of Bombardier nicely summed up:

Quote
Bombardier drama may be coming to a close
...
The problem with Bombardier is that it was always more of a wannabe success than a real success. Canadians loved the story of the scrappy inventor from rural Quebec starting off making snowmobiles and his heirs turning the firm into a multinational making jet aircraft, water-bombers, subway trains etc.

Much of that growth came through opportunistic buying of companies nobody else wanted — Canadair in Montreal, de Havilland in Toronto, Short Brothers in Belfast, Adtranz in Germany — usually combined with Bombardier management’s unparalleled ability to extract money from governments desperate to maintain jobs and get under-performing assets off their books.

Yet seldom during its history, did Bombardier really manage to turn these disparate,  individual assets into a cohesive, consistently profitable company. Maybe it’s the problem of always looking for a bargain. The whole never ended up being greater than the sum of its parts.

Bombardier did manage to stretch the Canadair Challenger business jet into a passenger aircraft and create a whole class of regional aircraft. But like RIM’s invention of the Blackberry, one product was not enough to build a company with long-term success.

Bombardier always managed to promise more than it could actually deliver. It wasn’t enough to bet the future of its commercial aviation business on the brand-new C Series, it did so at the same time that it was developing a new Global 7500 business jet and the smaller Learjet 85. The C Series was 2 ½ years late and way over budget. The Global Express was also late. And the Learjet 85 had to be dropped entirely.

Back on earth, the company has been no better in its transportation unit, consistently angering clients at Toronto Transit Commission, Swiss Railways, Deutsche Bahn and New York’s Metropolitan Transportation Authority for delivering rolling stock that was late and full of bugs. Great to land the contracts and have an impressive order backlog but if you can’t deliver the merchandise, maybe you’re in the wrong business...
https://ipolitics.ca/2020/02/14/bombardier-drama-may-be-coming-to-a-close/

Mark Collins
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline Czech_pivo

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 5,615
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 310
Re: Seeking an excuse to spend Defence $$ on a Bombardier plane
« Reply #157 on: February 14, 2020, 10:57:51 »
"Maybe it’s the problem of always looking for a bargain."

But isn't this the typical Canadian modis operandi?

Constantly nickel and dime someone to buy/deliver the bare bones product and then run that product into the ground over 35-50+yrs, constantly bringing it back from the dead with numerous 'enhancements' and 'extended refits'.

As I've said previously on here, Canadians are by far the cheapest SOB's in the world.  Why would our companies be any different?

Offline Dolphin_Hunter

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 18,380
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,385
Re: Seeking an excuse to spend Defence $$ on a Bombardier plane
« Reply #158 on: February 14, 2020, 11:57:41 »
I don’t think we are cheap.  We continually over spend on projects for the sake of “jobs”.

If we were cheap we’d be buying ships made in Korea.

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 152,660
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,852
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca