Author Topic: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols  (Read 5899 times)

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Despite not being 'allowed' to wear our Sqn Heraldic crests and crew patches, morale patches for ROTO crews ended up happening.   :tsktsk: by the ATF...meh.  If you're worried about patches as the ATF Comd level, you don't have much to actually worry about OR  you're worrying about the wrong things IMO.  Personally, I'd go with the latter choice in the case of that OP.
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Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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I’m a fan of different patches, for years we (LRP Acoustians) wore the “Ping Monkey” patch, no issues. Something that we sarcastically designed for ourselves.

However some *** jockey felt it demeaning (so don’t wear the ******* thing) and eventually we (at least in 14 Wing) were told to take it off.  Good thing too, because morale is high among the 6 Acoustians here on the wing.  Death by a 1000 paper cuts.

 

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Stop assuming I'm a man!

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Good thing too, because morale is high among the 6 Acoustians here on the wing.  Death by a 1000 paper cuts.

Wait...didn't you hear?  You just need to 'manage your time more effectively'.  6 is plenty!  PLENTY!!
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Junior
Officer
Protection
Agency

Ha!  That's a good one!
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Offline daftandbarmy

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On various exercises it was always fun to 'capture' Enfor and take them direct to tactical questioning where any badges or tattoos they were wearing were immediately put to use in extracting information from them.

Subsequently, when I was conducting TQ on the right side of the table, it was always easier to get information from those we were questioning if they were sporting various badges and tattoos.

And then they went on the real Interrogators (shudder). 

POWs Never Have a Nice Day ;)
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Offline Jarnhamar

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I've never been a real fan of morale patches.  Overseas I found platoon patches (skull, rams head etc..) good for morale and commeradry. Especially when you were legitimately facing loosing a family member every day. Outside of that meh. I'm proud enough wearing the huge Velcro flag on my arm (and dealing with the drama of getting caught wearing an IR flag on my rain jacket outside of the field)

I can't speak for everyone but what bothered us in the past when we were told morale patches were banned (and hilariously faced being RTUd from a war zone for being caught wearing a patch) was that higher up's and people who didn't routinely leave the wire seemed to be festooned with all types of flashy morale and adhoc unit patches.  There was definitely a double standard.

"Well they were authorized". Yea they authorized themselves I think. 

Morales patches are elitist in the CAF.

I sorta get why theyre targeted by the chain of command, say as in the Australian military. Government wants the military to be PC and public friendly as possible. It makes people happy to see flashy parades and obedient soldiers on display.  On the other hand we're taking young adults and teaching them to violently kill (I'd go so far as to suggest massacre) human beings they've never met. Who surely have families or even play the same Xbox games as these guys and girls.  I'm not educated in this stuff but I would guess there's some kind of psychological relationship (defense?) associated with skull and death iconography and the job we ultimately do or support doing.

When you read the OP they're talking about specifically banning Spartan helmets among other stuff. I think THAT highlights that this move is less about skull/death=bad and more about being politically correct and less visually "warrior" minded.  If you're going to ban a helmet icon you may as well ban swords daggers spears and shields.

*editing some grammar
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 19:47:49 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline Loachman

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On the other hand we're talking young adults and teaching them to violently kill (I'd go so far as to suggest massacre) human beings they've never met.

"We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "frig" on their airplanes because it's obscene!"
- Col Kurtz, Apocalypse Now

Offline SupersonicMax

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I believe you need to show some humility in taking life in the conduct of your duty.  It may bring professional satisfaction but it shouldn't be something you yell for everyone to hear (and those kind of patches scream that). Wear them in the unit lines on a Friday and at the Mess that night.  Take them off when you go in public.  Rare are the non-military people that actually think it is "cool".
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Offline jollyjacktar

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In today's PC, Kumbaya, SJW, Snowflake, Sunny Ways world, sure.  Until, the day there's a real threat to their rose coloured glasses world.

Go back 70 years and John Q Public thought it was very cool indeed. 

I don't recall seeing a load of tears when Bin Laden painted his bedroon in a new colour called "a hint of brains".

https://youtu.be/yP1vSIOmCc4
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 22:02:20 by jollyjacktar »
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Offline SupersonicMax

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If you think the general public thinks killing is cool, think again.  I don't know too many people that take personnal satisfaction into killing.

Offline jollyjacktar

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That is not exactly what l meant to say, my apologies. 

I have re-organized my previous post to make it clearer.

Also, most people will thankfully never experience killing an enemy, so why would they take personal satisfaction?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 22:05:52 by jollyjacktar »
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Offline mariomike

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Go back 70 years and John Q Public thought it was very cool indeed. 

Some apparently did. I won't post the picture as it may be offensive to some. But, it was Life Magazine's Picture of the Week in 1944.

QUOTE

"May 22, 1944 Life Magazine Picture of the Week, "Arizona war worker writes her Navy boyfriend a thank-you-note for the Jap skull he sent her. The image depicts a young blond at a desk gazing at a skull. The caption says: "When he said goodbye two years ago to Natalie Nickerson, 20, a war worker of Phoenix, Ariz., a big, handsome Navy lieutenant promised her a Jap. Last week Natalie received a human skull, autographed by her lieutenant and 13 friends, and inscribed: "This is a good Jap – a dead one picked up on the New Guinea beach." Natalie, surprised at the gift, named it Tojo."

END QUOTE
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 23:57:17 by mariomike »

Offline daftandbarmy

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Some apparently did. I won't post the picture as it may be offensive to some. But, it was Life Magazine's Picture of the Week in 1944.

QUOTE

"May 22, 1944 Life Magazine Picture of the Week, "Arizona war worker writes her Navy boyfriend a thank-you-note for the Jap skull he sent her. The image depicts a young blond at a desk gazing at a skull. The caption says: "When he said goodbye two years ago to Natalie Nickerson, 20, a war worker of Phoenix, Ariz., a big, handsome Navy lieutenant promised her a Jap. Last week Natalie received a human skull, autographed by her lieutenant and 13 friends, and inscribed: "This is a good Jap – a dead one picked up on the New Guinea beach." Natalie, surprised at the gift, named it Tojo."

END QUOTE

Of course, Wikipedia has an article on this subject, complete with body part photos:

In 1984, Japanese soldiers' remains were repatriated from the Mariana Islands. Roughly 60 percent were missing their skulls.[24] Likewise it has been reported that many of the Japanese remains on Iwo Jima are missing their skulls.[24] It is possible that the souvenir collection of remains continued also in the immediate post-war period.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_mutilation_of_Japanese_war_dead

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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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I've never been a real fan of morale patches.  Overseas I found platoon patches (skull, rams head etc..) good for morale and commeradry. Especially when you were legitimately facing loosing a family member every day. Outside of that meh. I'm proud enough wearing the huge Velcro flag on my arm (and dealing with the drama of getting caught wearing an IR flag on my rain jacket outside of the field)

I can't speak for everyone but what bothered us in the past when we were told morale patches were banned (and hilariously faced being RTUd from a war zone for being caught wearing a patch) was that higher up's and people who didn't routinely leave the wire seemed to be festooned with all types of flashy morale and adhoc unit patches.  There was definitely a double standard.

"Well they were authorized". Yea they authorized themselves I think. 

Morales patches are elitist in the CAF.

I sorta get why theyre targeted by the chain of command, say as in the Australian military. Government wants the military to be PC and public friendly as possible. It makes people happy to see flashy parades and obedient soldiers on display.  On the other hand we're taking young adults and teaching them to violently kill (I'd go so far as to suggest massacre) human beings they've never met. Who surely have families or even play the same Xbox games as these guys and girls.  I'm not educated in this stuff but I would guess there's some kind of psychological relationship (defense?) associated with skull and death iconography and the job we ultimately do or support doing.

When you read the OP they're talking about specifically banning Spartan helmets among other stuff. I think THAT highlights that this move is less about skull/death=bad and more about being politically correct and less visually "warrior" minded.  If you're going to ban a helmet icon you may as well ban swords daggers spears and shields.

*editing some grammar

I knew of a couple of fellas who you probably know who had K.A.T. Tattooed in big black letters on their arms. 

I remember asking: what does KAT stand for?

"It stands for 'Kill All Taliban' Sir"

The Army is filled with all types.  I wouldn't go so far as to ban all patches, rather I would use discretion which I think is something we tend to not do very well.

Offline mariomike

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It is possible that the souvenir collection of remains continued also in the immediate post-war period.

I also read that during that period some wives insisted they get rid of their "souvenirs".

Some got thrown out of car windows along the side of the road. The finders would notify police, police would have to start a homicide investigation which would remain an unsolved mystery.

Offline jollyjacktar

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you....

Sorry, l couldn't resist.    :D
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Humphrey said it very well. The CAF does not do “discretion “ very well at all.  Decisions are made by committees and COs have little leeway in anything.
Freedom Isn't Free   "Never Shall I Fail My Brothers"

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Offline Journeyman

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Getting back to tattoos, it's difficult to legislate 'stupid.'  Some ink seems pretty awesome.....when you're a teenager, think you're the hardest soldier alive, and testosterone passes for thought.

I later went through a phase where I was going to give being a grown-up a try, and wanted to get rid of one tattoo.  The laser removal was pricy and didn't take out the green ink, leaving a couple of small, unusual 'spots.' 

I've gotten past that phase too (being a grown-up was apparently not my strong suit), and I still have three tattoos that I can't imagine would cause offence.

The advice I gave my boys when they were young and wanted tattoos (being underage, I had to sign for them):
1.  Nowhere where it shows unless you want to show it;
2.  Avoid words and names (at their age, it would likely be transient);
3.  (Out of fear/common sense), they  had to tell their mother.



Now, people who take normal-sized piercings and turn them into gaping 1" holes you want to put a padlock through......   ::)

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Offline Dimsum

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Now, people who take normal-sized piercings and turn them into gaping 1" holes you want to put a padlock through......   ::)

Well, you can't lose your keys...
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Journeyman

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Ref the MilPoints:  but you weren't a 16-year old when you got that tattoo done;  ignoring advice #2 was self-inflicted. 


ps - don't become an out of shape old man, otherwise the text will be in Comic Sans font.  Then  it would be a bad tatt.   ;D 

Offline Good2Golf

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...Now, people who take normal-sized piercings and turn them into gaping 1" holes you want to put a padlock through......   ::)

...or 6"?


Offline Humphrey Bogart

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...or 6"?



This person is merely a professional taste tester.  That plate is the perfect size to hold a variety of Tapas.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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That should have been insightful and not neutral, but sage advice never the less!

Thought might I recommend avoiding francophone tattoo artists when writing english words as well  ;D

When I see weirdo tattoos I try not to be too critical and think maybe that's something they needed at some point in their life but that KAT tattoo is just retarded. Buddy definitely needs to think of a better cover story for that one.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 10:57:34 by Jarnhamar »
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