Author Topic: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case  (Read 47612 times)

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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #650 on: March 16, 2019, 17:35:42 »
Quote
SNC-Lavalin is undeniably an important company in Canada. But its importance has been shrinking, at least in terms of employment. Since February, 2012, when SNC-Lavalin first disclosed it had discovered financial irregularities it couldn’t explain, namely undocumented payments later discovered to be bribes, the company’s payroll in Canada has declined by more than half, to roughly 8,500 people from 20,000. It currently employs about 2,500 people in Quebec, including 700 at its Montreal head office. Five times as many SNC-Lavalin employees work outside the country as in it.


International Employees = 6x 8,500 = 51,000
Canadian Employees = 8,500
Quebec Employees = 2,500
Montreal Employees (HQ) = 700

Actual Jobs at risk - IMHO - 700

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-justice-jobs-and-snc-lavalin-how-much-does-the-engineering-giant/



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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #651 on: March 16, 2019, 18:28:05 »
International Employees = 6x 8,500 = 51,000
Canadian Employees = 8,500
Quebec Employees = 2,500
Montreal Employees (HQ) = 700

Actual Jobs at risk - IMHO - 700

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-justice-jobs-and-snc-lavalin-how-much-does-the-engineering-giant/
And if I were working for the company wanting to apply max QC pressure, I'd use the 2500+700 = 3200 figure for "here's how much it'll cost you in QC" card.
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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #652 on: March 16, 2019, 19:25:21 »
And just spotted this @ #NotYetBoughtMedia* Globe & Mail
Quote
Trudeau, PMO staff hired outside lawyers in case RCMP probes SNC-Lavalin affair
March 15, 2019

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and senior officials in his office have retained outside legal counsel in case of an RCMP investigation into allegations of political interference in the criminal prosecution of SNC-Lavalin Group.

Mr. Trudeau’s communications director, Cameron Ahmad, told The Globe and Mail on Friday that Treasury Board rules allow for hiring of outside counsel when government officials are either sued, threatened with a suit, charged with an offence or under threat of being named in a legal action.

“As per the Treasury Board Policy on Legal Assistance and Indemnification, counsel has been retained to advise on the matter in question,” Mr. Ahmad said in an e-mail.

Mr. Ahmad would not provide further details or reveal the names of the law firms retained by Mr. Trudeau and staff in the Prime Minister’s Office, in response to a formal request last month for an RCMP investigation from Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer.

A senior government official, who was not authorized to speak publicly about the matter, said an outside law firm has been hired to represent Mr. Trudeau, and another law firm will handle staff in the Prime Minister’s Office.

The second law firm will act on behalf of Mr. Trudeau’s chief of staff, Katie Telford, Quebec adviser Mathieu Bouchard and senior adviser Elder Marques, the official said.

Former attorney-general Jody Wilson-Raybould has said the three individuals, along with former principal secretary Gerald Butts and Privy Council Clerk Michael Wernick as well as the Prime Minister, put repeated pressure on her to negotiate a deferred prosecution agreement with SNC-Lavalin.

Mr. Wernick, the country’s top bureaucrat, told the House of Commons justice committee last week that he had “retained personal counsel because of Mr. Scheer’s letter to the RCMP.”

The RCMP has said it is reviewing Mr. Scheer’s letter and added in a statement Friday that it “generally does not confirm or deny if an investigation is under way unless criminal charges are laid.”

The Conservative Leader wrote to RCMP Commissioner Brenda Lucki on Feb. 28 to request a criminal investigation into the Liberal government’s efforts to help the Quebec-based engineering and construction giant, which is facing bribery and fraud charges related to allegedly corrupt dealings in Libya ...
More @ link - if you want to swim thru the TB policy in question, be my guest :)

* - We'll (hopefully) find out more about who's bought by how much @ budget time later this month.
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Offline FJAG

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #653 on: March 16, 2019, 21:28:37 »
And just spotted this @ #NotYetBoughtMedia* Globe & MailMore @ link - if you want to swim thru the TB policy in question, be my guest :)

* - We'll (hopefully) find out more about who's bought by how much @ budget time later this month.

Just skimmed through it but missed the part where it says they can deny financial support for lawyers for alleged misconduct against the Liberals a la Norman but have to grant it for alleged misconduct by Liberals.  :stirpot:

Maybe someone else found it.  :pop:

 :cheers:
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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #654 on: March 16, 2019, 23:23:12 »
The reason the "job losses" red herring is raised is because the company may be ineligible to bid on federal contracts for a long time.

The government is free to identify all the planned work that was going to be sole-source awarded to SNC.  For the rest, some other bidder will fill the gap.  As long as the planned work goes forward, no jobs are lost.  If SNC has less work, maybe it sheds people.  The successful bidders either have spare capacity on hand (in which case, their jobs would be "lost" if SNC won the contracts) or will need to hire...perhaps from the same pool of people shed by SNC.

The key to "jobs lost" isn't whether SNC is eligible to bid.  The key is whether work (private or public) goes ahead or not.  The "jobs lost" are the ones which would have been filled on cancelled and delayed projects. If an accusation is to be leveled, level it against people who block projects or don't do enough to ensure projects go ahead.
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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #655 on: March 17, 2019, 10:29:12 »
Just skimmed through it but missed the part where it says they can deny financial support for lawyers for alleged misconduct against the Liberals a la Norman but have to grant it for alleged misconduct by Liberals.  :stirpot:

Maybe someone else found it.  :pop:

 :cheers:
There IS a bit about recovering funds if wrongdoing is found, or retroactive payments -- all good stuff :)
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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #656 on: March 18, 2019, 00:32:28 »
International Employees = 6x 8,500 = 51,000
Canadian Employees = 8,500
Quebec Employees = 2,500
Montreal Employees (HQ) = 700

Actual Jobs at risk - IMHO - 700

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-justice-jobs-and-snc-lavalin-how-much-does-the-engineering-giant/

But those are most likley well paid Liberal supporters and donors, so it's "Double ungood"

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #657 on: March 18, 2019, 18:35:25 »
Does this count towards the SNC job losses?


Quote
Another of the key Canadian government officials at the center of a controversy over SNC-Lavalin Group Inc. is leaving his post.

Michael Wernick announced his retirement Monday as clerk of the privy council, the highest-ranking position in Canada’s civil service and a key aide to Justin Trudeau. The prime minister named Ian Shugart, currently deputy minister of foreign affairs, to replace him.

Wernick said in a letter to Trudeau that “recent events” led him to conclude he couldn’t hold his post during the election campaign this fall. “It is now apparent that there is no path for me to have a relationship of mutual trust and respect with the leaders of the opposition parties,” he said, citing the need for impartiality on the issue of potential foreign interference. The exact date of his departure is unclear.



https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/canada-s-top-bureaucrat-michael-wernick-to-retire-amid-snc-scandal-1.1230681



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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #658 on: March 18, 2019, 20:23:18 »
Trudeau is giving his loyal soldiers the Jason Bourne Treadstone treatment.
Well, he WAS appointed, if you believe this account by #NotYetBoughtMedia from 2016, to "come up with a better process to pick his own permanent replacement as the country’s top bureaucrat".

Just took him a bit longer than planned to find a replacement, I guess ...
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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #659 on: March 18, 2019, 20:23:37 »
I wouldn't say Canada is losing anything by having a hyper-partisan senior public servant step down.

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #660 on: March 18, 2019, 20:27:51 »
For the record, the retirement letter (also attached in case link doesn't work) ...
Quote
The Right Honourable Justin P.J. Trudeau
Prime Minister of Canada
Room 315-A, West Block
House of Commons
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0A6

Dear Prime Minister:

Recent events have led me to conclude that I cannot serve as Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to Cabinet during the upcoming election campaign. Therefore, I will be taking steps to retire from the public service well before the writ of election is issued.

One of the key roles of the Privy Council Office is to be ready to assist whichever government Canadians elect in October. It has been my privilege to work with the transition teams of three prime ministers. It is now apparent that there is no path for me to have a relationship of mutual trust and respect with the leaders of the Opposition parties. Furthermore, it is essential that during the writ period the Clerk be seen by all political parties as an impartial arbiter of whether serious foreign interference has occurred.

Therefore, I wish to relinquish these roles before the election. It is essential that Canadians continue to see their world leading public service as non-partisan and there to provide excellent services to Canadians and the governments they elect.

The timing of my retirement is something we should discuss, as your Government will have a busy Cabinet agenda until the end of the Parliamentary session, and you will want to seek advice on how best to address succession.

I will have more to say later, but I would be remiss if I did not use this letter to thank you for the confidence you have placed in me over the past three years and the opportunity for extraordinary personal and professional experiences in the service of my country.


Sincerely yours,
Michael Wernick
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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #661 on: March 18, 2019, 21:25:17 »
But those are most likley well paid Liberal supporters and donors, so it's "Double ungood"

Hmmm.  Max donation for anyone in Canada is $1600. irrepsective of province or party.  As to well-paid, here are some average salaries for Canadians.  Look at the Engineering ones - all less than a Capt or CWO in the CAF. 

https://neuvoo.ca/salary/

So if a Maj in the CAF makes a donation to the NDP, is he or she "a well paid NDP suppporter or donor?"  How about CPC supporter?
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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #662 on: March 18, 2019, 22:09:27 »
Look at the Engineering ones
https://neuvoo.ca/salary/

They seem a bit low. ( The Engineer pay scale, that is. ) See also,

Job Classification Title ENGINEER
https://www.brainhunter.com/frontoffice/seekerViewJobDetailAction.do?sitecode=pl389&jobId=2320933&page=search&external=
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 22:26:56 by mariomike »

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #663 on: March 18, 2019, 22:28:04 »
You are looking at the wrong statistics.

Those are the average salaries for engineers. In the private sector, the engineers that work for engineering firms (like SNC) are also partners and shareholders in the firm. Once you add the remuneration coming from those factors for the P. Eng. with more than ten years practice, and particularly in the higher echelons of the firm, the annual compensation packages will run them in the six figures and more likely above the 200,000/year range for quite a few of them. Even that leaves money in the actual firm's kettle to put into lobbying and politics.

And yes, sure, Canadian are limited to $1600 per person, but if the firm ensures that 100 employees donate that amount ( and are compensated in the background for it by the firm) "on order" and it is advertised quietly to the powers that be, for instance, then it's the power of $160,000 that this "firm" holds over the party it donated to in this fashion. 

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #664 on: March 18, 2019, 22:29:28 »
Hmmm.  Max donation for anyone in Canada is $1600. irrepsective of province or party.

So what you're saying is, once you're in the Laurier Club for the Liberal Party of Canada, you can attend fundraising events for free for the rest of the year? Or does the fact that the Laurier Club gives you access to events closed to normal donors at $200+ a ticket just mean those people are "middle class" individuals who can fork out at least $1800 of net income on political party events

https://secure.liberal.ca/laurierclub/
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/donation-stats-indicate-liberal-fundraisers-are-exclusive-events/article32588273/
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-fundraiser-touted-as-a-networking-opportunity/article33233874/
https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/9b8jba/the-trudeau-government-scheduled-more-than-100-cash-for-access-events-in-2016-alone

That being said, most political parties do big ticket fundraisers. The difference is, the Liberals campaigned on being "transparent" and "working for the middle class" https://www.liberal.ca/openness-and-transparency/. Not just a little bit of hypocrisy, a huge amount of it.

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #665 on: March 18, 2019, 22:58:08 »
"The higher the rank, the more necessary it is that boldness should be accompanied by a reflective mind....for with increase in rank it becomes always a matter less of self-sacrifice and more a matter of the preservation of others, and the good of the whole."

Karl von Clausewitz

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #666 on: March 18, 2019, 23:06:40 »
Hmmm.  Max donation for anyone in Canada is $1600. irrepsective of province or party.  As to well-paid, here are some average salaries for Canadians.  Look at the Engineering ones - all less than a Capt or CWO in the CAF. 

https://neuvoo.ca/salary/

So if a Maj in the CAF makes a donation to the NDP, is he or she "a well paid NDP suppporter or donor?"  How about CPC supporter?

Those are working level engineering type jobs (equivalent to new-newish Captains).  Once you hit senior Captain, Maj and above, job titles change to 'Senior Engineer', Engineering Manager, Director etc. They also branch out into Project Manager, Program Manager, VPs, etc. Have met a few company presidents that are engineers, as well as other senior executives, presidents and CEOs, so the job title is a bit misleading once they hit the management side and get out of pure engineering.

Still, not many people will complain about those kind of salaries, so not uncommon for people to stick in the design trenches and do what they love (especially if they don't need to deal with people; they have other people for that!  ;)  ).

Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #667 on: March 18, 2019, 23:10:41 »
And yes, sure, Canadian are limited to $1600 per person, but if the firm ensures that 100 employees donate that amount ( and are compensated in the background for it by the firm) "on order" and it is advertised quietly to the powers that be, for instance, then it's the power of $160,000 that this "firm" holds over the party it donated to in this fashion.

I can't seem to find any past incidences of this having happened?  Am I slow tonight?
"The higher the rank, the more necessary it is that boldness should be accompanied by a reflective mind....for with increase in rank it becomes always a matter less of self-sacrifice and more a matter of the preservation of others, and the good of the whole."

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #668 on: March 18, 2019, 23:11:43 »
Not just a little bit of hypocrisy, a huge amount of it.

I'm not sure how having fundraising dinners goes against transparency and openness?  I attended one for the Kiwanis Club once - does that make them non-transparent and closed?
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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #669 on: March 18, 2019, 23:14:39 »
I can't seem to find any past incidences of this having happened?  Am I slow tonight?

I seem to remember this beauty, which did one better by funding the Party with taxpayer dollars rather than corporate dollars!
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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #670 on: March 19, 2019, 10:20:45 »
I can't seem to find any past incidences of this having happened?  Am I slow tonight?

Former SNC-Lavalin exec charged with illegal federal political contributions

https://globalnews.ca/news/4215730/former-snc-lavalin-exec-charged-with-illegal-federal-political-contributions/

Key figure in illegal election financing scheme quietly pleads guilty
Social Sharing
Normand Morin's plea means Canadians may never know which Liberals, Conservatives received SNC Lavalin money

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/election-financing-snclavalin-charbonneau-1.4984823

Basically SNC employees or spouses donated the money and were reimbursed by the company. Went to both Liberal campaigns, leader hopefuls, and some Conservatives, as well as PQ.

Really convenient how only one person was charged, a bunch of others got immunity, and others were never charged.  He got off with a $2000 fine, so probably cheaper than paying a lawyer, but also killed any disclosure. Makes sense for the prosecutors to take the plea, but there were enough people involved that a single scapegoat is suspicious, and the whole thing was conveniently buried around the same time as the JWR situation was coming up.

Feel like I need a tin hat, except that these guys are just awful at trying to cover it up.  The justice committee is apparently deciding to down tools and let the ethics czar investigate, knowing full well it will never get done before the election.  I don't think Canadian voters will really care though, and most will forget about it, or decide there is no real alternative anyway.  Scheer doesn't really capture the hearts and minds of anyone outside of Conservative faithful, and they keep trotting out Polliviere as a talking head, which is really just messaging to their own echo chamber.

Would be nice to have an option where they would actually work with other parties and compromise as required for getting things done, but they are probably less electable.  Think my personal red line is going to be actualsupport for proportional representation, so likely going with the Green party.

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #671 on: March 19, 2019, 11:44:07 »
Well, that's the end of that open and transparent investigation.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5071191/opposition-mps-leave-justice-committee-meeting-snc-lavalin/

Opposition MPs briefly storm out of committee meeting as Liberals end SNC-Lavalin investigation - 19 Mar 19

Opposition MPs briefly stormed out of the Justice Committee meeting Tuesday morning, after reporters were given a document outlining a Liberal motion to discuss hate crimes the morning after publicly calling for an end to the SNC-Lavalin investigation. On Monday night, the five Liberal MPs in the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights sent a letter to the chair of the committee saying they believe the “all rules and laws were followed” by government staff in relation to SNC-Lavalin, and that “Canadians now have the necessary information to arrive at a conclusion.”

During the meeting Tuesday morning, the Liberal-majority committee voted to end the probe into the affair.
Ahead of the planned Justice Committee meeting, Liberal staffers handed out a motion to media to discuss hate crimes and study how racism, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia and homophobia spreads through online platforms. Global News’ Mercedes Stephenson reported on the motion on Twitter — which was the first opposition MPs had heard of the motion, Tory MP Lisa Raitt told Global News.(see photo MS)

They said the Liberals violated the Committee in camera rules by providing that motion to media before it was tabled and walked out of the meeting. After briefly speaking to media, the opposition MPs rushed back into the meeting, which is in camera and thus not open to the media. Opposition MPs had been asking for the meeting to be open to the public, and for the probe to continue, saying Canadians have the right to hear more about the SNC-Lavalin controversy.

Raitt said on Twitter that even after the investigation, “we don’t know why” MPs Jody Wilson-Raybould and Jane Philpott resigned from the Liberal cabinet, or why Clerk of the Privy Council Michael Wernick and the Principal Secretary to the Prime Minister Gerald Butts resigned from their positions after the scandal broke. NDP MP Murray Rankin said Raybould-Wilson had more to say and would ask the committee to “do the right thing.” (see photo MR)
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 11:46:58 by Rifleman62 »
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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #672 on: March 19, 2019, 16:26:41 »
I can't seem to find any past incidences of this having happened?  Am I slow tonight?

Further to Navy Pete's last:

Quote
SNC-Lavalin violated Elections Act with contributions to Liberals ($108,000), Tories ($8000)
Bruce Cheadle, The Canadian Press
Published Thursday, September 8, 2016 9:51AM EDT
Last Updated Thursday, September 8, 2016 5:09PM EDT

Quote
According to the agreement entered into by SNC-Lavalin, former senior executives approached employees to make political contributions and, in some cases, those employees were reimbursed with refunds for false personal expenses, fictitious bonuses or other benefits.

The improperly donated sums included: $83,534.51 to the Liberal Party of Canada; $13,552.13 to various Liberal riding associations; $12,529.12 to four contestants in the 2006 Liberal leadership race, including $5,000 each to Michael Ignatieff and Bob Rae; $3,137.73 to the Conservative Party of Canada; and $5,050 to various Conservative riding associations.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/snc-lavalin-violated-elections-act-with-contributions-to-liberals-tories-1.3063412
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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #673 on: March 19, 2019, 18:47:09 »
Further to Navy Pete's last:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/snc-lavalin-violated-elections-act-with-contributions-to-liberals-tories-1.3063412

Thank you to you, Navy Pete, and Infanteer for enlightening me.  Much appreciated.  Now I need to take a shower.
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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #674 on: March 19, 2019, 19:52:50 »