Author Topic: Troops To The Border ?  (Read 1902 times)

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Offline tomahawk6

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Troops To The Border ?
« on: March 27, 2020, 02:21:47 »
Bad move. Rather increase border patrol presence. We don't want to disrupt the cross border shopping trips.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/canada-us-troops-border-coronavirus-outbreak

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2020, 07:40:10 »
I don't see why our government seems so antsy about it. The US deploying troops to stop Americans, who may be sick and contagious, from fleeing the US to come here seems like a good idea to me.
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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2020, 08:45:04 »
Bad move. Rather increase border patrol presence. We don't want to disrupt the cross border shopping trips.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/canada-us-troops-border-coronavirus-outbreak
Cross border shopping trips are already cancelled.... the border is closed to non essential traffic.

Offline Haggis

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2020, 09:05:44 »
Cross border shopping trips are already cancelled.... the border is closed to non essential traffic.
Unless the closest source of essential goods (i.e. groceries, fuel and medication) is on the other side of the border.
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Offline Haggis

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2020, 09:07:04 »
I don't see why our government seems so antsy about it. The US deploying troops to stop Americans, who may be sick and contagious, from fleeing the US to come here seems like a good idea to me.

if only that was the case.  Trump is concerned that "things" are still being smuggled into the US from Canada.
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Offline OceanBonfire

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2020, 10:19:52 »
Bad move. Rather increase border patrol presence. We don't want to disrupt the cross border shopping trips.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/canada-us-troops-border-coronavirus-outbreak

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Offline Target Up

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2020, 11:10:22 »
As far as I know, the US can do whatever the hell it wants with it's own troops within its own borders.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2020, 11:34:51 »
Looks like it's off:

Quote
U.S. won’t post troops at Canadian border; Ottawa says it ‘strongly opposed’ proposal

The United States has decided against sending U.S. troops to its border with Canada after the Canadian government said it “strongly opposed” the proposal designed to fight the COVID-19 pandemic.

The Wall Street Journal reported on Thursday evening [March 26] that the Trump administration spiked the plan because of Canada’s objections.

Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland stressed earlier in the day that Canadian officials made their opposition to the idea “very, very clear to our American counterparts.”..

A senior Canadian official with knowledge of the plan said it would have stationed 1,000 troops about 30 kilometres from the border with ground-based sensor technology to track unauthorized crossings. This information would be relayed to border guards to intercept people.

Ms. Freeland said Canadian officials learned of the proposal a few days ago...

At a White House news conference on Thursday afternoon, Mr. Trump said the troops could also be used to stop illegal shipments of Chinese steel coming in through Canada to avoid his tariffs on China.

“We have a lot of things coming in from Canada. We have trade, some illegal trade, that we don’t like. … We don’t like steel coming through our border that’s been dumped in Canada so they can avoid the tariff,” the President said. “We’ve taken in billions and billions of dollars in tariffs on steel and much of it comes in from China, but they can come in through the Canadian border, too, so we’re always watching for that.”

Mr. Trump also suggested that putting troops closer to Canada would help even things out with Mexico.

“We have very strong deployments on the southern border, as you know, Mexico, and we had some troops up in Canada, but I’ll find out about that. I guess it’s equal justice, to some extent,” Mr. Trump said. “But in Canada, we have, we do have troops along the border.”

It was not immediately clear what Mr. Trump was talking about. The plan did not appear intended to help border guards search for illicit shipments of heavy metals. It was also unclear what troop deployment on the Canadian border the President meant.

[I saw the news conference. It was clear Pres. Trump had no idea what the issue was just (as so often) winging it.]

The Canadian official said the U.S. troop idea originated with the Department of Homeland Security, which includes Customs and Border Protection, and had received some support at the White House and the Pentagon. But others in the White House, Pentagon and Homeland Security opposed the plan, the official said. The Globe and Mail is not identifying the official because they were not authorized to speak on the matter...
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-us-wont-post-troops-at-canadian-border-ottawa-says-it-strongly/

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2020, 11:57:01 »
if only that was the case.  Trump is concerned that "things" are still being smuggled into the US from Canada.
Weird, not surprised. Like TargetUp says they can do what they want. I found or governments panic-sounding reaction kinda funny.



Quote
The United States has decided against sending U.S. troops to its border with Canada after the Canadian government said it “strongly opposed” the proposal designed to fight the COVID-19 pandemic.
I'm sure the US decided against it on the account of Ottawa being "strongly opposed"
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Offline Haggis

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2020, 11:59:56 »
I'm sure the US decided against it on the account of Ottawa being "strongly opposed"

That has to be it.  The PM spoke against this with such firm conviction that the Trump administration was swayed to scrap the idea.
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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2020, 12:09:17 »
Glad saner minds prevailed here; things are stressful enough for everyone. Sure the last thing any of the troops want is a totally useless circle jerk of an internal deployment in the US for purely political reasons. Nothing like sitting in the middle of nowhere with your thumb up your arse marking time when you are legitimately worried about your family.  Now is not the time for dog and pony show with the troops for a headline.
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2020, 12:34:17 »
Glad saner minds prevailed here; things are stressful enough for everyone. Sure the last thing any of the troops want is a totally useless circle jerk of an internal deployment in the US for purely political reasons. Nothing like sitting in the middle of nowhere with your thumb up your arse marking time when you are legitimately worried about your family.  Now is not the time for dog and pony show with the troops for a headline.

Exactly.  It was 1000 troops for the entire Can/US border with "ground surveillance equipment" as per the G&M article.  I don't think many Canadians are going to be going to the US willingly at this time.
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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2020, 12:54:17 »
That has to be it.  The PM spoke against this with such firm conviction that the Trump administration was swayed to scrap the idea.

I know you were being sarcastic, but I think you might find that this is exactly what happened....
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2020, 12:59:46 »

Honest question, what threat could we possibly make to the US to cause them to back down from anytbing they want to do?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 15:34:58 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2020, 13:53:48 »
As far as I know, the US can do whatever the hell it wants with it's own troops within its own borders.

Yes it can, but, just like any other country (including some where Canadian troops are now deployed), Canada can object when a neighbouring country positions troops with the aim of influencing activities within Canadian territory.  While this is a new wrinkle in the Canada/USA relationship, it's not the first time that Canada or the USA objected to the movement of military forces on another country's sovereign territory.  It was probably quite common when we (the NATO/NORAD "we") regularly objected to Soviet/WP military exercises and they to ours.
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Offline Target Up

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2020, 14:06:28 »
Yes it can, but, just like any other country (including some where Canadian troops are now deployed), Canada can object when a neighbouring country positions troops with the aim of influencing activities within Canadian territory.  While this is a new wrinkle in the Canada/USA relationship, it's not the first time that Canada or the USA objected to the movement of military forces on another country's sovereign territory.  It was probably quite common when we (the NATO/NORAD "we") regularly objected to Soviet/WP military exercises and they to ours.

"You've reached the US Government. All out operators are busy dealing with other calls at the moment. Your call is very important to us, please hold the line for the first available person who gives a crap what Canada thinks"...
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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Offline Colin P

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2020, 14:17:09 »
Exactly.  It was 1000 troops for the entire Can/US border with "ground surveillance equipment" as per the G&M article.  I don't think many Canadians are going to be going to the US willingly at this time.

and for political reasons certain cross border reserves would be exempt from surveillance or action.

Offline Haggis

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2020, 16:41:22 »
I know you were being sarcastic....

Only partly.  The PM can be an excellent orator when he's properly briefed/prepared/scripted He spoke well in this case.

0 but I think you might find that this is exactly what happened....

That would not surprise me at all.  The opinion of allied leaders matters significantly to Trump occasionally, particularly when those opinions make him look a bit unhinged on the home front.
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Offline CBH99

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2020, 16:52:26 »
Glad saner minds prevailed here; things are stressful enough for everyone. Sure the last thing any of the troops want is a totally useless circle jerk of an internal deployment in the US for purely political reasons. Nothing like sitting in the middle of nowhere with your thumb up your arse marking time when you are legitimately worried about your family.  Now is not the time for dog and pony show with the troops for a headline.

At least at the southern border, the weather is substantially better, there are more people, and they actually get to assist law enforcement in border control.

Can you imagine being stationed along an extremely sparse part of the Canadian border, at this time of year, with everything going on & worried about their families, when there isn't really anybody on the other side of the border at all?  People won't be sneaking into the US anytime soon, agreed - but even harder when there aren't any people around to begin with.
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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2020, 21:08:24 »
At least at the southern border, the weather is substantially better, there are more people, and they actually get to assist law enforcement in border control.

Can you imagine being stationed along an extremely sparse part of the Canadian border, at this time of year, with everything going on & worried about their families, when there isn't really anybody on the other side of the border at all?  People won't be sneaking into the US anytime soon, agreed - but even harder when there aren't any people around to begin with.

Yeah, no kidding. There are huge parts of the border that are just 100s of miles of scrub forest and Canadian shield. It's nice for about a day or two, but even the wildlife get bored, and you need to plan fuel stops because there are just empty spots without even a gas station. That huge area from Montana through North Dakota and Minnesota isn't really hopping, and it's all north of Ottawa.

This nighttime satellite shot at the link below gives you a pretty good idea of how empty it is;

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-north-america-at-night-in-2012-showing-the-united-states-and-canada-84970756.html

Offline quadrapiper

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2020, 00:10:59 »
Yeah, no kidding. There are huge parts of the border that are just 100s of miles of scrub forest and Canadian shield. It's nice for about a day or two, but even the wildlife get bored, and you need to plan fuel stops because there are just empty spots without even a gas station. That huge area from Montana through North Dakota and Minnesota isn't really hopping, and it's all north of Ottawa.

This nighttime satellite shot at the link below gives you a pretty good idea of how empty it is;

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-north-america-at-night-in-2012-showing-the-united-states-and-canada-84970756.html
Plus those wonderfully dark spots just in from the Pacific coast: mountains, maybe some "no step on snek" militia types, more mountains, your choice of carnivores, and trees.

Offline stellarpanther

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2020, 00:35:04 »
As much as I'm not a Trump supporter, he does come across as reasonable when it's not something that he thought of on his own.  At the Press Conference Thursday, he almost seemed surprised by the question as if it was the first he heard about it. and instead of simply saying that, he blabbered on about troops on the southern border and the dumping of steel from Canada.




Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2020, 11:33:31 »
Quote from: quadrapiper
maybe some "no step on snek" militia types

Seen a deployed US unit with that flag up. The snek one. Beautiful.

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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2020, 11:46:12 »
My son has one of those "No Step on Snek" flags. He wanted me to replace our Canadian flag outside with it as a joke when Pres. Trump announced the troop deployment.

I said : No! Nothing displaces the Canadian flag in this household. I have to put my foot down at some things.  :tsktsk:

I think the best summing up of most Canadian's reaction to Trump's announcement is summed up perfectly by the cartoon FJAG today posted in the Political Cartoon thread. Personally, if the US wants to deploy them, I think the troop will bore themselves to death watching over nothing, and will then go back to camps after this blows over, having accomplished nothing whatsoever.
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Offline FSTO

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Re: Troops To The Border ?
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2020, 13:31:38 »
I had to look up the "No step on Snek" flag. Its funny how some people automatically scream how its a "racist" flag. Huh?

Its a parody of the "Don't tread on me" flag that the traitorous colonial rebels flew during the unfortunate time of 1776.

Is "Don't tread on me" still the current Jack of the US Navy?