Author Topic: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]  (Read 98911 times)

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Offline polisci_student

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Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« on: July 22, 2008, 17:41:20 »
Hi everyone,

In about a year I'll be graduating from university (political science at Queen's), and have begun looking at grad schools.  I was reading about the Defence Management and Policy programme at RMC, and was wondering if anybody can give me more information about it.  I'm curious about the sort of reputation and career prospects this course has, as well as the sort of students who take it.  I was also wondering what it's like at RMC for civilians.  Do grad students go through ROTP?  If not, would a civilian not wearing uniform fit in with what I would imagine to be a fairly tight clique?  Any information anybody has would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks in advance. 

Offline cavalryman

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2008, 18:19:16 »
Here's a good start with some info

http://www.rmc.ca/academic/grad/index_e.html

Appears they'll take civilians, so no ROTP required to enter the MA programme.

Offline speedbird

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2008, 17:56:30 »
Defence Management is a pretty poorly organized program, from the perspective of a War Studies student.
If you talk to Drs. Pentland or Sokolsky, they would likely refer you to War Studies, DM is more like Policy Studies as opposed to Political Studies/IR
Theres a great civilian community at RMC and great interaction with QCIR as well.  Actually the degree of interaction between officers (generally Maj/LCol) and civilian grad students make it a far more beneficial experience then an MA in POLS or IR at Carleton, Queen's etc.

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2008, 18:04:40 »
Defence Management is a pretty poorly organized program, from the perspective of a War Studies student.
If you talk to Drs. Pentland or Sokolsky, they would likely refer you to War Studies, DM is more like Policy Studies as opposed to Political Studies/IR
Theres a great civilian community at RMC and great interaction with QCIR as well.  Actually the degree of interaction between officers (generally Maj/LCol) and civilian grad students make it a far more beneficial experience then an MA in POLS or IR at Carleton, Queen's etc.


If I can offer a suggestion, I had the good fortune to take two four yr courses during my time at Queen's with Dr Sokolsky and would definitely reccomend approaching him. Always found him to be very helpful. Never had the pleasure of meeting Dr Pentland though unfortunately so I'll refrain from posting on that.

Just my two cents...

Offline DavidWheatcroft

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2010, 20:20:03 »
Can you pursue graduate studies in the ROTP program? Fully subsidized and still only serve the same amount of time?

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2010, 20:52:06 »
NO.

As an inquisitive Tenth Grader, who no doubt is a little Tech Savy, perhaps you should use those skills to read the topics here first, and then ask your questions.  It will save everyone a lot of time and put an end to numerous Threads being created to ask the same questions over and over again, thus making it harder for others to find the information that they are looking for.

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Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2010, 20:55:10 »
Actually George, I recently responded to a research request from a young officer who described his situation as follows:

Quote
I am a recently-trained phase IV subaltern, who, for his sins, was sent off to do an MA immediately after training.

Now, there was something about lanes .....

Offline DavidWheatcroft

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2010, 21:06:27 »
Isn't this forum open for questions, and assistance to those in need? I'm asking this because maybe if I can't do graduate studies I'm going to change my mind about rotp, or maybe a little curious. I tried to find the question before I asked it, and failed. Find the question I asked, and show me. I'm not here for irrelevant affectation, I'm here to sort my future.
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niceasdrhuxtable

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2010, 21:07:41 »
Isn't this forum open for questions, and assistance to those in need? I'm asking this because maybe if I can't do graduate studies I'm going to change my mind about rotp, or maybe a little curious. I tried to find the question before I asked it, and failed. Find the question I asked, and show me. I'm not here for irrelevant affectation, I'm here to sort my future.

Ah, I see you're a recent graduate from the Helena Guergis Institute of Tact and Civility

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2010, 21:09:19 »
David, it is possible, but very rare to go into graduate studies after ROTP and before serving your initial period of obligatory service. Even if you do, it will likely add to, not overlap, your obligatory service.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2010, 21:09:52 »
Actually George, I recently responded to a research request from a young officer who described his situation as follows:

Now, there was something about lanes .....

Unless ROTP has been changed in the last few months, there is NO Graduate Studies program offered under ROTP.  There are Graduate Studies offered at RMC, but not for ROTP candidates.   Post Graduate Degree/Doctorate are under different programs. 

As for getting a Post Graduate Degree/Doctorate under the same subsidy as given for ROTP, all lumped together, and owing only the VIE of the ROTP education, then that is also not going to happen.

Someone from the CFRG can clarify those facts.
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Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2010, 21:12:35 »
Yes George, it's not under the "ROTP" itself, but I saw through that semantic nuance and realized he was asking about the possibility of going on to Graduate Studies directly after graduation.  Whether or not it remains under the ROTP program really isn't the point.

Offline macknightcr

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2010, 21:15:34 »
I too have been wondering about this topic.  I understand that if I were to have the CF pay for Graduate school that I would be adding to my term of service, and the juming into more school right after graduation is not what I want.   I want to take my first post, get settled in and eventually get a Masters Degree without taking time off from work.  Is it possible to take night courses subsidized while still working with my unit?

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2010, 22:36:24 »
I have no horse in this race, but people better check their attitudes post haste.

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Offline gcclarke

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2010, 12:14:37 »
The primary reference which governs post-graduate studies in the CF is CFAO 9-33 -- POST-GRADUATE TRAINING PROGRAMS REGULAR FORCE AND PRIMARY RESERVE. It outlines 4 separate programs. The first, the General Program is the one most used.

Various organizations within the CF have identified a requirement to have someone working for them with a specific post-graduate qualification, and are willing to foot the bill. The members gets education subsidized, and then goes to work for the organization that sponsored them for a specific period of time, typically 2 years. This incurs obligatory service. As well, the program is typically only open for a specific degree at a specific institution, although some do mention the degree can be taken at "Any Canadian University".
The eligibility requirements are as follows:
Quote
9. To be considered for selection for PGT, an officer will normally:
a. by 1 Sep of the year in which the PG training is to commence, have completed three years commissioned service;
b. have sufficient time remaining in his present period of service, after graduation, to complete the obligatory service resulting from participation in a PG programme, as prescribed in CFAO 15-7;
c. meet the appropriate educational prerequisites; and
d. meet such other conditions as the CDS may prescribe.

The second program outlined is the "Training on Scholarship Programme", and is the only program where one can typically proceed on subsidized post-graduate education immediately after finishing an undergraduate degree via ROTP or UTPNCM. It is a tough one to get authorization for, and is only for personnel who have won a "prestigious scholarship." Specifically mentioned in the CFAO is that "Preference will be given to those scholarships that are universally recognized, such as the Rhodes scholarship." As you can imagine, this program is bloody rare. This article mentions that RMC has only had a total of 12 Rhodes scholars ever. The most recent, in 2008, would not have been eligible for this program anyways, as he was at RMC via the Reserve Entry Training Plan vice ROTP. The one previous to that was in 1987. I'm sure there's a few scattered cases of this program being used for prestigious scholarships that aren't at Oxford, but still, it's a rare event.

The third program outlined is "Training Under The DND Military and Strategic Studies Programme", and I believe it is for those senior (or soon to be) officers being sent to staff college. You need at least 10 years commissioned service to be eligible.

The fourth is "Post-Graduate Training - Primary Reserve", which allows for reserve officers to receive post-gradate training at RMC in Military History, War Studies, or Engineering and Science. This is paid for by their reserve unit.

These are the options for full-time post-graduate education. As well, there is the option of doing part-time education on top of your full-time job, via the "Advanced Degree - Part-Time Programme for Regular force Officers" program, outlined in CF Military Personnel Instructions 18/04. For this one you must be Reg Force, Trade Qualified, not on LWOP, not already have a Master's degree or higher, and be applying for a degree which "specified military, occupational or organizational requirement". Approval must come from your L1 or a designated authority no lower than BGen/Cmdre.

Oh yes. Also, each of these will incur additional obligatory service. Any full-time post grad is at the same rate as ROTP. Any part-time post grad incurs 1 additional month of obligatory service per $2,000 subsidized.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 12:19:14 by gcclarke »
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Offline macknightcr

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2010, 15:17:37 »
I cannot open any of those links, but that information was exactly what I was looking for. 

Thank you.

Offline Mantlerom

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2011, 21:48:14 »
Hello all,
I have an under graduate degree in Economics, a Juris Doctor (JD, law degree), and an LLM (Masters of Law). I am interesting in pursuing more schooling. There are programs at RMC that I am interested in and I have a great desire to serve. I have been looking for answers to the following:
1) If I go to RMC for post-grad, will I also be able to go through officer training?
2) Has anyone else done PG work with RMC? I'd enjoy hearing about your experience there.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.
PTD

Offline Mantlerom

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2011, 14:10:17 »
Also if this discussion has come up already, please feel free to direct me to the right area-forum.  :salute:

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2011, 14:16:04 »
You mean like this?

site:army.ca rmc post-grad

You're welcome,

Staff, B.Google

Offline Mantlerom

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2011, 15:37:17 »
This seems to be the answer I was looking for, so if you find yourself here check out the following.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=93569.0


Offline Phobos

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2012, 22:15:28 »
        Is it possible to go through ROTP at R.M.C., receive a bachelor's degree and the immediately move on to graduate studies? Obviously, this would require the individual to increase their length of commitment to the forces since they are pursuing more education but, is it even possible? And if it is, how popular is this route to receive a graduate degree?

I'm looking to receive a Bachelors of Science degree in Physics at R.M.C. and then attend graduate studies at R.M.C. for their Master's of Nuclear Science or Physics program (still sitting on the fence about this decision).

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2012, 22:20:14 »
I would think this outcome highly unlikely. The goal of RMC is to produce young officers capable of becoming "leaders of men (and women)", not professional students. Once working in your occupation, your branch may have a post grad programme you can apply to.
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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2012, 22:24:58 »
        Is it possible to go through ROTP at R.M.C., receive a bachelor's degree and the immediately move on to graduate studies? Obviously, this would require the individual to increase their length of commitment to the forces since they are pursuing more education but, is it even possible? And if it is, how popular is this route to receive a graduate degree?

I'm looking to receive a Bachelors of Science degree in Physics at R.M.C. and then attend graduate studies at R.M.C. for their Master's of Nuclear Science or Physics program (still sitting on the fence about this decision).

Thanks in advance.

-Phoebe :cdn:

I've seen this exact thing happen, however, it is not the normal course of things.  Normally, you would be expected to go into your career field for a few years and contribute to the CF before coming back for a Masters.  But, I reiterate, it does seem to happen the other way, too.

Offline Melbatoast

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2012, 11:33:25 »
I've seen this exact thing happen, however, it is not the normal course of things.  Normally, you would be expected to go into your career field for a few years and contribute to the CF before coming back for a Masters.  But, I reiterate, it does seem to happen the other way, too.

I've seen it too, very recently.  I don't know the circumstances, but this individual went from UTPNCM undergrad to some other program post-grad immediately, without being employed (or presumably qualified) in occupation.  The particular post graduate program this person went into seems extremely relevant to the occupation, which is probably how it went down, plus the occupation is kind of clogged up (MARS).

Super sweet deal in my opinion, except for the front end career lag.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2012, 11:49:31 »
The one person I'm familiar with was ROTP MARS, who went immediately from his BA in Politics to the MA in International Relations at the Norman Patterson School (Carleton), without classification training. During his MA he transferred over to Int, did his qualification training, then served minimal obligatory time before releasing. He subsequently did a law degree and now makes a shitload of money in Virginia Beach.

Does it happen? Yes. Is it rare? Yes. Does the CF benefit?  :dunno: