Author Topic: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017  (Read 209467 times)

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Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #100 on: March 04, 2016, 08:16:29 »
I'm already at max IPC.  I'd say you're probably correct, NS, as I have that kind of luck.  A sure sign of a coming big freeze will be if the MPs give themselves a big fat raise, just before they slam the door in everyone's face like Chretien did.
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #101 on: March 04, 2016, 08:22:52 »
I'm already at max IPC.  I'd say you're probably correct, NS, as I have that kind of luck.  A sure sign of a coming big freeze will be if the MPs give themselves a big fat raise, just before they slam the door in everyone's face like Chretien did.

Or rumours, becoming reality, of raising the Minimum Wage to $15/hr.    >:D
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #102 on: March 04, 2016, 08:24:12 »
Yep! No "insider trading" there at all.  [>:(

Offline technophile

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #103 on: March 04, 2016, 09:02:30 »
don't get the pay freeze that we saw in the 90's, where the only pay-raise you got was for a rank-change. 

A pay-raise for a promotion ?  Whats that ? As a long suffering former LCIS tech, we have been " frozen" since Oct 2011.  Some lucky Sgts in our trade are still being paid as a Cpl incentive 4 ( w/spec pay ) Promoted twice, no pay raise.

but, I Digress.

 

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #104 on: March 04, 2016, 09:22:29 »
A pay-raise for a promotion ?  Whats that ? As a long suffering former LCIS tech, we have been " frozen" since Oct 2011.  Some lucky Sgts in our trade are still being paid as a Cpl incentive 4 ( w/spec pay ) Promoted twice, no pay raise.

but, I Digress.

 ???

Either someone is lying to you, someone does not know how to read their Pay docs, OR some RMS clerks have not properly entered Promotions into the system.  There is NO WAY that a Sgt is still being paid as a Cpl, unless they are not actually a Sgt.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #105 on: March 04, 2016, 09:24:01 »
ACISS types got screwed hard...sadly it is happening to some.  Spoke to one of them just this week actually.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #106 on: March 04, 2016, 09:33:01 »
???

Either someone is lying to you, someone does not know how to read their Pay docs, OR some RMS clerks have not properly entered Promotions into the system.  There is NO WAY that a Sgt is still being paid as a Cpl, unless they are not actually a Sgt.

Sorry, George, but it's entirely possible.

LCIS techs were in receipt of Spec pay.  The MESIP that restructured the sigs trades removed spec pay.  Since those formerly in that trade receive pay protection, they retain their old rate of pay until promoted to a rank where the pay is greater than their vested rights.


EDIT: Cpl IPC 4 Spec 1 is $5649/month; Sgt No Spec Basic IPC is $5416.  Such a Cpl would only get a pay increase on being promoted to Warrant Officer. (http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/reg-force-ncm-class-c-rates.page)
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #107 on: March 04, 2016, 09:41:31 »
Thanks DP

That was the only case I could think of, but was unsure where the SPEC Pay Cut off was for that Trade as the generic Pay Scale you linked carried on right up to the CWO ranks.
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #108 on: March 04, 2016, 09:49:32 »
Fortunately, people are our #1 resource, so the institution puts forth maximum effort to ensure their well-being.  Luckily, there is enough spare effort after we look after our own that we can pursue things like tweaking systems to 'harmonize' with the other Departments.


:not-again:

Offline technophile

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #109 on: March 04, 2016, 11:05:29 »
The MESIP that restructured the sigs trades removed spec pay.

The entire MOS was "temporarily " assigned the standard pay group in Oct 2011, until a pay review could be completed.   We are still waiting for that pay review to happen.  ( insert music from " Benny Hill" )
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 11:08:16 by technophile »

Offline blackberet17

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #110 on: March 04, 2016, 12:17:27 »
The entire MOS was "temporarily " assigned the standard pay group in Oct 2011, until a pay review could be completed.   We are still waiting for that pay review to happen.  ( insert music from " Benny Hill" )

Thanks for that, now it's stuck in my head...

Luckily, I don't believe in suffering alone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcNhDstL4-k

 :P
« Ne vous occupez pas d'eux; ils ne savent pas tirer. [...] Il y a des ennemis devant nous, derrière nous et sur nos flancs. Il ne reste qu'une place sans danger, soit vers l'objectif. » Paul Triquet, VC

Offline AirDet

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #111 on: April 22, 2016, 08:47:03 »
Good morning Gents,

There was a rumour on the CF Spouses Site last night WRT a CF Pay Raise (2016). Quite often they have been misinformed but sometimes they get it right. Has anyone heard any radio chatter on this?
Just because an opinion differs doesn't make it any less valid. Remember those who gave their ALL to guarantee freedom of speech.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #112 on: April 22, 2016, 10:03:07 »
Good morning Gents,

There was a rumour on the CF Spouses Site .......

DANGER Will Robinson!
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Offline Pre-flight

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #113 on: April 22, 2016, 11:43:57 »
DANGER Will Robinson!

PSAC is still negotiating their contract, as they are the largest of the public service unions our rates won't change until after theirs is finalized. They're asking for 3% a year for the 3 years of the contract (which would include 2 years retroactive since 2014). There's many other issues they're negotiating on (sick leave being the main one) which is why it's been a slow process.

Best case scenario they make some sort of concession on sick leave and get a bigger pay raise!

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #114 on: April 22, 2016, 11:47:29 »
Has anyone heard any radio chatter on this?

Heard something at the CDS & CFCWO Town Hall last week ...

No actual figures given, just that the paperwork was readied for submission pending the outcome of current collective bargaining process'.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #115 on: April 22, 2016, 12:04:06 »
That sort of TB submission is relatively easy - copy the last one, change the dates, and once the percentages are identified, run the numbers and update the tables.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #116 on: April 22, 2016, 12:51:34 »
That sort of TB submission is relatively easy - copy the last one, change the dates, and once the percentages are identified, run the numbers and update the tables.

Oui. 
Hard by MCpl Elton Adams

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Offline Tcm621

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #117 on: April 30, 2016, 20:56:38 »
I am not sure about this policy anymore actually.  I think it was initiated by CF H Svcs Gp back about mid-2000s.  I first recall it when I was at a HQ and it came out (as far as I can remember...).  The intent was to keep people with the Flu or common cold, etc out of the CDUs during the initial 48 hours (most able to infect others during that time) for something they would just as likely be given a few days at home to recover.

At the unit I was at, Snr NCOs and up were able to authorize 2 x days 'sick at home' without a medical sick chit, on the 3rd day the mbr was required to report to the MIR.  It was published in our ROs as such so the policy was clear.

I have heard of people (one of them was a Sgt at the unit I reported to when I OTd and was a Cpl again back in '07) who thought there was an 'entitlement' to 2 days off a month for sick leave, sort of like a civilian employee might get.  I know of at least one case on my Wing and in my trade of someone who also believes this myth but hasn't be educated yet; that will happen at some point as everyone is bound to end up at the line sqn sooner or later. 

Seems to me, the last few years or so people have been getting far better at just 'making stuff up' instead of finding and following official direction/policy.  Not just on this topic, and a whole bunch of other ones too.  The latest one I heard was the "you have to submit a leave pass if you are not sleeping within the geographical boundaries of base on the weekend" one.  Yup, I'll just ignore that, thanks.

On another note, boys oh boys are we ever off topic the last few pages!!   ;D
My biggest pet peeve in the military is "made up" regulations. All the regulations are available on the din so there is literally no reason not to fact check. My two personal favorites are weekend leave passes and Toques and gloves.

The leave manual states that a weekend leave pass is not required for travel anywhere in Canada yet I have see people threaten to charge folks if they travel out of area without a leave pass.

Nowhere in the dress manual does it state gloves must be worn with a toque. Gloves are required for parkas and gabardines only. Toques can be worn when ever needed. Some places go even farther and say no to Toques unless you are wearing an ice jacket or parka. And while a wing/base can make its own policy only one base I have ever been at has done anything but copy and paste the dress regs.

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #118 on: April 30, 2016, 21:17:14 »
Those are terrible examples. The order to must wear gloves with toque is a local amplification of the dress regs, and a lawful order. Don't like it? Make it to brigade RSM and change the rule. Same thing. Ordering you to fill out a leave pass may not be required by the leave policy, but it's your CO's unit, and if s/he want to track people leaving the area on a weekend with a leave pass, that's a lawful order as well. It grinds your gears that you have to take 5 minutes to sign/submit a leave pass? You must be torqued 24/7 with all the other paperwork we have to do in the CAF...

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #119 on: April 30, 2016, 21:26:44 »
The leave pass issue;  there are already regulations, laid out.  No leave pass required.  If I am a WO, I can't just decide that hey, frig it I am going to make my MCpls and below fill em out and charge them if they don't.  If the CMP says "you don't need a weekend leave pass", can a lowly CO order contrary?

From the Manual:

Application

Unless otherwise indicated, this manual applies to all members of the Canadian Forces (CF).

Approval Authority

The Canadian Forces Leave Policy Manual is issued under the authority of the Chief Military Personnel (CMP).

Reference

Source reference - DAOD 5060-0, Leave

From the DAOD

3. Authorities

Authority Table

3.1 The following table identifies the authorities associated with this DAOD:


3. Authorities

Authority Table

3.1 The following table identifies the authorities associated with this DAOD:


The …                       has the authority to …

CMP                         develop and approve leave policy.


I don't see there where it says a unit can develop and approve their 'own' leave policy, sorry.

And...that's the last I'll add to this  X page long derail.   >:D
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #120 on: April 30, 2016, 21:28:31 »
Is that someone's hill to die on? Don't do it, get charged, elect courts martial and roll the dice. :shrug: I'll spend the 5 minutes fire and forgetting one.

Offline Tcm621

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #121 on: April 30, 2016, 23:29:29 »
Those are terrible examples. The order to must wear gloves with toque is a local amplification of the dress regs, and a lawful order. Don't like it? Make it to brigade RSM and change the rule. Same thing. Ordering you to fill out a leave pass may not be required by the leave policy, but it's your CO's unit, and if s/he want to track people leaving the area on a weekend with a leave pass, that's a lawful order as well. It grinds your gears that you have to take 5 minutes to sign/submit a leave pass? You must be torqued 24/7 with all the other paperwork we have to do in the CAF...
That's not the point. The point is two fold. First don't say it is the rules when it isn't. Because if you try to charge me with AWOL when I am on weekend leave,  I'll win. Know the rules you are supposed to enforce. Second,  if you want to implement a local amplification,  by all means do so. But put in the effort to put it in writing. When your local dress instructions are cut and pasted out of the dress regs you should a) read and understand them and/or b) actually change them to reflect what you want. If the chief says put gloves on with that toque I put gloves on. When I leave the next day, I dress IAW with the dress regs. If a particularly anal chief decides to make an example out of me,  I will show up at the trail with copies of the regs,  both national and local,  and I'll win. Some of us actually read regulations and orders.


Sorry for the thread drift. If anyone wants to continue this discussion they can pm me or we can start a new thread.

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #122 on: April 30, 2016, 23:40:38 »
Quote
CONTROL DIRECTION
8. Control is exercised by local commanders
who may standardize the dress of subordinates on
any occasion, including the wear of accoutrements
and alternative or optional items, subject to overall
command direction. See also Chapter 2, Section 1,
paragraph 44.

Quote
e. Tuque. An environmental tuque may be
worn as an alternative winter headdress
with service dress (No. 3 orders), with
topcoats and parkas during winter dress
periods.

Quote
FIELD COMBAT CLOTHING
7. There are no separate dress orders since
combat clothing is designed to be adjusted for
individual comfort and tasks. However, commanders
may specify consistency if uniformity of appearance
is important on some occasions.

These are all excerpts from CFP265.

You'd also get off an AWOL charge for the leave pass thing as you were not absent without leave, as the leave policy says you don't need it. A smarter RSM would likely recommend Disobedience of a lawful command, if he didn't just give you extras knowing you were deliberately challenging the rules. Its all how the charge is written.

Offline jollyjacktar

    Looking forward to Christmas leave.

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #123 on: May 01, 2016, 06:52:25 »
Enough about the bloody dress regs already, take it to PM as offered and suggested.  Use the chat and fight there if you like...
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline Tarlouth

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #124 on: May 12, 2016, 10:58:14 »
question.

Is a leave pass required to get a pay raise and/or back pay ? Also, can a CAF member get a pay raise when a civilian who works for them is on sick leave ?

not sure of any other way to get this topic back on track  :P

« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 11:04:25 by Tarlouth »