Author Topic: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017  (Read 209460 times)

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Offline garb811

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #375 on: June 02, 2017, 23:39:24 »
Quite a substantial pay raise and back pay...  7.5k after tax backpay and 8k a year extra.

Edited for typo!
While I appreciate any raise, call me less than overwhelmed. 

The increase in the cost of living between our last pay raise and this one averaged 1.53% a year (Bank of Canada Inflation Calculator - 2013 to 2017) for a net result of a 6.28% increase in the cost of living against a base increase of just 5% and just about breaking even once the Military Factor is added in.  We still fell behind and considering this has just "caught us up" as of 1 Apr 17, we're going to keep falling behind as there is nothing in place for 1 Apr 18...and we can pretty much assume that like the last "x" number of times this has happened, it's going to be another 2-3 years before we get that one...

There shouldn't be a huge chunk of back pay, we should have had that money in our pockets well before now.  Like it or not, there is a cost to that, if for nothing less than the deferred tax implications of suddenly having a significant, unforeseen, spike in your income.  As alluded to, for people who are getting several tranches of back pay for various reasons, this is having a pretty significant impact on the money they are actually able to benefit from.  For folks paying spousal or child support, this could also result in them suddenly owing a significant amount for those issues, depending on the terms of their agreements/settlements.

I'm personally pretty tired of the "retroactivity" on everything that has crept into our pay and allowances over the past 10-15 years, including getting nailed with retroactive cancellations or decreases in allowances resulting in monies owing back to the Crown through no fault of the members. 

Offline Old EO Tech

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #376 on: June 03, 2017, 00:43:45 »
Ah! Missed it the first time

Thanks, any smart person here do a similar calculator for environmental allowances? Sea pay, LDA etc

Jon

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #377 on: June 03, 2017, 00:55:04 »
The increase in the cost of living between our last pay raise and this one averaged 1.53% a year (Bank of Canada Inflation Calculator - 2013 to 2017) for a net result of a 6.28% increase in the cost of living against a base increase of just 5% and just about breaking even once the Military Factor is added in.  We still fell behind and considering this has just "caught us up" as of 1 Apr 17, we're going to keep falling behind as there is nothing in place for 1 Apr 18...and we can pretty much assume that like the last "x" number of times this has happened, it's going to be another 2-3 years before we get that one...

Most, if not all unions settled 4 year contracts that don't expire until well into 2018.  As far as I know, all of the collective agreements will still be in force as of 1 April 2018, so a benchmark Public Service salary should be an easy calculation, making the CF wage increase an easy calculation.  The unions will start the collective bargaining process in early 2018 again.  You have to remember that the long period without anything happening resulted from a government that said "it's our way or the highway"...and that's not negotiating in good faith.

Offline Ostrozac

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #378 on: June 03, 2017, 05:19:22 »
So, just for interest's sake, this pay raise changes the threshold for making $100,000 a year base salary from Major-Basic to Capt-Incentive 8.

Of course, that's just a psychological threshold, and military personnel aren't being published in the Sunshine List, but I thought it was an interesting number.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 08:33:10 by Ostrozac »

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Pay Raise (2014 - 2016) & Back Pay
« Reply #379 on: June 03, 2017, 06:13:56 »
Time will tell... ;)

Seems you either (1) knew exactly what was going on and when or (2) made the best WAG this calendar year!   :nod:
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #380 on: June 03, 2017, 06:34:36 »
So the next question...what about times during 2014-present that we were tax free?   ???  Will our backpay for those times be tax free or will it be considered *monies earned in 2017* like we report it on our tax returns?
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 07:06:02 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Harris

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #381 on: June 03, 2017, 07:49:37 »
Further on to the last question, how is the amount handled for those currently on tax free status?  I'm guessing money earned before going tax free is still taxed.
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Offline BinRat55

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014
« Reply #382 on: June 03, 2017, 10:26:55 »
By my estimate a Sgt (4) will get a lump sum of approx. $6.6k gross at end Jun and an overall increase of approx. $350 gross per month.  Guess that is better than nothing. [;)

edit of lump sum.  I forgot to include the accum amounts.

Everyone seems to be agreeing on this math, however I seem to be a bit lost... I get a gross lump sum payment of 1900.00. Albeit I am not including all of 2016 as I retired in May 2016, but one year would not add 4 thousand dollars to my total!!! Either I am doing it wrong or you are doing it wrong.

WO 4 (about 6200.00 monthly pre-tax)

2014 -- 6200.00 X 1.25% = 77.50
77.50 x 12 = 930.00
930.00 x 30% (taxes) = 280.00
930.00 - 280.00 = 650.00

2015 -- 6277.50 X 1.25% = 78.50
78.50 X 12 = 942.00
942.00 X 30% (taxes) = 283.00
942.00 - 283.00 = 659.00

2016 -- 6356.00 X 1.25 = 79.50
79.50 X 12 = 954.00
954.00 X 30% (taxes) = 286.20
954.00 - 286.20 = 667.80

650 + 659 + 667.80 = 1976.80 Total backpay (give or take based on tax percentage)

Where am I going wrong?
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Offline BinRat55

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #383 on: June 03, 2017, 10:32:00 »
Thanks, any smart person here do a similar calculator for environmental allowances? Sea pay, LDA etc

Jon

As long as my math is correct (this is the caveat of course) I calculate that you would multiply 15 by how many months you have been receiving LDA. Example is two years. You have been in receipt of LDA for 24 months:

24 X 15.00 = 360.00

LDA increased by roughly 15 bucks a month over all incentive markers.
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Offline GD

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014
« Reply #384 on: June 03, 2017, 11:18:02 »
Everyone seems to be agreeing on this math, however I seem to be a bit lost... I get a gross lump sum payment of 1900.00. Albeit I am not including all of 2016 as I retired in May 2016, but one year would not add 4 thousand dollars to my total!!! Either I am doing it wrong or you are doing it wrong.

WO 4 (about 6200.00 monthly pre-tax)

2014 -- 6200.00 X 1.25% = 77.50
77.50 x 12 = 930.00
930.00 x 30% (taxes) = 280.00
930.00 - 280.00 = 650.00

2015 -- 6277.50 X 1.25% = 78.50
78.50 X 12 = 942.00
942.00 X 30% (taxes) = 283.00
942.00 - 283.00 = 659.00

2016 -- 6356.00 X 1.25 = 79.50
79.50 X 12 = 954.00
954.00 X 30% (taxes) = 286.20
954.00 - 286.20 = 667.80

650 + 659 + 667.80 = 1976.80 Total backpay (give or take based on tax percentage)

Where am I going wrong?




You get 1.25% first year at $77.5/month then you get another 1.25% for the second year(2015) which is $78.5/month and then another 1.25 for 2016 which is $79.5/month.

What you seem to be doing is adding the 1.25% a year without considering the previous raise.

-2014
77.5x12=930

-2015
78.5x12=942
then you add that to the 2014 raise so you get 1872 for 2015.

-2016
79.5x12=954
Then add 930(2014)+942(2015)+954(2016)=2826 for 2016

To get the total you add the raise for 2014+2015+2016

930+1872+2826=5628 for total backpay

Offline EME101

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #385 on: June 03, 2017, 12:03:16 »
Besides barely keeping up with inflation, this raise also didn't keep up with the PSAC bargaining unit that we usually benchmark against.  The Services bargaining unit contains most of the comparative civilian trades.  They received the 1.25% a year, but also got additional raises.  For example VHEs got an additional 9% market adjustment, making it that much harder to keep military Veh Techs.
These are the additional raises that they got:
Market Adjustments
Adjustments effective August 5, 2016, prior to the General Economic Increase (GEI):
FR: 15%
GL-COI: 0.5%
GL-EIM: 6%
GL-MAM: 2.5%
GL-MDO: 0.5%
GL-PIP: 2%
GL-VHE: 9%
GL-WOW: 2%
GS-group: 0.75%
HP group: 15%
Wage Adjustments
Increases effective August 5, 2016, prior to GEI:
GL-AIM: 2.5%
GL-AMW: 2.5%
GL-ELE: 0.5%
GL-GHW: 2.5%
GL-INM: 2.5%
GL-MAN: 2.5%
GL-MOC: 2.5%
GL-MST: 2.5%
GL-PCF: 0.5%
GL-PRW: 2.5%
GL-SMW: 0.5%
HS group: 0.75%
LI group: 1.5%
PR(S) group: 0.5%
SC group: 5%
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 12:07:21 by EME101 »

Offline BinRat55

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014
« Reply #386 on: June 03, 2017, 18:50:19 »



You get 1.25% first year at $77.5/month then you get another 1.25% for the second year(2015) which is $78.5/month and then another 1.25 for 2016 which is $79.5/month.

What you seem to be doing is adding the 1.25% a year without considering the previous raise.

-2014
77.5x12=930

-2015
78.5x12=942
then you add that to the 2014 raise so you get 1872 for 2015.

-2016
79.5x12=954
Then add 930(2014)+942(2015)+954(2016)=2826 for 2016

To get the total you add the raise for 2014+2015+2016

930+1872+2826=5628 for total backpay

Nope. You're wrong. You are adding your 2014 total back pay 3 times, 2015 twice. You don't get triple 2014 in 2016...

Look at it again - at 6200 a month (in 2014), should be 6277. So, 77.50 multiplied by 12 months equals 930.00. Now you ADD the 77.50 to your 6200 to begin 2015. In 2015 you are now at 6277.50 a month. Math says it SHOULD be at 6356.00. Now you add the difference again - 78.50 multiplied by 12 months (2015) and you get 942.00. Repeat: to begin 2016, add 6356 to 79.50 and you get 6435.50. This is your base pay for 2016 (not for 2014) Multiply 79.50 X 12 and your 2016 back pay is 954.00

930 (based on 1.25% of 6200.00 a month) New monthly - 6277.00
942 (based on 1.25% of 6277.00 a month) New monthly - 6356.00
954 (based on 1.25% of 6356.00 a month) New monthly - 6435.00

2826 would be your retro BEFORE taxes.  Take about 900 off that for taxes, you end with -- 1926.00
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Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #387 on: June 03, 2017, 19:23:35 »

Offline GD

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #388 on: June 03, 2017, 19:30:24 »



930 (based on 1.25% of 6200.00 a month) New monthly - 6277.00
942 (based on 1.25% of 6277.00 a month) New monthly - 6356.00
954 (based on 1.25% of 6356.00 a month) New monthly - 6435.00


You were being paid 6200/month for 2014,2015 and 2016 right? Subtract 2013 pay from 2014 pay, 2013 pay from 2015 pay etc...
Your math is correct if in 2015 you were paid 6277/month and they just have to top off that extra 1.25%.



$6200x1.0125=6277.5
6277.5-6200=77.5
77.5x12=930

You are owed $948 for 2014

in 2015:
6277.5x1.0125=6355.5
now in 2015 you were paid ~$6200/month so with this raise they would go and subtract 6200 from 6355.5

6355.5-6200=155.5
155.5x12=1866
You are owed $1866 for 2015

Now in 2016 you wrote you worked for 2 months before you retired. I am going to assume you worked till 31 may.
6355.5x1.0125=6434.94

6434.94-6200=234.94
234.94x2=~470

948+1866+470=3284
before taxes you get $3284.


Since from 2014-2016 you were paid at the same level. So in 2014 the pay raise is 1.25% at ~$77. In 2015 it was 1.25% on top of the previous 1.25% which means now you get ~77+~77 etc...

« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 19:40:38 by GD »

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #389 on: June 03, 2017, 23:01:25 »
Having just gotten my SDA Audit backpay, which was taxed at approximately 45%, I will suggest that you apply that rough number to your lump-sum payments as well.

Expect to see them take almost half.

My SDA Backpay was $5900, my 'clear' amount was $3200

That's what I expect to see here too, but my numbers are ~8600 before taxes, and about $4700 clear.

That'll pay off the visa and make a nice kick in the savings.

Also, my monthly pay will be almost $450 more....which probably means about $275 clear.  Ish.

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Offline BinRat55

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #390 on: June 04, 2017, 07:13:02 »
You were being paid 6200/month for 2014,2015 and 2016 right? Subtract 2013 pay from 2014 pay, 2013 pay from 2015 pay etc...
Your math is correct if in 2015 you were paid 6277/month and they just have to top off that extra 1.25%.



$6200x1.0125=6277.5
6277.5-6200=77.5
77.5x12=930

You are owed $948 for 2014

in 2015:
6277.5x1.0125=6355.5
now in 2015 you were paid ~$6200/month so with this raise they would go and subtract 6200 from 6355.5

6355.5-6200=155.5
155.5x12=1866
You are owed $1866 for 2015

Now in 2016 you wrote you worked for 2 months before you retired. I am going to assume you worked till 31 may.
6355.5x1.0125=6434.94

6434.94-6200=234.94
234.94x2=~470

948+1866+470=3284
before taxes you get $3284.


Since from 2014-2016 you were paid at the same level. So in 2014 the pay raise is 1.25% at ~$77. In 2015 it was 1.25% on top of the previous 1.25% which means now you get ~77+~77 etc...

You are not making one bit of sense to me. This is what I see you doing:

2014 = A
2015 = A + B
2016 = A + B + C

Total A + (A+B) + (A+B+C) = Back pay

Let's say that no matter what, our annual increase is roughly 950.00 for each of the three years.

2014 = 950.00
2015 = 950.00 + 950.00
2016 = 950.00 + 950.00 + 950.00

Total = 950.00 + 1900.00 + 2850.00 = 5700.00

This means that you will have been paid a retro payment for 2014 three times.

I still don't understand.
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Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #391 on: June 04, 2017, 07:41:14 »
1.25 back dated to 2014.  So that's three years of 1.25 and so on.

Offline BinRat55

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #392 on: June 04, 2017, 07:52:03 »
1.25 back dated to 2014.  So that's three years of 1.25 and so on.

Ahhh now THAT clears it right up for me.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #393 on: June 04, 2017, 08:57:25 »
There's a spreadsheet earlier in the thread that seems to work well.  Don't forget the 2016 1.2% X Factor as well.  I did the rough calculations on Friday manually and the spreadsheet came out with approx. the same numbers.
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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #394 on: June 04, 2017, 09:36:16 »
I did the rough calculations as well used the spreadsheet.  They were basically the same.  Probably off only because i forgot the 1.2 factor that the spreadsheet has built in.  Passed it off to a friend in the Comptroller section and the Admin O and they both confirmed the spreadsheet is accurate. 

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #395 on: June 04, 2017, 09:38:12 »
Is there a contact number or email someone could recommend that I could give to members who have left the forces to get info on this?
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #396 on: June 04, 2017, 09:46:22 »
Is there a contact number or email someone could recommend that I could give to members who have left the forces to get info on this?

Former members would be best served by contacting the Release Personnel Pay Office to inquire about their own specific case.
     o   Release Personnel Pay Office: 1-800-773-7705
     o   Email for Regular files DND.RPPOREG-LRDTSA.MDN@forces.gc.ca
     o   Email for Reserve files RPPOReserve@forces.gc.ca   

See also,

Your Pay and Allowance Increase
About the Increase
Estimates - Full-time Annual Salaries
Estimates - Part-time Daily Rates
Estimates - Monthly Allowance Rates
Estimates - Daily Allowance Rates
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-benefits/know-your-benefits-articles/pay-raise.page



« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 09:51:22 by mariomike »
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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #397 on: June 04, 2017, 13:53:34 »
You can figure this out the same way as compound interest, but roughly for the years of increase you multiply it by;

First year - monthly pay x 1.25 = difference in monthly pay for year
Second year - monthly pay x 2.52
Third year - monthly pay x 3.8
Fourth year - monthly pay x 5.09
Fifth year - monthly pay x 6.41
...
:panic: Warning!  Math ahead!

new rate = current rate *(1+annual increase)^number of years gives you overall percent
example in year two = current rate * (1 + 0.0125) ^2
                              =current rate *1.0252 = new total monthly rate

pretty decent explanation here; https://www.mathsisfun.com/money/compound-interest.html

 :geek:

Compound interest is crazy that way; an annual 1.25% increase gives you a 13% growth over 10 years.  Or do 1.5% a month (18% year) for credit card interest and you can see how fast your debt grows.

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #398 on: June 04, 2017, 17:51:26 »
Anyone know how time spent on MATA/PATA affects this back pay? No back pay for those periods of time?

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Re: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017
« Reply #399 on: June 04, 2017, 21:14:59 »
Anyone know how time spent on MATA/PATA affects this back pay? No back pay for those periods of time?

I believe (but am not certain) that,since MATA/PATA is based on prior 12 months of earnings, the top-up would be recalculated since its basis has changed.
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