Author Topic: Operating with the Danes OP Nanook/OP Qimmiq 2014  (Read 11051 times)

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Offline Chief Stoker

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Operating with the Danes OP Nanook/OP Qimmiq 2014
« on: September 27, 2014, 16:11:02 »
I recently had the opportunity to operate with the Royal Danish Navy in the Arctic off Greenland. We operated with the ships Triton and Knud Rasmussen. We did a cross pol where some of their pers are traded for the day to gain international experience with other navies. The crew of the Knud Rasmussen came on board for a simulated fire at sea to practice firefighting skills and casualty training. They have very impressive ships. The Knud Rasmussen is crewed by 17 pers, everything is automated. Their on watch engineer has a 24 hr watch and alarms are responded to when they can get there. The joys of a unionized Navy ;D











"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline cupper

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Re: Operating with the Danes OP Nanook/OP Qimmiq 2014
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2014, 18:07:34 »
Some great photos Chief. Thanks for posting up.
It's hard to win an argument against a smart person, it's damned near impossible against a stupid person.

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Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Operating with the Danes OP Nanook/OP Qimmiq 2014
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2014, 18:58:15 »
Some great photos Chief. Thanks for posting up.

They definitely have some nice Kit. We were holding our own picking through the ice flows,finally turned back North of 80.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline Flavus101

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Re: Operating with the Danes OP Nanook/OP Qimmiq 2014
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2014, 22:10:18 »
Very nice photos!  :nod:

Online Colin P

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Re: Operating with the Danes OP Nanook/OP Qimmiq 2014
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2014, 15:15:38 »
Love the last 2 pics, thee is a nice dry well lit service deck. Ours is a old seacan..... :)

Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Operating with the Danes OP Nanook/OP Qimmiq 2014
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2014, 15:30:07 »
Love the last 2 pics, thee is a nice dry well lit service deck. Ours is a old seacan..... :)

I hear you, my CO hates the sea can, especially when it seems they must of rented the worse one they had. Looks like we are getting two brand new ones for future operations, with a few mods. They come in handy as extra storage for different missions.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline cupper

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Re: Operating with the Danes OP Nanook/OP Qimmiq 2014
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2014, 19:21:54 »
I hear you, my CO hates the sea can, especially when it seems they must of rented the worse one they had. Looks like we are getting two brand new ones for future operations, with a few mods. They come in handy as extra storage for different missions.

You would think that if they were to be using modular systems in sea cans, that they would buy a few of them, paint them the appropriate colour and install the necessary equipment. Then store them when not in use after carrying out necessary maintenance and repair work in the dockyards.
It's hard to win an argument against a smart person, it's damned near impossible against a stupid person.

There is no God, and life is just a myth.

"He who drinks, sleeps. He who sleeps, does not sin. He who does not sin, is holy. Therefore he who drinks, is holy."

Let's Go CAPS!

Online Colin P

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Re: Operating with the Danes OP Nanook/OP Qimmiq 2014
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2014, 10:32:19 »
A new seacan costs about $5,000, just get a bunch shipped over and convert them. Of course we will hold on to them for 40 years and then design a cargo system based on the old design that now no uses.

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Operating with the Danes OP Nanook/OP Qimmiq 2014
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2014, 06:52:06 »
The following is reproduced, without comment, under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act, from the CASR website:

http://www.casr.ca/doc-news-navy-denmark-canada-1.htm
Quote
Arctic Cooperation – Canadian MCDV, HMCS Shawinigan, exercises with the Danish ice-resistant Patrol Vessel, the Knud Rasmussen



Recent expanisionist activites by Russia on its side of the Arctic emphasized the importance of coordination in the Arctic among Canada, Denmark, and the US. All three nations have a long-term interest in militarily monitoring our side of the strategically essential Arctic waters.

A recent example of both military monitoring and cooperation among neighbours was largely ignored in Canada. The brief exchange between two warships from the Canadian and Danish navies was, in itself, not that unusual  – the Danes have taken part in our Operation Nanook exercises for years. But this exercise almost took the form of a cultural exchange out in Baffin Bay. Yet there's no mention of the encounter in the Royal Canadian Navy's news wrap up on summer activities of a pair of Kingston class MCDVs sent up into Canada's Arctic waters.[1]

The Danish military did report on the encounter between their ice-capable patrol vessel, the HMCS Shawinigan with the Knud Rasmussen - MSPC Benny Beenfeldt/ForsvaretKnud Rasmussen, and the Canadian MCDV, HMCS Shawinigan, in mid-Sept 2014. Below is a translation of  a  Forsvaret article which describes this exchange. We have sung the praises of the Dane's Knud Rasmussen OPV before. But, perhaps, since the MCDVs now seem to be the RCN's most regularly 'visible' asset in Arctic waters, Canadians should be celebrating our Kingston class vessels too.



The Danes have described the Kingston as a minesweeper. That's one of its roles. Survey is another. And this is why the MCDVs have proved so useful in Arctic waters. Their 'Z-drive' azimuthing propellers allow Kingstons to manoeuvre in tight confines or dodge 'growlers' – and visiting Danes commented on the MCDV's extreme manoeuvrability. But the azimuthing drive also allows a Kingston to station-keep accurately above a fixed point on the sea floor. That latter capability should have made these modest little ships of great interest to Ottawa.

Mapping the Arctic sea floor serves as evidence-gathering to bolster Canada's sovereignty claims in the region. And Kingston class MCDVs are the sole Royal Canadian Navy vessel type capable of undertaking such vital work. Despite that, the Kingston class MCDVs have been largely ignored by naval planners and their political masters in Parliament. Why is that?



As usual with Canadian defence planning, the issue is funds. The Navy cancelled the planned Kingston class mid-life refit and, on several ocassions, has proposed retiring the MCDVs or reducing the number of  Kingstons. In all these cases, the Navy held the view that  'their'  money would be better spent on 'real' warships. This reflects the lack of value placed upon the MCDVs' training role, and on the Naval Reservists which make up their complement. And where is our Parliament in all this? Well, if the Navy doesn't mention it, Ottawa won't have to fund it. And, by and large, the citizens are happy with this.

It behooves the citizenry, and their Parliament,  to pay better attention. In this case, not only do these underappreciated Kingston class MCDVs perform a vital service in staking out our national claims, but their NavRes crew members are capable of delivering those services at a lower cost than 'regulars'. At least, that has been the experience of the Danish navy. Perhaps when HMCS Shawinigan and Knud Rasmussen met  in the middle of  Baffin Bay, their crews had a chance to discuss the relative merits of  naval reserves. [2]  Is it too much to hope that a similarly informed conversion about valuable assets take place in the Canadian Parliament?

-------------------------

Knud Rasmussen practicing with the Canadian minesweeper [ HMCS Shawinigan ]

Original in Danish by Forvaret: Knud Rasmussen øver sammen med Canadisk minestryger

Sep 16, 2014

In the early morning on northern Baffin Bay,  the sun shines and only a light breeze blows. The Canadian minesweeper HMCS Shawinigan, with its 45-man crew, is patrolling near the Canadian/Greenlandic boundary. Nearby, the Inspektionsfartøjet (Inspection Vessel) Knud Rasmussen is also on patrol. Suddenly, the chief of  the watch aboard the Knud Rasmussen picks up a distress call on VHF radio. A fire has broken out aboard a Greenlandic research ship. They have three wounded, one crew member missing, and require urgent assistance.

This was the start of a 'cooperation exercise'  (SAMEX) [3]  between the Knud Rasmussen and  the HMCS Shawinigan. The emergency call was simulated only for the purposes of  the exercise. The day's program also featured a replenishment-at-sea (RAS) exercise, crew exchanges, casualty exercises aboard both vessels, and, later, a photography session.

The first item on the exercise agenda was the exchange of  crew members  between the two ships. Six crew members from the Knud Rasmussen sailed over to the Shawinigan and seven Canadians came back. Tours of  these two ships were conducted throughout the morning. It was a good opportunity to experience each other's working conditions, work practices, and equipment, as well as a chance to swap a few sailors' stories over coffee. The Danish sailors found the Shawinigan crew friendly and extremely accommodating. The Danish delegation, which made a thorough tour of  the Shawinigan with demonstrations of various equipment, were allowed to manage the Canadian ship, experiencing its full manoeuvring capabilities.[4]

Canadian sailors were impressed by the conditions and equipment aboard the Danish ship. The Canadians also found it hard to hide their excitement and jealousy when they saw the Knud Rasmussen's heated hangars for RHIBs and SAR boat. [5]  Crews shared experiences and exchanged stories. It was clear, Danish and Canadian ways of thinking mesh very well.

At mid-day, the Shawinigan and Knud Rasmussen performed a replenishment-at-sea (RAS) exercise involving four close-in ship-to-ship transfers. Shawinigan simulated a very realistic accident scene for the Knud Rasmussen's emergency response teams. In this scenario, a fire raged in the Shawinigan crew cabins. Two crew members were injured and one was missing. Knud Rasmussen intervention teams consisted of  firefighters and medics.  In collaboration with the Shawinigan's own firefighting personnel, 'smokedivers'  from the Knud Rasmussen quickly got the onboard fire under control, while Danish medics took care of  the wounded. Firefighters searched the Shawinigan for the missing man, finding him in a smoke-filled area.

This was a well-planned exercise as teams from both the Shawinigan and Knud Rasmussen got a lot out of.  A second emergency simulation on the Knud Rasmussen also involved an onboard fire.  As with the first scenario, this exercise also involved several wounded and a search for a missing crew member.  Intervention teams from the Shawinigan's successfully tackled this task and, subsequently, provided very interested feedback on the actions to the Knud Rasmussen's technology officer [Teknik Officer or TKO, generally a kaptajnløjtnant ].

The day ended with the Shawinigan's emergency teams being returned to their ship in the Knud Rasmussen's SAR boat. Photographs were taken of the two vessels, and mutual thanks said for the day's exercises over the radio. For both ships' crews, it had been a long, exciting, challenging, and educational day.

-------------------------

[1] For an earlier example of  Danish-Canadian cooperation, see Northern Deployment 2009. The RCN reported on the MCDVs, HMCS Kingston and Shawinigan, both home-ported in Halifax. See Plenty of firsts in the Arctic for our Maritime Forces this summer, 30 Sept 2014.

[2] The Danish Naval Home Guard (Marinehjemmeværnet, MHV) primarily patrol their home waters and undertake maritime search-and-rescue missions. The MHV is part of  the Danish Home Guard (Hjemmeværnet, HJV). All 48,000 Danish HJV reservists are unpaid volunteers.

[3]  In Danish usage, SAMEX refers to a Samarbejdsøvelsen or cooperation exercise rather than to the naval Surface-to-Air Missile exercise associated with SAMEX in English usage.

[4] As a Kingston class MCDV, HMCS Shawinigan manoeuvres by rotating its twin Z-drive azimuthing thrusters. Z-drives also give the MCDV superior station-keeping characteristics.

[5] The Knud Rasmussen class each carry one high-speed, ice-resistance SAR boat. The 10.8 metre-long Storebro SB90E SAR boats can hit upward of 42 knots. The SAR boats in service are SAR1 Dagmar and  SAR2 Naja. Four earlier Danish LCP class SB90s lack ice-resistance.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Operating with the Danes OP Nanook/OP Qimmiq 2014
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2014, 10:20:15 »
Interesting comments on the Z drives and manoeuverability.

They were the original solution on the AOPS, copying more faithfully the NoCGV Svalbard design.   I wonder how much station time in the arctic the RCN gave up in order to increase "blue water" time and use the conventional through shaft drive.
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Online Colin P

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Re: Operating with the Danes OP Nanook/OP Qimmiq 2014
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2014, 11:05:26 »
Always fun watching a captain trying to get used to Z drives from a conventional vessel. Used to happen in the ferry fleet when a ferry went out of service and the replacement had Z drives. For awhile there some of the ferries had a bad habit of dropping their drives. But that was about 20 years ago. I suspect they have ironed out most of the issues by now.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Operating with the Danes OP Nanook/OP Qimmiq 2014
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2014, 11:40:59 »
If you think its a lot of fun with a ferry captain, you should see naval officers that have not used the system before. At least, the ferry captain is doing it "hands-on". The naval officer must pass instructions to a helms-person verbally and describe quite clearly his/her intentions.

They are however a beautiful ship handling tool.

On a slightly different note, however, the MCDVs don't really have the full dynamic positioning capacity (that is what we call the capacity to "hover" over a fixed point on the bottom of the ocean) they were intended to have because the bow-trusters required to do so have never been installed. As a result, its possible to stay reasonably on top of a given spot but a lot more difficult to do so while also maintaining a fixed heading.

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Re: Operating with the Danes OP Nanook/OP Qimmiq 2014
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2014, 16:32:31 »
That would be brutal as the response from a Z drive is much more sudden and definitive. I can just see it: Port 5, no Starboard 10, amidships, crap!, Port 5, oh crap, astern, 1/2 ahead, Crunch! 

Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Operating with the Danes OP Nanook/OP Qimmiq 2014
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2014, 18:34:54 »
Wow interesting article, I didn't realize the Danes were so impressed with our ship. I made the fire as realistic as I could, with two smoke machines going and several casualties.The Danes got one up on us when we went over when they shut off their power and we had to search their ship for a casualty. Its certainly eye opening the different DC/FF philosophies, as we never send fire fighting teams to fight fires on non HMCS ships and they do and are quite well set up for it. The article was right on the money that we were impressed, their ship was very clean as they actually wear slippers to keep down on the dirt in their flats.
Enjoy the pictures.














"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline Dimsum

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Re: Operating with the Danes OP Nanook/OP Qimmiq 2014
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2014, 19:19:49 »
That would be brutal as the response from a Z drive is much more sudden and definitive. I can just see it: Port 5, no Starboard 10, amidships, crap!, Port 5, oh crap, astern, 1/2 ahead, Crunch!

Pretty much yep, without the "crunch". 
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Operating with the Danes OP Nanook/OP Qimmiq 2014
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2014, 11:13:39 »
... we were impressed, their ship was very clean as they actually wear slippers to keep down on the dirt in their flats.
...


Many, many years ago I had a piece of kit, fairly important kit, that was a bit of a "lash up" of well known, familiar pieces, just mounted in a new vehicle. The system kept crashing ... time after time, day after day, for no easily understood reason ... very frustrating; lots of 'work arounds' worked, but I wanted to know what was wrong.

Finally it started working properly, i.e. stopped crashing. I went up top the site - hilltop in Gagetown (where, comme d'habitude, it had been raining for weeks forever). When I got to the vehicle complex I was met by a young (reserve by the way) soldier who was smiling broadly and said, "We've licked it, colonel; sit here and take off your muddy boots!" "WTF," I responded, as she handed me a pair of cloth/paper 'booties' like they wear in hospitals. "All this kit is well known to us, sir," she said, "but you know, I've never seen the ___ 610 used outside of a nice, clean, air conditioned room. Now we're in a nice, air conditioned truck, but it's not - wasn't - really clean. It occurred to me that dried dust from our muddy boots was overloading the filters and forcing shutdowns. I got some of these 'booties' from the base hospital, now supply has ordered several boxes of them for me. Once I stopped the mud from coming in it stopped drying and there was no dust to block the filters. And, voila, it works!"

And work it did, for months on end. Good thinking, good actions; damned good NCO.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Operating with the Danes OP Nanook/OP Qimmiq 2014
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2014, 12:13:35 »
I don't know how things are these days, but when I started as a mechanic, the rules on the steamers (they were steam ships then) enforced by all CERAs was very simple: You had to be able to eat off the deck plates in the Engine room or Boiler room. The EOOW, E.O. and CERA wore immaculate white coveralls.

The idea was simple: Steam leaks kill - You can't see steam leaks on dirty equipment.

On the other hand, the Danish ship is diesel, and there is something to be said, on a warship, for wearing protective footwear at all times.

Finally, on cleanliness: When we had the Gate vessels week-end in the reserves, DONNACONA had a very good reputation at RTU (A). How we kept that good rep was very easy: Our rule was that, at the end of a training week-end or longer deployment, we always returned the ship to RTU (A) personnel in a cleaner state than we got it in.

I am of the school as CO that only a clean ship can be efficient and happy.

And E.R.C., on electronics, I have a great pet peeve: What I call spaghetti: I don't believe that letting all the various type of wires in a pile and all mixed up behind the equipment helps their functioning properly/spotting problems/reducing interference. To me, they have to be properly laid out in a clean and organized fashion.
 

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Re: Operating with the Danes OP Nanook/OP Qimmiq 2014
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2014, 13:20:27 »
and on older ships, let wiring stay put after equipment is upgraded.