Author Topic: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)  (Read 682053 times)

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Offline YZT580

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2575 on: June 08, 2019, 15:03:31 »
From Flight Global, perhaps a freudian slip?
Beyond Europe, Canada and Singapore are interested in buying the F-35. Singapore plans to buy four examples initially to test, with the option to buy eight more. Canada is one of the original nine partner nations in the Joint Strike Fighter development programme, but has dithered over buying the aircraft. Quebec is expected to release a request for proposals for 88 advanced fighters as part of its Future Fighter programme in mid-2019.

Online MarkOttawa

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2576 on: June 11, 2019, 12:30:42 »
This is nuts--rating the strike mission as 3.5 times more valuable than NORAD one, which is the only crucial, non-discretionary role of RCAF fighers:

Quote
Canada puts premium on fighter jets’ ability to conduct attacks on foreign soil

The federal government’s plan to buy new fighter jets puts greater emphasis on the aircraft’s ability to conduct “strategic attacks” in foreign countries than their capacity to defend Canada and North America from enemy incursions, government documents show.

The importance awarded to the new aircraft’s offensive and first-strike capabilities abroad, rather than their defensive capabilities in places such as the Arctic, is causing concerns among some companies [emphasis added] in the running for the $19-billion contract to replace Canada’s CF-18s, industry sources said.

In particular, some manufacturers have told the government they are worried the process will end up favouring the Lockheed-Martin F-35 at the expense of bids from the Boeing Super Hornet, Saab’s Gripen and the Eurofighter Typhoon, which is built by a consortium led by Airbus. The industry sources who spoke about the matter were granted anonymity because federal rules prevent them from speaking publicly.

Federal officials said they are aware of the concerns from various aircraft manufacturers and that government experts are reviewing the evaluation grid. The government is planning to launch the competition for new fighter jets by the end of July.

“We are continuing to have discussions with the companies,” said Pat Finn, the assistant deputy minister in charge of procurement at National Defence.

He added that 80 per cent of the technical requirements are related to NORAD and NATO operations, while the rest are needed to be able to respond to government missions in hot spots around the world. “We’re in a good spot for a competition,” he said.

Canada’s defence policy, which was released in 2017, made it clear that the priority for the new fighter jets would be defending the country’s territory.

“The fighter aircraft fleet is a critical Canadian Armed Forces capability necessary to enforce Canada’s sovereignty, enable continental security, and contribute to international peace and stability,” the policy said.

David Perry, a military analyst at the Canadian Global Affairs Institute, said the acquisition process to this point gives the impression that foreign missions are more important than domestic ones.

“At the high level, the optics of the way it is presented aren’t very good at all,” he said.

The federal government’s assessment grid for the new fighter jets is based on an evaluation of all requirements worth a total of 100 points, with 60 points going to technical capabilities, 20 points to the acquisition and sustainment costs, and 20 points to the package of industrial benefits. The government has shared its draft evaluation grid with potential bidders, a copy of which was provided to The Globe and Mail.

Of the 60 points going to technical requirements, 31.5 points are based on the aircraft’s performance on six potential missions: conducting NORAD operations, intercepting a foreign aircraft carrying a cruise missile, carrying missions against maritime targets, detecting and attacking foreign aircraft such as enemy fighter jets, providing “close air support” in an attack against targets on foreign soil and participating in a “strategic attack” against a foreign country.

The first two missions, which are seen to be domestic in nature, are worth a total of 3.5 points. By contrast, the mission worth the most points (12 out of 31.5, or nearly 40 per cent of the points in this category) is the one based on an aircraft’s ability to conduct a first-strike “strategic attack” in a foreign country [emphasis added], which is known to be a forte of the F-35.

The evaluation grid has led some companies to complain to the government that the process favoured the F-35 at the expense of their aircraft, industry and government sources said.

Following complaints from the American government, the federal government changed last month the way it will evaluate the 20 points related to industrial benefits. Under a new process, Ottawa will no longer force all bidders to commit 100 per cent of the value of the aircraft’s acquisition and sustainment on spending in Canada. Instead, manufacturers will lose points in the scoring system if they do not make this commitment, but they will still be allowed to remain in the competition

Before the changes were made, the F-35 could have been automatically disqualified because the international consortium that builds the aircraft doesn’t allow for the provision of traditional industrial benefits.

Of the 20 points that are attributed to the cost of the new aircraft, 10 are determined based on the acquisition costs and 10 are determined based on the sustainment of the aircraft after their purchase.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-canada-puts-premium-on-fighter-jets-ability-to-conduct-attacks-on/

And what about ability to shoot down cruise missiles after launch? Hell, let the F-15EX into the competition.

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Offline Colin P

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2577 on: June 11, 2019, 13:27:49 »
Because historical we are an expeditionary force.

Offline AlexanderM

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2578 on: June 11, 2019, 14:10:34 »
I thought most here want the F-35, so it would be good news for the F-35.

Offline MTShaw

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2579 on: June 11, 2019, 14:13:13 »
I thought most here want the F-35, so it would be good news for the F-35.

They’d have to develop (hopefully) stealthy drop tanks.

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2580 on: June 11, 2019, 16:18:09 »
And find a way to carry a whole lot more missiles internally to be able to have real combat NORAD air intercept capability in stealth mode--if stealth is necessary for that mission for now (but what about fighter-escorted Russkie bombers, maybe Su-57 eventually?).

Mark
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Offline Colin P

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2581 on: June 12, 2019, 09:45:35 »
Particularly with modern stand off weapons, you need to intercept them in the high arctic to prevent them from getting into weapons range.

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2582 on: June 12, 2019, 16:40:33 »
And find a way to carry a whole lot more missiles internally to be able to have real combat NORAD air intercept capability in stealth mode--if stealth is necessary for that mission for now (but what about fighter-escorted Russkie bombers, maybe Su-57 eventually?).

Mark
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“Real” capability?   I didn’t know four (4) AIM-120 AMRAAMs was not a real capability.  Anyway, technology exists to increase the AIM-120 load out to six (6): https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/amp27347465/f-35-missile-increase/

This compares to zero (0) stealthy-stowed missiles on any other contender...mathematically, this makes the F-35 ‘infinitely’ better. ;)

Regards
G2G

Offline Thucydides

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2583 on: June 13, 2019, 20:25:06 »
There does not seem to be any reason that the stealthy "pod" featured on the Advanced Super Hornet concept aircraft (which allows stealth carriage of either external fuel or weapons) could not be adapted for the F-35, answering most objections.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2584 on: June 13, 2019, 20:28:38 »
Might could be a bit difficult to launch G2G's AMRAAMs from the internal weapons bay with that thing attached. 

But I'm no expert.   ;D
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2585 on: June 13, 2019, 20:43:48 »
Might could be a bit difficult to launch G2G's AMRAAMs from the internal weapons bay with that thing attached. 

But I'm no expert.   ;D

The weapons in the pod would be expended first, then the pod dropped to reveal the internal bay. This way you always fly with the wings in a "clean" configuration, and don't excessively increase the RCS by carrying underwing stores.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.