Author Topic: TOW is Back  (Read 34175 times)

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Offline dangerboy

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TOW is Back
« on: March 22, 2016, 13:07:03 »
Today is a good day for the Infantry Corps, for the first time in a long time members of the Infantry School fired TOW missiles as part of the reintroduction of the TOW weapons system.

This TOW system is not your old crusty WO's TOW system, to start off with it is now has the capability to fire wireless missiles (which is what were fired today, TOW 2A RF). So the acronym is now Tube launched Optically tracked Wireless (TOW). The sighting system has also changed we are now using the Improved Target Acquisition System (ITAS) which has a combined optical and thermal sight and a laser range finder which combined with the Far Target Locater allows us to get the grid of the target, vastly improving our SENSE capability.

Unfortunately the system is only dismounted at this time, but having a dismounted capability only is better than having no capability at all.  It can only get better from here. 
All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us... they can't get away this time.
- Lt Gen Lewis B. Puller, USMC

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2016, 13:11:50 »
Yes, yes... But what about Sam Browne belts? That is what will be decisive in any future war.  :nod:

Just kidding.

Good on the Army on getting serious about warfare again.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2016, 13:13:04 »
Today is a good day for the Infantry Corps, for the first time in a long time members of the Infantry School fired TOW missiles as part of the reintroduction of the TOW weapons system.

This TOW system is not your old crusty WO's TOW system, to start off with it is now has the capability to fire wireless missiles (which is what were fired today, TOW 2A RF). So the acronym is now Tube launched Optically tracked Wireless (TOW). The sighting system has also changed we are now using the Improved Target Acquisition System (ITAS) which has a combined optical and thermal sight and a laser range finder which combined with the Far Target Locater allows us to get the grid of the target, vastly improving our SENSE capability.

Unfortunately the system is only dismounted at this time, but having a dismounted capability only is better than having no capability at all.  It can only get better from here.

Pictures or it didn't happen ;)
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Offline dangerboy

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2016, 13:14:23 »
All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us... they can't get away this time.
- Lt Gen Lewis B. Puller, USMC

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2016, 13:29:38 »
I thought there were TOW's in some of the LAV's? No?
Please tell me that you were not forced to transport that out to the range in the back of a pickup truck?

The bags of salt are for what? Very curious...
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Offline ueo

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2016, 13:35:05 »
Weight to stabilize the firing unit. Used to use sandbags.
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Offline Flavus101

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2016, 13:39:55 »
This is very good news!

Offline dangerboy

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2016, 13:58:21 »
I thought there were TOW's in some of the LAV's? No?


There was, when the TOW was scrapped around 2012, they were removed from the LAVs and the hulls were used for other things (I don't know exactly where the hulls went).
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2016, 14:22:09 »


What's all that white crap on the ground?
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2016, 14:40:40 »
What's all that white crap on the ground?

Potato flakes? They forgot to clean the range after they rented it out to a movie shoot.  [:D

Offline MCG

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2016, 14:50:38 »
There was, when the TOW was scrapped around 2012, they were removed from the LAVs and the hulls were used for other things (I don't know exactly where the hulls went).
The LAV III TUA became the rare LAV III RWS variant.  I suspect they will go (or have gone) through the LAV-UP program to become some more common variant of LAV 6.0.

Offline RCPalmer

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2016, 15:00:41 »
Cool! 

Hopefully this is part of a broader program to re-introduce a robust anti-armor capability to the Infantry Corps generally.  Is there any new doctrine in process (re-introduction of Anti-Armor Platoons, etc.)?  If it is not appropriate for public consumption, DWAN links would also be appreciated.

Offline Infanteer

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2016, 15:14:12 »
Very good news.  Next up, mortars!  ;)
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Offline MedCorps

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2016, 15:22:51 »
For those that are flowing the Army "light operations" concept / project this is a clear indicator and warning. The Light Operations folk keep talking about stuff... crazy stuff... one of those things is dismounted TOW coming back, who which the bulk of people have been calling BS.

Right behind TOW in all their conversations is pioneers (although they want to call it something "less polarizing").

No joke. If this indeed the tripwire then some really neat things are about to happen in the army.

MC

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2016, 15:59:43 »
With TOW coming back and the push for the Sam Browne belts can we expect to be issued a batman?
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2016, 16:11:25 »
How many times do we have to tell you Army guys ?

No aircraft carrier, no bat man, period.  [:D


Offline Loachman

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2016, 16:14:41 »
The LAV III TUA became the rare LAV III RWS variant.  I suspect they will go (or have gone) through the LAV-UP program to become some more common variant of LAV 6.0.

All of the LAV 6.0 are, in reality, almost completely new. That includes hulls and turrets. Very little from the original vehicles survives into the new ones.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2016, 16:28:56 »
Very good news.  Next up, mortars!  ;)

And trucks that don't squeak!
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Offline ArmyRick

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2016, 16:47:40 »
Whats the range on the new TOW missiles?
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Offline Loachman

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2016, 16:48:25 »
A lot of those trucks don't squeak anymore.

They don't even move.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2016, 16:50:15 »
Whats the range on the new TOW missiles?

Unclas sources suggest just under 4km.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGM-71_TOW#Variants
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Offline MCG

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2016, 17:31:25 »
All of the LAV 6.0 are, in reality, almost completely new. That includes hulls and turrets. Very little from the original vehicles survives into the new ones.
Yes, but you cannot make a LAV 6 without the licence plate of an existing LAV.  It is the magic component.

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2016, 17:33:35 »
Outstanding Danger!!

Now....which reserve Regiments will be chosen to man it????
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Offline Inky

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2016, 17:35:52 »
With TOW coming back and the push for the Sam Browne belts can we expect to be issued a batman?

No intent to derail but is the Sam Browne comment a rumour or I'd there a source for actual reintroduction of the belt?

On subject:I look forward to siting a defensive position that doesn't have to wait till enemy MBTS are within bayonet range before engaging armor.

Offline cupper

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2016, 17:36:14 »
What's all that white crap on the ground?

Sand.

They are actually on a white sand beach. Just faking the winter conditions. Like the moon landings.

And the bags of salt are for the margaritas to sip while relaxing on the beach after the firing exercise.
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Offline Ostrozac

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2016, 19:20:58 »
Well, TOW never lost it's place on the battlefield (see Syria) -- and Canada completely abandoning all ATGM capability always seemed a very, very confusing thing to me.

I'm very happy to see TOW back.

Offline Thucydides

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2016, 21:27:48 »
While I am glad TOW is back, it says a lot that we are cheering for the return of a 1960's era weapons system, when we should be pushing for more modern, longer range and harder hitting weapons like ground launched HELLFIRE, BRIMESTONE or one of the various FOG-M systems out on the market.

Of course we should also be pushing for a multitude of other things as well (especially weapons systems that provide a "layered" defense against mechanized and motorized forces), but that is another issue for another thread.
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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2016, 10:26:54 »
I take the modernized TOW in the hand over some fancy system in the bush. Eventually the TOWS can be pushed down to the Reserves when we get the newer systems. But before that, more mortars, pioneers, howitzers and trucks.

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2016, 10:30:38 »
I take the modernized TOW in the hand over some fancy system in the bush. Eventually the TOWS can be pushed down to the Reserves when we get the newer systems. But before that, more mortars, pioneers, howitzers and trucks.

Good news on that front as well.

Pioneer capability is being returned to the Infantry although we can't call it that.  Breachers I think is the term now.  Mortars are also coming back but likely not to the infantry reserve as they want the reserve artillery to keep that.  some chages to the composituion of light companies and batallions as well.
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Offline Fabius

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2016, 11:08:58 »
I am also happy to see an anti-armour capability returning, but I am only cautiously optimistic right now with this.  There are a lot of details which need to hammered out (manning, ORBAT, TO&E, mobility, qualification standards, training resources, etc.) to turn this into an actual capability vice just another pile of parts in a CQ's cage gathering dust.
Given the army's performance with turning the C-16 into a capability to date...  We will see.
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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2016, 11:37:17 »
Well at least there is a large number of recent "training video's" on Youtube the new gunners can watch and learn from.

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2016, 12:18:01 »
If the TOW is back in the armoury, with the sights and paraphernalia, and if the budget is constrained is it a cost-effective option to consider adding a pair of TOWs to some portion of the Delco turrets on the LAV fleet?

This would be in addition to maintaining the pintle/tripod mount capability for the light troops.
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2016, 12:21:34 »
I am also happy to see an anti-armour capability returning, but I am only cautiously optimistic right now with this.  There are a lot of details which need to hammered out (manning, ORBAT, TO&E, mobility, qualification standards, training resources, etc.) to turn this into an actual capability vice just another pile of parts in a CQ's cage gathering dust.
Given the army's performance with turning the C-16 into a capability to date...  We will see.

What proportion of the C-16s went to LAV battalions?  Do they have a role there?  Or do the LAV battalions prepare for dismounted operations without their LAVs where they could use the C16s to cover off some of the capabilities lost when the Bushmasters aren't available?
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Offline Fabius

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2016, 13:20:56 »
I believe the infantry companies in the LAV Bns have 3 x C-16s allocated ( I could be slightly wrong here).  Due to their size and sustainment requirements they don't really have a role when the company is mounted in the LAVs as they don't offer anything additional in terms of firepower over the bushmaster and and can only be employed while static and dismounted.  Further the C-16s are not grouped together and allocated to a Wpns Pl or anything similar IOT mass capability.

If the company is operating without its LAVs then your right the C-16 does fill the void left by the absence of the bushmaster but without a means of moving it and its ammo (manpacking it is not really a true option) we don't really have a way to employ them except on a static defensive position (which is also the one place where a dismounted TOW with no internal combustion engine mobility will be useful).  Various ideas where tried initially but nothing stuck to become doctrine or SOP within the Mech Bns to my knowledge.

For the TOW and C-16, honestly an iltis/TOW setup from days past seems like a decent concept for the light Bns if we can accept that it does not have armour.  Not sure if a G Wagon could be set up that way, center of gravity seems like it would be too high. Might be doable on a TAPV.
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2016, 14:02:43 »
I think you are probably closer with the Iltis than the GWagen.  As you say the GWagen migrates to the TAPV which is no more useful in a Light setting than the LAV.  If you can't get a LAV into the game you probably can't get a TAPV into the  game either - and if you can then you end up with a less capable platform if you go with the TAPV over the LAV, IMO.

On the other hand, if all you are wanting is to add an internal combustion engine to increase portability then Outlanders, Argos, Rzrs and Dagors may be all you need.

Your comment about massing the C16, in my opinion also applies to the LAVs and the Dismounts.  I continue in my belief that the LAVs and the Dismounts should be separated within the battalion into separate entities, either as a LAV company and  2 or 3 rifle companies within the battalion or as LAV platoons within the Rifle Coys.

In my opinion the LAV supplies the capabilities of at least three of the platoons in a "conventional" light battalion.  It supplies transport, as would the Motor Transport Platoon.  It supplies the suppressive fire of a GPMG-SF Platoon.   It supplies the heavy direct fire support of an HMG/GMG Platoon.  And if the LAVs had TOWs mounted it would also supply the Heavy Anti-Tank support of the AT Platoon.

The Man Power of those four platoons could justifiably be grouped into a LAV company - if the sock could be un-knitted and the components returned to their primary functions.

In a light infantry battalion the drivers hang with the drivers, the MG guys hang together and the AT guys hang together.

In a LAV battalion each LAV requires one driver and one or two bodies from the direct fire support platoons.

In a light battalion with ATVs the DFS teams could be reduced to two men and an engine with the gunner being the commander, the assistant gunner being the driver and engine making up for all those ammunition bearers historically necessary in a light unit.
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Offline Tow Tripod

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2016, 14:44:27 »
Truly a great day for the Infantry Corps.... The decision to rid the battalions of TOW was an error that only now is being rectified.
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Offline dangerboy

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2016, 14:56:35 »
Video of one of the missiles being shot: https://amp.twimg.com/v/410376d6-26e3-4536-8454-fb14ccae832a
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Offline Haligonian

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2016, 19:38:04 »
It's true this is big new, but we still need to figure out how we're going to man these things.  We can't man sections and weapons dets in coy's let alone stand up an AA pl.

While I am glad TOW is back, it says a lot that we are cheering for the return of a 1960's era weapons system, when we should be pushing for more modern, longer range and harder hitting weapons like ground launched HELLFIRE, BRIMESTONE or one of the various FOG-M systems out on the market.

Of course we should also be pushing for a multitude of other things as well (especially weapons systems that provide a "layered" defense against mechanized and motorized forces), but that is another issue for another thread.

Good point but I think TOW is a  'good enuff' solution for now.

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2016, 20:00:09 »
It's true this is big new, but we still need to figure out how we're going to man these things.  We can't man sections and weapons dets in coy's let alone stand up an AA pl.

Good point but I think TOW is a  'good enuff' solution for now.

I suggest you prioritize the AA Platoon, using a conventional Rifle Platoon manning system, then you can employ them as a standard Rifle Platoon when you don't need them as an AA Pl.

Same thing for the Pioneers, Recce and even the Mortars.

Ditch one of the Rifle Coys if you have to.  I think I have heard others around here make similar suggestions.
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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2016, 20:10:47 »
Ditch one of the Rifle Coys  Unit Public Affairs' Rep, IA Coys, HAZMAT reporter... if you have to. 
Your autocorrect focused on the war-fighters.  :whistle:

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2016, 20:15:12 »
Please don't tell me there are 9 coys worth of those wogs floating around.

Next thing you'll be telling me that you have an Occupational Health and Safety rep on strength.

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Offline MCG

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2016, 21:30:35 »
It's true this is big new, but we still need to figure out how we're going to man these things. 
You are going to shut-down a rifle company in each brigade.  In return each brigade will get a mortar platoon, a heavy direct fire platoon (TOW & C-16), and pioneers.

       

... and all of these changes are occurring specifically in the light battalions.

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2016, 23:27:38 »
You are going to shut-down a rifle company in each brigade.  In return each brigade will get a mortar platoon, a heavy direct fire platoon (TOW & C-16), and pioneers.

       

... and all of these changes are occurring specifically in the light battalions.

I would hate to be in the 8-man mortar platoon, heavy direct fire platoon (TOW & C-16), or pioneer platoon, that's a lot of humping... Not sure the exact numbers we are talking here to man those 3x specific platoons, but it would seriously take all 3x rifle coys from a light battalion to legit man 3x platoons.
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Offline Tow Tripod

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2016, 10:55:27 »
Without a doubt the Cyberwarfare anylist that will appear in the near future will be bayonets taken out of the Infantry Battalions. How do we protect from depleting the Infantry Regiments of internal assets and assist the CF in establishing new Units? You know if the Americans are implementing CYBER Warfare Units it wont be to long before we will be doing the same.
 https://marinecorpsconceptsandprograms.com/organizations/operating-forces/us-marine-corps-forces-cyberspace-marforcyber

The gutting of TOW, Pioneers and Mortars from the Battalions must be viewed as an error that we should not repeat... 
TOW TRIPOD

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2016, 11:07:07 »
Nah, they'll likely triple task Sigs guys to do it, it'll be a side job between moving Bde main, making coffee, and ensuring DWAN is up and running.

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2016, 18:22:39 »
Without a doubt the Cyberwarfare anylist that will appear in the near future will be bayonets taken out of the Infantry Battalions. How do we protect from depleting the Infantry Regiments of internal assets and assist the CF in establishing new Units? You know if the Americans are implementing CYBER Warfare Units it wont be to long before we will be doing the same.
 https://marinecorpsconceptsandprograms.com/organizations/operating-forces/us-marine-corps-forces-cyberspace-marforcyber

The gutting of TOW, Pioneers and Mortars from the Battalions must be viewed as an error that we should not repeat...

I think the role of Cyberwarfare Analyst demands at least a Captain or a Warrant Officer.  I understand there are a lot of them in circulation. 
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline Thucydides

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2016, 12:56:19 »
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, shifting riflemen to high value position like Combat Support Company has far more value added than just adding more riflemen. This is an echo of the debate about breaking up Machinegun Battalions in the Great War to flesh out Infantry units, the massive loss of firepower would be in no way offset by having more files in an Infantry battalion.

For the foreseeable future, I would suggest that every battalion have one fully fleshed out rifle coy as their QRF, a second coy to house people on courses, administrative issues etc. and have two other "shadow" rifle companies made up of reservists on callup. The actual HR division can have them as full time class whatever, while the other two divs can have them on standby, training rotations and so on. The main argument here is where the leaership is going to come from (Reservists will certainly say their own people should be Pl Comds, 2I/C's, OC's etc., while there is a much stronger argument that the bulk of the leadership positions should be Regular Force).

Regardless of how that argument is resolved, there will be little difficulty in finding 200+ reserve bodies per division to create two rifle Coys (Indeed you will probably ahve to fend people off with a stick), so the things that must be manned are always covered, and with proper lead time and planning we can fill all the files in a proper infantry battalion.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2016, 14:36:44 »
and have a portion of the equipment for those shadow companies in stock, so if you can raise a company, part of the equipment is there right away. It can also be a reserve stockpile that can be cycled through by the Reg companies. A couple of positions for the shadow companies that would allow injured soldiers to stay in the Battalion and perhaps a couple of rotating Class B's to have a bit of reserve "ownership" in the process. 

Offline Loch Sloy!

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2016, 15:47:05 »
Quote
The main argument here is where the leaership is going to come from (Reservists will certainly say their own people should be Pl Comds, 2I/C's, OC's etc., while there is a much stronger argument that the bulk of the leadership positions should be Regular Force).

Given that reserve infantry officers do the same training as their RegF counterparts any argument against reserve Inf Pl Comds cannot truly be "much stronger". In fact given that many of the reserve NCMs filling those companies would be people those Pl Comds (and WOs and OCs for that matter) will have known and trained with for years there would be some fairly compelling arguments for ensuring that they do end up in those leadership positions.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords.
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Offline dangerboy

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2016, 15:50:46 »
Given that reserve infantry officers do the same training as their RegF counterparts any argument against reserve Inf Pl Comds cannot truly be "much stronger". I

In the beginning, however most reserve officers do not do DP1.2 (the mechanized phase) which all regular force officers do.
All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us... they can't get away this time.
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Offline Loch Sloy!

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2016, 16:35:20 »
Quote
In the beginning, however most reserve officers do not do DP1.2 (the mechanized phase) which all regular force officers do.

I would think that the reserve companies inside HR battalions would likely be light Inf rather than mech anyway? If not then send the few PRes leaders needed on their IODP1.2 or crew commander course as required. Sending a guy on a course to enable a specific task seems a lot more efficient than playing a shell game of pilfering people from other battalions. Building more capacity in the reserve force wouldn't hurt either.

We are hearing that the Reg Force battalions (out west anyway) are hurting for junior officers as much as for NCMs at the moment. PRes leadership positions to round out HR taskings might end up being a necessity regardless of any argument.

I didn't mean to drift the discussion too far off topic. Very happy to hear about the revival of an ATGM capacity in the CF, and would love to see us round TOW out with something man portable like Javelin and perhaps also (please God) a modern 60mm mortar back to the light infantry.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords.
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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #51 on: March 31, 2016, 16:58:36 »
We are hearing that the Reg Force battalions (out west anyway) are hurting for junior officers as much as for NCMs at the moment.

Not true.
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #52 on: March 31, 2016, 17:10:38 »
Yes, but you cannot make a LAV 6 without the licence manufacturer's data plate of an existing LAV.  It is the magic component.

FTFY, MCG.  CFR plates can on rare occasion be moved around...a builder's data plate is forever.*


Regards
G2G


* unless the vehicle is literally a complete loss, then you stamp another one, and 'rebuild' the vehicle.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #53 on: March 31, 2016, 17:22:09 »
Quote from: Thucydides

For the foreseeable future, I would suggest that every battalion have one fully fleshed out rifle coy as their QRF, a second coy to house people on courses, administrative issues etc. and have two other "shadow" rifle companies made up of reservists on callup.

Bringing in a bunch of reservists on a year+ contract shouldn't be too hard. The real issues I think would be physical fitness, some work and leadership ethics and the cost IF the CAF pays for food and quarters for the duration.

I don't believe a company dedicated to members on course would work however. We will often walk into a room last minute, find a suitable candidate and put them on a driver wheel, comms, recce course for a few weeks then they are back in the company to deploy to Wainwright, Norway, where ever.   Career courses can come out of the blue as well as specialty courses. A separate company would be added, constant paperwork.   Getting off topic though sorry.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #54 on: March 31, 2016, 20:13:44 »
Bringing in a bunch of reservists on a year+ contract shouldn't be too hard. The real issues I think would be physical fitness, some work and leadership ethics and the cost IF the CAF pays for food and quarters for the duration.

If there was an operational tasking for the reserves to provide fit and well trained members to augment the Reg F on a regular basis, we could fairly easily realign our training to put people on a skills and fitness on ramp. Kind of like during the AFG adventure...

If it was all done the usual way e.g., no guarantees and off the cuff, you'll likely get a higher level of garbage in.
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline MilEME09

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2016, 14:29:32 »
If there was an operational tasking for the reserves to provide fit and well trained members to augment the Reg F on a regular basis, we could fairly easily realign our training to put people on a skills and fitness on ramp. Kind of like during the AFG adventure...

If it was all done the usual way e.g., no guarantees and off the cuff, you'll likely get a higher level of garbage in.

I'm inclined to agree, give the reserves a purpose/goal to move towards, and they will do their best to reach it, however without a reason to do something, it's not likely to get done or have good results.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #56 on: April 01, 2016, 17:16:02 »
If there was an operational tasking for the reserves to provide fit and well trained members to augment the Reg F on a regular basis, we could fairly easily realign our training to put people on a skills and fitness on ramp. Kind of like during the AFG adventure...

If it was all done the usual way e.g., no guarantees and off the cuff, you'll likely get a higher level of garbage in.

Agree 100%  Also regs get 2 paid hours a day to work out and shower afterwards. Harder to do with a full time job or school.
Giving someone 6 months work up training brings them up to a good level of fitness, it's the last minute CFTPO "who wants to go somewhere in 2 weeks" where it really stands out.
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Offline RCPalmer

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Re: TOW is Back
« Reply #57 on: April 01, 2016, 18:03:02 »
If there was an operational tasking for the reserves to provide fit and well trained members to augment the Reg F on a regular basis, we could fairly easily realign our training to put people on a skills and fitness on ramp. Kind of like during the AFG adventure...

If it was all done the usual way e.g., no guarantees and off the cuff, you'll likely get a higher level of garbage in.

This is becoming a real problem.  We need some focus and predictability to be built into the planning cycle.  The current model of scrambling to fill every last minute CFTPO task is really not setting up reserve force pers for success, resulting in unsatisfactory conditions for both the member and the gaining unit.  While we can provide a lot of people and capabilities in a real emergency (like a DOMOP), we set ourselves up for failure when we apply that model to routine training and operations.