Author Topic: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general  (Read 181557 times)

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Then again, there may be lower-risk options out there being run up the political flag pole to see who salutes ...
Quote
A major component of the Liberal government's plan to return Canada to peacekeeping involves using Canadian soldiers to train and mentor other, less experienced United Nations forces, say defence and government sources.

The strategy, which would possibly be employed in some of the most dangerous parts of Africa, is a departure from traditional peacekeeping, which is popular in the public imagination.

And in the opinion of some defence experts, it bears some resemblance to the kind of capacity-building counter-insurgency mission the Canadian Forces carried out in Afghanistan for the better part of a decade.

"Capacity in training is a strength for Canada," said one official, who was unable to speak on the record because of the sensitivity of the file.

It is likely one of the reasons the Liberal government believes it must prepare the public for the risks of "modern peacekeeping."

Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland is slated to give a major foreign policy address in a few weeks' time, which will open the door to the delivery of the long-awaited defence policy review on June 7.

But it will also prepare the public for peacekeeping missions that could cost lives ...
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
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Offline Chris Pook

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Then again, there may be lower-risk options out there being run up the political flag pole to see who salutes ...


Quote
A major component of the Liberal government's plan to return Canada to peacekeeping involves using Canadian soldiers to train and mentor other, less experienced United Nations forces, say defence and government sources.

The strategy, which would possibly be employed in some of the most dangerous parts of Africa, is a departure from traditional peacekeeping, which is popular in the public imagination.

And in the opinion of some defence experts, it bears some resemblance to the kind of capacity-building counter-insurgency mission the Canadian Forces carried out in Afghanistan for the better part of a decade.

"Capacity in training is a strength for Canada," said one official, who was unable to speak on the record because of the sensitivity of the file.

It is likely one of the reasons the Liberal government believes it must prepare the public for the risks of "modern peacekeeping."

Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland is slated to give a major foreign policy address in a few weeks' time, which will open the door to the delivery of the long-awaited defence policy review on June 7.

But it will also prepare the public for peacekeeping missions that could cost lives ...

Well, on the good news front, I sense at least a change in the dialogue.  Imagination from myth from legend from history.  The chattering classes seem to be getting a better grip on what is reality and what is propaganda.

On the issue of Trainers for benighted places:  That manual has already been written.

Quote
Rudyard Kipling


Pharaoh and the Sergeant

                            1897

 ". . . Consider that the meritorious services of the Sergeant Instructors
 attached to the Egyptian Army haue been inadequately acknowledged. . . .
 To the excellence of their work is mainly due the great improvement that has
 taken place in the soldiers of H.H. the Khedive
."

                          Extract from Letter.

Said England unto Pharaoh, "I must make a man of you,
  That will stand upon his feet and play the game;
That will Maxim his oppressor as a Christian ought to do,"
  And she sent old Pharaoh Sergeant Whatisname.
    It was not a Duke nor Earl, nor yet a Viscount --
      It was not a big brass General that came;
    But a man in khaki kit who could handle men a bit,
      With his bedding labelled Sergeant Whatisname.

Said England unto Pharaoh,  "Though at present singing small,
  You shall hum a proper tune before it ends,"
And she introduced old Pharaoh to the Sergeant once for all,
  And left 'em in the desert making friends.
    It was not a Crystal Palace nor Cathedral;
      It was not a public-house of common fame;
    But a piece of red-hot sand, with a palm on either hand,
      And a little hut for Sergeant Whatisname.

Said England unto Pharaoh, "You 've had miracles before,
  When Aaron struck your rivers into blood;
But if you watch the Sergeant he can show vou something more.                                   '
  He's a charm for making riflemen from mud."
    It was neither Hindustani, French, nor Coptics;
      It was odds and ends and leavings of the same,
    Translated by a stick (which is really half the trick),
      And Pharaoh harked to Sergeant Whatisname.

(There were y ears that no one talked of; there were times of horrid doubt --
  There was faith and hope and whacking and despair --
While the Sergeant gave the Cautions and he combed old Pharaoh out,
  And England didn't seem to know nor care.
    That is England's awful way o' doing business --
      She would serve her God (or Gordon) just the same --
    For she thinks her Empire still is the Strand and Hol born Hill,
      And she didn't think of Sergeant Whatisname.)

Said England to the Sergeant, "You can let my people go!"
   (England used 'em cheap and nasty from the start),
And they entered 'em in battle on a most astonished foe --
   But the Sergeant he had hardened Pharaoh's heart
     Which was broke, along of all the plagues of Egypt,
       Three thousand years before the Sergeant came
     And he mended it again in a little more than ten,
       Till Pharaoh fought like Sergeant Whatisname.

It was wicked bad campaigning (cheap and nasty from the first),
  There was heat and dust and coolie-work and sun,
There were vipers; flies, and sandstorms, there was cholera and thirst,
  But Pharaoh done the best he ever done.
    Down the desert, down the railway, down the river,
      Like Israelites From bondage so he came,
    'Tween the clouds o' dust and fire to the land of his desire,
      And his Moses, it was Sergeant Whatisname!

We are eating dirt in handfuls for to save our daily bread,
  Which we have to buy from those that hate us most,
And we must not raise the money where the Sergeant raised the dead,
  And it's wrong and bad and dangerous to boast.
    But he did it on the cheap and on the quiet,
    And he's not allowed to forward any claim --
  Though he drilled a black man white, though he made a mummy fight,
    He will still continue Sergeant Whatisname --
  Private, Corporal, Colour-Sergeant, and Instructor --
    But the everlasting miracle's the same!

https://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/pharaoh_and_sergeant.html


"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

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Well, on the good news front, I sense at least a change in the dialogue ...
At least on the part of the mystery folk quoted, anyway.
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
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Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, does this mean any announcement'll wait until the fall now?
Quote
Canada has a long and proud history of peacekeeping. For decades, brave Canadian women and men have put themselves in harm’s way to protect the world’s most vulnerable civilians – including women, children, and marginalized groups.

Defence Minister Harjit S. Sajjan was at the United Nations (UN) Headquarters in New York, today to launch the 2017 UN Peacekeeping Defence Ministerial. The conference will be held in Vancouver, British Columbia, on November 14-15. Approximately 500 delegates from 70 countries are expected to participate in the discussions.

Building on the successes of previous events held in New York and London, the 2017 UN Peacekeeping Defence Ministerial will review current contributions by UN members, and most importantly, secure pledges to meet the current and future needs of UN peacekeeping operations.

During his visit, the Minister also met with UN Under-Secretary General for Peacekeeping Operations Jean-Pierre Lacroix, UN Under-Secretary General for Field Support Atul Khare, Canada’s Ambassador to the UN Marc-André Blanchard, and representatives of the ten countries co-hosting this year’s Defence Ministerial. Canada hopes that these co-hosts will play a key role leading up to the conference, by chairing meetings to identify and prepare key deliverables for the 2017 Ministerial.

Quotes

    “Canada is doing its part to make the world a more peaceful and prosperous place for everyone. And we are committed to increasing our engagement in peace support operations.  The 2017 UN Peacekeeping Defence Ministerial is one component of our engagement with the UN and I look forward to welcoming defence counterparts to Canada later this year.”

    - Defence Minister Harjit S. Sajjan

Quick Facts

    Ten countries will serve as co-hosts for the 2017 UN Peacekeeping Defence Ministerial: Bangladesh, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Japan, Netherlands, Pakistan, Rwanda, Uruguay, the United States, and the United Kingdom. Co-hosts will work closely with Canada and the UN to organize meetings to prepare the ground for the Ministerial.

    On November 14, Canada will host a series of events called “Focus on Peacekeeping”. While not a part of the official conference, these events will complement the Ministerial, they will be geared towards a broad audience, and will explore several different themes to underline the importance of a comprehensive approach to peacekeeping.

    On November 15, four plenary sessions will be held on:
        Integration of gender perspectives into peacekeeping: How to empower women, and take gender perspectives into account in all aspects of peacekeeping, to achieve better results on the ground.
        Innovation in training and capacity building: How to strengthen partnerships between UN, troop- and police-contributing countries, and other actors, to improve outcomes of peacekeeping operations.
        Protecting those at risk: How to ensure that high-level strategies align with the realities on the ground, while acknowledging that the success of UN peacekeeping should be measured by its impact on those we seek to protect.
        Early warning and rapid deployment: How to better identify and analyze emerging conflicts, while making sure key decision makers are informed in a timely manner so they can plan their response more quickly. During the Ministerial, Member States will also provide new pledges to meet the UN's rapid deployment requirement for 2017-18.

    Today, Canada is active in a number of United Nations peace support operations, including those in Haiti, South Sudan, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Cyprus and the Middle East ...
:pop:
Meanwhile, from one of the main contender countries ...
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
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Barely any tea leaves to read from the DefMin's latest speech this week -- highlights mine ...
Quote
On May 24, 2017, Defence Minister Harjit S. Sajjan spoke in front of the International Peace Institute. He discussed the future of UN peacekeeping operations and the role of the 2017 UN peacekeeping Defence Ministerial conference in support of improving such operations. The Conference will be hosted in Vancouver on November 14-15 2017.

Opening remarks were provided by Mr. Atul Khare, UN Under-Secretary-General for Field Support. The event was moderated by Dr. Adam Lupel, Vice President, International Peace Institute.

    Under-Secretary-General Khare…
    Your Excellencies…
    Dr. Lupel…
    And members of the International Peace Institute,

Thank you for your warm welcome and hospitality. I am delighted to spend the International Day of United Nations Peacekeepers with those who are so committed to preventing and resolving global conflicts.

I am reminded that the best way we can honour the dedication and courage of our peacekeepers is to take up their cause with renewed determination. It is clear to me that the International Peace Institute does that every day.

I applaud IPI for its leadership in advancing global peace and security. Your work is inspiring. It is work that has contributed enormously to our understanding of conflict prevention, mediation and post-conflict reconstruction.

The increasing complexity of the UN’s engagements, has reinforced that fact that, now more than ever, we must collectively work toward the common goal of spreading peace and stability throughout the world.

No nation can rest on its laurels or just repeat what worked in the past.

Peace operations today are more complex than they were during the early days of the ‘Blue Helmets’. So our response to this new reality must evolve, as well.

We know we must reform UN peacekeeping to meet the demand for it now and in the future. The challenge, as always, is in deciding what those reforms should be and how we implement them.

Over the last two years, the UN has begun answering these questions. Several major reviews from across the peace operations spectrum have produced recommendations of how we can progress.

Secretary-General Gueterres has also set high standards in his initial steps to increase coherence and effectiveness in the UN system.

He recently said that the interconnected nature of today’s crises requires us to connect our own efforts for peace and security, sustainable development, and human rights. Not just in words, but in practice, as well.

Canadazagrees and is encouraged by his ambitious reform agenda. We also recognize that the reform agenda is but one piece of a larger puzzle.

As Member States, there are practical ways we can work together to better orient the future of UN peacekeeping.

One way has been the annual pledging conference, which was first hosted by the United States in 2015, and most recently by the UK in September 2016.

To date, these conferences have been successful in garnering pledges for increased Member participation in UN Peacekeeping operations.

We owe a great deal to the Members who have co-hosted this great initiative alongside the UN.

The conferences have also significantly diversified the pool of troop and police contributing countries on UN peacekeeping missions.

I am heartened by the fact that so many troop and police contributing countries carry the UN peacekeeping mantle, and I am encouraged by how much we can learn from each other.

As I have announced, Canada will host the 2017 UN Peacekeeping Defence Ministerial on November 14th and 15th in Vancouver, British Columbia. We are proud to take a leadership role in advancing the UN’s peacekeeping agenda.

Today, I am pleased to announce further details on this important initiative. We have established ambitious objectives for the forum.

As always, the plan is to maximize our time together. We will review the progress achieved since we last met in 2016, and focus on the best way forward.

I am eager to hear your thoughts on how best we can support meaningful reform in the UN system.

From my perspective, one important aspect of this will be to broaden the discussion at the upcoming Defence Ministerial in Vancouver.

During the Conference, we should consider our work in the context of the impressive and progressive work you are doing here in New York.

We must also consider the trends we are seeing in the field of global peacekeeping. For instance, it is Canada`s belief that addressing the root causes of conflict is a necessary precondition of success.

The father of modern peacekeeping, Lester B. Pearson, once said, “The best defence of peace is not power, but the removal of the causes of war.”

But make no mistake, we must understand the reality of conflict today and address the threat of radical groups in conflict.

Also, we maintain that a range of activities - from training to humanitarian assistance, development and education – are needed to increase our chances of building a lasting peace.

During the Ministerial, we will strive to identify pragmatic and innovative solutions to global conflict. We will build on the “3Ps” — pledges, planning and performance, as highlighted at last year’s Ministerial in London. But more than that, we will put a new spotlight on partnerships.

This focus will be important, because the UN system has the greatest impact when it enables others to do great work.

To do that, we must build meaningful and sustainable partnerships with governments, regional organizations, and civil society actors, so that peacekeeping can be more effective.

In Vancouver, we will continue encouraging pledges from Member nations, particularly in areas where the UN faces gaps, such as rapid deployment.

We will explore ways to accelerate innovations in training and capacity building, and to encourage partnerships between the UN and countries that contribute troops and police officers.

We will explore a variety of ways of protecting vulnerable populations, including the use of force in protection mandates and engaging with local populations.

But I am also struck by the Secretary General’s conflict prevention agenda, and I am eager to explore the intersection between conflict prevention and peacekeeping.

Building on the great work that was done at the London Ministerial, we will, once again, emphasize the importance of integrating gender perspectives into Operations planning.

The London Defence Ministerial endorsed ways to improve the planning and performance of UN peacekeeping operations by increasing the participation of women.

We, in Canada, feel strongly about the integration of women at all levels and in all roles, in the promotion of peace and security. We know that local conflicts and crises often affect women and girls differently and more severely than they affect other demographic groups.

We believe that a diversity of perspectives in operational planning and implementation is essential to improve the circumstances for the most vulnerable populations.

Women maximize our collective efforts against gender-based violence. They play a key role in engaging youth and preventing the recruitment of child soldiers. They are actors of peace that can make agreements last in their communities.


Many of you here today are troop and police-contributing countries, host nations and regional partners. Ultimately, the goal of our dialogue today as we head to Vancouver, is to benefit from your first-hand experiences. We will learn from you and build concrete proposals and commitments.

I look forward to hosting Members in Vancouver and hearing your thoughts about how we can meaningfully contribute to the future of UN peacekeeping. Thank you.
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
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Offline YZT580

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total bafflegab.  Was it at the UK meeting that he pledged troops to Africa or was that earlier?  How about creating an environment where it is safe for women to walk and children to attend school by eradicating those who would implement slavery instead i.e. Boka Harem or ISIS or those bastards who set off the ambush in Egypt? 

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“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

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A reasonably detailed outline of the various asks Canada's reportedly considering (and, in some cases, already turned down), via CBC.ca's Murray Brewster, shared under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act (R.S.C., 1985, c. C-42) ...
Quote
The United Nations has presented Canada with a long list of peacekeeping requests that not only include fronting a dangerous mission in Mali, but separate military and police training deployments, including one in the volatile Central African Republic.

The list, obtained by CBC News under access to information legislation, paints the clearest picture yet of the expectations of the international community following Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's declaration that "Canada is back" on the world stage.

The documents also hint at some of the diplomatic arm-twisting that's been underway, both before and after the Liberals announced last summer they would commit 600 troops and 150 police officers to international peace support operations.

Much of the content also helps explain some of the dismay, particularly among European allies at the UN, over the Trudeau government's indecision on the missions.

A spokesperson for Global Affairs reiterated in an e-mail that no decision has been made and that options are being "carefully and thoughtfully" weighed.

Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan has been opaque about where troops might end up, but informally many government officials at National Defence and Global Affairs Canada have signaled that Mali, Democratic Republic of Congo and Central African Republic were among the contending missions.

The documents, dated May 11, 2017, outline what precisely the UN and the European Union want to Canada to undertake in most of those troubled nations.

The ask for Mali is the largest and most significant.

Canadian troops are being asked to "replace (the) Dutch contingent" this year and that would involve taking over the role of being the eyes and ears of the UN mission, conducting reconnaissance and gathering intelligence on local insurgents and Islamic extremists who remain a persistent and deadly threat.

The Dutch have about 290 troops in the West African country, which is down from 400 after they withdrew their helicopter contingent.

Peacekeepers and military training

There have also been separate "repeated expressions of interest" for Canada to undertake a military training mission in Mali along the European Union, the records show, and to provide helicopters to the UN's stabilization mission there.

The German foreign ministry has sent two separate letters and the UN secretary general made a direct appeal last September, according to the documents.

Canada turned down a request that came in last August around the time the Liberal government made its announcement. The response said the country was "not yet in a position to make a decision on specifics" of the Canadian military contribution.

The Germans were particularly antsy last year because they relied on Dutch helicopter support to protect their troops.

Police reform

The UN has also requested Canada contribute to police reform and training in Mali to help instruct local security forces in counter-terror operations, deal with organized crime and gather intelligence.

Mali is the deadliest UN mission on the books right now, with more than 100 peacekeepers killed since the deployment began in 2013.

The mission is a significant challenge for the UN, said analyst Evan Cinq-Mars.

"The tactics by the armed groups, including targeting the UN mission with improvised explosive devices, really hinder the ability of the mission, not only to protect civilians but to also protect itself," said Cinq-Mars, who works out the Global Centre for the Responsibility to Protect in New York.

"I think it's important for the UN and member states like Canada to really ensure that considerations for deployments are made, and that troops and police that are willing and ready and trained to perform and are fit for purpose."

On Friday, the UN debated whether to allow five African countries in the region to set up a joint counter-terrorism force to tackle extremist threats — a measure the U.S. opposes.

In addition to Mali, there was a request for Canada to undertake a military training mission — alongside France and the European Union — in the Central African Republic, where UN troops have been accused of sexual violence. It also a nation where international forces have faced increasingly attacks, including one last month that left four dead and 10 wounded.

The documents list the request as "closed," but also note that National Defence was "against" the deployment.

As well, there is separate call for "several specialized police teams" in the Central African Republic, and similar pleas for "joint patrols and community police in South Sudan." International Development Minister Marie-Claude Bibeau is expected to make a significant aid announcement for South Sudan Monday.

Marquee postings

Interestingly, Canada has been offered several marquee command positions under the UN flag, almost all of which have met with resistance at National Defence.

It is widely know that the UN asked for a lieutenant-general to lead the mission in Mali, but the documents show the ask was made twice before a Belgian general took up the post.

National Defence advised against taking that one, according to the documents.

Canada also turned down these high-profile posts:

    Brigadier-general to Kabul as a senior military adviser to the Afghan government
    Deputy commander for UN mission in Democratic Republic of Congo
    Deputy commander for UN mission Central African Republic
    Task force commander role in the Central African Republic

Canada did agree to send an officer to serve as chief of staff at the UN's military affairs branch in New York.

Cinq-Mars says peacekeeping operations in the field rely on exceptional leadership and in the absence of that there have been "breakdowns in how these missions operate" and carry out their mandates.

"I think it's a big testament that there have been a number of requests to Canada to lead particular missions," he said. "I am not particularly sure about how the UN has responded to the denials."
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

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... Meanwhile, elsewhere in Africa ... "As many as 25 Canadian soldiers, based out of Valcartier, Que., will soon take part in a revamped mission to train security forces in the troubled western African country of Niger.  Last summer, CBC News reported that regular army troops would take over an ongoing deployment, known as Operation Naberius, from Canada's elite special forces.  A handful of the highly-trained soldiers have since 2013 helped train the Niger Armed Forces in marksmanship, reconnaissance and other basic military skills ..."
An update, via French-language media - Google Translate in quote:
Quote
45eNorthern.ca learned that as part of Operation NABERIUS, approximately 24 instructors and a small coordination element in the Canadian Army Theater have recently been deployed to Niger to conduct the first of two sets of training planned for 2017 ...
IIRC, this may not count towards Canada's U.N. ask.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 10:28:27 by milnews.ca »
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Thucydides

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total bafflegab.  Was it at the UK meeting that he pledged troops to Africa or was that earlier?  How about creating an environment where it is safe for women to walk and children to attend school by eradicating those who would implement slavery instead i.e. Boka Harem or ISIS or those bastards who set off the ambush in Egypt?

While that sort of military action is necessary to establish peace, it is not "peacekeeping" as implied in the official Liberal mythology. If you can do the job without a Blue Helmet, then it doesn't fit the narrative.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline jmt18325

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While that sort of military action is necessary to establish peace, it is not "peacekeeping" as implied in the official Liberal mythology. If you can do the job without a Blue Helmet, then it doesn't fit the narrative.

That's rather baseless, considering that the Liberal ministers have gone to great lengths to explain how peacekeeping today is not the blue helmet affair of the 90s.

Offline FSTO

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That's rather baseless, considering that the Liberal ministers have gone to great lengths to explain how peacekeeping today is not the blue helmet affair of the 90s.

The 90's is when peacekeeping died.

Ask any Canadian on the street what our military does and I'll bet the farm they'll say Peacekeeping nine times out of ten. That is the mythology that the current government is half heartily changing the channel on.

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The 90's is when peacekeeping died.

Ask any Canadian on the street what our military does and I'll bet the farm they'll say Peacekeeping nine times out of ten. That is the mythology that the current government is half heartily changing the channel on.

I worked for two people from Yugoslavia.  Husband and wife. 

Wife:  "My country is gone."

Husband: "Why were you there?" 

To be clear and for the record - he was talking about Canada in general and the Army in particular.   I never served there.
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline Jarnhamar

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That's rather baseless, considering that the Liberal ministers have gone to great lengths to explain how peacekeeping today is not the blue helmet affair of the 90s.
In your own words or even someone else's could you explain for me what today's peacekeeping is?
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline jmt18325

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Today's peacekeeping is war, quite simply.  It would be a lot more like Afghanistan than Cyprus.

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One or the other. It cannot be both simultaneously.

Offline Dimsum

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Today's peacekeeping is war, quite simply.  It would be a lot more like Afghanistan than Cyprus.

Straight from the UN page on Peacekeeping:

Quote
UN Peacekeeping is guided by three basic principles:

Consent of the parties;
Impartiality;
Non-use of force except in self-defence and defence of the mandate.

http://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/operations/peacekeeping.shtml

As Loachman says, blue-helmet peacekeeping cannot be like Afghanistan, as we definitely did NOT have the consent of the Taliban and we used force for more than just self-defence.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

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JMT,
So we should stop using/ get rid of the erroneous name and stop manipulating the public?

There are no wolves on Fenris

Online Kat Stevens

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Today's peacekeeping is war, quite simply.  It would be a lot more like Afghanistan than Cyprus.

Thats "peacemaking", not peacekeeping. Two different things entirely.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline jmt18325

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What we call it really doesn't matter.  It's war.  Call it peacemaking if it makes you feel better.

Offline Loachman

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Terminology matters a lot. Imprecise terminology leads to imprecise understanding, which can lead to much more serious things.

Online Kat Stevens

    beth am dyrnu braf yn y gwddf?

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What we call it really doesn't matter.  It's war.  Call it peacemaking if it makes you feel better.

Thanks ever so much, you have no idea how much that means to me.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline jmt18325

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Terminology matters a lot. Imprecise terminology leads to imprecise understanding, which can lead to much more serious things.

They still call it peacekeeping, but you can;t have peace with terrorists groups.

Offline daftandbarmy

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They still call it peacekeeping, but you can;t have peace with terrorists groups.

Yes you can. If you elect them to high political office, like they did with Gerry Adams in NI. Or Mugabe, or Mandela etc...
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline jmt18325

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Yes you can. If you elect them to high political office, like they did with Gerry Adams in NI. Or Mugabe, or Mandela etc...

I don't think the ones that we're dealing with now are interested in that.