Author Topic: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition  (Read 12985 times)

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Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2017, 10:50:25 »
Next it'll be the Judean People's Front getting militant.  Or is that the People's Front of Judea?  I can never get those splitters straight.  ;D
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2017, 15:48:28 »
Next it'll be the Judean People's Front getting militant.  Or is that the People's Front of Judea?  I can never get those splitters straight.  ;D
Some of these group names DO have that feel, don't they?

Meanwhile, two more open source updates from New Jersey's Dep't of Homeland Security ...
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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #52 on: June 15, 2017, 15:33:28 »
NOTE:  Not found guilty of terror offences, but the US Attorney's Office statement does say "The defendant solicited people to commit acts of violence in an effort to terrorize a community ..."
Quote
On Wednesday, June 14, 2017, Robert Doggart, 65, of Signal Mountain, Tennessee, was sentenced by the Honorable Curtis L. Collier, Senior U.S. District Judge, to serve 235 months in prison for soliciting another person to violate federal civil rights laws by burning down a mosque in Islamberg, a hamlet outside Hancock, New York. Upon his release from prison, he will be supervised by the U.S. Probation Office for three years. Doggart was also found guilty of soliciting another person to commit arson.

Evidence presented at trial established that, in February 2015, the FBI learned through a confidential source that Doggart was recruiting people online to carry out an armed attack on Islamberg, a community that is home to a large Muslim population. Doggart arranged to meet with the confidential source in Nashville, where he discussed details of his plan to burn down a mosque, a school, and a cafeteria in Islamberg. He showed the confidential source maps of Islamberg, laid out the number of guns and types of ammunition they would need to destroy the community, and discussed different ways to burn down a mosque and other buildings. Through a court order, the FBI also began intercepting Doggart’s phone calls, during which he solicited and recruited people to join him in his attack on Islamberg.

Doggart specifically targeted the mosque because it was a religious building and he discussed burning it down or blowing it up with a Molotov cocktail or other explosive device. At trial, the jury heard recorded conversations in which Doggart repeatedly discussed killing people, including one in which Doggart said, “I don’t want to have to kill children, but there’s always collateral damage.”

“People of all faiths have the fundamental right to worship freely, and this administration will not tolerate attempts to violate that right,” said Attorney General Jeff Sessions. “The defendant solicited people to commit acts of violence in an effort to terrorize a community simply because of its Islamic faith. The Justice Department will continue to aggressively investigate and prosecute attacks against our faith-based communities.”

“The people of the Eastern District of Tennessee will not tolerate the type of threats and actions perpetrated by Doggart. The United States Attorney’s Office will aggressively prosecute those who seek to disrupt the safety of our community and others,” said U.S. Attorney Nancy Stallard Harr.

Special Agent in Charge Renae McDermott of the Knoxville Division of the Federal Bureau of Investigation states that, “We are committed to investigating violations of federal civil rights statues. We prioritize civil rights investigations which are designed to protect all persons.”

The case was investigated by the FBI, Knoxville Division. Trial Attorney Saeed A. Mody of the Civil Rights Division, Assistant U.S. Attorney Perry H. Piper of the Eastern District of Tennessee, and Trial Attorney Clement McGovern of the National Security Division’s Counterterrorism Section, represented the United States at trial.
A bit more on this case from local (Chattanooga, TN) media:
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Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2017, 22:12:50 »
If this wasn't a genuine accident, I'm surprised it took this long for an incident that mirrors previous attacks to occur.
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2017, 22:30:03 »
More on the latest from London here via Google News.
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #56 on: June 18, 2017, 23:12:32 »
Looks like a white dude drove a car into a crowd of worshippers exiting a mosque. The mosque in question has a history, about twelve + years back, of having been identified as a hotbed of extremism, and carries a certain notoriety as a result. It looks like the governance of the mosque changed over completely in 2005, though I cannot speak to how it is currently. That said it would have been an obvious target for someone doing a surface Google search of a way to target Muslims in London.

At first glance, and obviously subject to all the normal breaking news caveats, it appears that we have an 'eye for an eye' reprisal- a terror attack against innocent civilians in reprisal for terrorist attacks against innocent civilians. This is of course as despicable and evil as any other such attack.

Sadly, disappointingly, and unsurprisingly I'm already seeing some real sacks of crap spouting off about 'karma' and 'reap what you sow' and such. As someone whose life is dedicated to protecting the innocent, that disgusts me.
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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #57 on: June 18, 2017, 23:29:17 »
I saw the report on the news. I'm not going to bother in the least, including reading about it until the police investigation is ended and he is charged or freed. There's so much bullshit in the news today. When even CNN is flat out caught staging lies for the cameras, journalism is no longer something to pay attention to. Editorial or journalisic opinion is just that, opinion. Just like mine. Might be true, but increasingly it appears not to be. They've moved from being news reporters and journalists to storytellers and entertainers.

We don't even get it right here on Milnet. A guy hit pedestrians and because it 'appears' similar to attacks carried out by muslim terrorists, it automatically goes here in a terrorism thread. What if he had a medical problem or was texting. Nope, just like know it all journalists, we've already decided it was a planned attack. Like I've said, I'm not concerning myself until I hear it from sources I think I trust. YMMV.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 23:41:16 by recceguy »
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Offline AbdullahD

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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #58 on: June 19, 2017, 01:21:36 »
Let's face it, a lot of people are getting that sinking feeling in our hearts that this is a targeted attack.

I haven't been posting here much to be honest, because I can not seem to reliably connect to the site via my phone.. and my time frame seems to get forever extended regarding joining.

But I will be one of the most relieved people in the world if this turns out to have happened due to a medical reason or even if the guy was driving drunk and it was an accident. Because that will mean that we will not have to worry about reprisal attacks etc, because i think once that gate opens it will be hard to close. But, I have reservations.. for good reasons.

Such as a teen being murdered. But it is not counted as terrorism.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/fairfax-loudoun-police-searching-for-missing-17-year-old-reported-to-have-been-assaulted/2017/06/18/02e379ac-5466-11e7-a204-ad706461fa4f_story.html

Or the Portland event, Quebec event etc etc etc a list from the oh so reliable wikipedia.. has a suprising amount of instances of attacks against Muslims.. which sadly makes me think this was intentional.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobic_incidents

But one thing I am noticing is.. we make these idiots sound far more glorious then they deserve. Terrorist and extremist are pejorative terms to us.. but it seems the label 'terrorist' is desired to the idiots attracted to these things. So I hope the media stops using the term and refers to them as 'Mentally Handicapped Individuals' or some other demeaning term. Woops i got off on a tangent sorry.

An online friend of mine is a cop in London allegedly and I have no reason not to believe him.. but hearing about Greenfell tower, the idiotic isis inspired fools and now this.. them poor boys are having it rough lately. My friend told me the day after the fire happened you could smell burnt flesh in the air..

Sorry I will stop now, the medication I am on has me extremely loopy. But basically I can't wait for mankind to collectively grow the heck up and stop killing ourselves.. it is about dang time.

Abdullah

P.s I try to stay out of this thread and not turn it into a tit for tat thread. That is not my intention with my post.. it is just my heart breaks because of what these poor lads in england have been going through.
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Offline MCG

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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #59 on: June 19, 2017, 06:58:03 »
We are not immune in Canada, with a 5% increase in hate crimes seemingly being driven by a 12% increase in hate crime against Muslims.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40252489

Offline Remius

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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #60 on: June 19, 2017, 09:11:12 »
I saw the report on the news. I'm not going to bother in the least, including reading about it until the police investigation is ended and he is charged or freed. There's so much bullshit in the news today. When even CNN is flat out caught staging lies for the cameras, journalism is no longer something to pay attention to. Editorial or journalisic opinion is just that, opinion. Just like mine. Might be true, but increasingly it appears not to be. They've moved from being news reporters and journalists to storytellers and entertainers.

We don't even get it right here on Milnet. A guy hit pedestrians and because it 'appears' similar to attacks carried out by muslim terrorists, it automatically goes here in a terrorism thread. What if he had a medical problem or was texting. Nope, just like know it all journalists, we've already decided it was a planned attack. Like I've said, I'm not concerning myself until I hear it from sources I think I trust. YMMV.

The police declared it a terror attack eight minutes after the incident.  The country's counter terrorism unit has taken over the investigation.  In their opinion they declared it as such.  If the sources you trust didn't report that, then I would question your sources...
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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #61 on: June 19, 2017, 10:16:49 »
... A guy hit pedestrians and because it 'appears' similar to attacks carried out by muslim terrorists, it automatically goes here in a terrorism thread. What if he had a medical problem or was texting.  Nope, just like know it all journalists, we've already decided it was a planned attack ...
London's Metro Police had this to say:
Quote
... No matter what the motivation proves to be, and we are keeping an open mind, this is being treated as a terrorist attack and the Counter Terrorism Command is investigating ...
You're right that it hasn't been proven to be a terrorist attack yet, but if your theory in yellow turns out to be the case, I'm pretty certain that information'll be shared here, too.
... I'm not concerning myself until I hear it from sources I think I trust ...
I know the sources I look at (all with varying sizes of grains of salt) - what sources do you think you trust, then?  I'm always looking to expand my range of sources - who do you trust these days?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 10:26:41 by milnews.ca »
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Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2017, 10:19:26 »
As I said, I'm surprised to some degree that a reciprocal attack hasn't happened before this as no doubt there are elements from society who are equally as sick and twisted.  I suspect the only reason it's not come to this until now is I expect they aren't as willing to die in the act as their end motivations are different and leaving pigs heads or paint was enough up to now.   I agree with Brihard and Abdullah, attacking innocent people is disgusting.  I hope this doesn't encourage more of the same tit for tat crap should this be a genuine attack and not another cause.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 10:21:57 by jollyjacktar »
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline Brihard

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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #63 on: June 19, 2017, 11:20:46 »
It appears our questions earlier have been put to be. That was indeed a retaliatory terror attack against Muslims by a white Briton. The BBC article has quite a bit of detail. The PM and the Met Police commissioner have clearly identified this as terrorism and an attack on Muslims. Witnesses on scene report that after the driver was detained he said he wanted to kill Muslims, and said he 'did his bit', and told them to kill him. Police will be getting a mental health assessment on him. Somewhat confusingly, it looks like there was already first aid being provided on a man who was in medical distress on scene, and then the van hit them. That is believed to be the lone fatality, and police are investigating whether the collision was part of the cause of death.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-40322960

I suspect that like many other attacks, we will find that this individual fits into my 'radicalized loser' theory- he's probably a failure in his own right, quite likely not all there upstairs, and probably sought meaning in an otherwise meaningless life.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #64 on: June 19, 2017, 11:45:20 »
... Witnesses on scene report that after the driver was detained he said he wanted to kill Muslims, and said he 'did his bit', and told them to kill him ...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-40322960
Meanwhile, elsewhere on the interwebs, the "false flag" allegation has already been raised (more on YouTube here) ...  :facepalm:

... I suspect that like many other attacks, we will find that this individual fits into my 'radicalized loser' theory- he's probably a failure in his own right, quite likely not all there upstairs, and probably sought meaning in an otherwise meaningless life.
:nod: #TheOtherRadicalization
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #66 on: June 19, 2017, 15:42:03 »
Judge for yourself his state of mind and social bearing:

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/finsbury-park-attacker-named-as-cardiff-resident-darren-osborne/ar-BBCTBz2?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartandhp

That article gives us practically nothing to go on to make those assessments. White dude, middle aged, from Wales. It doesn't establish with any degree of confidence his state of mind, his sanity, or how he may have been radicalized. It tries to draw an inference based on their being racist nationalist groups in the same area, but of course all of the U.K. is quite small with significant population density. You'll find nationalist groups close to anywhere.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Remius

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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #67 on: June 19, 2017, 15:44:44 »
That article gives us practically nothing to go on to make those assessments. White dude, middle aged, from Wales. It doesn't establish with any degree of confidence his state of mind, his sanity, or how he may have been radicalized. It tries to draw an inference based on their being racist nationalist groups in the same area, but of course all of the U.K. is quite small with significant population density. You'll find nationalist groups close to anywhere.

Definitely not enough info to go on to make any judgement on state of mind or even social bearing.

MTF I guess as it becomes known.
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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #68 on: June 19, 2017, 16:02:52 »
Judge for yourself his state of mind and social bearing:

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/finsbury-park-attacker-named-as-cardiff-resident-darren-osborne/ar-BBCTBz2?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartandhp
There's no evidence in the piece connecting the individual with any group, but there's still an interesting narrative tidbit to stay tuned for in the coming days ...
Quote
... Several far right groups are active in south Wales, in the vicinity of Pontyclun where Osborne is believed to have hired the van used in the attack. They include the South Wales National Front. Its leader, Adam Lloyd, is based in Bridgend, but it has denied any connection to the attacker.

Lloyd, the SWNF organiser, denied any connection to the attacker.

“The man in question is not known to any of us here in South Wales National Front, and to our knowledge is not and never has been a member,” he said.

“Although we will never condone or accept this kind of violent attacks here in SWNF, anyone with a right mind can see this is not a terrorist attack but a revenge attack.” ...
Definition of "revenge""the act of doing something to hurt someone because that person did something that hurt you"
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Offline recceguy

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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #69 on: June 19, 2017, 16:21:35 »
Wow. I rest my case. :salute:
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Offline Remius

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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #70 on: June 19, 2017, 16:34:51 »
Wow. I rest my case. :salute:

You're resting your case on the opinion of a white supremist?
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Offline recceguy

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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #71 on: June 19, 2017, 16:51:31 »
No, I'm resting my case that even the MSM isn't sure of what's going on, but it's not stopping them from trying to be first with the headline. So much so, that their speculation and reporting is doing nothing but muddying the waters. And the readers of their fluff are falling all over themselves agreeing/ denying/ going off on their own wild tangents and arguments.

I don't even know how you twisted what I said into support for the person responsible for what happened or what anyone else in the press has to say. I am on no side. Not the driver's or the muslims' or the white supremacists' or any here. I have my own thoughts, but I'll keep them to myself until I decide I have enough for a solid assessment.

There is still too much unexplained and uncorroborated 'evidence' to be drawing conclusions at this point. Until the veracity of everything that took place is known, there is no reasonable or probable grounds to form an opinion of what happened beyond a white guy drove a truck into a group of muslims.
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Offline Remius

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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #72 on: June 19, 2017, 17:14:31 »
No, I'm resting my case that even the MSM isn't sure of what's going on, but it's not stopping them from trying to be first with the headline. So much so, that their speculation and reporting is doing nothing but muddying the waters. And the readers of their fluff are falling all over themselves agreeing/ denying/ going off on their own wild tangents and arguments.

I don't even know how you twisted what I said into support for the person responsible for what happened or what anyone else in the press has to say. I am on no side. Not the driver's or the muslims' or the white supremacists' or any here. I have my own thoughts, but I'll keep them to myself until I decide I have enough for a solid assessment.

There is still too much unexplained and uncorroborated 'evidence' to be drawing conclusions at this point. Until the veracity of everything that took place is known, there is no reasonable or probable grounds to form an opinion of what happened beyond a white guy drove a truck into a group of muslims.

To be honest I don't blame your skepticism.  But the media is going with what they are being told.  If the London police says "we are treating this as a terrorist attack" what do you expect the narrative to be? That part, the part that states what the police said is a fact whether you believe it or not.  Fake news is indeed fake news.  News that gets it wrong doesn't always equate to fake.  No one here is running wild with anything despite you thinking that opinions are being formed based on what the media is saying.

I also didn't twist anything you said.  You rested your case after someone posted the opinion of a white supremacist. I thought that was odd. 

You said you have trusted sources that someone else here was curious about that you were waiting on.  I'd also like to know what those trusted sources are. If anything I do like to expand the various forums and less sources I go to.  I'm legitimately asking, it's not to call you out or anything but I'd like to know what a skeptic's trusted news sources are. 
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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #73 on: June 19, 2017, 17:38:36 »
White people can be Muslim too.  Some of the most vitriolic dudes I've came across on youtube were white converts.

It's interesting to see side by side pictures of comments from twitter comparing what people say when it's a terrorist attack committed by Muslims against when one is carried out by a non-Muslim.
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Re: Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition
« Reply #74 on: June 19, 2017, 17:56:15 »
 [:D
White people can be Muslim too.  Some of the most vitriolic dudes I've came across on youtube were white converts.

It's interesting to see side by side pictures of comments from twitter comparing what people say when it's a terrorist attack committed by Muslims against when one is carried out by a non-Muslim.

White people are what anthropologists call "Caucasians".  Quite a few Muslims, particularly in the Middle East, Eurasia, Northern Africa and Southwest Asia are "Caucasians".  It is quite humourous when it comes to people using "racism" in their argument on this subject.

Back on topic.  What we have is a nut job, just like the one who shot the Republican members of Congress practicing at the ballpark.  There are thousands out there, in every nation.  I am not sure if I would label this case as one of terrorism over a case of assault.  I look at it as a case where someone wanted to retaliate to "terrorism" at the first target they saw.  More of an case of assault with a deadly weapon than a terrorist act.  We shall see what comes out in Court, when that day comes, as to what his motives really were, and whether they were planned or just spur of the moment.

I also think that there is a great difference between terrorism and terrorizing.  Our concept of "terrorists" is that they conduct "terrorism"; but "criminals" have also been known to "terrorize".  For example: the Hells Angels have not been branded as a "terrorist group", yet they have been known to "terrorize" segments of our society.
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