Author Topic: National crisis: fentanyl & other super-opiate overdoses  (Read 23416 times)

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2016, 20:40:05 »
True, but it also true the other way around. Just because someone uses drugs recreationally, doesn't mean they are an addict... which is what his point was and what many people dispute. They can see how one can drink recreationally without being addicted but can't believe for a second that someone might be able to use cocaine recreationally without being an addict.

Agreed.  It is a fine line.  I remember the term "Weekend Alcoholics" applied to certain people who would remain sober all week, but would be totally wasted every weekend; and I mean every weekend, and holidays.
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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2016, 11:01:54 »
Agreed.  It is a fine line.  I remember the term "Weekend Alcoholics" applied to certain people who would remain sober all week, but would be totally wasted every weekend; and I mean every weekend, and holidays.

They fall into the abuse/borderline addict category, and cause no end of grief in the ER...these are the asshats that try drinking their pub dry and then have the snot beat out of them on YouTube for the world to blame the police on, go drive home and kill a few people or go home an abuse their spouses or renders themselves unconscious and aspirates their vomit; the clown that snorts some coke and shows up with chest pain with/without a full blown heart attack all while bouncing off the walls; the kid that went to a rave and didn't realize they shouldn't mix and match Ecstasy and what ever they're usually taking and now have serotonin syndrome and we're trying to keep their brains from melting; the teenager that gets into her granny's fentanyl patches she has for terminal cancer, extracts and shoots a 3 day dose into herself and we're now fighting to keep them breathing and not brain damaged.  I've left out the clowns that don't get a buzz after eating their weed, so take a lot more and then are gibbled up, or the potheads that show up with cyclic vomiting syndrome, the twit that does a meth/LSD combo and is totally paranoid/psychotic and thinks that everyone trying to help them are big purple elephant finger puppets.

I have of course left out the actual addicts - the ones that manage to eat 2 months worth of Percocet in a week and now think we owe them a refill and then get abusive when we politely and then impolitely tell them to phuque off; the mountains of tobacco addicts that clog our beds with COPD exacerbations, heart attacks, strokes and blood vessel disease; the fast/greasy/carb rich food addicts without an exercise addiction, that show up with new diabetes, heart attacks, strokes and liver/gallbladder disease; the other bone idle folks that sit around all day and show up with blood clots in their legs/lungs; the alcoholic with DT's, cirrhotic liver disease or a massive GI bleed; more potheads with cyclic vomiting; the little kids that show up for CFS checkups because their parents were too stoned or drunk (or both) to look after them.  I'm also kind of expecting a run of what I call "new COPD" from folks that smoke a pile of weed a day with unfiltered joints/bongs - funny how when I ask if someone smokes, most potheads will say no until I ask about cannabis use...oh yeah, 1/4-full pack day equivalent (for more than a few I might add)...and they can't figure out why they're having breathing issues.

I guess my issue is that the Canada Health Act ensures everyone has the right to walk into the ER (or be rolled in, dragged in by police or tossed in by friends) at any time for any reason and can't be turned away...even if it's because they're self-destructive and don't look after themselves.  It's bad enough that people come into the ER with a cold that's 20 minutes old "because I can't be sick right now" (and the undertone of "it's my right" ::) ) - when you consider that to get triaged, the province gets billed about $700 IIRC...not withstanding medications, instruments, radiography, salaries of docs, nurses, PA's/NP's, techs, etc, you can quickly end up in the 5-6 figures for a visit without admission.  Ward rate is about $8-900/day.  Until things get changed such that folks that show up like this are billed in one way or another (have a higher premium on their provincial healthcare for instance), they're going to become an increased burden on tax payers.  The problem as I see it is folks want their rights to self-determination but don't feel that they should pay for that same right - so the rest of us do.  Nothing in our society is free...to quote "Team America", "Freedom isn't free, it costs folks like you and me..."

On the bright side, I know I'll have a job for a few more years...if you want to legalize things, you should probably come see what things are like in ER's with stuff that is in fact already legal, forget the stuff that isn't.

:2c:

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Offline Chispa

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2016, 11:36:16 »
Medicineman comments are indicative on what I heard from individuals working in hospitals ERs, walking clinics, or drug centers. IMO; the "legalisation" of these hardcore narcotics without medical supervision is bluntly absurd. 

Lets C Winnipeg news for 2015, Apr., Aug., 2016, concerning the Fentanyl epidemic, known as the killer High. The label, definition of “recreational use” is slightly misleading if one considers the potency of these narcotics. Street pushers use Fentanly when cutting heroin or other drugs, just like a distiller dilutes alcohol % count with a water distiller, making more money from the batch. Fentanly is also known as the poor man’s drug, easily obtained and mixed with other narcotics, etc.……Per Say, smoking a joint is not high enough; I’ll recreationally use Fentanyl and see if I can reach the moon.


Cocaine 'contaminated' with fentanyl suspected in Winnipeg overdose death..
Police are still waiting on toxicology reports, but they suspect that a death over the weekend, and another serious but non-lethal overdose, happened after two men consumed cocaine that may have been contaminated with fentanyl. 'It's the great imposter: it can be obtained much more cheaply than heroin.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/cocaine-contaminated-with-fentanyl-suspected-in-winnipeg-overdose-death-1.3193628

A Killer High: How Canada got addicted to fentanyl.
It’s as easy as ordering a book online: Sign up for an account, choose a method of payment, and receive the package in three to four business days.

But first, there are some choices to make. The fentanyl hydrochloride comes in a variety of quantities, ranging from a half-gram sample for $35 (U.S) to a kilogram for $21,000. It also comes in different strengths – purchasers are warned to “be careful” and do their research on the product, described as 99-per-cent pure. And of course, there are the related pharmaceutical products: the fentanyl patches, tablets and even lollipops.

Buyers are assured their package won’t get seized at the Canadian border. To avoid the risk of detection, says a supplier from China, he conceals the purchase alongside urine test strips. Not that there’s reason to worry: Canadian border guards cannot open packages weighing less than 30 grams without the consent of the recipient. (A Globe and Mail reporter corresponded with sellers and suppliers using a pseudonym and did not disclose himself as a journalist, in order to obtain accurate information from the seller.)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/investigations/a-killer-high-how-canada-got-addicted-tofentanyl/article29570025/


http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/world/heroin-epidemic-buries-midwest-329629821.html


C.U.

Sorry for all the edits my eyes are watering, etc.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 12:06:24 by Chispa »
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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2016, 11:39:03 »
On the bright side, I know I'll have a job for a few more years...if you want to legalize things, you should probably come see what things are like in ER's with stuff that is in fact already legal, forget the stuff that isn't.

:2c:

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #54 on: November 19, 2016, 13:14:02 »
18 Nov. 2016

Winnipeg Firefighter / Paramedic had to receive emergency treatment after he was possibly exposed to fentanyl on a call.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/firefighter-paramedic-treated-with-opioid-antidote-after-exposure-to-suspected-fentanyl-1.3856239
"... a possible fentanyl overdose in a home when he started having trouble with his throat."
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2016, 13:19:39 »
Quote from: Chispa

But first, there are some choices to make. The fentanyl hydrochloride comes in a variety of quantities, ranging from a half-gram sample for $35 (U.S) to a kilogram for $21,000.

Paying for shipping on only $35 seems almost criminal.  Best to lean towards the 20G's I say.

Quote
  purchasers are warned to “be careful”

Say what you want,  these people care about their consumers.


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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2016, 13:21:37 »
18 Nov. 2016

Winnipeg Firefighter / Paramedic had to receive emergency treatment after he was possibly exposed to fentanyl on a call.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/firefighter-paramedic-treated-with-opioid-antidote-after-exposure-to-suspected-fentanyl-1.3856239
"... a possible fentanyl overdose in a home when he started having trouble with his throat."

Recreational drug use hurts more than the user?  Who would have thought.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 14:57:20 by Jarnhamar »
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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #57 on: November 19, 2016, 15:27:47 »
They fall into the abuse/borderline addict category, and cause no end of grief in the ER...these are the asshats that try drinking their pub dry and then have the snot beat out of them on YouTube for the world to blame the police on, go drive home and kill a few people or go home an abuse their spouses or renders themselves unconscious and aspirates their vomit; the clown that snorts some coke and shows up with chest pain with/without a full blown heart attack all while bouncing off the walls; the kid that went to a rave and didn't realize they shouldn't mix and match Ecstasy and what ever they're usually taking and now have serotonin syndrome and we're trying to keep their brains from melting; the teenager that gets into her granny's fentanyl patches she has for terminal cancer, extracts and shoots a 3 day dose into herself and we're now fighting to keep them breathing and not brain damaged.  I've left out the clowns that don't get a buzz after eating their weed, so take a lot more and then are gibbled up, or the potheads that show up with cyclic vomiting syndrome, the twit that does a meth/LSD combo and is totally paranoid/psychotic and thinks that everyone trying to help them are big purple elephant finger puppets.

I have of course left out the actual addicts - the ones that manage to eat 2 months worth of Percocet in a week and now think we owe them a refill and then get abusive when we politely and then impolitely tell them to phuque off; the mountains of tobacco addicts that clog our beds with COPD exacerbations, heart attacks, strokes and blood vessel disease; the fast/greasy/carb rich food addicts without an exercise addiction, that show up with new diabetes, heart attacks, strokes and liver/gallbladder disease; the other bone idle folks that sit around all day and show up with blood clots in their legs/lungs; the alcoholic with DT's, cirrhotic liver disease or a massive GI bleed; more potheads with cyclic vomiting; the little kids that show up for CFS checkups because their parents were too stoned or drunk (or both) to look after them.  I'm also kind of expecting a run of what I call "new COPD" from folks that smoke a pile of weed a day with unfiltered joints/bongs - funny how when I ask if someone smokes, most potheads will say no until I ask about cannabis use...oh yeah, 1/4-full pack day equivalent (for more than a few I might add)...and they can't figure out why they're having breathing issues.

Those are all great anecdotes if we were discussing whether or not drugs are good for your health. I don't see anybody debating that they are.

Medicineman comments are indicative on what I heard from individuals working in hospitals ERs, walking clinics, or drug centers. IMO; the "legalisation" of these hardcore narcotics without medical supervision is bluntly absurd. 

Sorry, I fail to see where in his posts he points to how making these drugs illegal has lessened the workload he has in the ER.... if anything the anecdotes from our medical professionals support that prohibition doesn't work...

On the bright side, I know I'll have a job for a few more years...if you want to legalize things, you should probably come see what things are like in ER's with stuff that is in fact already legal, forget the stuff that isn't.

You, like many others, are making the assumption that legalizing narcotics would cause more people to start doing drugs and therefore create more situations like you mentioned in the ER. So far, no one has supported this assumption, and a bit of logical discussion on the matter quickly makes one realize that in fact, prohibiting them has caused us to be where we are today... an OD epidemic.

Tugging on heartstrings is not evidence of anything except that drugs are bad for you, which I never debated. If I come visit the ER and see someone OD'ing on crack or crystal meth, my response is going to be "Looks like we should have legalized cocaine." So you can tone down on the self-righteousness.

It's no different than the Canadian Medical Association coming out in favour of the long-gun registry. Whoop-di-diddly-do, no crap firearms cause injuries that medical staff have to treat, I don't need a doctor to tell me that. That is not convincing evidence (or evidence at all) that the long-gun registry was actually reducing firearm-related injuries. It's just a bunch of self-righteous pricks that haven't put any critical thought into it and are just purporting "guns are bad."
« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 16:09:57 by ballz »
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #58 on: November 19, 2016, 15:43:06 »
I thought reading into the whole Portugal drug thing they found evidence that there was an increase in drug use.  When I get to a laptop I'll do some fact checking.
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Offline Inspir

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #60 on: November 19, 2016, 16:18:29 »
I think if Canada ever did decide to go the way Portugal did it would have a awkward effect on our relations south of the border. The DEA has more less declared Portugal as pure evil.

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #61 on: November 19, 2016, 17:56:24 »
Recreational drug use hurts more than the user?  Who would have thought.

Yup... A number of police have been exposed and had dangerous reactions too. More and more of us are now carrying Naloxone on shift- not for the addict ODing on the street, but for self/buddy aid. Not that I wouldn't use it on someone else if necessary, but fentanyl has become a serious personal protection issue.
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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #62 on: November 19, 2016, 18:03:28 »
Yup... A number of police have been exposed and had dangerous reactions too. More and more of us are now carrying Naloxone on shift- not for the addict ODing on the street, but for self/buddy aid. Not that I wouldn't use it on someone else if necessary, but fentanyl has become a serious personal protection issue.

Not that cabbies are in the exact same boat as police or other first responders, but I have friends who addicts tried or threatened to stab with needles (over money too ffs). Most people who are not high or drunk are fine individuals, but when they are fiending, high or drunk.. it makes the situation much more unstable.

I am happy you guys are carrying or are able to carry those kits. I honestly wish we could too (as far as I know we can not) a lot of people use cabs to go to ER, due to some ideas they have regarding 911 and who knows it 'may' save a life one day.. or not.

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #63 on: November 19, 2016, 19:14:48 »
a lot of people use cabs to go to ER,


« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 19:17:44 by mariomike »
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Offline Chispa

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #64 on: November 19, 2016, 22:24:14 »
In BC, instead of prescribing methadone too addicts, heroin is given free of charge; investigation reveals they do not like the high of methadone and sell it for heroin.


My relationship with my daughter is better than it's ever been," says James, 48. But James says it wasn't so long ago, her days were spent doing absolutely anything to score heroin. She used to steal hundreds of dollars' worth of meat from grocery stores and sell it on the streets. She even stole from Tia. "I took $500 out of her account and because of the lovely girl that she is, she never wanted to make me feel bad," James says. "If someone had told me I would do something so despicable — I never would have believed it."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/crosstown-clinic-heroin-addiction-1.3779768


Doctors in B.C. can now prescribe Heroin: 

Prescription heroin is used in some European countries, including Switzerland, Germany, Denmark, and the Netherlands, but it's been a long time coming to North America. The first Canadian study that tested the effectiveness of giving addicts heroin under the supervision of doctors was the North American Opiate Medication Initiative (NAOMI), which started in 2005. It eventually recruited 251 addicts in Vancouver and Montreal who had unsuccessfully attempted to kick smack numerous times. A control group was given methadone, which is commonly prescribed to heroin addicts so they can wean themselves off hard drugs.

The results, published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2009, showed that injectable heroin —known in medical-speak as diacetylmorphine—was a far more effective and efficient treatment than methadone in getting users out of the vicious and costly cycle of crime, infection, overdoses, and hospital visits that are a way of life for those in the grips of long-term, hardcore addiction. Compared to those trying to kick heroin using methadone, participants used street drugs less often, committed fewer crimes, and were employed more often, more connected to their families, and straight-up happier. A "cost of illness" analysis from 2000 found that severely addicted individuals can cost society over $43,000 per year, so getting addicts off the streets and into roles as members of productive society is good for all of Canada.
https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=226483

Canada now allows prescription heroin in severe opioid addiction.
Health Canada has amended regulations allowing doctors to prescribe heroin to people who are severely addicted to opioids. The government says the country is facing an opioid overdose crisis and healthcare providers need help in treating patients suffering from chronic dependency. The change to the former Conservative government's legislation means pharmaceutical-grade heroin can be prescribed under a special-access program in cases where traditional treatment has failed. However, Health Canada says that while there is scientific evidence to support emergency access to the drug, the treatment is not an option for most people.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/canada-now-allows-prescription-heroin-in-severe-opioid-addiction-1.3753312


I found this online, someone looking for Heroin in Montreal and what the prices are; too funny.

On Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:44:47 PM UTC-4, drug abuser wrote:
> K so I went and found a homeless guy, gave him 30$ and he calls a #. I
> met two guys who drive in a car around downtown all day. They tell me
> 260$ a gram????? wtf Im sure Im being ripped off.

heroin in montreal is sold only by the italians who sell shitty dope at high prices, its usually 60$ for a quarter which is usually .15-.2 grams, we have good coke and the best weed, vancouver halifax toronto are all different because there is no monopoly on anyhting. vancouver is cheap for heroin and toronto is cheaper for blow and montreal has the best weed and blow.
Show trimmed content

je veut en acheté pour 50$ ou 60$ suis a montreal coin atwater a tu un no de cell que je peut en contacté urgent de en avoir

tann...@gmail.com
its 200$ for a full gram and normally an 8/10, but ya might get a finders fee which is around 20-30$ or he might take a 0.1 from your baggy...most of all stay away from music jumper if you find a thread with his name in it,,he rips people off for a living,,,a real fkn junkie......if anyone gets a hook up, i need a new one. my regular guy is in free room n board now lol so im dying to find a new good seller.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.drugs.hard/gqAO4wwcEVo


The Street Cost of Heroin In Ohio

How much does heroin cost on the street? The price of heroin depends upon a number of different factors – including the type of heroin, how available the drug is to the public at a given time and how the heroin is “cut” and processed.
The average cost of a single dose (0.1 g) of heroin purchased on the street has been reported as approximately $15–$20 in the U.S. state of Ohio.[1]
The heroin price per gram depends upon its purity and the availability of the drug in the area at that given time.

Someone with a “hard-core” heroin habit may pay $150–$200 per day in order to support his or her habit.

The reason for such a high daily spending habit has its roots in the nature of heroin addiction. As individuals become more dependent on the drug, they build tolerance to it – meaning that it takes more and more heroin to get high. This leads to an expensive habit – and the constant threat of overdose. http://heroin.net/about/how-much-does-heroin-cost/#streetcost


C.U.




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Offline Chispa

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #65 on: November 19, 2016, 23:19:28 »


Sorry, I fail to see where in his posts he points to how making these drugs illegal has lessened the workload he has in the ER.... if anything the anecdotes from our medical professionals support that prohibition doesn't work...

You, like many others, are making the assumption that legalizing narcotics would cause more people to start doing drugs and therefore create more situations like you mentioned in the ER. So far, no one has supported this assumption, and a bit of logical discussion on the matter quickly makes one realize that in fact, prohibiting them has caused us to be where we are today... an OD epidemic.



Hi, no need for sorry; and you think by making them kosher will lesson the burden on ER’s, especially when in Montreal waiting times from 5 - 12+ hrs taking a year too see a surgeon or get an MRI, etc.? Hospitals are under staff in Quebec, ER & hospital personal are working under great pressure, not adding junkies sucking up on medical services, etc.

You believe with years or decades in many cases of drug abuse, it cannot have repercussions when you get older. My neighbour 47 years of age, drinking for years got stomach pains went to ER after test told he had advance stage, pancreatic cancer with only two weeks too live; died 13 days later. True anecdotes, studies from Pros., supporting that prohibition is questionable while the other side of the coin claims, au contraire.

Arguments for and against drug prohibition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arguments_for_and_against_drug_prohibition

C.U.
 
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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #66 on: November 20, 2016, 06:58:24 »
What a load of crap that those who wish to profit from legal drugs spew......so ingesting heroin and then jumping off a building isn't drug-related?   Here, for alcohol- related traffic accidents MADD counts it even if your lips just taste a drink less then 8 hours before.

http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/drug-decriminalisation-portugal-setting-record-straight
Deaths

Some have argued that, since 2001, drug-related deaths in Portugal either remained constant or actually increased.26 However, these claims are based on the number of people who died with traces of any illicit drug in their body, rather than the number of people who died as a result of the use of an illicit drug.27
Given an individual can die with traces of drugs in their body without this being the cause of their death, it is the second number – derived from clinical assessments made by physicians, rather than post-mortem toxicological tests – that is the standard, internationally accepted measure of drug-related deaths. And according to this measure, deaths due to drug use have decreased significantly – from approximately 80 in 2001, to 16 in 2012.28

One can quote all the feel good drug stories about a country they want but here's the bottom line....  http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-portugal-could-be-europes-next-economic-disaster-2016-08-24  ........if you call a country where drugs are more important then the fact your economy is crashing then enjoy the move.  I prefer our children to stay sober and stay in shape for the future.
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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #67 on: November 20, 2016, 08:35:00 »
It's all very tragic. 

OD's are part of the job. You get used to it.

But, remember while we are saving that skell, we could be somewhere else,

People are growing tired of using tax money to have First Responders save those who OD again & again.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/405ff26551734644858540b43a21019a/just-say-no-narcan-heroin-rescue-efforts-draw-backlash

"We give Narcan & the first thing out of the mouth of the person is, ‘Get the Hell away from me.’ ”

 "You ruined my high " or "That cost me $$"



« Last Edit: November 20, 2016, 08:41:10 by mariomike »
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Offline Inspir

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #68 on: November 20, 2016, 09:29:16 »
Ain't that the truth. I've had OD patients mad to the point that we've had a full out brawl in the back on an ambulance because I've taken their high away. Now instead of giving the Naloxone in one big push we are just titrating to effect to get them out of that respiratory depression/arrest and at the same time still keeping them a little under the influence. Having said that I've also seen medics who also give the shot all at once to ruin their high. I've even heard rumblings of just doing airway management enroute and forgoing Naloxone all together but have yet to see it.

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #69 on: November 20, 2016, 09:52:53 »
So you can tone down on the self-righteousness.

"Self-righteousness.
Adjective.  A feeling or display of moral superiority derived from a sense that one's beliefs, actions, or affiliations are of greater virtue than those of the average person. Self-righteous individuals are often intolerant of the opinions and behaviors of others."

Hmm, how 'bout that.

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #70 on: November 20, 2016, 12:30:19 »
Hmm, how 'bout that.

Yes, the person actually bringing another way to combat this drug epidemic for discussion is self-righteous, nevermind those who can't do anything better than try to shout people down with "drugs are bad."

Do you have anything of interest to add to the discussion or are you just doing your usual post a sarcastic remark that the majority will appreciate and then ducking out? ::)

and you think by making them kosher will lesson the burden on ER’s

Yes.

especially when in Montreal waiting times from 5 - 12+ hrs taking a year too see a surgeon or get an MRI, etc.? Hospitals are under staff in Quebec, ER & hospital personal are working under great pressure,

What does the current wait times have to do with it unless you are making the assumption that legalizing drugs will increase drug use despite the evidence?

not adding junkies sucking up on medical services, etc.

Oh, I see, you *are* still making that assumption.

True anecdotes, studies from Pros., supporting that prohibition is questionable while the other side of the coin claims, au contraire.

Arguments for and against drug prohibition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arguments_for_and_against_drug_prohibition

Thank you. Finally, something. I find the arguments stronger on the anti-prohibition side, but at least the wikipedia article doesn't just say "drugs are bad."

What a load of crap that those who wish to profit from legal drugs spew......so ingesting heroin and then jumping off a building isn't drug-related?   Here, for alcohol- related traffic accidents MADD counts it even if your lips just taste a drink less then 8 hours before.

Wow... You really have to try hard to miss that point by that much. Marijuana stays in your system for 1+ week(s). So if someone smokes weed and 2 weeks later is in a car accident, and tests positive for having weed in their system, you are arguing that it should be considered a drug-related death? Do you want accurate statistics so we can find solutions or do you just want solutions that support your current train of thought?

 :facepalm: MADD has a very deliberate agenda/mandate to create awareness of the dangers of drinking and driving and to lobby to reduce drinking and driving... you don't think it serves their own agenda to try and count things that are not alcohol-related accidents as alcohol-related accidents? Really? You think its reasonable to have a sip of beer, 8 hours later get in a car accident, and call that a drinking and driving accident?

One can quote all the feel good drug stories about a country they want but here's the bottom line....  http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-portugal-could-be-europes-next-economic-disaster-2016-08-24  ........if you call a country where drugs are more important then the fact your economy is crashing then enjoy the move.  I prefer our children to stay sober and stay in shape for the future.

Wow, and I know you are going to explain to us all how their successful narcotics policies (creating less addicts, less drug-related deaths, less HIV, etc) has caused their economic woes? Because I mean, you wouldn't post something completely random that is not good about their country and try to blame it on their narcotics policies without some sort of.... support?

I prefer our children to stay sober and stay in shape for the future.

That's nice tugging on the heart strings again. If you really want that, maybe you should unclasp your hands from around your ears put some critical analysis into it. See below, which was already posted but I'm sure you deliberately didn't read it as it might force you to have to put some thought into what you currently believe.

http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/drug-decriminalisation-portugal-setting-record-straight
Quote
Drug use has declined among those aged 15-24, the population most at risk of initiating drug use
« Last Edit: November 20, 2016, 12:33:14 by ballz »
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Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #71 on: November 20, 2016, 12:44:05 »
From a website who's only goal is to decriminalize drugs........Oh I read it....did you click on the "campaigns" button by chance?   Nope, just another "wiki know it all" who, unlike a few posters in this thread, live/work the destruction that is drug use.


EDIT: ..and what I know from directly working with jailed addicts is they very, very seldom ever become economically productive again.....kinda like Portugal.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2016, 12:56:36 by Bruce Monkhouse »
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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #72 on: November 20, 2016, 13:12:27 »
From a website who's only goal is to decriminalize drugs........Oh I read it....did you click on the "campaigns" button by chance?

Uh huh... and Time Magazine and The British Journal of Criminology are all just a bunch of druggies that want to profit off of dealing drugs too, right?

http://healthland.time.com/2010/11/23/portugals-drug-experience-new-study-confirms-decriminalization-was-a-success/
http://bjc.oxfordjournals.org/content/50/6/999.full

Can you get those earmuffs any tighter?

Nope, just another "wiki know it all" who, unlike a few posters in this thread, live/work the destruction that is drug use.

First of all, you don't know what my experience with drug addicts is, I assure you its not "nil." Second of all, paramedics and prison guards being able to see the *results* of drug use, does not make you any kind of authority on how to *prevent* it (see my comment on the Canadian Medical Association and the long-gun registry). Nay, it appears to make you incapable of analyzing it because you are so emotionally invested in supporting the current failing methodology.

EDIT: ..and what I know from directly working with jailed addicts is they very, very seldom ever become economically productive again.....kinda like Portugal.

Now you are contradicting yourself. Indeed, jailing an addict tends to make the situation worse, that's why Portugal is not *jailing* addicts and why I am supporting not jailing them. We're the ones jailing addicts, with the support of yourself.

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #73 on: November 20, 2016, 13:23:36 »

Now you are contradicting yourself. Indeed, jailing an addict tends to make the situation worse, that's why Portugal is not *jailing* addicts and why I am supporting not jailing them. We're the ones jailing addicts, with the support of yourself.

Now you really show your ignorance........[in Ontario] we have help for those who truly WANT it.  I know, its where I work and what I do.  Just one catch,.....the inmate must apply and must be willing to accept change.  Two things most say they want but truly only want a magic pill and not sacrifice.
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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #74 on: November 20, 2016, 13:26:51 »
Second of all, paramedics and prison guards being able to see the *results* of drug use, does not make you any kind of authority on how to *prevent* it

36+ years of picking up skells. Why are they skells? Sociological problems, education, dna....who knows? Who cares? Wasn't my job to figure it out.
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