Author Topic: CF moving to Multicam?  (Read 12465 times)

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Offline bllusc

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CF moving to Multicam?
« on: March 09, 2017, 21:24:15 »
According to the latest published minutes of the National Defence Clothing and Dress Committee (meeting held 2 Dec 2016) and published this February, the CFCWO briefed the committee on a desire from the CDS to potentially move toward a single CADPAT (MultiCam) vice the current temperate and arid patterns.


Offline CombatMacgyver

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2017, 07:45:09 »
I dunno, the only guys I see wearing multicam are SOFCOM guys.

Frankly it doesn't work as well as the differing variations of CADPAT.  You go from three or four (temperate, arid, arctic, urban <- yes it exists) patterns that function extremely well in specific environments to one pattern that functions sort-of-okay-but-not-great in all environments.

As always, money is likely the motivator.  Cheaper to produce one pattern than four (not that they actually produce and issue the last two I listed).

In the end, can I just get a shirt that fits and isn't made of cardboard?  Really?... That'd make me happy.

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2017, 09:32:49 »
The current CDS would be long gone before any change like that would happen. I can picture the gongshow of switching to Multicam uniforms similar to the Pips/Crowns and Grey Rank changes multiplied by 100.

You're also likely to get stuck with cardboard uniforms forever, as Peerless Garments has cornered the market on lowest-bidder crap that they can churn out to us as they are the only company winning every manufacturing contract we have for textiles unless its something patented that they cannot buy the patents for.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2017, 09:35:17 »

Offline slayer/raptor

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2017, 11:17:14 »
According to the latest published minutes of the National Defence Clothing and Dress Committee (meeting held 2 Dec 2016) and published this February, the CFCWO briefed the committee on a desire from the CDS to potentially move toward a single CADPAT (MultiCam) vice the current temperate and arid patterns.

I saw the briefing note produced by DLR with intent for the CCA stating pros and cons. In the end it stated that it would cost a significant amount of money to make the switch. But even more problematic is that only one company in Canada owns the rights to MultiCam. Multicam as a whole being a propriety of Crye Precision.

The conclusion of the BN stated that a further analysis would have to be done to move forward.


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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2017, 13:32:05 »
Thats why the US went to Scorpion-W2 as their new camo pattern, because DARPA owns those rights.

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2017, 14:46:03 »
Thats why the US went to Scorpion-W2 as their new camo pattern, because DARPA owns those rights.

The UK did something similar with MTP, which is another similar-to-but-not-the-same-as-Multicam pattern.

I highly encourage feasibility studies -- if we actually think about these things before we do it there might be less chance of it being enormously screwed up during the initial implementation.

Offline Lerch

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2017, 10:43:39 »
I dunno guys, with the way that the last roll-out of new combats turned out, I only forsee guys walking around with CADPAT shirts and MC trousers...and RSM's developing a nervous tic before every parade.
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Offline Pusser

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2017, 12:36:14 »
I dunno guys, with the way that the last roll-out of new combats turned out, I only forsee guys walking around with CADPAT shirts and MC trousers...and RSM's developing a nervous tic before every parade.

That would never happen if we didn't keep trying to parade in clothing that was never supposed to be used for parades!  There is NO good reason for any unit to "parade" in operational clothing.  Just as there is no good reason for anyone to wear operational clothing in climate-controlled offices in Canada.  Perhaps if we only used operational clothing for the purposes for which it was designed (field/sea operations) than we wouldn't have the shortages we do with desk officers wearing out our most expensive clothing while sitting at a computer in Ottawa.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2017, 12:37:58 »
That would never happen if we didn't keep trying to parade in clothing that was never supposed to be used for parades!  There is NO good reason for any unit to "parade" in operational clothing.  Just as there is no good reason for anyone to wear operational clothing in climate-controlled offices in Canada.  Perhaps if we only used operational clothing for the purposes for which it was designed (field/sea operations) than we wouldn't have the shortages we do with desk officers wearing out our most expensive clothing while sitting at a computer in Ottawa.

But then you'd have to use an iron and boot polish all the time ;)
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Offline FSTO

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2017, 13:11:04 »
That would never happen if we didn't keep trying to parade in clothing that was never supposed to be used for parades!  There is NO good reason for any unit to "parade" in operational clothing.  Just as there is no good reason for anyone to wear operational clothing in climate-controlled offices in Canada.  Perhaps if we only used operational clothing for the purposes for which it was designed (field/sea operations) than we wouldn't have the shortages we do with desk officers wearing out our most expensive clothing while sitting at a computer in Ottawa.

It seems to be a losing battle Pusser. Did you see the pictures of the CDS at MARPAC and the honour guard in NCD's and CADPAT?


Why do we have orders and directives when this crap goes on?

I also saw pictures from yesterday of the same outfit in Calgary.

Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2017, 13:24:34 »
If its any consolation, Pusser, I wear salt and peppers while I sail my desk.  Even though I don't get the points to support that as it's not my dress of the day.
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2017, 13:28:04 »
Really? Really? to quote Trump: Sad!!!

Who in god's green earth came up with the idea of a guard in NCD wearing white web belt and bayonet holders ? ? ? ? ?






Give me a break.   :facepalm:   :surrender:

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2017, 13:30:44 »
It seems to be a losing battle Pusser. Did you see the pictures of the CDS at MARPAC and the honour guard in NCD's and CADPAT?


Quick!! Someone wake up the Lt(N) on the right!!   8)

Who is the ginger/civi dude to the left of the CDS in the picture?   
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Offline FSTO

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2017, 13:35:05 »
Really? Really? to quote Trump: Sad!!!

Who in god's green earth came up with the idea of a guard in NCD wearing white web belt and bayonet holders ? ? ? ?

Give me a break.   :facepalm:   :surrender:

To be fair, from my spies out west who told me that MARPAC pushed back but the directive came down from CDS to make it so.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2017, 13:40:59 »
Who is the ginger/civi dude to the left of the CDS in the picture?

At least he has the decency to look perturbed about what's going on...
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2017, 13:48:26 »
At least he has the decency to look perturbed about what's going on...

Maybe he spotted Sleepy   :D
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Offline Colin P

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2017, 14:54:01 »
Here is a all in one camouflage 

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2017, 18:17:39 »
Don't even joke about that, are we will all be raiding the cadet QMs to get it back...
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2017, 21:06:21 »
Really? Really? to quote Trump: Sad!!!

Who in god's green earth came up with the idea of a guard in NCD wearing white web belt and bayonet holders ? ? ? ? ?

Well, the CDS did the same in Comox a little while ago, as did the Comd RCAF in the fall. 

The folks across the pond do homecoming parades in combats as well:

Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline FSTO

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2017, 21:19:26 »
Well, the CDS did the same in Comox a little while ago, as did the Comd RCAF in the fall. 

The folks across the pond do homecoming parades in combats as well:


So its an army and RCAF thing. I think it's wrong and I hate seeing the Navy being sucked down into this slovenly attitude, but if people are making it up as they go along, I guess our next parade we'll do white gaiters for the sailors and black leather gaiters and brown gloves for the officers.

To quote my parents, "Would you jump off a bridge because everyone else is doing it?"

Offline dapaterson

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2017, 21:37:52 »
So its an army and RCAF thing. I think it's wrong and I hate seeing the Navy being sucked down into this slovenly attitude, but if people are making it up as they go along, I guess our next parade we'll do white gaiters for the sailors and black leather gaiters and brown gloves for the officers.

Yep.  I figured the RCN would be the first to do nude formal parades.  Although I thought the officers might try to colour co-ordinate their gaiters and gloves, if that's all that they'll be wearing...

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Offline Loachman

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2017, 22:00:36 »
Generally, in Commonwealth and other Armed Forces, today's service dress uniform was yesterday's combat uniform. The predecessor units of the one on parade in the preceding photograph once fought in the same scarlets as the band is wearing, which was subsequently replaced with khaki drab service dress for field use. Tomorrow's field uniform will likely be form-fitting spandex with a powered armored exoskeleton and modular built-in radios, sensors, and weapons, and automatic chameleon camouflage, whereupon today's CADPAT will become the dress uniform.

And the IDF does not even issue a dress uniform to the vast majority of it's personnel.

Offline FSTO

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2017, 22:13:22 »
Generally, in Commonwealth and other Armed Forces, today's service dress uniform was yesterday's combat uniform. The predecessor units of the one on parade in the preceding photograph once fought in the same scarlets as the band is wearing, which was subsequently replaced with khaki drab service dress for field use. Tomorrow's field uniform will likely be form-fitting spandex with a powered armored exoskeleton and modular built-in radios, sensors, and weapons, and automatic chameleon camouflage, whereupon today's CADPAT will become the dress uniform.

And the IDF does not even issue a dress uniform to the vast majority of it's personnel.

I'm glad I'll be retired before that happens.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2017, 22:24:26 »
So its an army and RCAF thing. I think it's wrong and I hate seeing the Navy being sucked down into this slovenly attitude, but if people are making it up as they go along, I guess our next parade we'll do white gaiters for the sailors and black leather gaiters and brown gloves for the officers.

To quote my parents, "Would you jump off a bridge because everyone else is doing it?"

There was a saying when I was in the army...

"No inspection-ready unit will likely pass combat, and no combat-ready unit will likely pass an inspection".

I've done CofC parades in combat w/FFO.

Come to think of it, what I consider the most important type of parades, they all seem to be in CADPAT...

« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 22:33:17 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline FSTO

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2017, 22:33:56 »
There was a saying when I was in the army...

"No inspection-ready unit will likely pass combat, and no combat-ready unit will likely pass an inspection".

I've done CofC parades in combat w/FFO.

Just because these "traditions" are part of the Army does not mean they have to leak over into the RCN. I have no snappy sayings to counteract your Army mantra, I just feel in my bones that the creeping leisure suit Larry look has no place in the Navy when we're ashore.

 :salute:


Offline MilEME09

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2017, 00:15:45 »
That would never happen if we didn't keep trying to parade in clothing that was never supposed to be used for parades!  There is NO good reason for any unit to "parade" in operational clothing.  Just as there is no good reason for anyone to wear operational clothing in climate-controlled offices in Canada.  Perhaps if we only used operational clothing for the purposes for which it was designed (field/sea operations) than we wouldn't have the shortages we do with desk officers wearing out our most expensive clothing while sitting at a computer in Ottawa.
So a return of Garrison dress?

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Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2017, 01:33:11 »
So a return of Garrison dress?

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Now that I'll never ever have to wear it again, I say go for it!
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2017, 02:02:57 »
Just because these "traditions" are part of the Army does not mean they have to leak over into the RCN. I have no snappy sayings to counteract your Army mantra, I just feel in my bones that the creeping leisure suit Larry look has no place in the Navy when we're ashore.

 :salute:

I must admit that I think it's stupid (and somewhat disrespectful) to parade the colours in combat/Cadpat gear. Unless you're in a theatre of operations I guess.

I assume that it's a bad habit we've acquired from Uncle Sam. Good thing we don't have helmet liners anymore or I assume we'd be polishing those too, instead of our boots and the rocks :)

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Offline Happy Guy

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2017, 06:30:58 »
When I joined the CF, over 34 years ago, all parades were done in CF greens and forage caps.  We never wore combats while on a formal parade.  The default these days to wear operational dress for almost all occasions really bothers me. We now have an entire generation of soldiers (I don't know about the Navy or AF) who probably don't even know how to wear the DEUs properly.  I was at CFSU(O) Clothing Stores several years ago and an Army Cpl didn't know which direction the CD should be while wearing undressed ribbons. The group that she was with didn't know either.  I had to show her and her friends.

At the risk of sounding like a dinosaur, I was an NCO not so long ago, I am deeply disappointed at the slovenly dress standards today.  Members wearing wrinkled CADPAT uniforms with scrunched name tags and flags.  People wear poorly ironed shirts and boots/shoes with no effort to even brush shine them.  No one seems to respect the uniform that they are wearing these days. SrNCOs not doing their jobs to enforce dress discipline and young Officers flaunting the dress regulations gets me upset.  Although I shall be retiring soon, I still make a conscientious effort to ensure that my uniforms are clean, tidy and presentable in the streets.  Yes, I try to look presentable while I wear civilian clothes too but this is more to please my wife than the general public.

Sigh, ... I'm a cranky old soon to be pensioned dinosaur.

Cheers



Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2017, 07:43:06 »
SrNCOs not doing their jobs to enforce dress discipline...

Why do people always point to the Sgts and never the Warrant Officers?

I see 2 different but related problems with the standard of dress seen these days:

1.  Self-discipline; the levels are down (doing the right thing, the right way, at the right time, when no one is watching).  And not just the jnr ranks, either.  I see as many shitpump uniforms on Junior Officers as I do Jnr ranks (Avr - MCpl).

2.  Enforcement of standards;  this is not just a Snr NCO problem (Warrant Officers are not Snr NCOs, the same as OCdt's are not Jnr Officers.  Yes, there's a big deal and yes, people still want to kick others who let things like this go because ""its not important").  Cpl's are Jnr NCOs, the same as MCpl's are.  If I see an Avr out of dress, who am I going to correct?  I am going to find the MCpl on his/her crew and talk to them.  They should then speak to the Cpl on his/her crew, who should pull the Avr aside.  If its bad enough, sure I will correct on the spot but I am still going to find that MCpl.  If I don't MAKE the Cpl do his job and MAKE the MCpl do their job, and let them know, yes I AM watching, what is the motivation for them to do it, all the time?  It used to be a different thing, but I refer you to Point #1 above.

This goes for Officers as well.  If you see people in your unit lines that look like they ironed their 3B, as an example, with a cold potato...well, you have a unit Warrant Officer of some kind to handle that if they are NCMs.  If they are Officers and subordinates, deal with it yourself, go to the unit Adjt or whoever is the *hammer* in the Jnr Officer world.  If they are senior to you, well deal with it the best way you can.  Maybe talk to the MWO, who will talk to the DCO or something and then the message gets sent out to everyone.  Personally, I have no issues at all telling a Jnr Officer they are doing something contrary to CF/RCAF/Wing/Sqn Dress Instructions.  There is a professional way to do it, of course, but it has and likely will happen again and is usually worded as a suggestion. 

If dress and deportment standards are that atrocious at a unit anyone is in, and you are a minimum rank of Jnr NCO (Cpl), then that is a leadership issue that you need to be part of the solution to.  If the MCpls and Lt's are all walking around like bags of crap, then that suggests to me that the Sgts and Capt's aren't doing their jobs as superiors. 

** reference for my "Warrant Officers are not Snr NCOs" comment.  QR & O, Vol 1, Chap 1, Art 1.02 'Definitions'

"non-commissioned officer" (sous-officier)means a member holding the rank of sergeant or corporal;

and CAF Rank & Appointment Insignia

Dress and deportment aren't the only things that have seen a drop in the standard;  GSK (General Service Knowledge) has as well.  Like referring to anyone in the NCM Corps above the rank of Sgt/P02 as a SNCO. 
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 08:44:45 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2017, 08:18:48 »
Why do people always point to the Sgts and never the Warrant Officers?

Cuz Sgts are the backbone of the organization.
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2017, 08:20:10 »
Sigh, ... I'm a cranky old soon to be pensioned dinosaur.

You'll need to change your moniker then, me thinks.   ;)
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2017, 09:16:16 »
Generally, in Commonwealth and other Armed Forces, today's service dress uniform was yesterday's combat uniform. The predecessor units of the one on parade in the preceding photograph once fought in the same scarlets as the band is wearing, which was subsequently replaced with khaki drab service dress for field use. Tomorrow's field uniform will likely be form-fitting spandex with a powered armored exoskeleton and modular built-in radios, sensors, and weapons, and automatic chameleon camouflage, whereupon today's CADPAT will become the dress uniform.


*mind blown*
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Online Ostrozac

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2017, 09:16:37 »
When I joined the CF, over 34 years ago, all parades were done in CF greens and forage caps.  We never wore combats while on a formal parade.

I joined the CF over 26 years ago, and my sense at that time was that dress for parades seemed to be very much unit dependent. The Canadian Airborne Regiment seemed to rarely wear CFs (or later DEU), while the battalions of The RCR were bringing dress uniforms and colours for parades while deployed on operations in Cyprus.

I've suggested in the past that we should readopt Battle Dress (in appropriate modern synthetic fabrics) to fill the niche that was supposed to be filled by Garrison Dress -- a uniform cheaper and better looking than Combat Uniform but still durable enough for routine garrison work (have you ever crawled under a desk to reattach a disconnected printer cable while in DEU 3B? I have, and you don't resurface looking ready for parade).

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2017, 09:55:51 »
(have you ever crawled under a desk to reattach a disconnected printer cable while in DEU 3B? I have, and you don't resurface looking ready for parade).

OK. I just have to intervene here.

First, are you seriously suggesting that the one time in your life (Ok, maybe two or three out of a 26 years career) that you had to get under your desk to reattach a cable justifies dressing sloppily in CADPAT or acquiring a "garrison" dress of sorts?

Second, even while working at desk jobs in DEU, nobody is suggesting that you should be as spit and polish as if you were about to step on parade. There is the daily standard (and I have said it before - the standard is following good business attire practices from the professionals in your city, and no, I don't count engineers and software coders as professionals  ;D) which is clean, generally pressed and shoes black and clean - not necessarily "spit-shinned", and then there is the parade level for parades and important functions which has all the polish and crisp press in the world.

Finally, and I know this is something else the Navy is anal retentive about ... but have you considered getting your office cleaned properly by the personnel responsible for cleaning it up?  You know, regular cleaning stations of everything, over, under and all nook and crannies followed by an inspection, flashlight in hand, and perhaps a Captain's inspection from time to time! Then you could go under your desk occasionally without coming out covered in dust  [:D.

Offline Happy Guy

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2017, 14:44:54 »
I have reattached a cable underneath my desk while in DEU 3B.  I placed a couple of paper towels on the carpet to protect my pants.  When I got up I straighten my pants and shirt and I looked fine.

What you seem to be advocating is a return to a work dress uniform which I used to call the bus driver uniform.  I wore work dress while I posted in Calgary and garrison dress while I was working at LFCHQ St Hubert.  It was functional if you worked in an office environment or warehouse.  The problem with the work dress was that you didn't look military.  I do not want a return to a work dress type uniform because of the high cost, and we (the CAF) are frankly not capable of designing a uniform that is functional, comfortable, stylish and sufficiently military looking.  I believe that the Army made a bad style and comfort choice when we got rid of the CF Greens and accepted the DEUs.  A return to more universally recognized khaki brown uniform with a more modern cut would have been better.

I'm with OGBD here, what we have now is fine.  Leave it alone.

Back on topic, I'll agree that further analysis is required.  I've seen the British, US Army and USMC versions of the MultiCam and I have no idea which of these cam patterns will suit our requirements.  I think that if we do change the Army operational dress please re-look at the design of the uniform and not just the cam pattern.  Get rid of the velcro as much as you can!  Give me buttons for my pockets any day.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2017, 14:56:31 »
But...what would we do with the patches everyone is sporting now?

It might be out officially now;  RCAF pers will be allowed to wear sqn patches, skill/qual badges, etc on their CADPAT now. 
The only time you have "too much gas" is when you're on fire.

Offline MilEME09

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2017, 14:58:01 »
But...what would we do with the patches everyone is sporting now?

It might be out officially now;  RCAF pers will be allowed to wear sqn patches, skill/qual badges, etc on their CADPAT now.
I have started seeing senior officers wearing Div patches so im not surprised.

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2017, 18:16:11 »
you seem to be advocating is a return to a work dress uniform which I used to call the bus driver uniform.  I wore work dress while I posted in Calgary and garrison dress while I was working at LFCHQ St Hubert.  It was functional if you worked in an office environment or warehouse.  The problem with the work dress was that you didn't look military.  I do not want a return to a work dress type uniform because of the high cost, and we (the CAF) are frankly not capable of designing a uniform that is functional, comfortable, stylish and sufficiently military looking.  I believe that the Army made a bad style and comfort choice when we got rid of the CF Greens and accepted the DEUs.  A return to more universally recognized khaki brown uniform with a more modern cut would have been better.

Well....If having Work Dress pants and boots bloused doesn't look military, I don't know what would.  I guess you will win the argument though, as there seems to be a shortage of boots.   >:D
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2017, 18:19:41 »
Well....If having Work Dress pants and boots bloused doesn't look military, I don't know what would.  I guess you will win the argument though, as there seems to be a shortage of boots.   >:D

Work dress looked like a bus driver or possibly a gas station attendant.  With addition of the ascot, I'm at a loss for words for a description...
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2017, 18:31:58 »
Work dress looked like a bus driver or possibly a gas station attendant.  With addition of the ascot, I'm at a loss for words for a description...

I was living on a Radar Base in Saskatchewan when Work Dress came out.  Airmen never had Cbt Boots, so ankle boots were the order of the day.  With the initial issue, there was also a ball cap.  In those days, they didn't look much like bus drivers to me, although that is what they later became known as; but more like the local farmers out in the wheat fields.  They fit right in at the local Seed Mills and Grain Elevators. 

Perhaps we should bring back the pants, bloused of course, and Red T-shirts with unit crests on the Left Breast.  Commanders would wear orange T-shirts, Engineers wear yellow, Medical wear green......etc.  With the trend to go "retro" lately, this would take us back to the '60's and fit right in.....and should last us until Star Date 2050.
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Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2017, 19:33:01 »
I was posted to my first regiment in 1980.  We had a routine on Fridays of parade, maintenance morning, sports afternoon, refreshments at the Jolly Miller.  Only one parade a month was in "greens", the other three were in varying orders of dress, combat and work dress. These were very much formal parades, 0700 weapons draw, fall in in front of the barracks, markers called, march on your markers, the lot. Daily dress was combat with regimental tee shirt underneath.  This was 37 years ago, but then us 1 CBG guys were always non conformists.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 19:56:41 by Kat Stevens »
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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Offline MCG

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2017, 19:52:03 »
Work dress looked like a bus driver or possibly a gas station attendant.  With addition of the ascot, I'm at a loss for words for a description...
Google can help you with that:

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2017, 20:07:04 »
If that doesn't just scream "pump jockey", nothing will.
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2017, 20:07:47 »
I dunno.. the first google image when I type "CF work dress ascot" is below; given the odd headdress I'm thinking it must be some Reserve highland regiment...

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2017, 20:15:33 »
Hmmmm?  dapaterson's version of "CF work dress ascot" does look like a promising proposal, for non-male members who identify with this gender (Being non-gender specific in this discussion.).     :warstory:
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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2017, 23:01:56 »
I must admit that I think it's stupid (and somewhat disrespectful) to parade the colours in combat/Cadpat gear. Unless you're in a theatre of operations I guess.

I assume that it's a bad habit we've acquired from Uncle Sam. Good thing we don't have helmet liners anymore or I assume we'd be polishing those too, instead of our boots and the rocks :)

Agreed.  But if you compare the two above photos, you will notice (if you look closely) that, in the Brit parade, the colour party is in No. 1 dress (i.e. blues) so they make more than an effort to "respect the colours".  The Canadian colour party, on the other hand . . . I suppose we should be grateful that the boots are, at least, blackened.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #48 on: April 13, 2017, 13:05:29 »

It might be out officially now;  RCAF pers will be allowed to wear sqn patches, skill/qual badges, etc on their CADPAT now.

Looks like it must be official...https://www.facebook.com/ALCOMANR/posts/1456958294324788
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Offline Flavus101

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2017, 13:35:43 »
Looks absolutely ridiculous.

This whole fascination with velcro (whoops, I mean hook and loop) is mind boggling. Buttons are much more quiet and they rarely open up when you brush against something, velcro on the other hand...

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2017, 14:07:20 »
Looks absolutely ridiculous.

Hoping you include all the C Army patches and stuff that are getting thrown on CADPAT too.  Its not just the RCAF...but, I wish we weren't following suit.

I will hold onto my non Velcro sleeve CADPAT for as long as I can.  Maybe even longer!
The only time you have "too much gas" is when you're on fire.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2017, 16:06:46 »
Looks absolutely ridiculous.

This whole fascination with velcro (whoops, I mean hook and loop) is mind boggling. Buttons are much more quiet and they rarely open up when you brush against something, velcro on the other hand...

Tsk.. you should know that all it takes is some Special Forces training:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSK3maq8Cyk
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Offline GK .Dundas

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2017, 19:21:39 »
Tsk.. you should know that all it takes is some Special Forces training:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSK3maq8Cyk
Don't knock it it actually does work. I mean did you hear the Velcro  , I  didn't .
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #53 on: April 13, 2017, 19:44:14 »
Looks like it must be official...https://www.facebook.com/ALCOMANR/posts/1456958294324788

So one can have full-colour (no "at least 50% green" or similar restrictions) patches on CADPAT, but not on flight suits. 

Also, CWO Scarcella (on the right) must be making some sort of quiet revolt statement by continuing to wear the old-style faded CADPAT  >:D
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #54 on: April 13, 2017, 20:38:03 »
So one can have full-colour (no "at least 50% green" or similar restrictions) patches on CADPAT, but not on flight suits. 

Also, CWO Scarcella (on the right) must be making some sort of quiet revolt statement by continuing to wear the old-style faded CADPAT  >:D

Isn't the 1 CAD motto *"Fac, ut ego dico, non ut faciam tibi"?

Maybe "they didn't have any of his size"...that's what I get told when I need to exchange my operational dress the last few months.   >:D

*according to Google translate, that is Latin for "do as I say, not as I do"   ^-^
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Offline Flavus101

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #55 on: April 14, 2017, 02:10:28 »
Hoping you include all the C Army patches and stuff that are getting thrown on CADPAT too.  Its not just the RCAF...but, I wish we weren't following suit.

I will hold onto my non Velcro sleeve CADPAT for as long as I can.  Maybe even longer!

Absolutely I include those as well.

Same here, I like the old style pants better too...

Offline Loachman

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #56 on: April 15, 2017, 22:27:13 »
So its an army and RCAF thing. I think it's wrong and I hate seeing the Navy being sucked down into this slovenly attitude, but if people are making it up as they go along, I guess our next parade we'll do white gaiters for the sailors and black leather gaiters and brown gloves for the officers.

To quote my parents, "Would you jump off a bridge because everyone else is doing it?"

They've jumped off of the bridge in North Korea, too - even adding helmets with flipped-up NVGs to massed goose-steppers in Kim Fat-Boy's parade yesterday.

Offline FSTO

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #57 on: April 15, 2017, 22:51:35 »
They've jumped off of the bridge in North Korea, too - even adding helmets with flipped-up NVGs to massed goose-steppers in Kim Fat-Boy's parade yesterday.

So you want to emulate North Korea? Have at er. I guess.

Offline Loachman

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #58 on: April 16, 2017, 10:08:15 »
Where, dear boy, did I profess any emulative desire?

I was merely providing an indicator of a possible global military fashion tsunami.

But it would amuse me greatly to see fighter pilots parade like those* at 3:17 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKgf6_Mn7V4. Ours could add oxygen masks and G-suits as proof of their superiority.

* And no, I've not fallen for the propaganda. None of those guys have ever touched an aeroplane.

Offline FSTO

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #59 on: April 16, 2017, 10:59:05 »
Where, dear boy, did I profess any emulative desire?

I was merely providing an indicator of a possible global military fashion tsunami.

But it would amuse me greatly to see fighter pilots parade like those* at 3:17 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKgf6_Mn7V4. Ours could add oxygen masks and G-suits as proof of their superiority.

* And no, I've not fallen for the propaganda. None of those guys have ever touched an aeroplane.

Or a ship, or a tank that has seen a dirt road!
Well one thing I have to give the Chinese is that their NCO's will never to have worry about sizing their platoons!


Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #60 on: April 16, 2017, 11:06:50 »
I am personally thoroughly impressed...that they could muster up THAT many pairs of white gloves at once!!  I bet they all have keepers too!!

The only time you have "too much gas" is when you're on fire.

Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #61 on: April 16, 2017, 11:27:18 »
Say what you will, their drill and precision on parade is a thing of beauty to behold.  I never get tired of watching these videos as I can appreciate the amount of effort, dedication and time it took to be perfect like that.  Besides, the hotties in the pink uniforms and white go-go boots are especially compelling to my eyes. 
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline Loachman

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #62 on: April 16, 2017, 11:34:25 »
Sizing, and assessment for other physical attributes, was most likely done at the point of conscription where these people were streamed into a purely parade function. That level of drill excellence is only achievable if it is a specialty.

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #63 on: April 16, 2017, 11:48:40 »
Say what you will, their drill and precision on parade is a thing of beauty to behold.  I never get tired of watching these videos as I can appreciate the amount of effort, dedication and time it took to be perfect like that.  Besides, the hotties in the pink uniforms and white go-go boots are especially compelling to my eyes.

I personnally see perfection (in anything other than very few scenarios) as a waste of time, especially something as cosmetic as drill (don't need to be perfect to understand the whole reacting to orders and all)

Aiming for perfection during training?  Certainly.  Demanding a perfect result?  You'll spend 80% of your time chasing the last 20% of the results.  Waste of time that you could spend broadening your knowledge and skills.

Offline Rifleman62

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #64 on: April 16, 2017, 11:50:17 »
No rain on their parade. Those who screw up drill in NK are shot. Big incentive.  ;D

« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 11:52:51 by Rifleman62 »
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #65 on: April 16, 2017, 12:09:46 »
It seems to be a losing battle Pusser. Did you see the pictures of the CDS at MARPAC and the honour guard in NCD's and CADPAT?


Why do we have orders and directives when this crap goes on?

I also saw pictures from yesterday of the same outfit in Calgary.

I'm Army.  The only thing good that I see about this pic is my son. It'd be even better if my son was not in cadpat with the flags out.
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Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #66 on: April 16, 2017, 12:23:23 »
I personnally see perfection (in anything other than very few scenarios) as a waste of time, especially something as cosmetic as drill (don't need to be perfect to understand the whole reacting to orders and all)

Aiming for perfection during training?  Certainly.  Demanding a perfect result?  You'll spend 80% of your time chasing the last 20% of the results.  Waste of time that you could spend broadening your knowledge and skills.

This is a propaganda pageant, a tool, put on for the world to see and admire.  This has an important purpose to China and I agree with Loachman, this is probably all these people do for the State while they're in uniform.  They have plenty of people and can afford to have just show performers on the payroll.

Could they be doing something better with their lives?  Maybe... but the same could be said for all those professional athletes.  They're at the top of their tier, doing what they do to the best of their ability.  Could they have put those years of training and dedication into something more beneficial to society?  Again, maybe...  doesn't stop all the sports fans from ohhhing and ahhing while watching them to their thing.

Maybe those Chinese kids spend 80% of their time in uniform chasing that 20%.  They seem, to my eyes, to have caught it nevertheless.  Sure, you're right, good enough is usually good enough.  I can still stand back and watch someone do something much better than I could ever hope to achieve and admire their work.  (sure as frig, they look better than what's on display in the photo of our colour party, et al)
« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 12:26:44 by jollyjacktar »
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline LunchMeat

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #67 on: October 19, 2017, 02:18:49 »
I'm Army.  The only thing good that I see about this pic is my son. It'd be even better if my son was not in cadpat with the flags out.

What's so bad about the photo? Not every occasion where the Colours are flown require dress uniforms. Yes, the Colours are prestigious and shall be treated no different than royalty, however, our predecessors flew the colours and national ensign while covered in dirt, grease, grime, and blood of their brothers.

The whole "buttons and bows" bullshit is just that, bullshit.

I am no more less respectful to my fallen brothers and sisters because of the type of uniform I wore when the colours were flown.
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Offline LunchMeat

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #68 on: October 19, 2017, 02:28:19 »
There was a saying when I was in the army...

"No inspection-ready unit will likely pass combat, and no combat-ready unit will likely pass an inspection".

I've done CofC parades in combat w/FFO.

Come to think of it, what I consider the most important type of parades, they all seem to be in CADPAT...



Amen.
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Offline Remius

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Re: CF moving to Multicam?
« Reply #69 on: October 19, 2017, 07:04:19 »
What's so bad about the photo? Not every occasion where the Colours are flown require dress uniforms. Yes, the Colours are prestigious and shall be treated no different than royalty, however, our predecessors flew the colours and national ensign while covered in dirt, grease, grime, and blood of their brothers.

The whole "buttons and bows" bullshit is just that, bullshit.

I am no more less respectful to my fallen brothers and sisters because of the type of uniform I wore when the colours were flown.


There is a lot wrong with it. 
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