Author Topic: RCN ships in high sea states  (Read 5479 times)

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Offline FSTO

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RCN ships in high sea states
« on: March 14, 2018, 18:11:36 »
They are "coastal" vessels, Recceguy. Built for OUR coasts, which are basically open ocean areas. They can take a crossing without too much trouble unless they hit a storm mid-ocean. But then again, even aircraft carriers can be mauled pretty bad by storms if they get caught - Just ask admiral Halsey;D

Just read that book. After reading what happened to the survivors of the USS Indianapolis and the ones from the ships that sunk in that Typhoon I would much rather be in arctic waters over tropical waters. A quick death by hypothermia seems much more desirable than one by sunburn, madness and sharks. 
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 22:34:08 by PuckChaser »

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2018, 18:42:44 »
Sending Coastal Defence Vessels to the other side of the world. I'm guessing when I say they must've been like bobbing around like a cork on the crossing.

Not really I have been across on deployments 3 times now, its not that bad.
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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2018, 18:44:19 »
They are "coastal" vessels, Recceguy. Built for OUR coasts, which are basically open ocean areas. They can take a crossing without too much trouble unless they hit a storm mid-ocean. But then again, even aircraft carriers can be mauled pretty bad by storms if they get caught - Just ask admiral Halsey.  ;D

They have been in at least 14M seas without any troubles.
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2018, 19:03:42 »
Chief, 14 meters seas + is Beaufort Sea State 12 - hurricane. The frigates or IROs couldn't take that "without any trouble".

There has been one crossing I know of with the MCDV where they were hit by the tail of hurricane - down to Sea State 11 (violent storm - waves 11.5 to 14 meters), it was extremely tough on the crew and equipment and one of the MCDV tripped both shafts due to overspeed when the screws came out of the water, leaving them bobbing around dead in the water until they could be reset and making for very tense moments. I would not call that "without any trouble".

This said, and as I indicated, so long as they are facing normal seas, the MCDV's are fine to do crossings.

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2018, 19:59:57 »
They have been in at least 14M seas without any troubles.
Thanks for reminding me why I joined the Army... god speed to all you crazy folks that enjoy that.

Offline Furniture

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2018, 20:13:40 »
Chief, 14 meters seas + is Beaufort Sea State 12 - hurricane. The frigates or IROs couldn't take that "without any trouble".

There has been one crossing I know of with the MCDV where they were hit by the tail of hurricane - down to Sea State 11 (violent storm - waves 11.5 to 14 meters), it was extremely tough on the crew and equipment and one of the MCDV tripped both shafts due to overspeed when the screws came out of the water, leaving them bobbing around dead in the water until they could be reset and making for very tense moments. I would not call that "without any trouble".

This said, and as I indicated, so long as they are facing normal seas, the MCDV's are fine to do crossings.

I believe I remember that crossing(2005/2006 ish), I briefed the command teams before they went... apparently saying there are 17m seas forecast along the route wasn't clear enough information. ;D

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2018, 21:31:56 »
With our PM, it will be a mall deployment.

West Edmonton Mall?  :rofl:
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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2018, 23:01:13 »
Might as well deploy to Detroit  ;D

Offline ballz

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2018, 00:54:09 »
West Edmonton Mall?  :rofl:

He'd be safer in Mali than surrounded by Albertans :clubinhand:
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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2018, 01:04:06 »
He'd be safer in Mali than surrounded by Albertans :clubinhand:

I thought it read 'He'd be safer at the MALL than surrounded by Albertans.'

Which, when I last was at WEM, it still would've been an accurate statement. :D
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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2018, 04:14:01 »
Chief, 14 meters seas + is Beaufort Sea State 12 - hurricane. The frigates or IROs couldn't take that "without any trouble".

There has been one crossing I know of with the MCDV where they were hit by the tail of hurricane - down to Sea State 11 (violent storm - waves 11.5 to 14 meters), it was extremely tough on the crew and equipment and one of the MCDV tripped both shafts due to overspeed when the screws came out of the water, leaving them bobbing around dead in the water until they could be reset and making for very tense moments. I would not call that "without any trouble".

This said, and as I indicated, so long as they are facing normal seas, the MCDV's are fine to do crossings.

Yes I was the Chief Engineer and the situation was overblown by those ashore. We lost propulsion for about 1 min and it was restored. I would of had the shafts up sooner however I was on the aft end of the sweep deck securing a POL barrel that came loose. I wouldn't call it "tense" and all personnel were up and about. Point is the ship can handle it and have been handling it for the last 20 years. If it couldn't we wouldn't be still sending ships across.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 05:37:08 by Chief Stoker »
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2018, 09:47:35 »
Yes I was the Chief Engineer and the situation was overblown by those ashore. We lost propulsion for about 1 min and it was restored. I would of had the shafts up sooner however I was on the aft end of the sweep deck securing a POL barrel that came loose. I wouldn't call it "tense" and all personnel were up and about. Point is the ship can handle it and have been handling it for the last 20 years. If it couldn't we wouldn't be still sending ships across.


'Tis pleasant to stand on shore and watch others labouring in a stormy sea.'  ;D
   

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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2018, 09:57:51 »
Yes I was the Chief Engineer and the situation was overblown by those ashore. We lost propulsion for about 1 min and it was restored. I would of had the shafts up sooner however I was on the aft end of the sweep deck securing a POL barrel that came loose. I wouldn't call it "tense" and all personnel were up and about. Point is the ship can handle it and have been handling it for the last 20 years. If it couldn't we wouldn't be still sending ships across.

Kudos to you and your crew Chief.  I've sailed through hurricanes on a tanker and a CPF, neither of which were much fun and both made me become very good friends with the heads.  I cant imagine it would be anything but violent on an MCDV. 

We had filing cabinets break away from their securing and break peoples legs, had a sailor fall off the side of ladder and bust up his back because of a heavy roll.  And that was on the tanker.  HHT might remember that trip.  We went across to the Azores, IRO's Helo crashed on deck, we had to rig lines in the dispersal area to keep water from flooding down the stores and ammo lifts.  Smoking in the dispersal too... lots of fun, cant wait to go back  :o :nod: 
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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2018, 10:07:31 »
Kudos to you and your crew Chief.  I've sailed through hurricanes on a tanker and a CPF, neither of which were much fun and both made me become very good friends with the heads.  I cant imagine it would be anything but violent on an MCDV. 

We had filing cabinets break away from their securing and break peoples legs, had a sailor fall off the side of ladder and bust up his back because of a heavy roll.  And that was on the tanker.  HHT might remember that trip.  We went across to the Azores, IRO's Helo crashed on deck, we had to rig lines in the dispersal area to keep water from flooding down the stores and ammo lifts.  Smoking in the dispersal too... lots of fun, cant wait to go back  :o :nod:

It was rough and I won't dispute that but the nature of being on a MCDV for many years in all sorts of weather most of us was used to it and business as usual. The only person in their rack the entire time was the doc who sailed on a CPF normally. What I heard was someone sent a email and picture off the ship and of course it went viral through an extended email chain, thus the story that we were ready to go down. The ships can take an incredible amount weather and still get the job done. If I can find them, I'll post up a few pictures of the sea state.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2018, 10:16:52 »
It was rough and I won't dispute that but the nature of being on a MCDV for many years in all sorts of weather most of us was used to it and business as usual. The only person in their rack the entire time was the doc who sailed on a CPF normally. What I heard was someone sent a email and picture off the ship and of course it went viral through an extended email chain, thus the story that we were ready to go down. The ships can take an incredible amount weather and still get the job done. If I can find them, I'll post up a few pictures of the sea state.

Would love to see them.  Getting through that strikes me as a feat of seamanship.  BZ to that crew.  I would have died from exhaustion, dehydration and starvation.
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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2018, 14:11:23 »
Would love to see them.  Getting through that strikes me as a feat of seamanship.  BZ to that crew.  I would have died from exhaustion, dehydration and starvation.




Just another day in the life of a Kingston Class sailor.




"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline Furniture

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2018, 21:10:13 »
Quote from: Chief Stoker link=topic=123590.msg1525543#msg1525543 date=1521137483
Just another day in the life of a Kingston Class sailor.
[/quote

The standard we all aspired to...   :not-again:

Awesome pics though, would have been an interesting trip.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2018, 21:11:26 »




Just another day in the life of a Kingston Class sailor.

Surfing vacation? :)
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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2018, 21:13:34 »
Surfing vacation? :)

You could say that ;D
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2018, 21:22:06 »
"If everybody had an ocean..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s4slliAtQU

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2018, 21:30:50 »
Reminds me of taking IRQ across to the Azores.  She would completely disappear in the swells, then tower waaaay above us.  Quite the wild ride there and back.  Non stop action for two weeks.  This was the trip l was on with HT on PRE that he mentioned earlier.

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2018, 21:44:37 »
Reminds me of taking IRQ across to the Azores.  She would completely disappear in the swells, then tower waaaay above us.  Quite the wild ride there and back.  Non stop action for two weeks.  This was the trip l was on with HT on PRE that he mentioned earlier.

You mean like this?

"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2018, 21:55:51 »
I’m glad I didn’t join the RCN. Wow. Awesome stuff!
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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2018, 22:10:44 »
You mean like this?



Close, but no, l mean totally gone.  Nothing at all visable.  She was about 900m off our port side.  And when she was at the zenith, you were looking up at her at about a 45 deg. + angle.  It was like a carousel ride, quite the adventure.  About 30 seconds or so between the ups and downs, non stop.  The old man said he had seen it rougher but never prolonged like that.  The only time we weren't bouncing was when we went into the Azores to bunker.  All the way there and back from home, bounce, bounce, bounce.   ;D

Like this, Jim.  Best fun ever.

https://youtu.be/Sx57-LnuuFs

« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 22:22:28 by jollyjacktar »

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2018, 22:33:44 »
Some real cool pictures and stories here, figured I'd split this off for everyone.

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2018, 23:10:36 »
Ok, l did put this one in earlier but swapped it out.  I put it back because it shows a greenie coming inside, like they were coming into the dispersal area and what it looks like off to your beam in heavy seas at the 20 and 30 second mark for all you land lubbers.  And yes, that crap is cold when it hits you.

https://youtu.be/7wZLqURGu1s
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 23:46:38 by jollyjacktar »

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2018, 23:25:50 »




Just another day in the life of a Kingston Class sailor.

I toured the NANAIMO today - a very impressive ship and crew....
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: MCDVs in High Sea States
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2018, 06:00:59 »
I’m glad I didn’t join the RCN. Wow. Awesome stuff!

Remember I am a storesman when I say this so I cant relate to life in the field as an infanteer.  BUT lol Never once in the field did I wake up and question my life's choices, and ask "why am I here ?" At sea, almost every day...

But then we pull into some port and all the misery is forgotten...
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Offline NavyShooter

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2018, 07:24:39 »
Here was a 'little storm' we saw on MON a couple of years ago.

Not the worst I've seen.  I was holding onto the Gyro doing rounds once and read the roll angle as 42.6 degrees.

NS
Insert disclaimer statement here....

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Offline NavyShooter

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2018, 07:25:24 »
A few more...
Insert disclaimer statement here....

:panzer:

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2018, 07:29:51 »
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2018, 07:42:37 »
a few more pictures you may enjoy


"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2018, 07:50:29 »
Here was a 'little storm' we saw on MON a couple of years ago.

Not the worst I've seen.  I was holding onto the Gyro doing rounds once and read the roll angle as 42.6 degrees.

NS

That was probably the storm that was throwing guys around on ATH then.  Quite a few were seriously hurt when the collided with things.  Didn't do the old lady any favours either and contributed to her demise.

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2018, 08:02:15 »
All those rough waters made me think, you sailors must have steel cores!  Who needs Bosu Balls when your stabilizers are firing at all hours of the day!

Explain why sailors are so good in bar fights, they turned Ali's "Rope A Dope" in to a vocation!

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2018, 08:24:24 »
All these photos look like a battle of the rough seas.
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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2018, 08:33:19 »
The sea is every sailor's enemy at times.  She is cold, heartless and relentless at times.   And she will try to take your life if things go south.  When she is in her fury, it can be fascinating, beautiful and terrifying all at the same time. 

I love her and I'll miss her, as my sailing days are done, l think.

« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 08:36:16 by jollyjacktar »

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2018, 08:39:32 »
I love her and I'll miss her, as my sailing days are done, l think.

One more time mess mate! Join me on Freddy!
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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2018, 08:53:46 »
One more time mess mate! Join me on Freddy!

I'm too old and broken to bounce around like old, I'm afraid.  I have to pass the torch to you younger guys.   :salute:

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2018, 08:55:24 »
Couldn't agree more with Jollyjacktar.

BTW, if you look at the pics of NavyShooter, you now understand why, in Canada, we chose to set our hull mounted sonars below the ship, about one third distance from the bow, instead of in the bow, like the Americans. A sonar out of water ain't much use.

I remember one storm on the West coast when I was in MACKENZIE and we could actually see the sonar dome on YUKON when she was cresting! I assume they could do the same when looking at us, but for reason unknown (and I am sure everyone around here can attest to that), when we look at our consorts in a storm, we always feel like they have it worse than ourselves. Misery loves company, I guess!  :nod:

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2018, 09:07:58 »
I always liked RASing in rough weather. It could be entertaining to watch the greenies smacking the others and watching them plunge and roll.   :nod:

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2018, 09:08:19 »
Of course a heavy sea state in winter is no fun at all, from a set of WUP's I did about 15 years ago. Took a day alongside to remove the ice




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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2018, 09:21:44 »
One of the pleasures (so to speak) of being stuck in local waters or too slow. Unlike the "heavies", it's more difficult in the MCDV's to deke South East quickly into the gulf Stream for about 12 hours and melt it all.


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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2018, 09:32:00 »
Here was a 'little storm' we saw on MON a couple of years ago.

Not the worst I've seen.  I was holding onto the Gyro doing rounds once and read the roll angle as 42.6 degrees.

NS

Ah yes, the 24 hours of constant list to port crossing the Gulf of Maine. Great if your bunk opening faced to starboard, not so much if it opened to port (especially if you're Seat Trg...).

I remember everyone walking into the Wardroom for breakfast that day had the same look on their face when they saw all of our furniture bundled up in a pile, a look of "Wtf?" Followed immediately by, "Where am I suppose to eat my fruit loops?!".
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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2018, 10:16:42 »
Our transit from Hawaii to home on WIN. The sig wave was only about 3-4m with a few 5m and 6m seas thrown in for good measure.  The winds were the real culprit, they were out of the south at 25-30kt with gusts to 35kt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd2BjPkTJ4s


Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2018, 10:18:15 »
Our transit from Hawaii to home on WIN. The sig wave was only about 3-4m with a few 5m and 6m seas thrown in for good measure.  The winds were the real culprit, they were out of the south at 25-30kt with gusts to 35kt

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Yd2BjPkTJ4s" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Sandy bottom sailors ;)

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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #45 on: March 16, 2018, 10:40:02 »
Yes. For landlubbers out there: When you are on a long track with strong winds on your beam, it's pretty normal for the ship to be rolled and held down at a certain angle away from the windy side, just like a sailboat. In fact, the more flat surface  on your beam exposed to the wind, the more you get leaned over and held. That "flat surface" of a ship is actually called her "sail" area.

The IRO's were particularly subject to that, as were the old minesweepers.

Offline Colin P

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #46 on: March 16, 2018, 12:17:52 »
MCDV, the modern "Corvette"  :D

Offline Baz

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #47 on: March 16, 2018, 14:24:28 »
Here was a 'little storm' we saw on MON a couple of years ago.

Not the worst I've seen.  I was holding onto the Gyro doing rounds once and read the roll angle as 42.6 degrees.

NS

I flew in a Sea King down from Sheartwaer and embarked on HMCS Nipigon from Patrick AFB, Florida on March 12, 1993 in order to replace aircraft 12423 which had ditched on or about the night of 26 Feb 93 (crew all went swimming but got out)... it took us 10 days to get there because we broke down in Boston for 6 nights and then had to wait 3 dats for the ship to come back around from the Gulf of Mexico at Patrick.

March 12 was significant because
Quote
The 1993 Storm of the Century (also known as the '93 Superstorm, The No Name Storm, or the Great Blizzard of 1993) was a large cyclonic storm that formed over the Gulf of Mexico on March 12, 1993. The storm was unique and notable for its intensity, massive size, and wide-reaching effects; at its height, the storm stretched from Canada to Honduras. The cyclone moved through the Gulf of Mexico and then through the eastern United States before moving on to Canada. The storm eventually dissipated in the North Atlantic Ocean on March 15, 1993.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Storm_of_the_Century.  It hit us off of Norfolk on the 13th and 14th; at one point we went over 48 degrees and all the furniture in the wardroom broke loose.  We rode it out better in an old steamer than some of the other ships in StaNavForLant did though...

There was also a case, on HMCS Fraser I think, in the early to mid '90s that the spare engine broke loose in the hangar and was sliding around and they had to lasso it.

In the steamers there was no way to the hangar except outside, so if the upper decks were out of bounds for weather you had to go out through the bridge and over the top to the hatch at the front of the hangar, which was a pain to open in heavy winds, and then down a tiny ladder with the nose of the aircraft about 15 inches away.  You told the OOW you were going and then called him so he knew you got there, and the reverse to come back.

Offline Colin P

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2018, 15:28:43 »
CCG on the Westcoast had a young seaman killed by a landing craft that came loose on the welldeck of either the Wofe or Camsaul during a storm, apparently jumped off of the hatchcover to get a line on it without orders and got caught inbetween when the landing craft shifted.

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #49 on: March 16, 2018, 15:38:17 »
So easy to lose one's life at sea.  Sometimes I'm amazed we don't lose a guy or two like the big players do on a sort of regular basis.

Offline Furniture

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #50 on: March 16, 2018, 23:19:56 »
So easy to lose one's life at sea.  Sometimes I'm amazed we don't lose a guy or two like the big players do on a sort of regular basis.

Sometimes we even do big seas and other things at the same time, yet we manage through good training to get everybody home. The night PRO was burning we ended up in 3-4m swells drifting with no power. It was the hard work and training of the guys in the attack teams and section bases that got everybody through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVeNJVbGkF8

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2018, 12:22:24 »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxMClWhWS2U

Here's a 'little' trip across the pond.

Back in the old days.
Insert disclaimer statement here....

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Offline Occam

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2018, 12:53:15 »
Beer and smoking in the AMR.  How did we ever survive?

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2018, 13:06:35 »
Beer and smoking in the AMR.  How did we ever survive?

After AMR parties were always enjoyable.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: RCN ships in high sea states
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2018, 16:33:46 »
I've never sailed in a high sea state but I've spent some time skipping over them (rolling seas = rough air low level).  I've sat on EO watching Group 3s nose in hard and the screw come visible.  I always feel for the crew onboard, I know I get to climb out of the muck and RTB at some point and they've got to ride it out.

The one that sticks in my mind was a SAR re-tasking we picked up;  a Type 23 had taken a casualty onboard and a SAR helo was inbound from Stornoway.  We were IVO the Faroe gap after just getting a few barriers laid when the retasking came in.  We met up with the helo and flew a moving orbit until we got to the HMS;  it was about sea state 7, as the helo went in to lower the Doc off we did overwatch from an orbit watching everything on IR and it was something else to see hoisting happening as the stern of the frigate was coming out of the water.

I've had a tremendous amount of respect for ship and helo crews since then after watching that op go down.   
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