Author Topic: The US Presidency 2018  (Read 60459 times)

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Offline Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #625 on: November 15, 2018, 13:28:25 »
That is quite the supposition.         

Not really.  As I said, WW1 is not as culturally important in the U.S as it is in Canada or France or GB or other countries that were more involved at the time.
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #626 on: November 15, 2018, 14:14:58 »
I think that much of this discussion fails to meet the point.

There undoubtedly was a severe enough weather condition so that the air planning element recommended against flying to the site. Similarly I would assume that there was a concern about the ground transport security with the distance involved. I would expect, however, that, like any of these types of events, there was already a contingency plan for ground transport in place with a risk assessment.

The question I am left with is whether or not Trump saw this event as a significant enough one to trigger the ground transportation plan in light of the contingency plan risk assessment.

My viewpoint on this matter is greatly influenced by the fact that Trump did not tweet anything about there being a security risk that made travel unacceptable. His tweet addressing the issue said:

That can be interpreted several ways but IMHO it does not disclose a "security risk", just a difficulty that could be overcome if the President thought it important enough. Again, IMHO, while the Secret Service has a lot to say about security arrangements, it's up to the President and his political staff to determine if the risk is acceptable in the face of political reality. I would think that considering the significance of this event at this particular time the political backlash and criticism was readily foreseeable and the decision not to go but to send representatives was a poor one.

Do I think that he is deliberately dissing veterans or afraid of a little rain. No. What I do think is that he makes poor decisions and when it comes to making one that favours his "convenience" rather than other considerations. He, and his advisers (or maybe in spite of his advisors), makes impulse decisions that do not properly weigh the consequences of his actions. This was one of those. It's not a matter of deliberate disrespect just that the event didn't matter enough to him.

 :cheers:

So if Trump tweets the left is upset.

If he doesn't tweet, they get upset because he didn't tweet about national security concerns while visiting an enclave of islamic terrorism?

Not sure whether I've got that right.

What I'm finding, though, is that no matter how this is explained, or who's doing the explaining, some just cannot get their head around that this was probably a glitch, nothing untoward.

Even if it was because Trump had had a heart attack, there are those that would try extrapolate it to the point that Trump administered sodium pentothal to himself to avoid the cemetery service.

It has nothing to do with the Fallen or Remembrance and all about casting about and refusing to believe all this wasn't Trumps fault. Sad that the left let their personal vendetta and agenda take over such a solemn occasion, but I've come to accept that they have no more concern over sacrifice than the next protest. Nothing stands in the way if they can stick it to Trump. The agenda is number 1, not the truth.

I like Trump. I don't like the left. No surprise to anyone. However, I have priorities, unlike the single minded Trump haterz. Trump is human, he makes mistakes. I can admit that.

I don't know what happened, but I'll take the word of SME's over some second rate journalist, or those that just can't be satisfied that maybe, just maybe Trump might be innocent in all of this. They must be running out of rocks to look under. Or maybe they are finding so many friends there, they forgot what they were looking for. Loachman provided the most succinct, educational explanation I've heard so far, anywhere. Here, on other social media or in the Press. It's there in black and white for anyone that wants to understand. Yet there are those that discount it out of hand because of their hatred for Trump.

Not really.  As I said, WW1 is not as culturally important in the U.S as it is in Canada or France or GB or other countries that were more involved at the time.

Does that mean you're current narrative blames Trump not going because the US doesn't think WWI was culturally important, because that's the way it reads?

I have met hundreds of Americans that will disagree with you.

Maybe, it's just the pompous attitude Canadians seem to have when speaking about Americans.
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Offline Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #627 on: November 15, 2018, 15:23:58 »

Does that mean you're current narrative blames Trump not going because the US doesn't think WWI was culturally important, because that's the way it reads?

I have met hundreds of Americans that will disagree with you.

Maybe, it's just the pompous attitude Canadians seem to have when speaking about Americans.

Oh give it a rest.  Go back a few posts and read my thoughts about what I think about him not going and why.

Instead of shotgun blasting your thoughts maybe read and consider what people here are actually trying to say. I actually agree with you about why he might not have gone.  But you likely just skipped that.

I’ve already been warned once about responding to you. I suppose i’ll get another one.

Yes I actually do believe that WW1 is less important culturally to most Americans.  Look at all the movies made about Americans in WW1 compared to the myriad of WW2, Vietnam, civil war or any other major conflict other than WW1.  Or littérature or what ever.  WW1 seems to be more or less at the bottom or close to it.

WW1 was a coming of age for most British Colonial states.  It was also a much more drawn out affair for them than it was for the US.

It isn’t a knock on the US or Trump it’s just a fact.  Feel free to disagree but how about you argue the point without being so passive aggressive.

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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #628 on: November 15, 2018, 16:25:08 »
You'll have to use better bait than that.

I reserve the right to comment, my thoughts, on any given topic presented here, just like you and others.

It probably would have been better to just explain what you meant instead of attacking me.

Been warned about replying to me? That's really rich. You no doubt have. Likely by those that have not successfully silenced me, but that's a guess and really I could care less about faceless people making faceless comments about what I write.

It doesn't matter anyway, but again, thanks for making it all about me, then trying to slip a little explanation in there.

I've been written as a Trump boot licker here, literally, but no one seems concerned. I've been called a very long established alt right racist, nobody's concerned here. I've been demonized by the left, here, for my stances. People keep insisting I read their stuff, but they don't read mine or ask for clarification, before responding and calling me names or impinging on my integrity. Contrary to your, and others belief, I do read what is written and I read it like hearing a conversation. If what you're saying isn't making sense, I'll question it.

If you don't like my style or comments, challenge them.

I'll respond in kind to any that want to discuss things. I'll also respond in kind to those that wish to attack me instead of my comments.

I've about run my course on the subject of the cemetery anyway. There's those that have some intelligence and recognize that there were probably real circumstances that prevented the visit, then there are those that will accept nothing less than Trump wanting to protect his hair. The former warrant discussion, the latter don't

Enough of the tangent. You brought it out in the open, in public, I've given my side, in response. If you still want to vilify me, do it over PMs.
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Offline Loachman

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #630 on: November 15, 2018, 20:38:52 »
I am truly surprised to see that in the Washington Post.

I monitor a number of unconventional sources and analysts, as well as the "reputable" ones who prove less insightful and accurate reporting and commentary. The non-standard ones have been pointing this stuff out all along.

President Trump's background is business - and an often cutthroat one - and entertainment. He approaches his current job in the same way, self- and national-promotion, which generally involves a little excessive hype, but actual results are the most important.

He has frequently had to work with people that he doesn't like, and set aside differences, to achieve results - the "greater good". This is why he has been able to get further with Kim Jong-Un than any of his predecessors, firstly responding in kind, then holding out a carrot. Whatever his personal opinion of Kim Jong-Un really is, and he is certainly aware of Kim's brutal crimes, a peace treaty is definitely the "greater good".

One can find interviews with him going back decades on YouTube. He is remarkably consistent in his views over that time.

Yes, there are some truly cringe-worthy tweets, and he is far from perfect, but the US (and the planet) is far better off with him as President than any of his contenders, from either party, when one looks at the bigger picture.

And the entertainment value is second-to-none.

Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #631 on: November 16, 2018, 19:28:52 »
From the Washington Post no less........

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-could-be-the-most-honest-president-in-modern-history/2018/10/11/67aefc5a-cd76-11e8-a3e6-44daa3d35ede_story.html?utm_term=.ec7850fb8d83



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+300 « Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 19:36:47 by PPCLI Guy »
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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #632 on: November 16, 2018, 19:32:00 »
I dont see anyone caring. The situation is being handled. Nothing to talk about.

Just like the 10% tax cut for the middle class that was going to be brought in "in the first week of Nov", notwithstanding that Congress was not sitting I guess.

Oh that's right - that was another pre-election lie with no chance or hope of being enacted.

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Offline Brihard

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #633 on: November 16, 2018, 19:50:14 »
What’s Trump up to now? More than four thousand documented lies or mistruths since he was sworn in? Counterpoint or no, calling him an ‘honest’ individual is hardly credible.
+1,500 « Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 08:54:58 by Brihard »
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Offline Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #634 on: November 18, 2018, 08:58:35 »
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Offline mariomike

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #635 on: November 18, 2018, 09:42:03 »
Oh that's right - that was another pre-election lie with no chance or hope of being enacted.

Regarding the 2018 United States House of Representatives election,

Democrat votes:  58,590,379

Republican votes: 50,101,060

Source: The Cook Political Report
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WxDaxD5az6kdOjJncmGph37z0BPNhV1fNAH_g7IkpC0/htmlview?sle=true#gid=0


Offline kkwd

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #636 on: November 18, 2018, 11:00:19 »
Regarding the 2018 United States House of Representatives election,

Democrat votes:  58,590,379

Republican votes: 50,101,060

Source: The Cook Political Report
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WxDaxD5az6kdOjJncmGph37z0BPNhV1fNAH_g7IkpC0/htmlview?sle=true#gid=0

It doesn't sound so impressive when you add in the unopposed districts. There were 38 districts like that. By a rough count it comes out to about 4 and a half million votes where the Republicans didn't field a candidate. There were even districts where 0 votes were cast and the Democratic candidate prevailed. Raw numbers don't seem to tell the true story. Anyway, I thought the historic outcome of a midterm election was for the party holding the White House to lose at least the House Of Representatives. Is it different now? Just because, you know, "He" is in the President.
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Offline Brihard

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #637 on: November 18, 2018, 11:10:39 »
Anyway, I thought the historic outcome of a midterm election was for the party holding the White House to lose at least the House Of Representatives. Is it different now? Just because, you know, "He" is in the President.

Nope- in fairness to the man, he did properly observe the midterm tradition of losing control of the House of Representatives. So no different now. It was amusing to see him try to call it a victory though. That was some amusingly tortured logic.
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Offline kkwd

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #638 on: November 18, 2018, 11:15:15 »
Nope- in fairness to the man, he did properly observe the midterm tradition of losing control of the House of Representatives. So no different now. It was amusing to see him try to call it a victory though. That was some amusingly tortured logic.

Certainly, we all know how he is, he loves to put a spin on it.
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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #639 on: November 18, 2018, 12:32:54 »
Regarding the 2018 United States House of Representatives election,

Democrat votes:  58,590,379

Republican votes: 50,101,060

Source: The Cook Political Report
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WxDaxD5az6kdOjJncmGph37z0BPNhV1fNAH_g7IkpC0/htmlview?sle=true#gid=0

My statement has nothing to do with the outcome of the election. President Trump stated that the tax cut would be enacted before election day, even though it was apparent to outside observers that this would be impossible, as the House had risen.  This of course begs two questions: did the President know that he would have needed congressional consent in order to deliver a tax cut; and if he did in fact know that, is his statement an indication of his contempt for his base, or perhaps the American voter in general.
+300
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #640 on: November 18, 2018, 19:24:02 »
https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/365393-how-quickly-ny-times-forgets-obamas-lies-and-frauds


 
"How quickly NY Times forgets Obama's lies and frauds
© Getty

Donald Trump has been flogging the truth and twisting facts since the day he arrived in the Oval Office. But anyone who expected more candor from him as president than on the campaign trail was criminally naive. The real mystery nowadays is why the media seeks to expunge the falsehoods of prior presidents.

“Trump’s Lies versus Obama’s” was the headline in a Sunday Review New York Times piece aiming to drive a final coffin nail into Trump’s credibility. The Times claimed Trump has already “told nearly six times as many falsehoods as Obama did during his entire (8-year) presidency.”  The columnists seem so distraught that it is surprising the article is not in all caps.

But the Times’ list of falsehoods is itself a charade with gaping Montana-sized holes."
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Offline Brihard

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #641 on: November 18, 2018, 19:25:32 »
https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/365393-how-quickly-ny-times-forgets-obamas-lies-and-frauds


 
"How quickly NY Times forgets Obama's lies and frauds
© Getty

Donald Trump has been flogging the truth and twisting facts since the day he arrived in the Oval Office. But anyone who expected more candor from him as president than on the campaign trail was criminally naive. The real mystery nowadays is why the media seeks to expunge the falsehoods of prior presidents.

“Trump’s Lies versus Obama’s” was the headline in a Sunday Review New York Times piece aiming to drive a final coffin nail into Trump’s credibility. The Times claimed Trump has already “told nearly six times as many falsehoods as Obama did during his entire (8-year) presidency.”  The columnists seem so distraught that it is surprising the article is not in all caps.

But the Times’ list of falsehoods is itself a charade with gaping Montana-sized holes."

Obama has not been president in a couple years now, so the 'but Obama!' is wearing pretty thin and has long lost its relevance.
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #642 on: November 18, 2018, 20:10:53 »
Obama has not been president in a couple years now, so the 'but Obama!' is wearing pretty thin and has long lost its relevance.

I really don't see why. People are acting like Trump is the only one that ever lied as President. Many of the lies are simply self aggrandizing. Some rub people the wrong way. Whatever the reason, a yardstick needs to be established and you can't do that with one president. Obama, Bush and Clintons lies resulted in the wrongful deaths of thousands of people and the raping of countries like Haiti

How many of Trump's lies have gotten as many innocent people killed as Obama's or Bush's? How many countries has Trump destroyed?

I suppose it's useless talking about how many campaign promises he's kept compared to other president's. More than any in recent history.

But that would lay bare the hypocrisy of the democrats and the left and anyone else that spends time looking only at one side, in order to further their bias against somebody because they dislike him.

So yes, Obama, Clinton, the Bushs are as equally important to the argument of presidents that lie, as Trump is.

That's how I judge. Has Trump's lies created an illegal operation, like Fast and Furious, that has killed hundreds in Mexico and the death of US Border agents and other civilian Americans? How many troops have been killed because Bush lied about the reason to start a war? Have Trump's lies created any situations like Benghazi?

When I compare incidents like these, created by lies of former presidents, to Trump grandstanding and claiming the best economy ever, I have a hard time understanding where the left is trying to go. Thousands of deaths, caused by lies of former presidents don't seem to matter if Trumps detractors can zero in on his bombastic platitudes.
+300 / -300 « Last Edit: November 18, 2018, 23:15:34 by Fishbone Jones »
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #643 on: November 18, 2018, 20:14:36 »
Certainly, we all know how he is, he loves to put a spin on it.

As does everyone else.
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Offline Infanteer

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #644 on: November 18, 2018, 22:42:50 »
Tu Quoque.
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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #645 on: November 18, 2018, 22:56:42 »
Quote from: Fishbone Jones
like Fast and Furious, that has killed hundreds in Mexico and the death of US Border agents and other civilian Americans? How many troops have been killed because Trump lied about the reason to start a war? Have Trump's lies created any situations like Benghazi?

This is the main reason why I think Trump was and will always be a better choice for president.  The US has a sorid history of invading countries or getting involved in their affairs under bullshit reasons leading to soldier and civilian deaths.
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Offline Infanteer

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #646 on: November 18, 2018, 23:32:20 »
Tu quoque...again.
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #647 on: November 18, 2018, 23:49:11 »
Tu Quoque.

I'm not condoning it, but at the same time, if you want to try define his lies, they need to be taken in the context of presidential lies. This is not a, he did it, so can I. It is simply a way of defining what a presidential lie entails and the severity of those lies.

Simply, there are those that will demonize Trump for lying, but will give a buy to others who lied as President and killed people and countries.

That your hypocracy right there. It not right for Trump to lie. However, it's not alright to try define him as the worst liar. He may tell more than others, but his lies are nowhere near as dangerous and fatal as those told by other presidents.

The hypocracy also bleeds though for those that only concentrate on his faults.

Tu Quoque for sure, but not from my end.




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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #648 on: November 19, 2018, 00:01:59 »
On a different topic - the ongoing feud with Adm McRaven:

Quote
Architect of bin Laden raid: Trump 'threatens the Constitution' when he attacks the media
By Jake Tapper and Devan Cole, CNN
Updated 5:29 PM ET, Sun November 18, 2018

Washington (CNN)Retired Adm. William McRaven on Sunday stood by his previous statement that President Donald Trump's attacks on the news media represent "the greatest threat to democracy" after the President dismissed him as a "Hillary Clinton backer" in an interview that aired on Fox News.

"I did not back Hillary Clinton or anyone else," McRaven, who oversaw the operation that killed Osama bin Laden, told CNN. "I am a fan of President Obama and President George W. Bush, both of whom I worked for. I admire all presidents, regardless of their political party, who uphold the dignity of the office and who use that office to bring the nation together in challenging times."

"I stand by my comment that the President's attack on the media is the greatest threat to our democracy in my lifetime," McRaven said, referencing remarks he made about Trump last year. "When you undermine the people's right to a free press and freedom of speech and expression, then you threaten the Constitution and all for which it stands."

. . .

See rest of article here:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/18/politics/donald-trump-william-mcraven/index.html

 :cheers:
+300 / -300
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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #649 on: November 19, 2018, 07:25:09 »
On a different topic - the ongoing feud with Adm McRaven:

See rest of article here:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/18/politics/donald-trump-william-mcraven/index.html

 :cheers:
If the media hadn't rushed out to declare him not president, and then not "really president" they might have a leg to stand on. Unfortunately the media has proven partisan, and questionable when reporting on Trump.


I don't agree with demonizing all media,  all times, but the media has appeared less that impartial, and less than reliable. Don't just blame Trump for how this has gone down.
+600