Author Topic: Procurement programs started by the Liberals post WWII?  (Read 737 times)

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Offline Colin P

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Procurement programs started by the Liberals post WWII?
« on: September 21, 2018, 13:29:06 »
Conversation from elsewhere led to a question:

What procurement program post WWII was started wholly by the Liberals? I am thinking perhaps the Felix Upgrade, the leopard 1's (with a political gun to PET head as I recall to get it done). Any other ones?

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Procurement programs started by the Liberals post WWII?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2018, 13:32:34 »
The Canadian Patrol Frigate (CPF) program ?  F18s ? 
Lead me, follow me or get the hell out of my way

Offline Ostrozac

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Re: Procurement programs started by the Liberals post WWII?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2018, 13:57:52 »
The buildup/modernization that coincided with the Korean War. Centurion tanks, Sabre jets, HMCS Bonaventure, among others. All overseen by Louis St Laurent

Offline FSTO

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Re: Procurement programs started by the Liberals post WWII?
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2018, 13:59:45 »
RCN ships

IROQUOIS class (DDH) anti-submarine destroyer (4)
ANNAPOLIS class (DDH) helicopter carrying destroyer escort (2)
MACKENZIE class (DDE) destroyer escort (4)
RESTIGOUCHE class (DDE) destroyer escort (7)
ST. LAURENT class (DDH) helicopter carrying destroyer escort (7)

Sea King Helicopters

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Procurement programs started by the Liberals post WWII?
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2018, 14:51:14 »
Post war, from 1946 until 1969, saw what was, probably, the most significant modernization of Canada's military in all history ~ and that was a solidly Liberal achievement. About all we got, new, in the Diefenbaker era, was an austerity programme that featured ball point pens on which was printed "Misuse is abuse, you can help to reduce costs."

Under St Laurent, especially, Canada changed its compete military philosophy, going from a tiny regular force that relied on a large militia, whose capability was entirely mythological, to a larger, highly professional, adequately equipped regular army with a small reserve to provide a mobilization base.

All that changed in 1969 when a new kind of Liberal, Pierre Trudeau, wanted to (I believe was only prevented from by a cabinet revolt) disarm Canada, completely. He is dissuaded and we cut our NATO contribution in half and began the hasty and steady decimation of the Canadian Forces.

Conservative Brian Mulroney may have wanted to rebuild some of our military strength but he and his government were blindsided by the events of the late 1980s and early 1990s when their strategic vision was firmly focused on the 1960s.

Jean Chretien was Pierre Trudeau lite ...

Stephen Harper also, I think, wanted to rebuild but he was ignored by a weak minister (Peter MacKay) who was the captive (sort of political Stockholm Syndrome) of an intellectually empty defence staff who were much more interested in self aggrandizement than the defence of the realm.

Justin Trudeau is, well ... this is a military board.

As a general rule the Liberals were the "military party" from 1947 until 1967. The military didn't like Mackenzie King, and the feeling was mutual. Pierre Trudeau changed that, and a lot more ... and Canadians, a substantial majority of Canadians if what I was told by both Conservative and Liberal insiders was correct, agreed with him. We were, by 1967, simply tired of being a "grown up," "leading middle power," we wanted to spend our clearly visible wealth on ourselves, not on defending Europe and South Korea and heaven alone knows where else. We were even tired of "keeping the peace," because it cost money.

I think ~ personal opinion ~ that the Mulroney and Harper Conservatives were only moderately pro-defence because the Trudeau and Chretien Liberals were so seriously anti-defence; in their heart-of-hearts the Conservatives agreed with the national consensus which Pierre Trudeau recognized and nourished.
 
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Procurement programs started by the Liberals post WWII?
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2018, 15:03:20 »
E.R. Campbell:  Brilliant post and conclusion--BZ:

Quote
...
I think ~ personal opinion ~ that the Mulroney and Harper Conservatives were only moderately pro-defence because the Trudeau and Chretien Liberals were so seriously anti-defence; in their heart-of-hearts the Conservatives agreed with the national consensus which Pierre Trudeau recognized and nourished.

Mark
Ottawa
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Procurement programs started by the Liberals post WWII?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2018, 08:44:34 »
Regardless of party in power, my default recommendation on CAF procurement is Kim Nossel's book, Charlie Foxtrot:  Fixing Defence Procurement in Canada.

"Defence procurement in Canada is a mess, with hundreds of millions of dollars being routinely wasted, despite which the Canadian Armed Forces is woefully underequipped and lacking crucial capacity."
There’s nothing more maddening than debating someone who doesn’t know history, doesn’t read books, and frames their myopia as virtue. The level of unapologetic conjecture I’ve encountered lately isn’t just frustrating, it’s retrogressive, unprecedented, and absolutely terrifying.
~Chris Evans

Offline Sandyson

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Re: Procurement programs started by the Liberals post WWII?
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2018, 21:23:52 »
I agree entirely with Campbell.  I am not in agreement with the subject question of picking the Liberals. The parties of the day frequently do not reflect the political philosophies of their name. e.g. the Chretien-Martin team was much more financially conservative than Harper.  I think Canadians make military procurement when there is considerable profits to be made e.g. post war Europe recovery, or profits to be lost e.g leopard 1s or participation in Afghanistan. The Liberals just happen to have been in power the longest: thus more opportunity.