Author Topic: CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21  (Read 17940 times)

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Offline dapaterson

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Re: CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21
« Reply #175 on: January 26, 2020, 14:07:01 »
Some old favourite cartoons about Peter...

https://twitter.com/jamespmcleod/status/1221459375015038982
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Re: CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21
« Reply #176 on: January 26, 2020, 17:42:14 »
MacKay will be an easy target for the Liberals should he win the leadership, given his affiliation with the Great Blue Bogeyman and his helicopter antics, just to name those "scandals" that we already know about.   Sadly, those Conservative leadership candidates who could've actually defeated Trudeau's personality cult in the next election have chosen not to run.  I believe it's because they see no chance of Trudeau being beaten by any mainstream party in their current states and they don't want to be the loser in the next election.
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21
« Reply #177 on: January 26, 2020, 18:03:32 »
After Trudeau jr. flew illegally on a civilian helicopter (of the Aga Khan), I don't think he would be in position of calling Mackay on his inappropriate use of a military one.

At least, the military got training and flying hours that count towards preparedness from Mackay's antics.  :nod:

Offline Haggis

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Re: CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21
« Reply #178 on: January 26, 2020, 18:07:12 »
After Trudeau jr. flew illegally on a civilian helicopter (of the Aga Khan), I don't think he would be in position of calling Mackay on his inappropriate use of a military one.

The PM was never charged, tried or found guilty. Therefore, your perception of the event differs from his.

At least, the military got training and flying hours that count towards preparedness from Mackay's antics.  :nod:
  Do you think that will matter?  Or even be mentioned?
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Re: CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21
« Reply #179 on: January 26, 2020, 18:44:25 »
Jesus Christ himself could run as leader of the Conservatives and he would be tarred by the Liberals for not ensuring that 6 of his disciples were women.

My point is: Doesn't matter who the Conservatives pick: mud will be thown by the Liberals. If Peter Mackay wins the leadership, at least he brings a proven track record as a moderate and is a good communicator who can think on his feet. After that: the chips will fall where they fall.

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Re: CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21
« Reply #180 on: January 26, 2020, 21:44:51 »
...
  The "so what" is that we need to quit thinking of Western Canada as this "religious right" bastion driving the Conservative Party.  Their strength there, I suspect, lies far more in the regional and economic friction that has been a part of Canada from the start.

The social conservatism label for the west comes primarily from the Reform Party which formed as a social conservative alternative to the Mulroney Progressive Conservatives. That led to the Canadian Alliance which begat the Canadian Alliance / Progressive Conservative merger to form the Conservative Party of Canada.

IMHO the CPC dropped the "Progressive" to placate the western Reform elements to ensure conservative unity across the country and by doing so gave too much prominence to the further right Reform elements from the west. Harper kept them in check during his years but the social conservative element (which I agree is more spread out then it used to be but remains more centered in the rural component of the west and western Ontario) has been quite vocal in its advocacy within the CPC. My own MP is one of those - rural, social conservative, pro-life (endorsed by Campaign for Life as were 66 other CPC candidates, 46 of whom won their seats - https://pressprogress.ca/more-than-half-of-andrew-scheers-elected-conservative-mps-were-supported-by-anti-abortion-groups/).

Like the US, social conservatives are re-surging in Canada. It's hard to form a fiscal conservative party that is capable of generating the votes for defeating the liberals without bringing social conservatives in-house. Remember that the creation of the Reform Party led to the PC debacle in the 1993 election that brought back Chretien and destroyed Kim Campbell.

I think that this movement is dangerous for us fiscal conservatives but we have to recognize that it is deeply rooted in the CPC right now. We are loosing (if we haven't already lost) our agenda. On top of that, the strength of the social conservative movement within the CPC is scaring off the moderate centre that the CPC needs to form a majority in urban Canada. As a start we need to reclaim the term "Progressive" in the party's name and unequivocally affirm a pro-choice and LGBTQ friendly position. That's a hard row to hoe considering the opposition within. I sometimes wonder if it isn't easier to join the Liberals and start making them fiscally responsible  :dunno:.

 :2c:
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Offline Altair

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Re: CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21
« Reply #181 on: Yesterday at 11:07:41 »
The social conservatism label for the west comes primarily from the Reform Party which formed as a social conservative alternative to the Mulroney Progressive Conservatives. That led to the Canadian Alliance which begat the Canadian Alliance / Progressive Conservative merger to form the Conservative Party of Canada.

IMHO the CPC dropped the "Progressive" to placate the western Reform elements to ensure conservative unity across the country and by doing so gave too much prominence to the further right Reform elements from the west. Harper kept them in check during his years but the social conservative element (which I agree is more spread out then it used to be but remains more centered in the rural component of the west and western Ontario) has been quite vocal in its advocacy within the CPC. My own MP is one of those - rural, social conservative, pro-life (endorsed by Campaign for Life as were 66 other CPC candidates, 46 of whom won their seats - https://pressprogress.ca/more-than-half-of-andrew-scheers-elected-conservative-mps-were-supported-by-anti-abortion-groups/).

Like the US, social conservatives are re-surging in Canada. It's hard to form a fiscal conservative party that is capable of generating the votes for defeating the liberals without bringing social conservatives in-house. Remember that the creation of the Reform Party led to the PC debacle in the 1993 election that brought back Chretien and destroyed Kim Campbell.

I think that this movement is dangerous for us fiscal conservatives but we have to recognize that it is deeply rooted in the CPC right now. We are loosing (if we haven't already lost) our agenda. On top of that, the strength of the social conservative movement within the CPC is scaring off the moderate centre that the CPC needs to form a majority in urban Canada. As a start we need to reclaim the term "Progressive" in the party's name and unequivocally affirm a pro-choice and LGBTQ friendly position. That's a hard row to hoe considering the opposition within. I sometimes wonder if it isn't easier to join the Liberals and start making them fiscally responsible  :dunno:.

 :2c:
I was hoping the PPC could be fiscally responsible and socially liberal,  but sadly they ended up as fiscally conservative,  and socially far right.

Sadly,  the LPC won't go fiscally responsible. They exist because they encroached on the NDP,  more or less stole their lunch. If they abandon that for the fiscally responsible and socially liberal crowd the NDP will be the main beneficiary.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 12:27:05 by Altair »
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21
« Reply #182 on: Yesterday at 11:31:42 »
The social conservatism label for the west comes primarily from the Reform Party which formed as a social conservative alternative to the Mulroney Progressive Conservatives. That led to the Canadian Alliance which begat the Canadian Alliance / Progressive Conservative merger to form the Conservative Party of Canada.

IMHO the CPC dropped the "Progressive" to placate the western Reform elements to ensure conservative unity across the country and by doing so gave too much prominence to the further right Reform elements from the west. Harper kept them in check during his years but the social conservative element (which I agree is more spread out then it used to be but remains more centered in the rural component of the west and western Ontario) has been quite vocal in its advocacy within the CPC. My own MP is one of those - rural, social conservative, pro-life (endorsed by Campaign for Life as were 66 other CPC candidates, 46 of whom won their seats - https://pressprogress.ca/more-than-half-of-andrew-scheers-elected-conservative-mps-were-supported-by-anti-abortion-groups/).

Like the US, social conservatives are re-surging in Canada. It's hard to form a fiscal conservative party that is capable of generating the votes for defeating the liberals without bringing social conservatives in-house. Remember that the creation of the Reform Party led to the PC debacle in the 1993 election that brought back Chretien and destroyed Kim Campbell.

I think that this movement is dangerous for us fiscal conservatives but we have to recognize that it is deeply rooted in the CPC right now. We are loosing (if we haven't already lost) our agenda. On top of that, the strength of the social conservative movement within the CPC is scaring off the moderate centre that the CPC needs to form a majority in urban Canada. As a start we need to reclaim the term "Progressive" in the party's name and unequivocally affirm a pro-choice and LGBTQ friendly position. That's a hard row to hoe considering the opposition within. I sometimes wonder if it isn't easier to join the Liberals and start making them fiscally responsible  :dunno:.

 :2c:

We've taken our eye off of the secularization ball and, as a result, have been successfully assaulted via a religious right flanking, funded by a foreign power:

"Academics and people in general haven’t paid enough attention to the Christian right in American politics. In 2010, Marci McDonald, Canadian journalist and author of The Armageddon Factor: The Rise of Christian Nationalism in Canada, noted that some people doubted such groups could impact Canada: “Surely, you don’t think it can happen here. This is a profoundly different country than the United States. Christian right groups in Canada are here to stay. With their stealth manoeuvring, they’ve managed to politically mobilize their members not only through the effort of pastors at the pulpit, but also through think tanks, para-church organizations and other Christian institutions."

https://www.bchumanist.ca/the_rise_of_the_christian_right_in_canada
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Re: CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21
« Reply #183 on: Yesterday at 13:36:21 »
We've taken our eye off of the secularization ball and, as a result, have been successfully assaulted via a religious right flanking, funded by a foreign power:
https://www.bchumanist.ca/the_rise_of_the_christian_right_in_canada

Interesting link, daftandbarmy,

Quote
Among Christian right organizations, 81 per cent of white evangelicals are credited with helping propel Donald Trump to the White House in 2016.

The Christian right in Ontario clearly credits itself for Ford’s victory.

Do you think this will have much / any influence on the next generation of CPC leadership?
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 15:59:09 by mariomike »

Offline FJAG

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Re: CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21
« Reply #184 on: Yesterday at 16:13:18 »
Wikipedia gives a good summary of the topic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right

It's noteworthy that the Progressive Conservatives were influential in the incorporation of a reference to God in the preamble of our Charter of Rights back in 1980/81:

Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law

While some hold that the reference has no legal value, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamble_to_the_Canadian_Charter_of_Rights_and_Freedoms one does wonder what could happen if politically activist social conservative judges take hold like they are doing in the US. If it means nothing, it should come out. I take it as one of those "camel's nose under the tent" issues. We all know, however, that no one will have the courage to take it on. The trouble with the religious aspect to social conservatism is that it only works for the Christian Right while they are a majority or an influential minority. What happens when some other religion becomes dominant? My view - get the country secular now, while you still can.

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Re: CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21
« Reply #185 on: Yesterday at 16:24:44 »
Next into the ring:  Erin O'Toole ...
Quote
Ontario MP Erin O'Toole confirmed Monday he is joining the race to lead Canada's Conservatives, promising to bring "true blue leadership" to the party as it looks for a successor to Andrew Scheer.

This is O'Toole's second run for the leadership — he placed third behind Scheer and Maxime Bernier in the 2017 contest, with about 20 per cent of the vote on the final ballot.

O'Toole, who serves as Conservative foreign affairs critic, released a slickly produced campaign launch video highlighting his time as a tactical navigator in the Royal Canadian Air Force.

O'Toole pitched himself as a fighter — a leader willing to "fight" for jobs in the manufacturing and natural resources sectors and to "defend our history, our institutions against attacks from cancel culture and the radical left."

"We are in a battle for the heart and soul of the Conservative Party. This leadership is a contest about what kind of party we are — a party that becomes more like the Liberals, or one that believes we win when we take a principled conservative stand," O'Toole said in a statement announcing his run ...
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Re: CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21
« Reply #186 on: Yesterday at 17:08:29 »
Good video, well produced.

For the record, I know Erin O'Toole. Not well enough to call him a friend, but well enough.

What Erin says in the video and the way he says it is the way he is in real life: he is not putting on an act for the camera.

I think he is welcome addition to the leadership race and is worthy of giving his ideas serious consideration.

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Re: CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21
« Reply #187 on: Yesterday at 17:31:26 »
I looked at his Campaign Life Coalition evaluation for the last election and he was awarded a "Yellow" category because of his pro homosexual etc rights position, his pro marijuana position, and his "not re-open abortion debate" position (although he was considered "educable" due to his voting in favour of Bill 225 (criminalizing hurting or killing pre-born child while assaulting pregnant mother).

https://www.campaignlifecoalition.com/voting-records/view/level/mp/id/11259/name/erin-o-toole#votes

Seems he's not part of the social conservative cartel.

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Offline Brihard

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Re: CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21
« Reply #188 on: Yesterday at 17:49:58 »
I looked at his Campaign Life Coalition evaluation for the last election and he was awarded a "Yellow" category because of his pro homosexual etc rights position, his pro marijuana position, and his "not re-open abortion debate" position (although he was considered "educable" due to his voting in favour of Bill 225 (criminalizing hurting or killing pre-born child while assaulting pregnant mother).

https://www.campaignlifecoalition.com/voting-records/view/level/mp/id/11259/name/erin-o-toole#votes

Seems he's not part of the social conservative cartel.

Oh nice, useful website, thanks. Anyone in future elections who gets their 'green light' cannot and will not get mine.

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Offline mariomike

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Re: CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21
« Reply #189 on: Yesterday at 18:07:08 »
I looked at his Campaign Life Coalition evaluation for the last election and he was awarded a "Yellow" category
 

Oh nice, useful website, thanks. Anyone in future elections who gets their 'green light' cannot and will not get mine.

Mines from Toronto, so got an automatic red light.  :)
https://www.campaignlifecoalition.com/voting-records/level/mp/province/
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 18:11:59 by mariomike »

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Re: CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21
« Reply #190 on: Yesterday at 18:45:32 »
Mines from Toronto, so got an automatic red light.  :)
https://www.campaignlifecoalition.com/voting-records/level/mp/province/

Mine comes from a farm so is quite green not to mention she mentioned her pro-life stance on her web site until just before the election when it magically disappeared.  :waiting:
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Re: CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21
« Reply #191 on: Yesterday at 18:52:36 »
^ Timing is everything.  :)