Author Topic: Navy drones  (Read 2221 times)

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Offline Spencer100

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Offline Dimsum

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2019, 20:40:18 »
Looks like it, with contractors fixing and flying them off the ships.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2019, 22:01:03 »
Looks like a "Modest Proposal" from the old CASR website.
Anyway, it's something and that's better than nothing!

Edit: the "special operations payload" sounds all spooky and stuff like that. :)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 22:06:02 by Cloud Cover »
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2019, 12:15:02 »

Offline Underway

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2019, 19:10:31 »
It's quite exciting.  AESA radars on a RPA are pretty good.  And by having them contracted it allows for constant improvement in the RPA, like what happened with the ScanEagle program.  They just updated EO/IR camera's as they went because the capability was there.  Instead of the military running a whole new RFP etc... to get new EO/IR.  Also means the aircraft will be showing up Q3 or Q4 of this year and will be able to go right on ship as there will be no need to train the ships crew on operations.

My only concern is that on deploying ships having contractors onboard is irritating...  not as irritating as NTOG mind you but still...  ;)

Offline NavyHopeful

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2019, 01:55:40 »
I actually got qualified this fall as an Operator/Technician for the Qinetiq SNYPER-UAS this past fall.  The last I had heard was that the original intention for the SNYPER was to be a target for AAW, similar to how the Hammerhead is used for ASuW.  They were looking at adding a camera to the UAS so that they could expand the use of the SNYPER for things like gathering information on a VOI prior to a boarding, in the event that there is no helo onboard.

I think it's a great secondary duty for a sailor, and it also helps enhance the mission by using innovative ways to do the job that will, in turn, save the government a bunch of money by NOT having to fly a helo.

Just my  :2c:

Rev

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2019, 09:26:03 »
I'm sorry, but ...
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... I have to say what I know many are thinking ...
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... the thread title, 'Navy drones,' made be think, right off the bat, that this was a thread about all the RCN HQ staff officers in Ottawa.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2019, 11:58:41 »
The strategic thinkers, forward looking equipment gurus for the RCN work for the Directorate of Naval Requirements.  Which abbreviates to DNR, a medical term used for those beyond help - Do Not Resuscitate.
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
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Offline FSTO

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2019, 12:01:56 »
The strategic thinkers, forward looking equipment gurus for the RCN work for the Directorate of Naval Requirements.  Which abbreviates to DNR, a medical term used for those beyond help - Do Not Resuscitate.
DAR and DLR are pillars of transformation and forward thinking?

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2019, 12:03:39 »
Nope.

But their acronyms are nowhere near as funny.

(Hey, I am the one who suggested that Maternity CADPAT was designed by and for overweight male staff officers in DLR... I am an equal opportunity hater).
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2019, 14:45:18 »
But their acronyms are nowhere near as funny.
/quote]

You just need to hear "DAR" spoken in a Brit or Aussie accent then. 

But back to the RCN RPAS thing, kudos to them for getting at least one system (the Puma) in operation in a short timeframe. 
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Underway

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2019, 11:34:59 »
Now for some news on UUV's

AUVSI News

Quote
Sonardyne Inc. has announced that its integrated navigation, positioning and communications technology will support Cellula Robotics’ new, fuel cell-powered long-range UUV, which is being designed for the Canadian defense department.

Known as Solus-LR, the UUV is being designed to be able to travel up to 2,000 kilometers, and stay submerged for missions stretching months at a time with support from an onboard fuel cell power pack.

Cellula Robotics has ordered one of Sonardyne’s high-performance SPRINT-Nav subsea navigation instruments for the UUV so that it can meet these long-duration and long-distance navigational requirements. SPRINT-Nav combines a SPRINT INS, Syrinx 600 kHz DVL and a high accuracy intelligent pressure sensor in a single housing, making it one of the smallest and highest performing combined inertial navigation instruments on the market, Sonardyne says.

Cellula Robotics has also ordered a Micro-Ranger 2 Ultra-Short BaseLine (USBL) system with optional Marine Robotics software feature pack, and an AvTrak 6 combined transponder and telemetry transceiver—which will be integrated into the UUV—so that it can track the vehicle from the surface, receive data packages from it, and send mission commands to it.

Described as Sonardyne’s most compact underwater target tracking system, Micro-Ranger 2 is built around Sonardyne’s 6G hardware and Wideband 2 digital acoustic technology platform, which delivers consistently in any operational scenario, the company says.

Sea trials of the Solus-LR are expected to start later this year, and will run through early next year. They will be held close to Cellula’s Robotics’ headquarters, in the Indian Arm fjord, near Vancouver, British Columbia.

Months at a time with 2000 nm is an impressive goal.  I can see a ship just dropping one off in a specific area (Syria coast for example) and just letting it patrol for a month or two, keeping track of the coming and going of ships and subs.

I also quite like how DRDC picks certain things and focus' on them.  Integrating sonar info onboard ships in a better way, rest/sleep cycles for ships crew etc...  Things that are small but really make a difference when they start working.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2019, 11:50:12 »
Now for some news on UUV's

AUVSI News

Months at a time with 2000 nm is an impressive goal.  I can see a ship just dropping one off in a specific area (Syria coast for example) and just letting it patrol for a month or two, keeping track of the coming and going of ships and subs.

I also quite like how DRDC picks certain things and focus' on them.  Integrating sonar info onboard ships in a better way, rest/sleep cycles for ships crew etc...  Things that are small but really make a difference when they start working.

Clearly, the US Navy is trying to keep up with the other services with respect to being able to do their job globally while being able to get home each night to walk the dog ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoE7jVno2Uc
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Underway

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2019, 21:55:16 »
Clearly, the US Navy is trying to keep up with the other services with respect to being able to do their job globally while being able to get home each night to walk the dog ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoE7jVno2Uc

Canadian Navy.  Its a Defence Research and Development Canada project.   ;)

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2019, 12:38:11 »
Meanwhile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFTToTsJuY0&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2U84P2xJ_bEPX6hTxVqYpWgCG6d2F-Ml3m6Hk0sxGANdhfuP8jEFuqRoc


Imagine a fleet of these operating with towed array's listening for subs.

very slow, no sprint ability to move them where they're needed, no ability to carry a kill store...I'm not really impressed.  The array wouldn't be a very big one...
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Everything happens for a reason.

Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2019, 16:55:07 »
Now for some news on UUV's

AUVSI News

Months at a time with 2000 nm is an impressive goal.  I can see a ship just dropping one off in a specific area (Syria coast for example) and just letting it patrol for a month or two, keeping track of the coming and going of ships and subs.

I also quite like how DRDC picks certain things and focus' on them.  Integrating sonar info onboard ships in a better way, rest/sleep cycles for ships crew etc...  Things that are small but really make a difference when they start working.
Indian Arm has seen a lot of UAV work, the early semi-submersibles were a common sight, remember doing a seismic job out there while they were testing the drones, it would be a collision course with your vessel, then auto detect and alter course away, that was mid 90's.   

Offline Underway

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2019, 22:35:59 »
very slow, no sprint ability to move them where they're needed, no ability to carry a kill store...I'm not really impressed.  The array wouldn't be a very big one...

Well the way I look at it is they loiter, and move about slowly in a specific area.  Then when they detect something interesting they call you EITS to come and do a more "detailed analysis".  Intelligence gathering UUV is a valuable asset, esp underwater.

Indian Arm has seen a lot of UUV/USV work, the early semi-submersibles were a common sight, remember doing a seismic job out there while they were testing the drones, it would be a collision course with your vessel, then auto detect and alter course away, that was mid 90's.   

UAV fly's.  I assume that was just a typo!   ;D  Indian Arm is a great place to do that sort of work.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2019, 00:47:40 »
Indian Arm has seen a lot of UAV work, the early semi-submersibles were a common sight, remember doing a seismic job out there while they were testing the drones, it would be a collision course with your vessel, then auto detect and alter course away, that was mid 90's.

I grew up in the Deep Cove area and Indian Arm was one of our playgrounds for swimming, fishing etc. Not many people in North Van are from 'round there anymore, and I was talking to some people, a few months ago, about 'Indian Arm'. They looked at me like I had kicked a kitten, and I'm like 'what? what did I do?'.

I had used the 'I word', of course.  :facepalm:
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2019, 08:44:30 »
Well the way I look at it is they loiter, and move about slowly in a specific area.  Then when they detect something interesting they call you EITS to come and do a more "detailed analysis".  Intelligence gathering UUV is a valuable asset, esp underwater.


If they were 'in significant numbers'...maybe?  I'd like to see more info on (1) how much of an area can a single unit monitor (2) what happens with the data it is receiving (someone has to do analysis...where is that done and who is doing it).

It is going to have to broadcast the data somehow...if the opposing force knows there is a field of these things around a certain area, then it is performing the same function as a minefield really (something to go around). 

They have some cap's, no doubt but we are pretty thin on ASW as it is;  I'd invest in other assets before dropping dollars on this (we simply don't have the budget we need now, let alone adding systems like this in place).   :2c:
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Offline Underway

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2019, 09:46:31 »
If they were 'in significant numbers'...maybe?  I'd like to see more info on (1) how much of an area can a single unit monitor (2) what happens with the data it is receiving (someone has to do analysis...where is that done and who is doing it).

It is going to have to broadcast the data somehow...if the opposing force knows there is a field of these things around a certain area, then it is performing the same function as a minefield really (something to go around). 

They have some cap's, no doubt but we are pretty thin on ASW as it is;  I'd invest in other assets before dropping dollars on this (we simply don't have the budget we need now, let alone adding systems like this in place).   :2c:

I think at this time they are still proving the concept.  If they can get it to do 2000nm and/or have 3 months endurance then the thoughts on sensors come into play.  Perhaps a new system that has room for sensors.  Last sail off the coast of Syria has really shown me the light on how useful this would be.  Combined with MPA, shipborne helo etc... those tight quarter waters would make things much more difficult for a DE sub to hide.

A persistent unseen sensor is invaluable.

Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2019, 10:09:08 »
The UUV would be good for detecting mines.

Detecting subs?  I am not sold, not yet.  Would the UUV utilize auto-detect software?  If so it would have to have an on-board database of both friendly and enemy assets.  Would it utilize active or passive detection?  Active sonar would be tricky because the UUV could inadvertently give away friendly the position of friendly subs (as well as the position of the UUV).  “Ping-stealing” is a thing and it is very effective.  Also active sonar can’t distinguish between friend or foe.

Without a doubt Russia and China would do anything in their power to capture one of these, which would be easy.  If the UUV had a database of ASW assets, it would be even more attractive.

As much as industry wants to push/sell auto-detect/auto-classify software, humans still need to be in the analysis chain.

I feel that our SOSUS network combined with the strategic placement of underwater assets sufficient enough for undersea monitoring.

The last thing I want is another asset sending me off chasing Poss-low contacts.  The navy does that more than enough.  I know that is part of the job, but sometimes it does get a little ridiculous.   







« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 10:15:42 by Dolphin_Hunter »

Offline Colin P

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2019, 23:26:23 »
Well the way I look at it is they loiter, and move about slowly in a specific area.  Then when they detect something interesting they call you EITS to come and do a more "detailed analysis".  Intelligence gathering UUV is a valuable asset, esp underwater.

UAV fly's.  I assume that was just a typo!   ;D  Indian Arm is a great place to do that sort of work.

Sorry should have been AUV which is civy world talk. UUV sounds like it should be a birth control device....

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Navy drones
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2019, 00:52:06 »
Sorry should have been AUV which is civy world talk. UUV sounds like it should be a birth control device....

If it was armed with a good sized warhead, it would be a good birth control device :)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon