Author Topic: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges  (Read 8394 times)

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Offline Brihard

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #100 on: November 30, 2019, 21:31:34 »
There are those in the military that like Trump pardoned the men that he did because it showed that he had their back. Some of our policies are stupid . Like an AD might see a man get far more serious punishment than it should. Mistakes are common in the military. Look at ww2 photos and you might see soldiers posing with dead enemy. In todays pc world there is shock and horror. I looked at your profile to see if had even served or your opinions come from civvy street. I have concluded the latter.

Murder isn’t a mistake. It’s a war crime.

Out of curiosity, why do you weakly try to shift focus to Jarnhamar’s employment history rather than focusing on the merits of what he said? Is there a single part of his argument that depends on him having served to be correct? If hypothetically he *had* actually served in the military, would it strengthen his position? Is the law of armed conflict something that can only be meaningfully grasped by those in uniform? If someone were to make the same argument as him, except that that person had four tours in two different countries, had been blown up, ambushes, and had shot people, and had commanded soldiers downrange, would that person’s position automatically be stronger than his even if the exact same things were written?

I know I’ve been accused of arrogance on this site before, but buddy, you’re taking the cake.
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #101 on: December 01, 2019, 01:12:08 »
...I looked at your profile to see if had even served or your opinions come from civvy street. I have concluded the latter.

As the target of your incorrect assessment said, “irrelevant.”

It could be that for all your past talk about service to America, you are in fact a poser, a civilian with your imaginative story of having served, trying to self-aggrandize to make you feel more important than warranted...but like yours, such supposition doesn’t change the truth of the situation noted earlier...POTUS legally used his authority to protect a dishonorable soldier, full stop.

Regards
G2G
+400 « Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 08:37:33 by Good2Golf »

Offline Baz

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #102 on: December 01, 2019, 07:02:42 »
As someone who does not currently serve, I have both a right and a duty to ensure that the military that acts on my behalf follows the current social norms of my society.  We don't get to break the rules we established just because "they" do.

If our main ally decides to institutionally start to change the rules, on a pretext that war is war (ironically thereby creating a cycle of hatred, see the Hitler Youth vs Canadians at Normandy), then I'm certainly in a place to express my opinion,  and not just in corners of the internet (don't be surprised if some of us are actually trying to influence our government's response).

As I said earlier, this is not about supporting Trump; even though I think he is negatively disruptive, I understand why people support what he stands for.  However, he is (arguably unwittingly) changing the rules on this and other things.  I, and obviously other's in this discussion, find that concerning.
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Offline QV

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #103 on: December 02, 2019, 10:47:34 »
If Trump's conduct is so wrong, then I expect both the house and the senate to impeach him.  And failing that, for him to lose the next election.

But, I believe most of the MSM reporting is purposely skewed to harm Trump and I think a lot of Americans think that way too.  The problem here is that now even if the MSM had something legitimate, true, and harmful to report on Trump, they have damaged their credibility to the point where everything is in doubt.  So, he now gets the benefit of that doubt. 


Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #104 on: December 02, 2019, 13:59:17 »
There are those in the military that like Trump pardoned the men that he did because it showed that he had their back. Some of our policies are stupid . Like an AD might see a man get far more serious punishment than it should.

The guy was turned in by his fellow SEALs.  Who has their back?  To me, this is like a union standing up for that total soup sandwich that is a danger to work with and ignoring the impact on all the other people in that shop. It's missing the obvious big picture to score cheap, short term points, and is bad for the majority of the group.

This action undermines the whole military justice system, and that's dangerous for everyone. ROEs and the Mil Justice are checks and balances against the kind of terrible abuses you can have otherwise, and those things are the difference between being professionals or roving death squads. Being proud of your troops doesn't mean unquestioning support in everything they do, and ignoring that this guy broke the code of conduct and others may have committed murder is an insult to the vast majority that follow the rules and don't condone this kind of behaviour, as it tarnished the reputation of the SEALs.

The guy wasn't convicted by a bunch of random civvies, it was his peers that made the decision, his peers that reported him, and the CoC that was overseeing the review. Please explain how a person that has never served knows better than them what is proper conduct for military member in a theatre of war.
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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #105 on: December 02, 2019, 14:32:32 »
This right here:
... The guy wasn't convicted by a bunch of random civvies, it was his peers that made the decision, his peers that reported him, and the CoC that was overseeing the review ...
... as well as his peers being denied a chance to determine whether or not he gets to stay in the SEALS.

Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right.

Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should.
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Offline Brihard

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #106 on: December 02, 2019, 17:38:35 »
But, I believe most of the MSM reporting is purposely skewed to harm Trump and I think a lot of Americans think that way too.  The problem here is that now even if the MSM had something legitimate, true, and harmful to report on Trump, they have damaged their credibility to the point where everything is in doubt.  So, he now gets the benefit of that doubt.

Benefit of *what* doubt? By chance are you confusing this thread with the impeachment thread? There’s no point of fact that is contested with regards to the Gallagher case or the other war crimes files. Trump doesn’t deny any actions attributed to him here. On the contrary he positively revels in them. He DID interfere in navy proceedings regarding  Gallagher’s career status. He DID reverse his demotion. He DID order that he would keep his trident. This is all public record. He DID pardon a convicted war criminal- a man convicted of murder. He DID order that another murder trial not go forward.

There’s no doubt for him to get the benefit of. It’s not in question that he *can* do these things. Yes, the president of the United States has the legal power to stop a war crimes trial and to pardon a convicted war criminal. Yes, the president has the power to reach as deeply into the internal workings of military discipline, conduct, and performance as he feels and to meddle to his heart’s content.

Not a single person here contests that. The line is drawn between those that are specifically ok with him doing it and are willing to defend it (you and a scant few others seem on that side, though you seem reluctant to clarify what if any lines you aren’t comfortable seeing crossed), and those of us who are not ok with the legal, but unethical and immoral actions. These are not impeachment fodder, but they are the mark of an unprincipled and self-interested politician who will use the military for whatever crass ends catch his fancy between tweets. He forces the profession of arms to dishonor itself.
+600 « Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 18:21:03 by Brihard »
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Baz

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #107 on: December 02, 2019, 18:13:13 »
Brihard: agreed.

But I fear that a segment of society is so convinced that he is the only one that can "drain the swamp" and therefore he can do no wrong... anyone who opposes him is part of the "deep state," including members of his own military who have a long record of honorable service.
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