Author Topic: Brookfield, CDS grievance, DCBA - How do I grieve now that I'm out?  (Read 706 times)

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Offline Milhouser911

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Good day gentlemen. 

I recently submitted a request for clarification on a BGRS policy that states that in order to qualify for dual residency allowance, your house has to be listed at or below the appraised value. 

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/relocation-directive/clarification-bulletin/2010-4-principal-residence-marketed.html

This policy was issued in 2010, and grieved in 2012.  In 2013, the CDS's office issued the below response.

https://www.canada.ca/en/military-grievances-external-review/services/case-summaries/case-2011-131.html

The response was that this policy was issued without treasury board approval, and should be immediately removed from circulation, and that BGRS should go back and find everyone that was denied this benefit because of it and pay them.

I pointed out that the policy was still being used in 2017, and again in August when I released and was putting together my IPR claim and plan.  Yesterday I received a response, by the CDBA MWO:

"ALCON,

Apologies for the delay in our response.

It has been confirmed that Clarification Bulletin 4 is still in effect and was approved by Treasury Board, who are the approving authority for the CFIRPD dated 19 April 2018.  The statement “The principal residence listing price does not exceed the appraised value established in accordance with article 8.2.05 of the CFIRP” replaces the highlighted text below.

Section 1.4 – Definitions of the CFIRPD dated 19 April 2018 provides the following definition of “Actively Marketed”:

Principal residence – actively marketed    A principal residence will be considered actively marketed for sale when:
• The principal residence is continuously for sale except for brief interruptions (e.g. to change brokers or listings) through a licensed real estate agent (realtor);
• The principal residence listing price is consistent with the appraisal paid by the CFIRP and the conditions of the market;
• The CF members are acting in good faith to dispose of the residence; and
• No reasonable offers have been refused. Résidence principale – Démarches de mise en vente active
"

I have...well, quite a few reservations about this response. 

For starters, the CDS response to the grievance was an order to remove this policy "amendment bulletin" from circulation, which was never done.  Instruction was also given to stop using "bulletins" to make changes, and instead amend the actual policy documents, which was never done.  The CFIRP was updated in 2018, and this policy amendment was not included.  The response claims that this bulletin was approved by the treasury board, but I believe that would require it to be re-issued in its approved form, and not simply approved while in use, after the fact.  The wording of "Still in effect" bothers me, because it was ordered to be removed from use, which would theoretically require its re-issue to be effective.

In addition, here is the logical argument against this policy:  Since the TB is paying out up to $30k losses on homes, this GUARANTEES that the TB will be paying more money for every single posting where houses aren't moving quickly.  They'll pay both TDRA, and they'll pay for the loss against this house, which is absolutely guaranteed in todays housing market since you can't list above the appraised value.  In addition, the appraisal frequently comes with a marketing strategy - It's a goal price for the sale.  You can't leave yourself any room to haggle and save the TB some money.

Finally, when I listed my home, I was using the most current available information.  I listed above the appraised value, and it's been on the market for almost 2 months.  Now I can't claim TDRA for those two months.  I did my research, requested clarification on this topic before the house ever hit the market, and followed the policy and information available to me. 

How do I grieve this situation as a released member?

Thanks for reading,

Scott

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Brookfield, CDS grievance, DCBA - How do I grieve now that I'm out?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2019, 17:39:11 »
Short answer is that you cannot grieve once you are released. IIRC, QR&O 8.07 is the reference (just google CAF grievances- the answer pops right up).

Online garb811

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Re: Brookfield, CDS grievance, DCBA - How do I grieve now that I'm out?
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2019, 17:53:34 »
...
In addition, here is the logical argument against this policy:  Since the TB is paying out up to $30k losses on homes, this GUARANTEES that the TB will be paying more money for every single posting where houses aren't moving quickly.  They'll pay both TDRA, and they'll pay for the loss against this house, which is absolutely guaranteed in todays housing market since you can't list above the appraised value.  In addition, the appraisal frequently comes with a marketing strategy - It's a goal price for the sale.  You can't leave yourself any room to haggle and save the TB some money.
...
How do you figure that? The fallacy in your statement is that you are assuming that the payout is based off of the "loss" being incurred from the difference of the appraised value of the house compared to what you are able to sell it for.  This isn't what the loss is calculated off of, it is the difference between the price that you paid for the house compared to the price you are able to sell it for.
Quote
8.2.13 Home Equity Assistance (HEA)
A member to whom this Directive applies is entitled to be reimbursed for any financial loss incurred in relation to the sale of their principal residence if:

- the closing date for the sale is on or after 19 April 2018; and
- the sale price is less than the purchase price paid by the member.
The reimbursable amount is equivalent to the difference between the original purchase price and the sale price minus any reduction in the sale price that is identified in the agreement of purchase of sale and attributable to anything in the principal residence that required repair or replacement.
All kinds of people sell below the "appraised" value and still turn a profit.

Offline Milhouser911

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Re: Brookfield, CDS grievance, DCBA - How do I grieve now that I'm out?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2019, 19:22:27 »
How do you figure that? The fallacy in your statement is that you are assuming that the payout is based off of the "loss" being incurred from the difference of the appraised value of the house compared to what you are able to sell it for.  This isn't what the loss is calculated off of, it is the difference between the price that you paid for the house compared to the price you are able to sell it for. All kinds of people sell below the "appraised" value and still turn a profit.

You're right, I'm assuming shorter postings.  In my case, when I purchased 2 years ago the appraised value was 360, now the appraised value is 346, just a function of the market as it stands.  House is in substantially better shape than it was at the time of purchase.  Realtor recommended I list for 370.  I have no problem "actively" marketing, and trying to turn a profit, as long as one isn't stubborn and expecting TDRA for a year without a price movement.

I don't think anyone in a posting under about 5 years is going to be able to get what the house was appraised for at purchase.

Offline CountDC

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Re: Brookfield, CDS grievance, DCBA - How do I grieve now that I'm out?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2019, 13:02:33 »
You're right, I'm assuming shorter postings.  In my case, when I purchased 2 years ago the appraised value was 360, now the appraised value is 346, just a function of the market as it stands.  House is in substantially better shape than it was at the time of purchase.  Realtor recommended I list for 370.  I have no problem "actively" marketing, and trying to turn a profit, as long as one isn't stubborn and expecting TDRA for a year without a price movement.

I don't think anyone in a posting under about 5 years is going to be able to get what the house was appraised for at purchase.

I am thinking most will be able to get what they paid which is what matters.  Profits is a nice bonus.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Brookfield, CDS grievance, DCBA - How do I grieve now that I'm out?
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2019, 13:34:06 »
Note that the CDS has no authority to amend CBIs or CFIRP.  He lacks requisite authority to direct any changes to those instruments.  Any such change is clearly, per the NDA, under the authority of the Treasury Board.

I suspect there exists a delegation from the TB ministers to the Secretary of TB or the CHRO per FAA 6(4) and 6(4.1) that permits one of those two individuals to issue direction such as the Clarification Bulletin in question.


Quote
12(3) The Treasury Board may make regulations

(a) prescribing the rates and conditions of issue of pay of military judges, the Director of Military Prosecutions and the Director of Defence Counsel Services;

(b) prescribing the forfeitures and deductions to which the pay and allowances of officers and non-commissioned members are subject; and

(c) providing for any matter concerning the pay, allowances and reimbursement of expenses of officers and non-commissioned members for which the Treasury Board considers regulations are necessary or desirable to carry out the purposes or provisions of this Act.
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