Author Topic: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty  (Read 6879 times)

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Offline Privateer

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HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« on: January 31, 2020, 11:51:59 »
Per Times Colonist:

link: https://www.vancourier.com/2.2065/change-in-command-for-hmcs-calgary-another-officer-disabled-ship-s-smoke-detector-1.24065570

Quote
Change in command for HMCS Calgary; another officer disabled ship’s smoke detector

 HMCS Calgary has undergone a change in command after evaluation of the ship’s performance during sea-readiness trials.

Cmdr. Alex Barlow took over HMCS Calgary last week, replacing Cmdr. Jonathan Kouwenberg, said Army Lt. Chelsea Dubeau, public affairs officer for Canadian Maritime Forces Pacific.

Dubeau said senior officers decided a change in the ship’s leadership was necessary to reach performance levels required during overseas deployment.

 HMCS Calgary’s second-in-command was also relieved of duty after disabling a smoke detector in the wardroom, smoking tobacco and encouraging assembled subordinates to do likewise while the ship was in San Diego. The officer was found guilty of three counts of behaviour contrary to good order and discipline and fined $3,000.

HMCS Calgary, one of five frigates based in Esquimalt with Maritime Forces Pacific, is being prepared for deployment to the Asia-Pacific region this spring.

Canadian Navy officials have said these overseas deployments, lasting about six month each, are meant to demonstrate and affirm Canada’s presence in the Pacific and its ongoing commitment to its allies.

During exercises such as the ongoing Operation Projection, Canadian Navy ships work with their counterparts from other Pacific nations, including Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, Australia and the U.S.

In the past, deployments have included goodwill visits to foreign ports, emergency disaster assistance and enforcing the United Nations embargo of North Korea.

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2020, 12:10:46 »
Career firing, career firing, career STOPS! 

Quote
HMCS Calgary, one of five frigates based in Esquimalt with Maritime Forces Pacific, is being prepared for deployment to the Asia-Pacific region this spring.

CAL did a deployment in fall 2018 (PROJECTION) with Asterix, is that a normal CPF ops tempo to be going back again so soon?
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Offline CloudCover

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2020, 13:51:06 »
Cmdr is a Flag Officer, not a Senior Officer. Is the rank actually Cdr (Commander)?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 13:54:23 by CloudCover »
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2020, 14:12:56 »
Cmdr is a Flag Officer, not a Senior Officer. Is the rank actually Cdr (Commander)?

Appears to be a locally generated abbreviation for Commander by the newspaper.
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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2020, 14:27:52 »
Cmdr is a Flag Officer, not a Senior Officer. Is the rank actually Cdr (Commander)?

Commodore is actually abbreviated Cmdre.

https://www.canada.ca/en/services/defence/caf/military-identity-system/navy-ranks.html#step1
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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2020, 14:52:30 »
The co of a frigate is a commander. What rank is the xo ? Either a lt commander or a commander .

Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2020, 15:34:59 »
The co of a frigate is a commander. What rank is the xo ? Either a lt commander or a commander .

Usually a LCdr.

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2020, 16:13:52 »
Usually a LCdr.

I know on some RN ships the CO is a Captain. Its like they need jobs for all their Captains as their Navy isn't all that big.

Offline Furniture

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2020, 16:27:00 »
Career firing, career firing, career STOPS! 

CAL did a deployment in fall 2018 (PROJECTION) with Asterix, is that a normal CPF ops tempo to be going back again so soon?

I think she's back from a recent refit, so likely the majority of the crew swapped out since the last deployment. Though, based on my time out on the West coast it's safe to say much of the crew is likely recently back from some other mission in the last couple of years.

Offline Dimsum

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2020, 16:54:55 »
I know on some RN ships the CO is a Captain. Its like they need jobs for all their Captains as their Navy isn't all that big.

It depends on what type of ship it is. 

Aircraft carrier?  CO is likely a Capt. 
Destroyer?  Usually a Cdr. 
Patrol boat?  Probably LCdr or maybe even Lt. 

The French names for the ranks from LCdr to Capt even "specify" the type of ship they commanded - LCdr is "Capitaine de corvette" (Corvette Captain), Cdr is "Capitaine de frégate" (Frigate Captain), and Capt is "Capitaine de vaisseau" (Ship [of the line] Captain).
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 16:58:33 by Dimsum »
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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2020, 16:58:46 »
I think she's back from a recent refit, so likely the majority of the crew swapped out since the last deployment. Though, based on my time out on the West coast it's safe to say much of the crew is likely recently back from some other mission in the last couple of years.

Ahh, the infamous "jetty jumpers" I've heard about?
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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2020, 17:23:22 »
The co of a frigate is a commander. What rank is the xo ? Either a lt commander or a commander .

XOs are LCdrs. The ranks drop for the MCDVs and other small non combatants, but believe it'll be the same for the AOPs and JSS when they come online. Usually all the HODs are Lt(N)s, but they've started allowing some of them to get promoted to LCdr while on board because of the backlog.

The now retired 280s used to have Capt(N) (ie four ringers) as COs, usually as a second tour, but they were set up to be task group commanders with the Commodore and staff embarked. The 280s dropped down to Cdrs for COs about 15 years ago because of the backlog of folks waiting for CO tours, but still embarked the Cmdre and staff right up until retirement. Some of the frigates are set up with extra bunks to accommodate the Cmdre and gaggle of top weight, but changes nothing for the CO's rank.

Ships have been doing quick cycles for a while now; has been pretty common for a ship to come back, do a crew swap/workups, and relieve the same ship that relieved them. Fortunately the CSCs will be delivered any day now, so this kind of high op tempo won't be a big deal in making sure they last.  ::)  :whistle:

Offline Fred Herriot

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2020, 07:36:38 »
Reading that article just made me shake my head.  How STUPID can people be?!  You don't go around flagrantly violating rules of THAT nature like that, then expect the rest of the wardroom to go in line!

Idiots...!  :brickwall:
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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2020, 10:37:33 »
Reading that article just made me shake my head.  How STUPID can people be?!  You don't go around flagrantly violating rules of THAT nature like that, then expect the rest of the wardroom to go in line!

Idiots...!  :brickwall:

Idiot- singular. Only the XO broke the rules, and clearly, he was reported by members of the Wardroom.

That the CO was relieved (if I understand things correctly) had nothing to do with the Wardoom incident.

Offline gryphonv

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2020, 16:58:40 »
I curious how this went down. I experienced a ship having it's Cox'n replaced during workups, but never a CO or XO, or in this case both.

I know with the Cox'n it was a huge deal with the Commodore showing up along with Fleet Cox'n while in port. It had potential to spoil our crew also because the Cox'n at the time was very popular with the  NCMs and NCOs.

I'd imagine something like this would of needed as big or even bigger a response.

Also would this be a career ender for a CO? I can see an XO bouncing back from this after a few years, not sure if the CO would get another chance at command.

Then again I've seen CO's mess up worse then this and get a promotion posting.

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2020, 19:01:03 »
I think competition is so tight for the CO tours it'd be tough to come back from getting fired, charged and convicted as an XO. Guessing for both it at least slow tracks any further career progression and bump them out of consideration for high profile jobs, but who knows?

Have seen HODs/CHODs relieved and that's not pretty either; usually means the senior Cdr/CPO1 in the branch on that coast is paying them a visit and someone else is getting a very short notice message.

The trades are all pretty small so it's the kind of thing that tends to stick to someone for a long time, and unless they have a fairy godfather in the branch they are pretty much hooped. In one case it was the HOD being blamed for the Cmd team being topweight ballast, so didn't actually make a difference, but otherwise they are on the slow train to anonymous postings (which really isn't the worst thing if you want a good work/life balance anyway). Sometimes people are competent at some aspects of their job and not others, so usually can find useful roles for them in the posting matrix, but that kind of stink tends to linger for a long long time.

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2020, 23:03:19 »
I curious how this went down. I experienced a ship having it's Cox'n replaced during workups, but never a CO or XO, or in this case both.

I know with the Cox'n it was a huge deal with the Commodore showing up along with Fleet Cox'n while in port. It had potential to spoil our crew also because the Cox'n at the time was very popular with the  NCMs and NCOs.

I'd imagine something like this would of needed as big or even bigger a response.

Also would this be a career ender for a CO? I can see an XO bouncing back from this after a few years, not sure if the CO would get another chance at command.

Then again I've seen CO's mess up worse then this and get a promotion posting.

Why even bother?  If you are at the 25 mark or close to it, just pull pin and go do something else and leave the toxicity and baggage behind.

That is what I would do.  I would certainly not want to remain in the profession.  Sometimes you just need to know when to say you've had a good run and shut it down.

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2020, 01:55:28 »
Why even bother?  If you are at the 25 mark or close to it, just pull pin and go do something else and leave the toxicity and baggage behind.

That is what I would do.  I would certainly not want to remain in the profession.  Sometimes you just need to know when to say you've had a good run and shut it down.

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Offline FSTO

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2020, 17:41:08 »
Appears to be a locally generated abbreviation for Commander by the newspaper.

All the Canadian media use the abbreviation Cmdr for Commander. I have no idea why they don't use the abbreviation we use in the CAF.

Offline stoker dave

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2020, 17:56:07 »
As someone who (25 years ago) was a Canadian Naval officer and has worked in industry since, please let me add my two cents.

This is all about "procedural compliance".  You don't get to choose which procedures you follow and which you don't.  Your boss doesn't get to, the XO doesn't get to, the CO doesn't get to.   If you are not complying with documented procedures, you can and should expect repercussions. (The ONLY exception is for emergencies.)

My experience suggests that this culture does not exist in DND.  It doesn't matter if the procedures relate to safety, operations or how to treat each other (see Op Honour), failure to follow procedures has consequences.

Where I currently work (construction) infractions of documented procedures are taken very seriously.  Failure to follow documented procedure can and will get you removed from site and possibly fired. 

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2020, 18:10:14 »
<anal style guide derail>
All the Canadian media use the abbreviation Cmdr for Commander. I have no idea why they don't use the abbreviation we use in the CAF.
Likely The Canadian Press style guide says so.  Mind you, if we follow the letter of the GoC style guide, DND/CF writers should use "Cdr" and in my non-military government job, I should be writing "Cmdr."
</anal style guide derail>
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2020, 18:40:44 »
All the Canadian media use the abbreviation Cmdr for Commander. I have no idea why they don't use the abbreviation we use in the CAF.

It is because they use the nationally agreed upon reference put out by Dundurn Press in co-operation with Government Services Canada: "The Canadian Style, A Guide to Writing and Editing". Section 1.07 provides the abbreviations for ranks, and is split into two columns: DND and non-DND abbreviations.

The non-DND abreviation for Commander is Cmdr. For Commodore, no abbreviation is allowed for non-DND.

Offline Colin P

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2020, 19:04:14 »
I wonder if the CO is being pilloried to avoid exposing systemic issues in manning and training?

Offline dapaterson

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Re: HMCS Calgary CO & XO relieved of duty
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2020, 19:08:55 »
I wonder if the CO is being pilloried to avoid exposing systemic issues in manning and training?

That would never happen.

What ever happened to Paul Morneault, anyways?
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