Author Topic: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)  (Read 7443 times)

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Offline CloudCover

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RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« on: August 16, 2020, 18:40:08 »
We do not have a thread of RCN weapons systems that is recent, so thought I would start a new one.

I saw today the attached images in a twitter thread from HMCS Winnipeg. There is a video of Hammerhead UTV taking a pounding from 3 guns at close range  (Bofors, Phalanx and the new NWRS).

So it sounds like Winnipeg is fitted with either 2 or 4 NRWS which I gather can be operated remotely from the OPs room or at the mount itself. The barrel looks like it had some refurb work done as well.
Also, it sounds like the installation points are on bridge wings and quarterdeck, Port and Starboard.

I’ve tried to post the twitter link, but this web server blocks creation of the page with the link.  Maybe some else can try?

Edit: I think this will work- https://twitter.com/HMCSWinnipeg/status/1295048978073939968?s=20
« Last Edit: August 16, 2020, 19:32:05 by CloudCover »
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Offline Colin P

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2020, 20:04:31 »
Interesting just how old the 3"50 were. The initial gun was early 1900 with a dual purpose gun being mounted in 1915. the Mk22 became the premier AA gun of the USN during late WWII supplementing and then replacing the 40mm Bofors. We used the Mk 33 and I don't know when the last one went out of service. But it is likley the longest lived naval gun design in the 20th century.

Offline NavyShooter

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2020, 20:12:32 »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUnA7OOOClU

A little video of a 57mm firing.
Insert disclaimer statement here....

:panzer:

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2020, 23:02:11 »
Interesting just how old the 3"50 were. The initial gun was early 1900 with a dual purpose gun being mounted in 1915. the Mk22 became the premier AA gun of the USN during late WWII supplementing and then replacing the 40mm Bofors. We used the Mk 33 and I don't know when the last one went out of service. But it is likley the longest lived naval gun design in the 20th century.

I loved watching the 3’50” shoot. I remember one full rate shoot during Gulf War 1 against a home built surface target. It completely shredded the target. A well oiled gun crew (with ammo numbers) was a thing of beauty.

Offline LoboCanada

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2020, 08:49:53 »
Speaking of which, I know the RN uses M134s where we use C6s or HMG. Why not use them?

The cost of capital ships is high enough to dedicate a little $ for something that'll do well for something close-up.

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2020, 10:12:07 »
There's a video in one of the facebook groups I'm a member of (HMCS  GATINEAU) that shows a 3"50 firing with the guns crew passing shells up and loading - very smooth.  It's an amazing piece of personnel integration.
Insert disclaimer statement here....

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Offline EnchantedEng

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2020, 14:45:51 »
According to the Wikipedia article below (Please don't roll your eyes), the prior to entering Canadian Service, the Victoria Class submarines were "capable of using UGM-84 Sub-Harpoon missiles". I have 2 questions regarding this information.

1. Is that confirmed information?
2. Why was that capability scrapped?
(I think it was the change from Mk 24 torpedoes to MK 48 that required the removal of Harpoon missile launching capability, I would be glad to have more concrete information, if available.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upholder/Victoria-class_submarine
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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2020, 18:28:40 »
They were "Canadianized" when we bought them.  They had been equipped for British Torps (Spearfish?) plus the UGM-84 Harpoon.  When the brit fire control system was removed and the system for our existing stocks of Mk.48 ADCAPs were installed, the ability to launch the Harpoon went with it. 
Insert disclaimer statement here....

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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2020, 19:35:32 »
Plus, we have never owned sub-harpoon, so would have had to acquire that.

It is not a great capability for a SSK. It tends to mark their datum really, really well.

Offline ChosenBosn

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2020, 01:04:49 »
We do not have a thread of RCN weapons systems that is recent, so thought I would start a new one.

I saw today the attached images in a twitter thread from HMCS Winnipeg. There is a video of Hammerhead UTV taking a pounding from 3 guns at close range  (Bofors, Phalanx and the new NWRS).

So it sounds like Winnipeg is fitted with either 2 or 4 NRWS which I gather can be operated remotely from the OPs room or at the mount itself. The barrel looks like it had some refurb work done as well.
Also, it sounds like the installation points are on bridge wings and quarterdeck, Port and Starboard.

I’ve tried to post the twitter link, but this web server blocks creation of the page with the link.  Maybe some else can try?

Edit: I think this will work- https://twitter.com/HMCSWinnipeg/status/1295048978073939968?s=20
There are x4 NRWS in the GP 1, 2, 5, and 6 positions. Its operated down in laundry flats, there are screens on the bridge and in Ops to view what they're looking at though. It's a huge improvement over manually firing the .50's forsure.

Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk


Offline Colin P

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2020, 12:55:25 »
Make me king for the day and I would do the following:

Have the AOP's fitted with the 57mm Mk 3 and the existing 25mm moved to another location, along with an improved FCS

Prep the Astreix to receive either the 25mm and/or .50cal NRWS and purchase the systems. Install as required.

Fit the same 25mm NRWS to the Kingston class and perhaps one of the .50cal NRWS. Ensure there is a FCS to support it

Modify the Orcas to accept the .50cal NRWS, purchase the systems and basic FCS to support it. Equip a couple of them mainly to allow training and as operational needs arise.

Purchase a number of small systems like the French Mistral on a Simbad mount and prep areas on the AOPs and Astreix for them. Conduct trials and training to see how such systems can be integrated into the current ship defenses.

The above gives you a lot of commonality throughout the fleet, so a reservist training on a Orca with the NRWS, can now go to the AOPs or Kingstons and be familiar with the systems. Same goes for people moving to and from the Halifax's and AOP's.

Offline CloudCover

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2020, 18:00:47 »
Speaking of which, I know the RN uses M134s where we use C6s or HMG. Why not use them?

The cost of capital ships is high enough to dedicate a little $ for something that'll do well for something close-up.
View from HMS Northumberland (MV Asterix ahead), and in second shot from HMS Medway (very rough comparison mission to MCDV)  showing M 134 Minigun.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 01:36:59 by CloudCover »
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Offline CloudCover

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2020, 18:30:22 »
This is a DSM 30MK II ( rumoured to be selected for CSC mounted on sponsons or small inset deck astride both sides of the hangar). Attached to the mount is a tested and proven 5 pack Martlett Missile. The system was installed and tested in 2019 by the RN on-board HMS Sutherland, and it works very effectively out to 6KM.  The missile is the Thales LMM.

This would be a very useful combination for the CSC and to be honest, if there was room and if they cane integrated to existing, and very welcome addition to the CPF even in a removable “ bolt on” configuration for certain missions or deployments. It might even be a more appropriate bolt-on system for the MCDV when they are on Africa or Caribbean stations. 

Cons:
1. it’s new missile system in a role for which the RCN has a need but no doctrine and certainly no experience. 
2. It’s yet another type of gun ammunition - requires storage and handling training and space.
3. It’s yet another missile system - requires storage, handling and space and specialized trading to maintain and use;
4. Integration of a low cost but highly lethal system requires training considerations for CO, Ops room and others in the kill chain.
5. Little is known about cold weather testing of the system- may not be suitable for Arctic or colder climate use.

Pro’s:

1. Ships defensive armament substantially increased
2. Weapons bring harder punch.
3. CIWS focussed on AD and not hosing down raider craft
4. Bolt on means only a few systems need be acquired and installed as needed
5. May assist in littoral  ( not sure due to limited range of 6KM)
6. System can be uplifted to CSC.
7. Multi platform use and could even be truck mounted if power supply available. (RCN or RCA asset?)

There are other similar systems available but as stated above I believe the DSM 30 is identified as a potential CSC weapon.

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Offline Colin P

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2020, 20:35:06 »
That would certainly up the potency of the Kingstons and AOP's. Instead of constantly returning money to TB, have a Weapons research and development fund to purchase/lease these systems for trials.

Offline Swampbuggy

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2020, 15:34:01 »
There's so much more flexibility with the 30mm. Higher firing rate, ability to store more ammo in the mount, significant upgrade in hitting power (the USN did a brief film on the difference in damage dealt between a 25 and 30mm weapons system, can't find it at the moment) and perhaps most importantly, there is an increase in max elevation to 75 degrees. Much better coverage for air threats, including drones.

Offline Underway

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2020, 08:43:37 »
Speaking of which, I know the RN uses M134s where we use C6s or HMG. Why not use them?

The cost of capital ships is high enough to dedicate a little $ for something that'll do well for something close-up.

UK ships usually are only fitted with 2xM134's, amidships and have 4x 50cal mounts on the quarters and bows. The RCN has 4x 50 cal mounts on the quarters and bows.  With the increased accuracy and stabilization of the NRWS there is literally no need for M134's.  M134's are to make up for the inaccuracy of manually aiming at a fast moving boat with the expediency of rate of fire increases.  NRWS have no problems hitting such targets, thus increasing the PKill by a huge margin. Therefore no need to have any gatlings.

Offline Colin P

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2020, 15:26:45 »
Going back to historical

Found some of the parts for our 12pdr outside the cadet hall, I believe it was off one of the escorts making up the Bedwell bay ghost fleet

Restoring and preserving the breech, then I start on the elevation gears. Plan is to have some fake plates made up with playground wheels for kids to turn, a simplified kid proof aiming system and a fake breech. The real stuff will be put on for special occasions and then removed.

dang won't let me attach pictures


Offline FSTO

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2020, 06:10:23 »
Going back to historical

Found some of the parts for our 12pdr outside the cadet hall, I believe it was off one of the escorts making up the Bedwell bay ghost fleet

Restoring and preserving the breech, then I start on the elevation gears. Plan is to have some fake plates made up with playground wheels for kids to turn, a simplified kid proof aiming system and a fake breech. The real stuff will be put on for special occasions and then removed.

dang won't let me attach pictures

On the drill deck in HMCS UNICORN (NRD Saskatoon) there is a WWII High Angle 4 inch deck gun (I think it came from HMCS Henry). Its fully functional (they actually fired a blank from it one day and damn near blew the roof off).


Offline Colin P

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2020, 11:02:19 »
Amazing how far a blank in a 105mm howitzer will fire a oil soaked roll of toilet paper or so I heard  8)

Offline CloudCover

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2020, 15:14:39 »
Besides being an excellent recruiting and PA video, this little number released by the RCN this morning shoes some excellent footage of weapons current in use by RCN + RCAF in wartime domain.

https://twitter.com/RoyalCanNavy/status/1300852466607677440?s=20
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2020, 16:37:33 »
Am I the only one who finds it amazingly ironic that the only clearly identifiable woman seen in the 2 minutes video (other than the waving officer on the bridge wing in the last second) is actually shown in the sailmaker's shop using a sewing machine on some material.

The military keeps being it's own worse enemy where equality is concerned.

 :facepalm:

Offline CloudCover

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2020, 21:05:46 »
Which is a real shame because the XO of one of those ships is female.
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Offline Weinie

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2020, 21:41:13 »
Am I the only one who finds it amazingly ironic that the only clearly identifiable woman seen in the 2 minutes video (other than the waving officer on the bridge wing in the last second) is actually shown in the sailmaker's shop using a sewing machine on some material.

The military keeps being it's own worse enemy where equality is concerned.

 :facepalm:

OGBD....PM coming
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 22:01:23 by Weinie »
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Offline CloudCover

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2020, 23:37:19 »
Watched it a few more times. There’s 4 scenes including Amber, but you have to really look closely.
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Offline FSTO

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Re: RCN Weapons System (historical, current, planned)
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2020, 02:43:28 »
Watched it a few more times. There’s 4 scenes including Amber, but you have to really look closely.

Just saw a new CAF recruiting advert. Women and darker melanin skin tones were very prevalent, although there was one visual of the oppressor so not a 100% win!  ;D