Author Topic: Veterans License Plates  (Read 59069 times)

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Offline 3rd Horseman

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2005, 14:34:16 »
I was in theatre in Apr 95 and departed when the after the war ended 31 Oct.   
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Offline Infanteer

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2005, 15:41:28 »
Inf,

      Operative word here is "may have". So are you holding the position that a WW2 vet who never served overseas has more combat than a UN or NATO soldier who has fired his weapon in anger and been fired at by a hostile enemy? And one further how about the in theatre WW2 vet that never saw the enemy?

Quit using "may have" and "circumstance" as clauses to back out of your claims.  Just as we are not talking about a Canadian who never deployed in the '90s, we ain't talking about some rear echelon conscript in WWII.

Guys in WWII that were in theater faced combat day-in and day-out, that hasn't been something experienced by our Army since Korea.
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2005, 15:44:54 »
"In theatre" is a big place.
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

"It is a damned heavy blow; but whining don't help."

Despair is a sin.

Offline Infanteer

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2005, 15:48:39 »
Okay - I guess there is always CommZone Z.   How about "a guy on the line".
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline 3rd Horseman

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2005, 16:05:02 »
Inf,

    Not attempting to back out of a claim never made a claim asked a question. So if I understand correct you are speaking of the line guys. That being understood The point is about who gets a vet plate, IMHO the soldiers who have fired there weapons in anger on a NATO or UN tour have the right to claim combat vet just like a line soldier in WW2 (given that that line soldier saw combat, contrary to what you think some line units did not see combat).

  So to get back on focus do the UN/NATO guys who served on the line deserve vet plates?
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Offline Acorn

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2005, 23:23:08 »
Okay - I guess there is always CommZone Z.   How about "a guy on the line".

I think the point is that "Veteran" doesn't require service under fire.

There's no distinction between someone who was shot at and someone who spent the whole time inside a secure camp - then or now.
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Offline Art Johnson

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #56 on: November 01, 2005, 12:47:14 »
Just a little story about the Veterans plate. A few weeks before the schools opened I made an illegal left turn at one of those 4:00pm to 6:00pm thingies. I thought the sign was only for when the schools were in session. How wrong I was, when I got to the bottom of the hill this big Policeman was standing in the middle of the road and waved me over as well as the chap behind me. When the Cop got back to me I had my license out and he took it and checked my plate. When he got back to me he said "I'm going to give you a break this time and charge you under the Municipal
Bylaw and it will cost you $18.75". "I could charge you under the Highway Traffic Act and it would have cost you $130.00 plus two demerit points."
That was a pretty good investment for $5.00.

Offline Michael Dorosh

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #57 on: November 01, 2005, 13:22:14 »
we ain't talking about some rear echelon conscript in WWII.

The vast majority of rear echelon troops in the Canadian Army (Overseas) in WW II were volunteers. In fact, I'm willing to bet 100 percent of them were volunteers.   The small numbers of conscripts sent to Europe in 1945 were mainly reinforcements for infantry units.

In an infantry battalion, about 300 out of 810-man full strength battalions were found in A and B Echelon; including sanitation men, cooks, orderlies, weapons techs, water duties, storesmen, etc. so about 35% of infantry battalions were "rear echelon" soldiers - when at full strength.   Most rifle companies operated at about half strength much of the time, so the percentage of "rear echelon" troops was much higher.   Depending of course on your definition of "rear echelon."

Line of Communication troops were present on the Continent in large numbers, and also the administrative tail in England was large (in Italy these functions were primarily performed by British troops).     A dentist who served in London for six months was still awarded the 1939-45 War Medal, the Defence Medal, the 1939-45 Star, and the Canadian Volunteer Service Medal with clasp - all without firing a single shot.  

Would he be "entitled" to a veteran's plate?   I think so.

Here's a list of just the Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps units to be formed and "deployed" in WW II.   Doesn't count the RCASC, RCEME, RCSigs, C Provost C, C Postal C, CDC, RCAMC, etc. units

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/organization/rcocorbat.htm

A partial listing of "rear echelon" units directly attached to First Canadian Army would include

Headquarters Units
 Headquarters, First Canadian Army
 1 Air Survey Corps
 1 Air Liason Group
 25 Armoured Delivery Regiment (The Elgin Regiment)
 1 Road Construction Company, RCE
 2 Road Construction Company, RCE
 2 Tunneling Company, RCE
 1 Mechanical Equipment Company, RCE
 1 Mechanical Equipment Park, RCE
 1 Field Survey Depot, RCE
 2 Field Survey Company, RCE
 3 Field Survey Company, RCE
   4 Field Survey Company, RCE
 30 Air Survey Liaison Section, RCE
Royal Canadian Corps of Signals
 Headquarters, First Canadian Army Signals
 3 Special Wireless Section (Type A)
 1 Special Wireless Section (Type B)
 2 Special Wireless Section (Type B)
 1 Relay Telephone Company
 1 Air Support Signal Unit
 3 Army Signal Park
Royal Canadian Army Service Corps
 Headquarters, RCASC First Canadian Army Troops
 Headquarters, First Canadian Army Transport Column, RCASC
 35 Army Troops Composite Company, RCASC
 36 Army Troops Composite Company, RCASC
 85 Bridging Company, RCASC
 86 Bridging Company, RCASC
 65 Tank Transporter Company, RCASC
 66 Tank Transporter Company, RCASC
 69 General Transport Company, RCASC
 82 Artillery Company, RCASC
 87 Artillery Company, RCASC
 121 Detail Issue Depot, RCASC
Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps
 6 General Hospital, RCAMC
 6 Casualty Clearing Station, RCAMC
 14 Field Hygiene Section, RCAMC
 17 Light Field Ambulance, RCAMC
 5, 6, 7 and 8 Field Surgical Units, RCAMC
 9, 10, and 11 Field Dressing Stations, RCAMC
 4,5,6 and 7 Field Transfusion Units, RCAMC
 2 Advance Deployed Medical Stores, RCAMC
Canadian Dental Corps
 2 Dental Company, CDC
 4 Dental Company, CDC
 5 Dental Company, CDC
 6 Dental Company, CDC
 9 Dental Company, CDC
Royal Canadian Electrical and Mechanical Engineers
 HQ, RCEME First Canadian Army Troops
 2 Recovery Company, RCEME
 First Canadian Army Troops Workshop, RCEME
Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps
 1 Ordnance Rail Head Company, RCOC
 2, 3 and 5 Salvage Units, RCOC
 4 Mobile Laundry and Bath Unit
Royal Canadian Army Pay Corps
 11 Field Cash Office
Canadian Provost Corps
 11 Provost Company
 1 Traffic Control HQ Section
 21 Traffic Control Company
 27 Traffic Control Company
Canadian Postal Corps
 First Canadian Army Postal Unit
Canadian Intelligence Corps
 16 and 17 Field Security Section
 2 Wireless Intelligence Section
 3 Wireless Intelligence Section
 1 Army Photographic Interpretation Section
 1 Interrogation HQ Section
Miscellaneous Units
 1 Chemical Warfare Laboratory
 First Canadian Army Meteorological Group
 First Canadian Army Reception Camp
 1 Field Punishment Camp
 1 Auxilliary Service Section

Thousands of soldiers (call them what they were) served in these units - and this in only First Canadian Army and doesn't count I Corps, II Corps, Canadian Military Headquarters (London) or any of the Canadian Reinforcement Units, all of whom had soldiers who qualified for the same "rack" of medals as any infantryman on the line.

And the majority of whom never fired, and many never saw, a shot fired in anger.   Are they veterans?
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Offline 3rd Horseman

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #58 on: November 01, 2005, 17:15:08 »
Absolutely!!! You are Right on all accounts. The question is does a UN/NATO soldier who has fired his weapon in anger or been fired at does he deserve the plate and the term "Veteran" I say yes! some on this thread have said no. :salute:
Sanctuary is as hard to find and as difficult to walk on as a razors edge

Offline geo

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #59 on: November 01, 2005, 17:29:31 »
Not all combat troops got deployed in 39... some joined in 44 and were in Europe for a couple of months of 45.... so quite similar to our current length of mission.... Veterans!

The clerks, storemen, truckers, tradesmen and instructors stationed in the UK were exposed to bombings for the German teror weapons... so quite similar to our current risk assessment.... Veterans!
« Last Edit: November 02, 2005, 12:49:35 by geo »
Chimo!

Offline UberCree

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #60 on: November 02, 2005, 10:51:19 »
The danger in making distinctions between who is and isn't a veteran is you end up catering to the Sven Robinson / lefty crew that believe Canada should only have 'Peacekeepers', and not combat soldiers.  If you believe that the only studs worthy of adulation are the boys that fought on Juno beach or other such bloody actions, then you are denying the fact that Canada sends our soldiers places because they are willing to kill and die for us, for our foreign policy and for others.  Everyone here would agree that to be an effective peacekeeper you have to be combat ready.  By saying there are no veterans other than those who served in WW2, Korea, etc. you are agreeing with Sven and gang and saying that we are not soldiers, that we are mere peacekeepers.  That we really aren't trained killers, we are policemen. 

If you don a uniform, you should do so with the full understanding that you could be ordered to go to your death or have to kill someone you do not know.  We don't carry around guns for looks after all.

Nothing wrong with honouring a guy that chose to serve his country by driving a truck around, or by cooking grub on a ship.  Little bit of pride never hurt anyone.

 

Offline Infanteer

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #61 on: November 02, 2005, 12:28:12 »
Would he be "entitled" to a veteran's plate?   I think so.

Yes he would.   My only quibble was the "I saw more fire in my UN Tour then a WWII vet".   When I took exception to that, the "get around" was offered in that some UN guy saw more "fire" than a WWII rear-ech type, which I just thought was a foolish statement - if you've served in the Balkans to any capacity, there is no need to compare your penis size with a 80-year old truck driver from 5th Armoured Division.

I agree with UberCree; a guy serving for 5 years in Europe during WWII, some kid who was a reservist and spent his summer in some Balkan ******* getting shelled every few days, or some clerk who for 20 years processed recruits getting prepared to fight the Soviets have all earned the claim to "Veteran" status.   I'll just wait until I'm 65 before I throw my plate on!   :)
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline geo

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #62 on: November 02, 2005, 12:55:53 »
Infanteer, concurr.... I'm waiting till I decide to hang it up and hit the 19th hole.

Cheers!
Chimo!

Offline Acorn

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #63 on: November 02, 2005, 22:09:05 »
That's how I'm playing it: I'll become a vet (get my plate) when I've taken my pension (I won't wait to 65 - might not make it there). I don't grudge anyone who chooses to do it now though - you've earned it.

Acorn
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Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #64 on: November 03, 2005, 00:06:10 »
That's how I'm playing it: I'll become a vet (get my plate) when I've taken my pension (I won't wait to 65 - might not make it there). I don't grudge anyone who chooses to do it now though - you've earned it.

Acorn

Ug, at 34 I am in the same boat as you, already collect a veterans pension, should think about getting the plate...

dileas

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Offline 3rd Horseman

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #65 on: November 03, 2005, 08:21:47 »
Infanteer,

     I agree that was my point just not the wait till 65 once your out you deserve. Your comment detailed below appears to respond to my post but you quated me wrong.
{ "I saw more fire in my UN Tour then a WWII vet".  (I never said that) When I took exception to that, the "get around" was offered in that some UN guy saw more "fire" than a WWII rear-ech type, which I just thought was a foolish statement}
Furthermore there was no get around about rear ech the point still stands it was about combat line guys not the ech the ech part was to try and define what you were getting at. The point still stands about a UN/NATO soldier may have seen more fire than a WW2 vet in the line(the use of may have was not to paint a broad brush I should change that to some did!
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Offline long haired civvy(well, not that long)

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #66 on: November 17, 2005, 01:06:00 »
I have been an Autoplan broker in BC for quite a few years now. Veterans plates have been available in BC since 2004, and the criteria for qualification is, in my opinion, laughable. One only has to have been MOC qualified(any trade), and be honourably discharged. Period. The application form can be viewed at www.icbc.com. I have to agree with Mark C (fellow 2422  and B Coy C Scot R Alumni), I too cringe seeing obese, 30 something former service battalion cooks tooling around in their 89 Hyundai Excels with Vet plates on.

Offline geo

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #67 on: November 17, 2005, 15:59:29 »
in asymetrical operations, medics, drivers, cooks, clerks and mechanics are in pretty much as deeply into it as anyone else... so what do you suggest is the prerequisite for being a veteran?... or not being a veteran?
Just cause the fella is overweight now does not mean he was that way while he served.... where do you draw the line...
does he have to pass inspection - short hair, still fit into his old service uniform? Letter from his RSM?...
Chimo!

Offline long haired civvy(well, not that long)

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #68 on: November 17, 2005, 18:37:07 »
My point is that the criteria for qualifying for a vet plate are far too broad, essentially anyone who ever wore a uniform qualifies. It would be interesting to hear the opinions of some real veterans on this subject. As for your negative, whatever. Mine was a statement of opinion, not a pronouncement of fact, your approval is neither sought nor particularly important.

Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #69 on: November 17, 2005, 21:39:03 »
It would be interesting to hear the opinions of some real veterans on this subject.

Please define what is a "Real Veteran", so those that are may throw in some input.

dileas

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Offline Gunner

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2005, 21:42:47 »
Quote
essentially anyone who ever wore a uniform qualifies.

And the problem with that would be?

Quote
It would be interesting to hear the opinions of some real veterans on this subject.

There are many on this board and hope they respond.  Personally, I hope to see many vet plates issued to current and former CF members.

Quote
Mine was a statement of opinion, not a pronouncement of fact, your approval is neither sought nor particularly important.

Tone, tone, tone.  You are new here, best establish yourself as a contributor before you are branded an internet troll.
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Offline long haired civvy(well, not that long)

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #71 on: November 17, 2005, 23:14:31 »
Well, if the 2 of you are satisfied with the Provincial Motor Vehicle Dept. definition of what a veteran is, who am I argue. Personally, I would be pretty sheepish pulling up to a stop light with veteran plates on , with my Cyprus tour under my belt, next to some old dude who fought through the Hitler Line, or Kapyong.

Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2005, 23:20:27 »
Then don't apply for one, wouldn't want you to be embarrased.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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Offline long haired civvy(well, not that long)

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2005, 23:24:02 »
23 years as a Cpl? Thats embarrasing my friend...............

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: Veterans License Plates
« Reply #74 on: November 17, 2005, 23:26:24 »
Well thats it, the experiments over.
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