Author Topic: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?  (Read 58582 times)

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Offline Michael Dorosh

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2004, 15:31:58 »
They're still butt ugly and look like costume jewelry though....
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Offline my72jeep

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2004, 16:28:18 »
Not having won any medals, I don't know what's up with the miniatures.   To me, they look ugly and seem like a waste of taxpayers' money.   I know that civilians may wear civvy medals/ribbons/awards & awards from previous military service with dress clothes--& I mean the life-size, real medals.   With Red sea rig, the short-sleeved shirt is devoid of all extras (dressings), save epaulettes.   I assume the thinking was that if officers were only dressing for their own wardroom, no one cared what gongs they had.   The nametag is absent from all orders of mess uniform (except the muddled-up mess service uniform) because messmates ought to match a name to your face.  
Full size medals on a mess kit now that looks ugly. and too many full size ones would be lost or gambled away in after mess dinner hijinks if we wore them.
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Offline recceguy

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2004, 16:43:05 »
IIRC you still should ask the CO's permission. Even though mess dress isn't an uniform (because you bought it), it still is a military order of dress (No 2s, I think). It could still reflect badly on the CF, if you wore it inappropriately.
Quote

True with Getting the CO's Permission, but if someone was going to go through the trouble of throwing mess dress on, after spending over a grand (Much like ours ugh), just to wear it to an unappropriate function, I highly doubt they would bother to inform their CO.


My question would be what is deemed inappropriate, I have wondered that in the past when it was proper to wear mess dress. Is it considered simmiar to a tux in that it is considered black tie attire?

Just wondering. Because I agree if you spend that much, you kinda want tomake more use of it.

tess


Mess Kit without the Unit collar dogs or recognized rank is nothing more than a military style tux. Without those accoutrements you can do what you will with it.
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Offline recceguy

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2004, 16:50:58 »
They're still butt ugly and look like costume jewelry though....

Michael,

We all know opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. From the amount of people who go out and purchase their own, I'd say there's enough that like them to keep the market very much alive. The same can be said for those that purchase Mess Kit, at their own expense. If they're satisfied, no need to deride them for there choice. It's normally the person who can't or won't spend the money, that come up with derisions to back their claim. That's my opinion anyway. I also have Mess Kit, miniatures and an *******. ;D
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Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2004, 20:35:07 »
They're still butt ugly and look like costume jewelry though....

whoa

They may look that way to you but I can assure you they don't feel that way, at least not to me.

Quote
Not having won any medals, I don't know what's up with the miniatures.  To me, they look ugly and seem like a waste of taxpayers' money.  I know that civilians may wear civvy medals/ribbons/awards & awards from previous military service with dress clothes--& I mean the life-size, real medals.  With Red sea rig, the short-sleeved shirt is devoid of all extras (dressings), save epaulettes.  I assume the thinking was that if officers were only dressing for their own wardroom, no one cared what gongs they had.  The nametag is absent from all orders of mess uniform (except the muddled-up mess service uniform) because messmates ought to match a name to your face. 


Aww man instructor you were on such a roll too.  Don't get ribbons and miniatures mixed up.  And tust me, to me, the ones I have earned don't look ugly at all....


tess

« Last Edit: December 21, 2004, 20:38:51 by the 48th regulator »
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Offline recceguy

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2004, 20:42:36 »
Tess,

Here, Here. We know what we did for them, that's all that matters. ;)
“I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind.”

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Offline my72jeep

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2004, 20:58:51 »
If I remember the rules Reg force officers have 6 months from commission date to get a mess kit. Reserve members it's optional.
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Offline Eowyn

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2004, 13:26:22 »
If I remember the rules Reg force officers have 6 months from commission date to get a mess kit. Reserve members it's optional.

Some how I doubt that.  My Adjt, a Reg F Capt, doesn't have Mess Kit.  I'm sure he's been in the Regs for more than 6 months.
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Offline Meridian

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2004, 13:29:00 »
When I was in the regs I was told it was optional as well.. most people wanted to get it anyway (used of course...)

Offline Sailing Instructor

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2004, 13:33:22 »
Aww man instructor you were on such a roll too.   Don't get ribbons and miniatures mixed up.   And tust me, to me, the ones I have earned don't look ugly at all....

No, don't worry, I'm not getting undress ribbons, medals, & miniature medals mixed up.   Yes, after I wrote that bit about Crown money being wasted on miniatures, I thought that they are probably a private purchase & it makes sense since you only have to wear them with a privately purchased uniform.   Still, I stand by my opinion that they look costumey (are they even metal?).   When did minis come about anyway?   I just don't get why it's important to have two versions of the same thing--undress ribbons I can see the point of, they are slightly less 'in the way' for everyday wear.   

Sorry, I didn't mean one 'wins' medals in the competition sense of the word.   I should have said 'awarded.'   Just a question though: should I be awarded a medal, am I obliged to buy the miniatures for mess dress?   Or can one just leave their jacket blank (or will this result in as much of a penalty at mess dinners as wearing the real medals)?

As for the 6 month from commission time to get mess dress, it is written in dress instructions.   But there may have been a CANFORGEN saying otherwise since that was written.   

Offline Carcharodon Carcharias

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2004, 14:00:31 »
Not having won any medals, I don't know what's up with the miniatures.   To me, they look ugly and seem like a waste of taxpayers' money.  

Hey SI:

As per X Royal's post on page 2, minature medals in the CF are purchased privately, and are worn on mess kit (which you have the privillage to wear from the rank of Sergeant on up), which is also private purchase.

Awards and decorations are earned not only from time in rank, but for recognition of operational/active service, and there is nothing 'ugly' or a 'waste of tax payers money' about that.

Its a custom and tradition which has been around for a very long time, and after serving almost 29 years in two different armies, this is the first time I have ever heard such foolishness of any medals benig 'ugly' or a 'waste of money' coming from the mouth of a serving CF member, or any serving member from any military force.

I just have two medals, and no matter what the size, or what they are for, both myself and my family are proud of them.

Australian medals come with a minature, and mess kit is issued from Sergeant on up. No one here (that I know) thinks either are a waste of money.

Below is a pic of myself and the 'rebel woman' I live with taken at a 'mixed' dining in night in our Mess. Yes I have my CF minatures on my Aussie issue Mess Kit, as I am proud of my service to Canada, even though I live in another country, serving in another Army.

Shaking head,

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« Last Edit: December 22, 2004, 20:58:38 by Wesley H. Allen, CD »
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Offline Michael Dorosh

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2004, 14:13:29 »
I reiterate that the miniature medals look goofy; I certainly wasn't passing judgement of the full size ones.  Perhaps a full rack of medals in miniature look okay; anything fewer than 4 look like something MIchael Jackson would wear to a pajama party.
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Offline Sailing Instructor

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2004, 15:39:21 »
Having read up on Ch4 of dress instructions, miniatures seem to be for evening dress (even civilian white & black tie) & medals are for daytime dress.  I think this may stem from the 19th century ideal that evening dress is to be uncluttered (which is why it is black & white, etc.). 

Still, I'd rather have medals cluttering up my unform than miniatures.  I stand by the statement that miniatures are ugly.  Thankfully the wear of awards is optional.

Offline OLD F of S

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2004, 16:46:01 »
          Sailing Instructor, I have attended formal balls at overseas locations most nations wear
miniture medals, I can tell you for sure at these balls if I didn't wear them the RSM would have had mine.


                       Regards OLD F of S

Offline Carcharodon Carcharias

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2004, 18:11:37 »
  Thankfully the wear of awards is optional.

Speaking of minatures with mess kit only. Full sized medals are not authorised to be worn with such. There is usually an instruction put out by the RSM (for Mess dinners, dining in nights and other events) on what is to be worn, and with what medals. Failure to comply to a written instruction is an offence, and failure to read and/or ingorance is no excuse

Let me assure you son, awards are not optional to wear if the dress is 'mess kit' As per the above post about the RSM after ya, he truly would be, (what mesage would you be sending to your peers, subordinates, and superiours) and if you didnt have them on the next time, you'd be in for a charge of disobeying an order). An exception of the rule would be if you had recently received a medal, and the minature was not purchased yet.

Besides, anyone of any rank and authority, regardless about what their personal opinion would wear them regardless. I have yet to see any serving member of any force refuse to wear their medals, regardless of their size.

Since, you are only 19, and not near the rank of having mess kit anyways, I guess its no problem, but with an attitude like you have I am sure you'll go a long way in your career.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2004, 18:17:04 by Wesley H. Allen, CD »
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Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2004, 20:39:59 »
I reiterate that the miniature medals look goofy; I certainly wasn't passing judgement of the full size ones.   Perhaps a full rack of medals in miniature look okay; anything fewer than 4 look like something MIchael Jackson would wear to a pajama party.

I only have three Micheal, less than your mandatory 4 minimum to look good, and I am very proud.   I also have a wound stirpe that I don't wear on my mess dress, but since it is not a medal, I still fall under the 4 medal benchmark.

Quote
Still, I'd rather have medals cluttering up my unform than miniatures.   I stand by the statement that miniatures are ugly.   Thankfully the wear of awards is optional.

You are saying this not from experience of being awarded any correct.   WE are not talking about your issued buttons or the collar dogs you wear.   This thread is about the proper use of wearing a uniform, not how ulgly medals are.  

To me miniature, ribbon, full don't make a difference.   They are something I have been given, and proud to wear.   I don't believe the P.C bench mark of minimum qty of medals, for your admiration, justifies a way out of a silly statement.

Hell man, I wore feathers on my head, horse hair on my crotch, sheeps wool wrapped around my as, and You think some small medals look tacky.....


Dileas

tess

« Last Edit: December 22, 2004, 20:42:46 by the 48th regulator »
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Offline Sailing Instructor

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2004, 01:30:52 »
I don't know how many times I must say this: I am only stating my personal opinion on the aesthetics of miniature medals vs full medals.  I realise what medals are for & that it is a tradition to wear miniatures with evening dress.  My posts were not a discussion on what is proper wear of a uniform.  For that matter, I dislike many uniform pieces but accept that they are proper issue & will wear them when ordered.

This purely aesthetic opinion is based only on my limited experience of miniatures (and, for that matter, of full medals).  To me the miniatures look 'phoney,' in that they don't hang as full medals do. Other than that, they are fine. 

I have 2 questions about miniatures, which may change my above opinion: Of what are the miniatures made? And, when & why did miniatures originate (assuming there was originally only one size of medals & miniatures were added later)?

PS. I have bespoken mess dress (still being made), since I so detest the mess service uniform.

Offline Radop

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2004, 22:24:49 »
At my school, I know of an individual that is not in the CF but his brother is in the reg force.
Apparently his brother got him a CADPAT backpack. Whether it was issued to his brother or his bro got it from QM, I don't know.
Anyway, he wears it at school and its not fake cadpat.

What exactly does this mean? Can he or his bro get in trouble?

The cadpat backpacks were a gift from the bde comds when we departed to afghanistan.  Our roto 0 got regular olive drab ones, roto 1 got cadpad and roto 3 got tan ones.
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Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #43 on: December 31, 2004, 02:53:31 »
I don't know how many times I must say this: I am only stating my personal opinion on the aesthetics of miniature medals vs full medals. I realise what medals are for & that it is a tradition to wear miniatures with evening dress. My posts were not a discussion on what is proper wear of a uniform. For that matter, I dislike many uniform pieces but accept that they are proper issue & will wear them when ordered.




This purely aesthetic opinion is based only on my limited experience of miniatures (and, for that matter, of full medals). To me the miniatures look 'phoney,' in that they don't hang as full medals do. Other than that, they are fine.

I have 2 questions about miniatures, which may change my above opinion: Of what are the miniatures made? And, when & why did miniatures originate (assuming there was originally only one size of medals & miniatures were added later)?

PS. I have bespoken mess dress (still being made), since I so detest the mess service uniform.

Sailing Instructor,

Aesthetics, that is your reason.  They don't hang like the full ones.  Ok fair enough, didn't mean to offend your better sense of fashion.

To answer your question, my miniatures are made of plastic as well as some unknown metal.

To me, and a lot like those who have them, it doesn't matter of the size, material, or what outfit we wear them in, we don't worry about the aesthetics as we are proud of the meaning.

I'll remember that then next time I pin them on my chest, so that I don't offend some other sharp dress fella who has that sharp eye for the army guy.

Dileas

« Last Edit: December 31, 2004, 02:59:33 by the 48th regulator »
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Offline Sailing Instructor

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #44 on: December 31, 2004, 03:09:46 »
Heh, 'Sharp eye for the army guy.'  I'm glad I'm finally understood (though actually never watched that show, but nevermind). 

Now that I think about it, when I am awarded a medal, I'll undoubtedly like wearing my miniature even though it doesn't hang there quite so nicely as does the medal.

Perhaps I'll look at old miniatures & see if at one time they hung as do  current medals.

Offline Big Foot

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #45 on: December 31, 2004, 03:12:33 »
as it has been said before, look is not the important part, the meaning behind the minatures is. i really don't care what they look like, as long as i have earned the right to wear it proudly. besides, the mess kit the miniatures are worn on isn't too sharp, either.
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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #46 on: December 31, 2004, 03:49:07 »
Heh, 'Sharp eye for the army guy.' I'm glad I'm finally understood (though actually never watched that show, but nevermind).

Now that I think about it, when I am awarded a medal, I'll undoubtedly like wearing my miniature even though it doesn't hang there quite so nicely as does the medal.

Perhaps I'll look at old miniatures & see if at one time they hung as do current medals.


hehehe,

man I dig you yer alright hehe, but then again it does say philosophy major under yer avatar.  Don't be using any of the mambo jahambo thought inspiring stuff on me...

better yet, plan a day to teach me to sail (serious) always wanted to learn.

cheers

tess
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Offline Sailing Instructor

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Re: Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?
« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2005, 21:16:39 »
A clarification:

I was mistaken in my attack against miniature medals.  As I had recently seen one, court-mounted, up close & then seen no court-mounted full-medals, I did not realise that it was the court-mounting, not the size of the medal which I thought ugly. 

I now revise my position to state that I find court-mounting unaesthetically-pleasing whereas swing mounting lets the medals 'hang nicely.'  I am also aware that, though the dress instructions do not require court-mounting, there is a CANFORGEN requiring this.  Damn that CANFORGEN.

Also, dress instructions mention that undress ribbons may be sewn on instead of mounted on that metal bar-thingy that attaches to the shirt or jacket.  I rather like the idea of that, too.

Anyway, this is off the original topic.  Just thought I'd clear that up.

Offline theseeker

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my DUs
« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2006, 17:55:13 »
it has been a while since i was in the reserves and i am still in the CFRC limbo so here goes my question

what are the regulations on wearing you DU to weddings funerals and formal events not CF events.

are they still you need to get permision from the powers at bay. :salute:
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Re: my DUs
« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2006, 18:12:24 »
DEU.......


Distinct environmental uniform

You need authorization...thats why on leave passes it says "authorized to wear uniform YES/NO"


And the expression is "powers that be" i beleive