Author Topic: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots  (Read 184204 times)

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: LPO'd boots
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2009, 13:44:23 »
I'll add a question or two.

I was ordered to the foot clinic following a Pt II medical a few years back, and given orthodics.  My orthodics don't fit into (then) the Army WWB or Cmbt Boots.  At the time, I was told I was entitled to 2 pair of special order/LPO boots only.   

This is what baffles me.  If I didn't need special boots, I would have 2 x combat boots and 2 x WWBs (4 pair).  But, what I ended up with was 1 pair of Magnum Sleaths, and 1 x pair of Bates M-9 Assault Boots (2 pair).  The Magnums suck in the winter, and the Bates are ovens in the summer...so I end up wearing the same boots day after day. 

Did an OT in 2007, change to Air DEU.  Now, I have my Magnums x 1, Bates x 1  plus 2 pair of the AF CEMS TCBs and CWWBs, neither of which I can wear with my orthotics.  So now I have 4 pair I can't wear, and only 1 pair of *temperate* and 1 pair of *cold/wet weather* boots.

What is the entitlement for LPO boots?  Shouldn't it be 4 pair, the same as I get if I could wear TCBs and CWWBs?  (FWIW, those suck too IMO).  Also, I was told I was only able to get new boots every 2 years, even if they were worn out/damaged.  (that was from the LS who was working the Special Footwear section at FLog a few years ago).

I still wish I received a footwear allowance and could buy from an approved list (that would hopefully have 10" Matterhorn field boots on it ffs).
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 13:47:33 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline PMedMoe

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Re: LPO'd boots
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2009, 14:45:35 »
Despite the fact that there is "over 70 different sizes now", most people will only have a "size range" of two to four sizes.  I tried on three different pairs of the CWWB (all at the smaller end of the size scale) and none of them fit.  Too narrow, too wide, too short, too long and no sizes in between those measurements.  Does that mean I'm entitled to LPO boots? 

I do have two pairs of the old combat boots, however, just because a boot is on someone's foot, it doesn't mean it fits.  Mine are actually a little large, however, they don't rub or pinch my feet and when I do a BFT, I just add an extra insole and wear two layers of socks (polypro and wool).  To save myself the hassle (and the headache) I think I'll just try to make these two (and my Magnums) last for the next four years.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: LPO'd boots
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2009, 19:12:31 »
The issue was that my feet (more correctly, ankles/calves) were too narrow for the TCB/GPB boots.  That being said, I never had a chit; Supply simply printed a form and off I went to the store.

And that answers the pertinent questions - you don`t fit into stocked footwear - it`s a sizing issue, not a medical issue. Two years. BUT, if the boots you were purchased need exchanging before that two years period is up, then you bring them in and exchange them sooner than that. Mind you, even with your current footwear - if they are still in good condition with no significant issues after two years - don`t be expecting an exchange (a purchase) of new boots to occur.
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Offline CANUKDOWNDER

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BOOT REGULATIONS
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2009, 18:57:17 »
hey, anyone out there know where in any of the CF manuals,orders etc that it states that you must wear the issue boots? i have been looking for this for sometime now and cant find anything. is there some manual that has a discription of the boots to be worn? any help would be good. i want to end this debate at work and make every ones life easier.
cheers

Offline muskrat89

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2009, 21:12:10 »
There are literally dozens of threads on this site that address your question.

Utilize the Search function, and you'll find all kinds of stuff.


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Offline MCG

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2009, 22:11:32 »
hey, anyone out there know where in any of the CF manuals,orders etc that it states that you must wear the issue boots?
It's funny how there is always a line of people looking for the published order that states they have to wear the issued boots.  You never come across anyone asking about the order for any other specific item.  "Where is the CF instruction that says I have to wear the issued combat pants? you know - because I think I'd be happier in my Levis jeans."

Offline Greymatters

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2009, 23:15:49 »
I always thought that it didnt matter what the Manual said - it was what the Man (RSM) said that counted!


Offline CANUKDOWNDER

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2009, 00:12:22 »
Well MCG do you wear the issue running shoes you were given? i doubt it, (not trying to sound like a dick)they are horrible pieces of junk. now the reason not to wear those is the same as purchasing your own footwear that you are in day in and out. if you are in crappy boots they will affect your feet in turn your ankles then knees, hips, back and so on. footwear is a very important piece of kit, and if you so chose to spend your own money on a pair of boots that are better for you, and they are all black and meet specs whats the problem? I was just trying to find a little help in finding this out. i have gone through the CF dress instruction manual and there is no mention of this, or one i could not find.
thanks  :salute:

Offline Nerf herder

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2009, 00:19:24 »
Well MCG do you wear the issue running shoes you were given? i doubt it, (not trying to sound like a dick)they are horrible pieces of junk. now the reason not to wear those is the same as purchasing your own footwear that you are in day in and out. if you are in crappy boots they will affect your feet in turn your ankles then knees, hips, back and so on. footwear is a very important piece of kit, and if you so chose to spend your own money on a pair of boots that are better for you, and they are all black and meet specs whats the problem? I was just trying to find a little help in finding this out. i have gone through the CF dress instruction manual and there is no mention of this, or one i could not find.
thanks  :salute:

You wear what you are issued...period.

If you require other styles of boots for medical reasons they are put on your docs and are issued to you from clothing stores.

It's in the books and not the dress instructions either. Get caught with unauthorized/ non-issued footwear and there could be hell to pay.

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Offline Occam

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2009, 00:57:55 »
It's funny how there is always a line of people looking for the published order that states they have to wear the issued boots.  You never come across anyone asking about the order for any other specific item.  "Where is the CF instruction that says I have to wear the issued combat pants? you know - because I think I'd be happier in my Levis jeans."

You and I both know that there is a difference between issued boots and issued combat pants.  The instructions regarding CF issue boot and "alternative" boots (available through but not from supply) have to be the least documented, least publicized policies in the CF.

As someone who hasn't worn an "issued" pair of footwear in over 20 years, it's a learning experience every time I go for replacements.  Cut the new guys some slack when they're asking questions about it.

Offline muskrat89

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2009, 01:24:47 »
Quote
You and I both know that there is a difference between issued boots and issued combat pants.  The instructions regarding CF issue boot and "alternative" boots (available through but not from supply) have to be the least documented, least publicized policies in the CF.

As someone who hasn't worn an "issued" pair of footwear in over 20 years, it's a learning experience every time I go for replacements.  Cut the new guys some slack when they're asking questions about it.

And I was..... There are a bunch of footwear threads on this site that explain all of the ins and outs of issued boots versus non-issued versus med chits versus whatever. The original poster can find the info on here by utilizing the search function (which ironically is the same thing I would have to do, to actually post the links for him/her.

I am locking this. Occam and McG can discuss this via PM if desired. canuckdownder - try the search function. If you give it a whirl and can't find what you're looking for, shoot me a PM.

Locked
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Offline MCG

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2009, 15:49:50 »
There are a bunch of footwear threads on this site that explain all of the ins and outs of issued boots versus non-issued versus med chits versus whatever.
Well, I've now merged several of the stand-alone threads together.  There is another good discussion burried in the GP Boot thread starting here:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,50234.msg815648.html#msg815648

Here are some worth noting take aways:
It is not the responsibility of the health services community to validate that your boots fit.  That is the responsibility of the supply system (either through LPO or “made to measure” versions of what is in service).  Instead of burdening the supply system with a constant stream of individuals looking for unnecessary medical authorization for fitting boots (you are entitled to fitting boots even without asking a doctor).  The only time footwear should be a medical issue is when the source of the problem is the foot.

In those instances where a medical problem does require sourcing special boots, the sited reference states that it is not the job of health services to identify that soldier needs brand ‘X.’  Once the medical decision is made, it is again the job of the supply system to get the right solution (within whatever guidelines exist for LPO or ordering custom builds of issue boots).
 http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/health-sante/pd/pol/word/4090-20-eng.doc

I don’t think there is one style boot that will meet the requirements of all Army users.  We might be able to come close by giving soldiers a few options, but that still remains a requirements & supply problem (not medical).

...
Personnel who cannot be equipped with standard or peripheral size garments are entitled to the issue of special size items for actual requirements, not exceeding the quantity authorized by the applicable EGC.
If fitting indicates that an individual’s foot size is not within the range of standard catalogue footwear sizes, the individual is provided with locally purchased special size footwear IAW Special size footwear.
Local purchase, paid by the Crown?  Those boots should then be on the member's clothing docs, and are issued.

Methinks someone needs to issue a soldier-level guide to boots:

(1) If they came from clothing stores, they can be worn.

(2) If clothing stores had them custom made for you, they can be worn.

(3) If clothing stores bought them for you (including an LPO that you did yourself), they can be worn.

(4) If you bought them yourself because you're a ninja-sniper-SOF-Rambo, put on the damn Mk IIIs.

So, bringing things back to the current thread:
... The instructions regarding CF issue boot and "alternative" boots (available through but not from supply) have to be the least documented, least publicized policies in the CF.

As someone who hasn't worn an "issued" pair of footwear in over 20 years, it's a learning experience every time I go for replacements. 
I think you mean to say that for the last 20 years, you have been wearing issued non-standard boots.  They were locally purchsed by supply and issued to you.  These are issued boots and you can wear them.

... and this thread is now one stop shopping for all discussions on this topic.

Offline Infanteer

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2009, 17:45:48 »
Funny, I thought this issue had died out to the more galling Tacvest - nobody really cares what you wear around where I work; as long as you got the right colour....
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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2009, 17:57:24 »
...nobody really cares what you wear around where I work...
And a blood-chilling wail of dispair was heard from generations of The RCR.....    ;D

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2009, 20:26:06 »
Funny, I thought this issue had died out to the more galling Tacvest - nobody really cares what you wear around where I work; as long as you got the right colour....

"Where I work" being the operative words in your statement; nice for you, but not (necessarily) reflective of the thread's topic title "boot regulations".
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Offline Lord ReZ

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2009, 00:50:34 »
I believe that no one boot, no matter how many sizes it comes in, fit every soldiers feet properly. I don't see the big deal in boots. If they're black, and don't look stupid, why should a soldier not be allowed to wear them? Danners, swats, magnums, matterhorns, bates, all should be allowed without the usual whining by higher ups claiming that a standard is broken. Well then, perhaps every beret should be formed the same too? Everyone will wear the same type of glasses, blah blah blah. It makes no sense for little things like that.

I'm glad in my unit, the term "common sense" applies. We are allowed to wear any boots we please as long as they're black, come at least 8 inches high, and don't look silly. Makes everyone lives easier, allows every soldier to wear a pair of boots they're most comfortable in while still maintaining that "black army boot" appearance.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 00:54:10 by Lord ReZ »

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2009, 01:03:14 »
I believe that no one boot, no matter how many sizes it comes in, fit every soldiers feet properly. I don't see the big deal in boots. If they're black, and don't look stupid, why should a soldier not be allowed to wear them? Danners, swats, magnums, matterhorns, bates, all should be allowed without the usual whining by higher ups claiming that a standard is broken. Well then, perhaps every beret should be formed the same too? Everyone will wear the same type of glasses, blah blah blah. It makes no sense for little things like that.

I'm glad in my unit, the term "common sense" applies. We are allowed to wear any boots we please as long as they're black, come at least 8 inches high, and don't look silly. Makes everyone lives easier, allows every soldier to wear a pair of boots they're most comfortable in while still maintaining that "black army boot" appearance.

Yes, the strict application of "common sense" would indeed be nice.

Glad to hear as well that "your" Unit applies it.

What are you going to do when you go to (let's say) Gagetown (or elsewhere) on a course and wear "whatever" boots and the BRSM or School RSM asks "where's your chit or those?" ... And you don't have one??

What your home Unit aproves for wear (or doesn't) is one thing ... but head to a base and belong to them while on course etc ... and some of them don't give two shits what your "home unit" does - you are "their student" now; some places tend to stick "to the books".

I personally, give "no shits" about what boots you wear on you feet, but do NOT show up at clothing stores whining for us to issue you combat boots to wear "cause they won't let me wear my own boots while here on this course" because you didn't bother to bring your issued ones with you and get called on 'em by the staff. Standard response: "Hope you got someone at home who can courier them to you ..." (while shaking my head and walking away).

That happens at least 3 or 4 times a week and it's really getting old. Then again, so are the infantry guys showing up for courses at the Inf Sch who "forgot" to bring their tac vests.  ::)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 01:08:38 by ArmyVern »
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Offline Lord ReZ

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2009, 01:19:10 »
The training schools I've attended on both as student and staff, the leniency towards soldiers having their own boots seems to be increasing. Soldiers who refuse to bring their issued boots to try and get away without wearing them, well....I'm glad you give them the cold shoulder :P . Easy enough to get a chit, don't give those lazy troublemakers leniency! ;)

That happens at least 3 or 4 times a week and it's really getting old. Then again, so are the infantry guys showing up for courses at the Inf Sch who "forgot" to bring their tac vests.  ::)

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2009, 12:43:04 »
Boots, the supply system and the medical system and the way it works, vice the way it is supposed to work is the subjec to this post of mine, which will more than likely be a rant.

- '03 or so, doing my medical Part I and II over at the Stad hospital, the MWO PA sees that I am pronating (I think thats the term, my feet fall "inwards"), which I didn't do when I was sworn in at all.  Sends me to the foot clinic, foot clinic does their thing, and off I go to get orthodics.

- orthodics don't fit in my issued boots (the old Cmbt boot or the CTS Wet Weather boot.  Supply sends me to local contractor for "special combat boots".  However, I am only issued 2 pair of boots, and take 1 "summer" (Magnum Stealths) and 1 "winter" (Bates M-9 Assault boots).  I go to Special Footwear at FLog and ask how come I am only getting 2 pair of boots to replace 4 pair of 'issued' boots.  No answer given, just "thats all you are entitled to. 

- CEMS project 3ish years later begin issueing CEMS boots.  Get issued 1 x pair of the new CWWB, they fit fine UNTIL I put my orthodic in them.  Civie sup tech tells me the only option I have it to take a wider or longer pair of boots.  I ask "so, the answer is to give me boots that don't fit my feet in order to accomodate orthodics, which will then leave me with orthodics in boots that are too big, which will eventually lead me back to the MIR with a different foot problem?  Civie suppie says "these boots are supposed to be suitable for 95% of AF personnel".  I guess although I am the other 5%, I still only get them.

- life goes on, I get issued the 2nd set of CWWBs, as I thought maybe, just maybe, it was that specific pair of boots.  Nope.  2nd set the same.  I explained I was assessed for special boots for my orthodics already, and civie sup tech notes that, yes, I have special footwear on my clothign docs.  Says there is nothing he can do though.  I continue wearing my Bates with the CEMS boots in my closet.

- CEMS issues Temperate Combat Boot last summer.  Same issue with my orthodics in those boots.  When I have the orthodics in, every step I take, the steel toe pushes down on the top of my toe joints, whatever they are called, and inside of an hour, I am limping around.  So back into my 1 pair of Magnums everyday.  My CoC at the time start telling me I have to wear the issued ones.  I say I can't with the orthodics.  Told 'well don't use the orthodics then'.  Ya, right.  Dumbass.

- Speaking to a supp tech, tell him about all of this crap.  He used to work for Flog, and says that no, I don't wear the issued boots if I have been assessed for special cmbt boots for my orthodics, which I was send to be assessed for during a medical, which the foot clinic then sent me for orthodics AND issued me a chit, which Special Footwear at Flog then added to my clothing docs.  He suggests I go back to Wing Supply and tell them I have been to the foot clinic and WAS assessed by the specialists who DID issue me special footwear, etc.  Off I go to Supply.

- same civie supp tech is at the counter.  Explain AGAIN that I have special footwear to accomodate my orthodics, which I can't wear in the CEMS boots, and that my special issue boots are really in bad shape (been wearing them for how long now?) and need replacement.  I also bring up the issue that I only have 1 "summer" and 1 "winter" boot, although I am supposed to have 2 x pair of each, the same issue I have of CEMS boots.  I try to turn in my CEMS boots, and am told he won't take them.  He says although I have special combat boots on my clothing docs, he can't send me to Special Footwear until he has a chit.  I already HAVE a ******' chit.  This is when I started clenching my fists I am sure.  He again says he can only put me in wider or longer boots.  I say "I will NOT wear boots that are the wrong size for my feet.  I don't need longer or wider ones, I need ones with a deeper footbed because of my orthodics."  He says "you'll have to go to the hosptial to be assessed at the foot clinic."

So.  Tomorrow morning at 0730, I will be back at the foot clinic, to tell them although they have assessed me in '03, and every 2 years since then (including last spring, when I went for my new orthodics...) I am back to be assessed for what they already assessed me for 6 ******* years ago and every 2nd year since.   ::)

Now...am I the only one that gets ******* mad over this crap? 

For anyone from the medical and supply world, here are my questions:

1.  How many pair of special boots am I supposed to have?  Isn't it the same as I am entitled to in CEMS boots (4 pair total)?

2.  If the medical world has sent me to the foot clinic, who has assessed me for orthodics and Special Footwear at Flog has put special cmbt boots on my clothing docs, how long is that good for?  Does it *run out*?  Its not like my goddamn feet are going to correct themselves. 

3.  Why are supply techs being told to put people in boots that aren't the right size for people's feet?  Boots that are too wide, or too long, or too short are NOT the right size boots and will cause foot problems, which the medical types will then have to assess and treat...which they already did for me.  Now, the solution to orthodics that I have to wear because of X years of clumping around in the old combat boots and shitty liners, is to put those orthodics which correct the problem into boots that are too long or wide, which will then cause a different problem with my feet?   ::)

frig me.  My blood pressure is up again just typing this.  This has got to be one of the STUPIDEST things I have ever dealt with in 20 years in the CF. 
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Offline COBRA-6

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2009, 12:59:24 »
I feel the rage man...

I was sent to the CFSU(O) foot clinic by the CFSU(O) clothing stores because they changed their policy and my chit from my doc at the CFSU(O) HCC, which was less than a year old, was no longer valid, only chits from the foot clinic would now be accepted... FFS
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2009, 13:13:40 »
I hear ya!  But, in my case, it WAS the foot clinic who assessed me.  What a gong show.  The part that I don't get is the guy at the counter telling me they were told to put people in boots that are longer and/or wider than a mbr's foot, when what we/I really need is one that has a deeper footbed.  Which the CEMS boots do NOT have.

 :brickwall:
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Offline Soldier1stTradesman2nd

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2009, 13:16:26 »
Conversely...

I am sure there was a point when the "standard" or "all dressing the same" (right to the same boot laces etc etc) was based on common sense or a sense of purpose (eg looking good on a parade, stretched out and often limited supply chains in extended campaigns etc). However, those responsible for conformity and dress regs (at schools, bases and units) have to start thinking big picture, ie preventative medicine. I for one do NOT have a chit for COTS boots, however, I am not going to frak up my feet and joints with sub-par GP boots just so I can say, "hey look at my feet and what the system has done to them, I am combat ineffective, now give me my chit!" If an RSM challenges me on my COTS boots, I would gladly challenge him/her on why I would willingly wait for my feet to be ruined just to fix the problem after the fact.

Now, this is not an endorsement for anyone to get into RSMs' faces about this issue. I just believe in using whatever works to get the job done, even if it does not always "conform" to a so called standard (esp when it comes to black/tan boots - get over it and focus on the tasks at hand!!).

Rant ends.
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Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS
« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2009, 13:24:56 »
It's funny how there is always a line of people looking for the published order that states they have to wear the issued boots.  You never come across anyone asking about the order for any other specific item.  "Where is the CF instruction that says I have to wear the issued combat pants? you know - because I think I'd be happier in my Levis jeans."

Sorry, but that's flawed army-style logic. I defy you to show me a single case where there was a long term injury that has been caused by wearing, or could have been prevented by not wearing issued pants. (I do know of a single individual who has medical authorization to wear the old style combats due to an allergy to somthing in the cadpat combats, however there was no long injury caused)

I'll accept that "rules are rules" and that I have to wear issued boots (And then I'll ignore it, because very few people around here give a darn about issued vs non-issued boots, and I've got a vague medical chit for boots anyway) however, unlike pants, and ninja-sniper-wannabes aside, there are a great many documented injuries caused by issued boots, or that could have been prevented by not wearing issued boots.

My issue of disgust here is because of a handful of draconian attitudes, or what I like to call the "toy soldier" mentality, the army would rather wait until injuries have occured, and do what they can do help the injured party along after, rather then prevent the injury from occuring to begin with.

The concept that looking "identical" is what makes us a professional fighting force is dangerously out of date, the army should save it for the drill square, and let people get on with the business of soldiering. "Legally" (referring to the geneva convention, not to issued orders) we're only required to wear a recognisable uniform. No one is going to argue that wearing different sorts of boots is going to make us any less recognisable as Canadian soldiers.

The argument that it makes us look unprofessional in the eyes of the public, is also groundless. Are your boots clean and shiny? That's all it takes. John Q. Public won't know the difference if you're wearing SWATS or WWB or MKIIIs or Danners. He's clean, that's what they notice.

« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 14:05:42 by a Sig Op »
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Offline Soldier1stTradesman2nd

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2009, 13:30:27 »
Added to above by MCG, what looks unprofessional is soldiers in the sandbox (for example) jury-rigging all kinds of addons (due to necessity) to the POS tacvest flipflopping about, or Browning HPs falling out of M9 Beretta holsters. The list goes on.
THAT's what looks unprofessional.
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Offline Dirt Digger

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #49 on: September 01, 2009, 14:53:31 »
I feel your pain.  I have what can be best described as "monkey feet".  When this is coupled with low ankle mobility and orthotics for my pronation, I find very few boots will actually fit my feet.  (Then there was that bilateral fasciotomy for chronic compartment syndrome...but that's a separate headache.)

So far, I've dealt with boot issues in Winnipeg, Toronto and Trenton with different levels of success.  My understanding (which was aided some time ago by one of Vern's posts) is that:

a) the medical system gets you walking in a straight line, and
b) the supply system has to fit whatever system that takes into a pair of boots.

The problem are different levels of knowledge and understanding from both sides of the house.  Sometimes even different policies on bases about who you have to see first or who you need a check in the box from...clinic, supply, specialist, physio, etc, etc.  I've had a doctor write me a chit that said "authorized Danners" (um...no...authorized a boot that fits).  I've also had a Supply Tech insist that the current issued boot would fit my foot with my orthotic.

/Rant on
I'm sorry...I'm not trying to be a pain in the ***, but I do believe I know more about how my foot is fitting inside a boot than anyone else does.  Oddly enough, that foot is attached to my central nervous system...if it's inside a shallow boot with a deep orthotic and I can feel the stitches in the top of the heel cup digging into my heel...maybe, just maybe, I know what the hell I'm talking about.  A longer or wider boot will not correct a depth problem!
/Rant off

Anyways, I now have the heel scars (and photos) to show to the next individual that knows more about my feet than I do.

Current status: Through the system I have issued one pair of winter boots (Danners), one pair of summer boots (Rocky 911) and two pairs of desert boots (Danners).  I love my Rockys, but they're certainly nowhere as durable and long-lasting as the Danners.

I don't know if I've had better luck than most, but it pisses me off that something as critical as footware quickly becomes a gongshow.  I have a serious problem with the belief that something as complicated and varied as a human foot can be squeezed into a single boot design. 
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