Author Topic: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots  (Read 189404 times)

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Offline Loachman

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #50 on: September 01, 2009, 15:34:12 »
We must be truly spoiled here in Borden. Base Supply has always been a delight.

They purchased two pairs of Magnums for me when the issued hot weather boots would not fit (fit problem, not a medical problem), and swapped the POS a** f**ce Cold Wet Weather Boots, that killed my feet and in which I could not walk straight, for the Army version. I have not used the latter, and probably never will, but they are a much better fit and I can actually walk in them.

I did not even have to ask about the hot weather boots. The nice civilian lady saw the fit problem, filled out a form, and sent me into town to pick out something better.

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #51 on: September 01, 2009, 17:30:27 »
~Whew~
Boots, the supply system and the medical system and the way it works, vice the way it is supposed to work is the subjec to this post of mine, which will more than likely be a rant.

- '03 or so, doing my medical Part I and II over at the Stad hospital, the MWO PA sees that I am pronating (I think thats the term, my feet fall "inwards"), which I didn't do when I was sworn in at all.  Sends me to the foot clinic, foot clinic does their thing, and off I go to get orthodics.

- orthodics don't fit in my issued boots (the old Cmbt boot or the CTS Wet Weather boot.  Supply sends me to local contractor for "special combat boots".  However, I am only issued 2 pair of boots, and take 1 "summer" (Magnum Stealths) and 1 "winter" (Bates M-9 Assault boots).  I go to Special Footwear at FLog and ask how come I am only getting 2 pair of boots to replace 4 pair of 'issued' boots.  No answer given, just "thats all you are entitled to. 
Bullshit.
You are entitled to:

2 pr Combat Boots or 2 pr GP boots); and
2 pr CWWBs (gortex winter boots).

That's 4 pair of issued boots. If your orthotics do not fit into the 2 pair of cbt boots (or 2 pr GP boots as the case may be) that you are entitled to, then you are entitled to have 2 pair unlined/non-gortex/summer custom/LPOd boots which do accomodate your orthotics.

Additionally, if your orthotics do not fit into the 2 pair of CWWBs that you are entitled to, then you are entitled to have 2 pair lined/gortex/winter/waterproof custom/LPOd boots which do accomodate your orthotics.

That equals 4 pair of boots 2 pr of each). Exactly what you are entitled to be issued, just yours will be custom/LPOd.

But, now you're Air Force ...

Quote
- CEMS project 3ish years later begin issueing CEMS boots.  Get issued 1 x pair of the new CWWB, they fit fine UNTIL I put my orthodic in them.  Civie sup tech tells me the only option I have it to take a wider or longer pair of boots.   I ask "so, the answer is to give me boots that don't fit my feet in order to accomodate orthodics, which will then leave me with orthodics in boots that are too big, which will eventually lead me back to the MIR with a different foot problem?  Civie suppie says "these boots are supposed to be suitable for 95% of AF personnel".  I guess although I am the other 5%, I still only get them.

The yellow bit: the civvie is RTFOOer - tell 'em I said so and to check the CFSM. It is the civvies JOB (and SUPPLY's responsibility) to ensure your boots FIT. Making you take a wider/longer size than you require means THEY DON'T FIT. Most, but not all orthotics can be accomodated within the CTS GP boot, the CTS CWWB and the CEMS CWWB. That means 5% get them LPOd/custom!! <--- Tell him to consult hs &^%$* regulations in the CFSM!

Quote
...CWWBs, as I thought maybe, just maybe, it was that specific pair of boots.  Nope.  2nd set the same.  I explained I was assessed for special boots for my orthodics already, and civie sup tech notes that, yes, I have special footwear on my clothign docs.  Says there is nothing he can do though.  I continue wearing my Bates with the CEMS boots in my closet.

Bullshit again. He can read the reference andactually do his damn job.

Quote
- CEMS issues Temperate Combat Boot last summer.  Same issue with my orthodics in those boots.  When I have the orthodics in, every step I take, the steel toe pushes down on the top of my toe joints, whatever they are called, and inside of an hour, I am limping around.  So back into my 1 pair of Magnums everyday.  My CoC at the time start telling me I have to wear the issued ones.  I say I can't with the orthodics.  Told 'well don't use the orthodics then'.  Ya, right.  Dumbass.

You are also entitled to have 2 pair of temperate boots purchased for you (if & when entitled to temperate footwear) if your entitled ones do not accomodate your "medically prescribed" orhotics. Once they are bought for you by Supply, tell your CoC this: "they ARE my issued boots" now are you going to allow me to wear them or are you going to order me in writing to disobey a medical officers orders?"

Quote
- Speaking to a supp tech, tell him about all of this crap.  He used to work for Flog, and says that no, I don't wear the issued boots if I have been assessed for special cmbt boots for my orthodics, which I was send to be assessed for during a medical, which the foot clinic then sent me for orthodics AND issued me a chit, which Special Footwear at Flog then added to my clothing docs.  He suggests I go back to Wing Supply and tell them I have been to the foot clinic and WAS assessed by the specialists who DID issue me special footwear, etc.  Off I go to Supply.

This Sup Tech above was correct ...

Quote
- same civie supp tech is at the counter.  Explain AGAIN that I have special footwear to accomodate my orthodics, which I can't wear in the CEMS boots, and that my special issue boots are really in bad shape (been wearing them for how long now?) and need replacement.  I also bring up the issue that I only have 1 "summer" and 1 "winter" boot, although I am supposed to have 2 x pair of each, the same issue I have of CEMS boots.  I try to turn in my CEMS boots, and am told he won't take them.  He says although I have special combat boots on my clothing docs, he can't send me to Special Footwear until he has a chit.  I already HAVE a ******' chit.  This is when I started clenching my fists I am sure.  He again says he can only put me in wider or longer boots.  I say "I will NOT wear boots that are the wrong size for my feet.  I don't need longer or wider ones, I need ones with a deeper footbed because of my orthodics."  He says "you'll have to go to the hosptial to be assessed at the foot clinic."

Medical Regulations (not Supply regulations) state that pers entitled to orthotics must be re-assessed every two years by physio and obtain a new chit if it's determined that orthotics are still required. Ergo, if your chit we have on file is greater than 2 year old, we at clothing can't do anything for you until you re-visit physio. Sorry dude, that's the process on the medical side of the house.
 
Quote
So.  Tomorrow morning at 0730, I will be back at the foot clinic, to tell them although they have assessed me in '03, and every 2 years since then (including last spring, when I went for my new orthodics...) I am back to be assessed for what they already assessed me for 6 ******* years ago and every 2nd year since.   ::)

Well, if they reassessed you last spring, why the ^*()^$ didn't they give you the new chit? They should know better. They certainly know that we can't buy you new footwear to accomodate your orthotics wihout one if the one you've got is more than 2 years old.

Quote
Now...am I the only one that gets ******* mad over this crap? 

For anyone from the medical and supply world, here are my questions:

Nope, read this thread. But, I get the impressin that physio didn't give you a new chit when you were assessed last spring --- that's a problem in and of itself on the medical side ofthehouse; I can't help you there.


Quote
1.  How many pair of special boots am I supposed to have?  Isn't it the same as I am entitled to in CEMS boots (4 pair total)?

2.  If the medical world has sent me to the foot clinic, who has assessed me for orthodics and Special Footwear at Flog has put special cmbt boots on my clothing docs, how long is that good for?  Does it *run out*?  Its not like my goddamn feet are going to correct themselves. 

3.  Why are supply techs being told to put people in boots that aren't the right size for people's feet?  Boots that are too wide, or too long, or too short are NOT the right size boots and will cause foot problems, which the medical types will then have to assess and treat...which they already did for me.  Now, the solution to orthodics that I have to wear because of X years of clumping around in the old combat boots and shitty liners, is to put those orthodics which correct the problem into boots that are too long or wide, which will then cause a different problem with my feet?   ::)

frig me.  My blood pressure is up again just typing this.  This has got to be one of the STUPIDEST things I have ever dealt with in 20 years in the CF.

I jus aswered them all again. And each point you've raised has been asked before on this site.

As for what boots/footwear you are entitled to:

For each and every set of mil pattern footwear that you are entitled to, you are also entitled to custom/LPOd if the "standard issue" mil pattern footwear can not accomodate your medically prescribed orthotics.

And yes, that includes custom-made ankle boots and oxfords that will accomodate your orthotics if you so desire.


« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 17:39:45 by ArmyVern »
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2009, 10:00:58 »
Vern,

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post.  I think you hit the nail on the head with the "the foot clinic should have given me a new chit" as, they did never give me a chit except the first time I was in back in '03. 

I went to the foot clinic today, explained what was going on.  The physiotherapist did her thing, and then gave me a new chit to take to Special Footwear (it is a memo format request for footwear to accomodate prescribed orthotics, signed by the BSurg. 

When I was at Supply last month, there was a chit on my paper-copy clothing docs, but it was from a while ago as it was for Sgt EITS and was dated 2003 IIRC.  When they said I had to be assessed every 2 years, I tried to explain I WAS assessed every 2 years.  Now I think I see where the issue was, as the physio folks hadn't given me a new chit every 2 years.  So, they (supply) had no paperwork to cover their a**.  Which now makes sense that he told me I had to go back to the foot clinic.  The misunderstanding was in the "chit" vice "be assessed" idea.  I had no idea they were supposed to give me a chit every 2 years for boots. 

They also wrote on my chit the words "Fit issue" with a narrative to follow and phone number to call if there is any questions.

The physiotherapist sort of looked at me funny when I mentioned that they said that a longer/wider boot would solve the problem, she said "but those boots then wouldn't fit your feet". 

However, she didn't mention anything about them not giving me a new chit to take to Special Footwear every 2 years, but she was quick to write me up one after looking at my file...I'd wager that she saw that they hadn't given me one in 6 years, despite me being back in '05, '07 and '09 for new orthodics.

*sigh* After leaving the foot clinic, I went right down to Special Footwear on the dockyard, only to find out they are closed on Wednesdays.   :blotto: 

Thanks again for the reply AV.  Seems that the whole problem was the foot clinic not giving me a new chit every 2 years.  As the end user, I had no idea they didn't do that, or were supposed to do that, at every 2 years assessment.  I just assume the folks doing this stuff know the requirements, and do them.  I'll know to ask next time.  Hopefully there won't be an issue with getting the 4 x pair of LPOd boots, vice the 2 x pair I was given last time.  It kinda sucked to have to wear the same pair of boots everyday, especially in the summer/heat. 



« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 10:06:10 by Eye In The Sky »
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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2009, 10:51:35 »
As with many things in the CF, the problem is in integrating all the moving parts, and ensuring that everyone involved understands the process and their part to play.

We seem to have gotten away from "old" methods of documenting processes and outcomes, and instead have twenty-year old pubs with a stack of CANFORGEN and other messages pasted in in various places.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2009, 11:30:06 »
As with many things in the CF, the problem is in integrating all the moving parts, and ensuring that everyone involved understands the process and their part to play.

We seem to have gotten away from "old" methods of documenting processes and outcomes, and instead have twenty-year old pubs with a stack of CANFORGEN and other messages pasted in in various places.

After reading this, I decided to look around the MARLANT IntraNet site.  Checked the CF H Svc C (A) site and checked out their FAQ.  Nothing there on this process.  Nada.  Tried Patient Services.  No way to find a reference to foot clinics, etc.  I am not sure how mbr's find out about this foot clinic.  I was referred by a PA, and had never heard of it before that.  Sure, a phone call to your CDU might get you the info, but wouldn't having the info avail save mbr's a trip to Sick Parade?  The foot clinic is self-referring here, you don't need to see the CDU staff to go to it, they are detached from the process it seems. 

Finding nothing there, I went to the FLog site, and after stumbling around in there, I found a link to Clothing - FAQs, just by luck.

http://halifax.mil.ca/FLog/customers/Clothing/FAQ.html

The 3rd last item in the drop-down list is "What is the process to get special size footwear?"  From that list item:

We will do want we can to fit you from the sizes available off the shelf. If we cannot fit you from stock, then we will either send you to the hospital for a medical chit or start the process to send you down town to be fitted. If you have orthotics insoles we will still follow the same process as earlier mentioned and if required you will require a chit from the physio department in Stad Hospital, then come down to fill out a request for the boots at the special size counter then we will call when you can go to a civilian supplier to pick up the boots.

It would be nice if:

1.  this information was easier to find;
2.  this information was complete (fails to mention you require a new chit every 2 years, assessment every 2 years);
3.  contained links to CF H Svcs policies and directives; and
4.  contained links to the CF Supply world policies and directives.
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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2009, 12:06:13 »
Unfortunate, but most unit/base websites are woefully out of date (including links to main sites which are no longer valid).  I don't even know if all places offer foot clinics.  The blurb about boots not fitting is wrong as well, at least according to Vern's posts.

If a member simply does not fit into any boots in the system (and has no medical problems), it is a Supply issue, not a medical issue.  So the line about sending pers for a medical chit is wrong.

I do like the line about "we will do what we can to fit you from the sizes available" bit.  Yeah, we'll measure your foot, then ask you to try a pair of boots.  If they don't fit, we'll try wider, then we'll try longer.  Or at least, that was my experience in Kingston.  Unfortunately, it was not recorded on my docs and I have since been posted to Ottawa.  The policy here (apparently) is that you have to wear the boots for at least a week to prove they don't fit.  I was given insoles (not orthotics) at physio here and because they raise the arch of my foot so much, they are not comfortable with my boots.  Physio advised me to go get new boots at Clothing but after the problems I went through in Kingston, I don't want to go through all that (I know, my choice).  The boots hurt like hell without an insole driving my foot higher.  Can't imagine what they'd be like with the insole.   My physiotherapist has ordered me different insoles that I can wear with the boots I am presently issued.

Oh, and I also only have two pairs of issued boots.
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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #56 on: September 02, 2009, 18:23:19 »
As with many things in the CF, the problem is in integrating all the moving parts, and ensuring that everyone involved understands the process and their part to play.

We seem to have gotten away from "old" methods of documenting processes and outcomes, and instead have twenty-year old pubs with a stack of CANFORGEN and other messages pasted in in various places.

Give me a "Hallelujah", brother.

From an old post:

...

When the PULL system of amendments came in (late '90s as I recall), I was a Chief Clerk in a major unit.  I began to notice a decline in the expertise of my people - they were CONSTANTLY referring to the online pubs prior to expressing an opinion regarding their area of expertise.  Were they stupid?  Of course not - it was just that they had NO WAY of being confident in their knowledge without checking the online publication EVERY TIME they were asked a question - they didn't know what had been changed without PHYSICALLY (or electronically, if you prefer) checking the publication EVERY SINGLE TIME they were asked a question.

This fact slowed things down in my Orderly Room - none of my subordinates (or ME, for that matter) were able to CONFIDENTLY carry out their assigned duties without CONSTANTLY checking the online pubs.  This became even more onerous with the introduction of DAODs, and the arising of the habit of amending orders via CANFORGEN instead of actually amending the publication in question.
...


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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2009, 21:39:32 »

Oh, and I also only have two pairs of issued boots.

What enviornment are you?

Both the types of footwear and the numbers of each type of footwear you are entitled to change dependant upon enviornment and trade.

For example, sailors are not entitled to any pairs of combat boots. Air/Army aren't entitled to 2 pr sea boots.
Sup Techs, MSE Ops, Engr etc are entitled to 2 pr safety boots as well - Infantry guys to none ...

Whatever the case, whatever you are entitled to for your trade & enviornment in stock-issued footwear ... you are entitled to same (& entitled to same qty of each type as if they were your "issued") in custom/LPOd footwear if the mil pattern do not accomodate your orthotics into them.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 22:00:12 by ArmyVern »
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #58 on: September 02, 2009, 21:45:24 »
As with many things in the CF, the problem is in integrating all the moving parts, and ensuring that everyone involved understands the process and their part to play.

We seem to have gotten away from "old" methods of documenting processes and outcomes, and instead have twenty-year old pubs with a stack of CANFORGEN and other messages pasted in in various places.

Actually, this is not the case. In the old days, one had to go to clothing stores or base supply to consult the ever changing glue in-the-paragraph-change hard copy version of the ALM181 CF Supply Manual that covered footwear.

Now, the new manual in it's electronic form (The 007 CFSM) is available to every soldier/sailor/airman who has DIN access right from their own workplace. I've posted the links to it here before and have referenced the applic paras dealing without footwear. No need to cut message ammendments either via CANFORGEN or other means --- the CFSM is updated weekly online.

And for us Sup techs - that electronic version is a HUGE time saver and improvement over the old days of pouring through volumes & volumes of hard copy chapters of the 181 --- and then having to consult the hardcopies of the ammendments to ensure there wasn't an ammendment to your specific ref once you finally dug through 20kms of pubs to find it.

No one has to run any further than their computer. Sure we need to check weekly for updates, but we had to do that in the "old days" too - and it's a 500% more effecient process to do so these days.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 21:50:13 by ArmyVern »
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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2009, 21:51:57 »
Vern:

That's one pub that's being done properly.

I challenge you to find an up-to-date version of the dress manual, though...
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #60 on: September 02, 2009, 21:57:18 »
Vern:

That's one pub that's being done properly.

I challenge you to find an up-to-date version of the dress manual, though...

There isn't one.

Hard to publish what is in (these days) a daily influx of ammendments and changes due to kit being constantly introduced ... where the heck does one begin when nary a minute goes by where someone somewhere isn't changing beard regs, ballcap regs, TV regs, badges allowed on "XX" mess kit uniform regs ... etc etc

Perhaps that's their story?  ???
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #61 on: September 03, 2009, 10:09:28 »
Now, the new manual in it's electronic form (The 007 CFSM) is available to every soldier/sailor/airman who has DIN access right from their own workplace. I've posted the links to it here before and have referenced the applic paras dealing without footwear. No need to cut message ammendments either via CANFORGEN or other means --- the CFSM is updated weekly online.

No one has to run any further than their computer. Sure we need to check weekly for updates, but we had to do that in the "old days" too - and it's a 500% more effecient process to do so these days.

The ref is CFSM Vol 3, Chap 13, Sect G, 3-13G-002 - Special size personal allotment clothing, footwear and orthopaedic furniture. para's 5-10 (unless I am right out of it this morning)?  I'll post the contents here for those who don't have access to CFSM. 

CFSM Link - DWAN/Intranet/DIN access only

5.  Special size footwear:

The following definitions are provided for the purpose of this article:

Orthoses: Is an orthopaedic appliance or apparatus used to support, align, prevent or correct deformities or to improve function of moveable parts of the body. One common example is a custom foot insole. 

Orthopaedic Footwear: Is custom footwear required by individuals with deformed or surgically treated feet. This includes custom-made military pattern footwear, and internal or external modifications to military and civilian footwear. Orthopaedic footwear is funded by the Command Surgeon.

If after being fitted IAW Measuring and fitting of footwear (3-13G-003) an individual is found to have a foot size, which does not fall within the range of standard catalogue footwear sizes and does not require orthopaedic footwear, the individual will be provided with special size footwear. B/W/S are responsible to fund these requirements through their Command allotments. All special size boots are free issue to all Regular and Reserve force members. Supply sections shall ensure the member receives footwear that fits properly and that meets performance and quality standards equivalent to the authorized CF footwear to which the member is entitled as defined in the applicable scales of issue. Special size safety footwear must meet the safety standards of the regulation footwear. Supply sections are under no obligation to procure brand name footwear. The procedures for Special size shoes/oxfords is covered at para 7.

Athletic Shoes will only be issued to recruits on a one time basis and will not be exchangeable or available for purchase.  CF members Regular and Reserve force are responsible for the purchase of athletic shoes upon completion of recruit training.   The only exception would be for a member who has suffered a CF related injury or has surgically treated feet and requires a custom build athletic shoe.  In these rare cases the athletic shoe would be purchased by supply and funded by the Command Surgeon.

Note:  Class “A” Reservists shall only be issued one pair of Special Size Boots or Oxfords/Shoes as applicable. For example if an individual is entitled to one pair of shoes and two pair of boots the individual shall be issued one pair of shoes and one pair of boots. If the individual is converted to “B” or “C” class they shall be issued their full entitlement.

When special size footwear is ordered for an individual Supply Customer Maintenance MSO014 shall be used to annotate the member’s IA (special instructions) with the special size requirements. Item(s) should be brought on charge using the stock code of the closest size, taking caution to ensure that the total quantity (comprised of current balance, dues-in and special size items) does not exceed the district ROP/ROQ, which in turn could result in redistribution. Each time the individual requires footwear; the IA shall be checked to ascertain when the item was previously issued. Normally, special size footwear shall not be ordered for individuals during their last six months of service.

Special size footwear issued to an individual shall not be withdrawn when the employment justifying its issue ceases. The individual retains the footwear during his entire period of service.

6.  Orthopaedic and modified footwear:

When recommended by a medical board or specialist, individuals with deformed or surgically treated feet shall be provided with specially made or modified footwear in lieu of regulation boots and shoes.

Orthopaedic footwear shall be obtained through a Federal, Provincial or local orthopaedic and prosthetic facility IAW MSI 7000-011 Footwear requiring modification shall be altered as required by the same orthopaedic facility or by local procurement when authorized by the base medical officer, at no expense to the individual.

Special Size Orthopaedic boots and modification to boots are always at no cost to the member.  Special Size Orthopaedic Boots shall be brought on charge by CRV and entered on the individual’s IA.  Only the initial issue of Orthopaedic shoes/oxfords are free issue, procedures are detailed in para 7 of this article. 

Normally orthopaedic footwear shall not be ordered for individuals during their last six months of service.

Orthopaedic footwear obtained as per MSI 7000-011 is paid for by the appropriate Command Surgeon.

7.  Special Size Shoes/Oxfords

Special size shoes/oxfords are free issue upon enrolment.  Following enrolment special size shoe requirements must be purchased using applicable points for shoes/oxfords. If points are not available, member is required to purchase the shoes as per the price indicated using MSO101, option 1, action code “9.”  There are only two exceptions, which allow the free issue of shoes/oxfords following an individual’s enrolment:

The initial issue of shoes/oxfords as a result of a change in medical condition which requires shoes to accommodate orthoses such as arch supports, special insoles etc. The member must present the prescription or medical chit to Clothing Stores to be entitled to the initial free issue. The initial issue is funded by the supporting supply section through Command allotments. All subsequent requirements must be paid for using the applicable points for shoes/oxfords or funded by the member as per the price indicated using MSO101, option 1, action code “9” Clothing Stores must forward details of special size shoe purchases including members name, SN, item purchased to DSSPM email who will have the applicable number of points removed from the members account.

The initial issue of Orthopaedic or modified shoes/oxfords are free issue, and funded by the Command Surgeon. Any subsequent issues must be paid for using the applicable number of points for shoes/oxfords or funded by the member with the price indicated using MSO101 option “9." Orthopaedic footwear is defined at Para 5a. Clothing Stores must forward details of purchase to DSSPM so points can be removed, same procedure as for special size shoes. A copy of the medical officer’s recommendation is to be filed in the individual’s CF 892, and Supply Customer Maintenance MSO014 shall be used to annotate the member’s IA (special instructions) with the appropriate information.

8.  Resoling of MKIII combat boots NSN 8430-21-872-4291

Resoling is limited to the MKIII combat boot only, Medical Specialist Officers and GDMO are the only authority that can prescribe replacement of the insole and outsole components. Funding for the replacement of components is the responsibility of the supporting supply section through their command allotments as per the special funding requirements.

In the event that resoling of the MKIII is prescribed alteration specifications should be coordinated between the Medical Officer and the physiotherapist. NDHQ/DSSPM 2-3 is available to provide technical assistance, as required. 

In the event that resoling is prescribed to alleviate a medical condition diagnosed IAW policies established in MSI 7000-011, the following specifications should be followed:
 

Materiel - Vibram “Sierra” (Model #1276) or Vibram “Kletterlift” (Model #148) outsole with a cushion midsole of polyurethane.

Thickness - The thickness of the polyurethane should be sufficient to maintain the original heel elevation of the boot. It should generally run from approximately 1 inch thick at the heel to a third of an inch - to half an inch at the ball and toe.

9. Orthopaedic furniture. Orthopaedic furniture shall only be procured for individuals whose requirements have been given a prognosis and have been identified on an appropriate certificate signed by a medical doctor or chiropractor. A copy of the medical certificate shall be filed in the member's CF 892.  It is a unit responsibility to fund orthopaedic furniture requirements. Issues of orthopaedic chairs or furniture shall be classified as personal allotments and shall be documented on the individual’s IA special instructions using Supply Customer Maintenance MSO014. Stock number 21AAE4895 shall be used to issue orthopaedic chairs to a member’s IA. 

10.  Retention on posting of special size/orthopaedic clothing, footwear and equipment. When an individual is posted, transferred or seconded to another department the base/station/wing shall ensure that special size/orthopaedic items accompany the individual. In the case of furniture, these items may accompany individuals provided that there is departmental agreement that such transfers are cost beneficial.




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Offline PMedMoe

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #62 on: September 03, 2009, 11:12:54 »
What enviornment are you?

Both the types of footwear and the numbers of each type of footwear you are entitled to change dependant upon enviornment and trade.

For example, sailors are not entitled to any pairs of combat boots. Air/Army aren't entitled to 2 pr sea boots.
Sup Techs, MSE Ops, Engr etc are entitled to 2 pr safety boots as well - Infantry guys to none ...

Whatever the case, whatever you are entitled to for your trade & enviornment in stock-issued footwear ... you are entitled to same (& entitled to same qty of each type as if they were your "issued") in custom/LPOd footwear if the mil pattern do not accomodate your orthotics into them.

I am Army.  Oh, and I forgot, I do have 1 pair of safety boots as required by trade.   ;)
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #63 on: September 03, 2009, 12:28:08 »
I am Army.  Oh, and I forgot, I do have 1 pair of safety boots as required by trade.   ;)

Then you're entitled to

2 pr cbt boots (or GP);
2 pr CWWB; and
1 pr safety boots.

If any of the above do not accomodate your orthotics (chit dated within 2 years), you are entitled to have them LPOd (or custom). You'd still end up entitled to 5 pairs total at the end of the day.

Whether you choose to go to clothing and obtain them however is another matter as you stated below that you had "chosen" not to. Many pers choose not to get the ankle boots or oxfords done as they rarely wear them; depends on your personal sit.
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New virbram sole policy
« Reply #64 on: September 30, 2009, 10:01:40 »
After being told by the doc at the base clinic to go get vibram sole boots, I went to clothing stores, and was told that there is a new policy, I have to bring them both of my Mk IIIs to exchange for one pair of vibram sole. Anyone else got that policy in their LFC or is that just LFQA? I`m going on course soon and would need two pairs.

Offline MCG

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #65 on: October 07, 2009, 17:05:23 »
After being told by the doc at the base clinic to go get vibram sole boots, I went to clothing stores, and was told that there is a new policy, I have to bring them both of my Mk IIIs to exchange for one pair of vibram sole.
1. Health Services cannot prescribe brand-names for footwear.  They may prescribe that your footwear need to have given characteristics which are not found in the issued footwear - in this case the supply system would choose if the best way of achieving the characteristic would be re-soled MkIII, new GP boots, or an alternative LPO product.

2.  If you require special footwear, your entitlement is not reduced as to the number of boots that you should have unless you are a Class A reservist. 

For every boot that you have an entitlement, the CF is responsible to provide you footwear that fit your feet and are medically compatible with you.  If you are not getting this, that ask to speak with a supervisor at clothing stores.  If this fails, have your chain of command engage.  If this still fails to result in a timely resolution, then submit a redress of grievance to your Commanding Officer (who will probably forward it to the CO of your local ASG/ASU as IA).

If you are getting boots in the right quantities for every entitled type that fit and are medically compatible but you just don't like them, then submit a UCR.

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #66 on: October 11, 2009, 10:25:20 »
Thanks for the info. The new GP boots have vibram soles on them and that's what the doc meant when he wrote it on the chit. I actually did have two pairs issued and now waiting to go get sized for orthodics and then see how well they fit. But I did do a BFT in the new boots and they were horrible, my feet were a mess after. I don't know if it was because I didn't have the time to break them in or because they were just a tad longer than a snug fit. Some guys on the BFT wore Magnums which they said they bought only to wear for the 13km. Right now it seems like not a bad idea as I really don't want to go thru the same pain again.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #67 on: October 11, 2009, 10:29:36 »
Thanks for the info. The new GP boots have vibram soles on them and that's what the doc meant when he wrote it on the chit. I actually did have two pairs issued and now waiting to go get sized for orthodics and then see how well they fit. But I did do a BFT in the new boots and they were horrible, my feet were a mess after. I don't know if it was because I didn't have the time to break them in or because they were just a tad longer than a snug fit. Some guys on the BFT wore Magnums which they said they bought only to wear for the 13km. Right now it seems like not a bad idea as I really don't want to go thru the same pain again.

There is a topic on the GP boots (or Mark IV as some like to call them) and how they are comfy slippers when in the office, but cripplers when worn in the Field for long marches.  Even when broken in for a year, they will rip your feet to shreds.
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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #68 on: October 11, 2009, 10:47:39 »
Thanks for the info George. Now I am not sure what to do, I have to have boots with vibram sole for medical reason but the boots destroyed my feet on the march. Should I go back to the doc and ask for a chit for boots that won't screw up my feet like the GP did?

Offline Loachman

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #69 on: October 11, 2009, 11:04:26 »
That could not hurt.

I did the BFT a couple of weeks ago with Magnums and Sole Footbeds. No foot issues at all. I had convinced/helped convince several others to try Magnums as well, and a few more were going to buy some after the BFT.

I did my last BFT two years ago with Mk IIIs and Sole Footbeds, and had to tape my feet to avoid blisters. That was unusual as I never had blister problems before. These were my oldest/comfiest Mk IIIs though, and perhaps a little loose as a result. I bought my Magnums shortly afterwards, mainly because of the atrocious a** f**ce cold wet weather boots.

No sense using forty-year-old boot technology when competitive manufacturers have gone so far beyond that.

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #70 on: October 11, 2009, 11:24:55 »
Though I'm not a doctor, a lot of the BFT issues people have are their boots aren't snug. I've only ever gotten 1 blister from a BFT or ruckmarch, and it was because my socks bunched up on a toe. Friction is a killer, and if your feet are sliding forwards and backwards, or side to side with every step, its a recipe for hamburger feet. If your GP boots don't fit perfectly, try QM and get a snug size (they stretch when broken in). If they can't give you the right size (insist that close enough isn't good enough) and your chit for COTS boots should be good to go.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #71 on: October 11, 2009, 11:36:38 »
Though I'm not a doctor, a lot of the BFT issues people have are their boots aren't snug. I've only ever gotten 1 blister from a BFT or ruckmarch, and it was because my socks bunched up on a toe. Friction is a killer, and if your feet are sliding forwards and backwards, or side to side with every step, its a recipe for hamburger feet. If your GP boots don't fit perfectly, try QM and get a snug size (they stretch when broken in). If they can't give you the right size (insist that close enough isn't good enough) and your chit for COTS boots should be good to go.

The hard leather cup in the heel is a killer.  Blisters on top of feet as well as bottoms.  These are fairly serious problems for a boot to have.  I have had Mk I, Mk II, and Mk III boots over the years, with very few problems with blisters, other than Nijmegen.  The GP boots ended that trend.  My feet were butchered. 


[Edit to add:  And that was in the days when we had to do the 2 X 10 mile, later the 2 X 13 km.]
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 11:43:53 by George Wallace »
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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #72 on: October 11, 2009, 11:40:16 »
Though I'm not a doctor, a lot of the BFT issues people have are their boots aren't snug. I've only ever gotten 1 blister from a BFT or ruckmarch, and it was because my socks bunched up on a toe. Friction is a killer, and if your feet are sliding forwards and backwards, or side to side with every step, its a recipe for hamburger feet. If your GP boots don't fit perfectly, try QM and get a snug size (they stretch when broken in). If they can't give you the right size (insist that close enough isn't good enough) and your chit for COTS boots should be good to go.

Just going to hazard a guess , but I'll bet most everyone here already knows how to suck eggs.

But thanks anyway.
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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #73 on: October 11, 2009, 11:54:05 »
If I still had my MK3s I doubt I would have had the same problems. I do know my feet moved a little bit inside but it didn't cause a lot of problems. The boot is a tad on the heavy side, which gave me shin splints for the first km or so so until I slowed down a bit, which translated into more muscle fatigue on my legs, which I never had with the lighter MK3s. I also noticed the area near the big toe on the left boot is pretty tight which is why the toenail on my toe is a shade of blue-red. I only got 1 blister on the whole walk so it wasn't really the friction as much as the boots themselves.

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Re: BOOT REGULATIONS: issued vs. non-issued vs. non-standard boots
« Reply #74 on: October 11, 2009, 14:09:09 »
Many years ago, I started carving off the "corners" of the heel on new combat boots to round them and reduce the camming action of the foot coming down and rotating. No shin splints since. The Magnums already have rounded heels.