Author Topic: Why Did/Are You Joining the Armed Forces??  (Read 107827 times)

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c4th

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2005, 15:39:23 »
in all honesty, I'm not sure I would anymore.

What are the alternatives?  Generally speaking we work with interesting, intelligent, fit people.  Our employer spends lots of cash to train us in both the technical and management (in civvy speak) aspects of our jobs. 

Outside of Fire Rescue and Police where you pay for your own basic training, I would be surprised if any employer spends 1/10th on it's people that the CF spends.  But then this is not just a job.  Maybe that is the appeal to us who join and stay.  If you're bored and working for idiots (and I hope you're not), trust me, ninety-ninety times out of a hundred it's no better on civvy street punching the same card and working for the same chinless mouth breather year after year.

That's my 25 cents.


Offline paracowboy

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #51 on: June 17, 2005, 23:37:45 »
What are the alternatives?  
has nothing to do with my CoC, until we get to the 'Leadership' at the Nat'l level, and the apathetic sheeple who keep them there. My dissatifaction is entirely with working for people with no honour, who insist on referring to me by the demeaning term "Peacekeeper".

But, this is an irrelevent aside to the topic.
...time to cull the herd.

Offline GO!!!

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #52 on: June 19, 2005, 01:22:00 »
has nothing to do with my CoC, until we get to the 'Leadership' at the Nat'l level, and the apathetic sheeple who keep them there. My dissatifaction is entirely with working for people with no honour, who insist on referring to me by the demeaning term "Peacekeeper".

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Offline TCBF

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2005, 18:47:06 »
I correct the ill-informed by telling them that my occupation is 'Soldier', and that peacekeeping is a task, like sh_thole digging.  I also tell them I no more want to be called a peacekeeper than I do a sh_thole digger.  I want to be called a Soldier.

When pushed, I will admit that, at least with sh_thole digging, I accomplished a practical, well defined  mission in a timely and cost effective manner, with the added benefit of having the immediate gratification that comes with the sense of a job well done.  I cannot say the same about peacekeeping.

Tom
"Disarming the Canadian public is part of the new humanitarian social agenda."   - Foreign Affairs Minister Lloyd Axeworthy at a Gun Control conference in Oslo, Norway in 1998.


"I didn’t feel that it was an act of violence; you know, I felt that it was an act of liberation, that’s how I felt you know." - Ann Hansen, Canadian 'Urban Guerrilla'(one of the "Squamish Five")

Offline mainerjohnthomas

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2005, 21:01:27 »
I correct the ill-informed by telling them that my occupation is 'Soldier', and that peacekeeping is a task, like sh_thole digging.   I also tell them I no more want to be called a peacekeeper than I do a sh_thole digger.   I want to be called a Soldier.

When pushed, I will admit that, at least with sh_thole digging, I accomplished a practical, well defined   mission in a timely and cost effective manner, with the added benefit of having the immediate gratification that comes with the sense of a job well done.   I cannot say the same about peacekeeping.

Tom
     My eldest daughter came home from school one day in tears because she beleived I had lied to her.  She had thought that I was a soldier, but had been told by her teacher that we had "Peacekeepers" and didn't fight or shoot guns. We are soldiers, what we train to do is called war.  Sometimes we are sent to risk our lives to keep a "peace" that rarely exists, and try to carve our a little pocket of civilization that we protect with our guns until some politician declares the "peace" complete, and calls us home.  Sometimes we go to war, and leave a real peace behind when we leave. Soldier has become a dirty word, "Peacekeeper" implies looking stern, and shaking an admonishing finger, not patrols with LAV's and rifle platoons.  Soldier has always been a dirty word, and the last war was always the war to end all wars, until the next one comes.
When cowards run from death, it is life they escape.

badger4

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2005, 23:08:44 »
hey guys, i have to agree with "go".   HARD CHARGERS!! I think that the world has changed drasticaly since 9/11, hence the war on terror and I think that young fellas want to be a part of that, but as facing a new enemy means new tactics and  also more unconventional means to bring the enemy down.  I bet if you asked or surveyed some youg fellas about what they would love to do in the army the most, the hard chargers would probably say JTF2. 

So why doesn't Canada try some sort of direct recruiting scheme for civies to provide them with an avenue into your special forces unit?  I live out here in Australia, and I came out here, because canada didn't offer anything good for the hard chargers, or the war on terror for civies who want a piece of the action if they got the goods.  worked for me, thats my opinion.

would have loved to stay in canada if something like that was available.

Offline ParaMedTech

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2005, 23:45:13 »
I'd have to throw in with Paracowboy and Go on this one.  If I was looking to start a military career now, I'd be thinking long and hard before I signed on the dotted line with the current state of things.

I've even been watching the CDS and the Chief of Cadets & Reserves on CPAC trying to find a reason to stay in any capacity, and once you get past the verbosity there's nothing really new in the pipeline, until the PMO and Cabinet get their priorities in order, which doesn't seem to be in the cards anytime soon.
Carter, hand me my thinking grenades.

Offline GO!!!

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #57 on: June 21, 2005, 08:44:57 »
So why doesn't Canada try some sort of direct recruiting scheme for civies to provide them with an avenue into your special forces unit?   I live out here in Australia, and I came out here, because canada didn't offer anything good for the hard chargers, or the war on terror for civies who want a piece of the action if they got the goods.   worked for me, thats my opinion.

would have loved to stay in canada if something like that was available.

There is an avenue for civvies into the JTF. Join the regs, for a few yrs (or the reserves for longer) and apply like everyone else. No country of note allows civvies to apply directly to military SF units. If one truly has "the goods" it should'nt be that big a deal. ;)
No leader was ever hated for being too hard, but a great many were for attempting to appear that way.

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #58 on: June 21, 2005, 09:04:57 »
Opportunities, pride, adventure (it's still there you just have to work a little harder to find it.)

The CF is what 'we' all make it.  The politicians and senior leaders provide (or not) the resources to do things, how we go about those things is a team effort that cannot be equalled in civilian life.  Unlimited liability has taken on a new meaning over the last few years for both civilian and military folks (fueled by the nightly news.)  I have been in for more than 20 years - has the CF changed - yes,in many ways and not all bad.

It is great to be part of a volunteer force, it is just that you volunteer to join - what you do and how long you stay may seem beyond your control.  Unfortunately, when you are paid to do volunteer work that may result in risk or even death, someone has take the responsibility for making life and death decisions.  If you want control then the CF may not be for you.  If you want to make difference in other people's lives daily then visit your local recruiting centre.  You may volunteer, but a country not at war is able to pick and choose who it 'needs' or "wants" to fill its vacancies.

Joined twice, now in second military occupation, had my education (Honours degree) paid for, used close to 500 paid holidays and earned over a million dollars so far (yes, I know the government took close to half back) - lived in Europe for 3 years with Foreign Service pay, visited all 10 provinces ( and lived in five so far), and souvenir-hunted in 10 European countries - not a bad for volunteer work.

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Offline IT_Dude_Joeschmo

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #59 on: June 21, 2005, 09:38:43 »
I joined for many reasons, but mainly it's because I wanted to be a soldier. Everyday I go to work, play, whatever, I look at our privileged society and people and think; "Who will protect them and our way of life?"... I don't understand who WOULDN'T want to protect our people and our land and nation. I want to kill our nation's enemies and see the field of battle soaked red in anyone's blood who threatens Canada. Do I really want to go to war? NO! Will I if I ever have to. You bet your a$$ I will. Someone's got to do it! I wouldn't be able to stand-by and watch anything happen to our country, I'd have to be there.

I've wanted to join the Forces since... I think as far back I can remember, some of my friends joke around and say I was brain-washed by G.I. Joe, I say nope, that's American... I wanted to be a Canadian Soldier. A defender of our nation and people.

I love Canada, and I told the recruiter that. Nothing more, nothing less. I promised my blood, sweat and tears and I'll give them. If an enemy of Canada wants a pound of Her flesh, he'll have to eat through all 185lbs of this flesh first!  :threat:

As I've gotten older and settled down a bit (Engaged to my fiance, been together 4yrs this Sept), thought about things more, I've also decided I'll try for the civvy world first and try to become a police officer. To me, the reasons are the same. I'd be protecting our people (albeit from our people) and our way of life still. I'm a reservist at the moment and still have yet to pass the rest of my SQ (1/2 done) and BIQ this summer, but my mindset remains the same.

With everything that's wrong with Canada (hehe, image a thread about that!), there is so much that is great and cannot be ignored.

 I'll be there to protect it.

 :salute:
« Last Edit: June 21, 2005, 12:44:06 by R031 Pte Joe »
"When I retire, I want to become a gay Hollywood actor, they always make more money!"... My old boss's plans ;)

c4th

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #60 on: June 21, 2005, 09:53:36 »
If I was looking to start a military career now, I'd be thinking long and hard before I signed on the dotted line with the current state of things.

And you joined in the good time that quickly went to crap in the 90's.  Was that 4 or 6 years of pay freezes?  Looks to me that the current state of things is allot better than it was 5 years ago. Worrying about situation CDS or cabinet is a sure fire way to be frustrated.  Effecting DND or National policy can be done by the odd lucky strategic cpl but deliberately aiming for that role will probably only land you in jail.

The Canadian public is only the consumer of national defense and fortunately, most of the Canadian economy has its foundation in the stupidity of the consumer.  GO! and paracowboy, you are not alone.  In my experience, the only people who don't think their customers are idiots are the unemployed. 

Offline ParaMedTech

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #61 on: June 21, 2005, 11:03:49 »
At 17 I wasn't really aware of, or worried about, issues like force protection, the moral compass of our leadership, political factors affecting our deployments overseas, rust-out of our fleets, foreign penetration of our intelligence apparatus, corruption in parliament, public apathy.  Come on, Chretien wasn't even 60 yet when I walked into CFRC.   ::)

I also didn't know our annual training plan would be the exact same things year after year after year, the majority of the patients I'd see who were really sick would be mental health issues, the massive discrepancies and infighting between reg and res existed.  I naively assumed that if you  REALLY needed a piece of equipment to do your job, the CF would provide it, that support and rehab would be there if I was injured, that DVA had the service members best interests at heart, that promotion and course loading was based on merit.

We (Canada) also still had a voice in international affairs, we were still a valued member of NORAD and NATO, we had the respect of our allies.  We had forces in the FRY, but Medak hadn't happened yet, we had a BG in Somalia that hadn't tarnished our professional reputation there.

The International Criminal Court didn't exist, meaning a CF member couldn't be tried by a foreign, civilian court for actions taken in a theater of operations.

We live in a very different environment, security-wise, then we did 13 years ago.  And the money wasn't even an issue, freeze or no freeze.

DF
Carter, hand me my thinking grenades.

Offline TCBF

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #62 on: June 22, 2005, 00:00:07 »
"In my experience, the only people who don't think their customers are idiots are the unemployed."- C4th

- You should stick your real name on that, and put it in the quotes.  It's pretty good.

Tom
"Disarming the Canadian public is part of the new humanitarian social agenda."   - Foreign Affairs Minister Lloyd Axeworthy at a Gun Control conference in Oslo, Norway in 1998.


"I didn’t feel that it was an act of violence; you know, I felt that it was an act of liberation, that’s how I felt you know." - Ann Hansen, Canadian 'Urban Guerrilla'(one of the "Squamish Five")

badger4

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #63 on: June 22, 2005, 01:06:18 »
There is an avenue for civvies into the JTF. Join the regs, for a few yrs (or the reserves for longer) and apply like everyone else. No country of note allows civvies to apply directly to military SF units. If one truly has "the goods" it should'nt be that big a deal. ;)

"GO," I see what you are saying as I once believed that as well, but actualy a country of quite note, Australia, DOES allow civvies to apply directly to military SF units, as I was once a civvie myself.  However, I left canada to move to australia because of this very reason and am now a fully qualified operator in an australian SF unit and I love every minute of my work.  Check out this website bro,-- ausspecialforces.com, when it comes up, scroll down to Special Forces Direct recruiting Scheme (SFDRS) and click, have a read, i think that you shall find it interesting and also why every man and his dog is now showing up on the doorsteps of every recruiter in aus.

Offline paracowboy

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #64 on: June 22, 2005, 08:24:28 »
"GO," I see what you are saying as I once believed that as well, but actualy a country of quite note, Australia, DOES allow civvies to apply directly to military SF units, as I was once a civvie myself.   However, I left canada to move to australia because of this very reason and am now a fully qualified operator in an australian SF unit and I love every minute of my work.   Check out this website bro,-- ausspecialforces.com, when it comes up, scroll down to Special Forces Direct recruiting Scheme (SFDRS) and click, have a read, i think that you shall find it interesting and also why every man and his dog is now showing up on the doorsteps of every recruiter in aus.
further, the US has the 18X program, which is a pipleline straight from civvie-street to SF.
...time to cull the herd.

Offline IT_Dude_Joeschmo

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #65 on: June 22, 2005, 08:36:30 »
I've seen this sort of thing before, going straight from civvy to SF groups... I don't think it's great, but I suppose if they need people that quickly/bad it's a good idea. I think having someone do it the regular conventional forces way first is best. Then by the time they apply to any SF service they're already a soldier, already versed in the military and it's ways and you won't have as high a drop out rate during SF training and selection I would hope!

I can't back that up because I really don't know but it seems a logical train of thought to me...

In Canada, we really only have 1 elite SF group ofcourse, and there aren't many positions in it when you look at the broad scale of things. Say all over Canada, each year, 1000 applicants to JTF2... They just expanded it by like 500 people so I imagine that brings the force to about 1000 or so (again, don't know for sure, does anyone???). So say with turnover etc, each year there are 300 openings... THAT is quite competitive indeed... I bet more people apply than that too...

Canada simply needs to recruit better people, as you've all said. Aim it at the proper people, people who have a sense of adventure and like a rugged an painfully-honest atmosphere. Not the person who says, "Oh wow, what a job that'll be! I get that much money and the CF is that culturally diverse as well!!! Wow, I'll make more friends than ever and we can all watch the Care-Bears!!!"....  ::)

Well, it's fine if you join for money and friends only, but... I think we get the idea.

We need the young, strong adventurous type.
"When I retire, I want to become a gay Hollywood actor, they always make more money!"... My old boss's plans ;)

c4th

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #66 on: June 22, 2005, 08:57:44 »
I've seen this sort of thing before, going straight from civvy to SF groups...

When?

Offline Simian Turner

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #67 on: June 22, 2005, 16:37:57 »
Young is no longer part of the picture either.  Able-bodied a with patience, and a flexible, adaptable mind.

It is less likely to stand in line like the "old days", it more likely to find the desk unoccupied or the door with sign stating "Closed, please call again."

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Offline Gubb

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #68 on: June 22, 2005, 20:16:37 »


  I'm pretty sure that the SAS allow direct entry for Civilians.  I could be wrong but do believe I watched a documentry on it, might be possible to dig it up.
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aesop081

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #69 on: June 22, 2005, 21:16:39 »
I've seen this sort of thing before, going straight from civvy to SF groups...

Where did you see that ?  You joined the army yesterday so it has me wondering.......

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #70 on: June 22, 2005, 21:26:01 »
Simple, put the CD-Rom in and voila.......
IF YOU REALLY ENJOY THIS SITE AND WISH TO CONTINUE,THEN PLEASE WIGGLE UP TO THE BAR AND BUY A SUBSCRIPTION OR SOME SWAG FROM THE MILNET.CA STORE OR IF YOU WISH TO ADVERTISE PLEASE SEND MIKE SOME DETAILS.

Everybody has a game plan until they get punched in the mouth.

aesop081

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #71 on: June 22, 2005, 21:42:07 »
Simple, put the CD-Rom in and voila.......

what was i thinking........

Offline IT_Dude_Joeschmo

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #72 on: June 22, 2005, 22:06:55 »
what was i thinking........

All I meant, you old nit-pickers, was that I've heard of it before. Other services, NOT Canadian. One example is Norway I believe also, a guy I used to MSN with said he was going for some type of SF force they have, but he had university degree and previous military srvc (only 2 yrs). Not sure also if he was blowing smoke up my a$$ either.

As I stated before, I don't think it's a good idea... Just my opinion.

Oh wait, it doesn't matter, I've only been in since yesterday...

U guys having been in for awhile I suppose know everything... Darn! Even who I have and haven't talked to, and what I do and don't know or have heard and/or seen! Damn! I'll catch U guys yet with a surprise!

 ::)

U folks need to relax.

PS> Sorry if I jumped the gun but certain people on this web forum always seem to jump down others' throats for silly things.
"When I retire, I want to become a gay Hollywood actor, they always make more money!"... My old boss's plans ;)

Offline GO!!!

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #73 on: June 22, 2005, 22:33:58 »
Jumping down peoples throats for talking out of their a$$es - as you so eloquently put it.

In addition to this, if you have'nt doe any military trg, and are only joining this summer - how could you possibly KNOW what type of person the army needs, or what you could expect to encounter?

Also, the best place for misinformation/bad info, is "this guy I know..." if you can't annotate it with a proper footnote (or at least some substantiation, personal experience or otherwise) its probably bull.

As you saw earlier in the thread, I demonstrated my own ignorance of SF recruiting schemes.

In the army, believe 10% of what you hear, 50% of what you see, and 100% of what is handed to you in black and white.

Good luck this summer.
No leader was ever hated for being too hard, but a great many were for attempting to appear that way.

Offline Simian Turner

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Re: Why would you join the CF?
« Reply #74 on: June 22, 2005, 23:26:12 »
Tolerance, tolerance on both sides would help.  Where is Trinity when we need him? This site and forums has grown through a lot of tolerance.  It is nicer to disagree than to attack.  Sure, it is easier to unload than to keep quiet. 

I used to visit Mike's small page in the 90's when it was much smaller and so were our computers.  He had DND senior folks very interested, in fact I remember a time when it was rumored that the Inspector General's staff liked to take a peak at what Mike and friends were jabbering about. Remember those days - Mike, "old nit pickers", anyone.

I really like that many posters use IMHO, perhaps we could use IHIFASFIT (I heard it from a sober friend I trust), IHIFSG (I heard it from some guy) or maybe IMHDI (I may have dreamt it) in the same manner as IMHO to avoid nonsense detectors with different calibration settings from going off.

I'm sure there is mutually satisfactory Spec Fce SME, or a reliable source on this site, on the web or in the library or lastly maybe in my/your dreams tonight a drunken fairy might fart some crap in my/your ear that we can share with each other tomorrow. Good night.zzzz
The grand essentials of happiness: something to do, something to love, something to hope for.  Allan K. Chalmers