Author Topic: Cadpat Overboard?  (Read 43858 times)

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Offline fasdfasdfasdf

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Cadpat Overboard?
« on: November 27, 2005, 17:33:12 »
I recently heard about the new cadpat boots that they're working on, as well as a cadpat blanket and other such things. It got me wondering whether the cadpatting might be going a little far. At what point do we need to stop trying to cadpat things? It seems like the Canadian Forces is really proud of their Cadpat and wants to find a good reason to put it on all the gear that they can. Would you rather the CF save the money from cadpatting for other things? What do you think?

Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2005, 17:39:32 »
well, it would seem to make sense that if everything you own is cam pattern, it would all blend together, and break up the silhouette, no?  Pretty pointless to have everything cadpat, and shiny BLACK (an unnatural colour, by the way) boots.
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Offline fasdfasdfasdf

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2005, 17:45:56 »
couldn't you say the same for your weapon? where's my cadpat C7?
How clean are people's boots in the field? Muddy and dusty black boots might be just as good cam as cadpat boots. Especially since your boots are the lowest thing to the ground and likely not paticularly visible anyways.
as for silhouette... the human shape won't change, it's just the enemy might have a hard time telling you're hands from your pants.

Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2005, 17:52:37 »
No, the shape won't change.  The ability of the human eye to register a defined shape is hindered by a disruptive pattern.  And, you're correct, CADPAT furniture on the weapon makes sense, so I guess we haven't gone overboard yet, have we?
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

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Offline KevinB

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2005, 18:06:30 »
Paint... changes the rifle's colour and texture.

 Boots -- mud and dust (they aint black long)

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Offline ab22vp

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2005, 18:13:16 »
As for weapons, the new C7 is already two colors, namely green and black. As for me, I don't think there is such a thing as too much cadpat. No it won't stop bullets but ,IN THE FIELD, every litle things count. Now if they can figure out how to apply it on vehicles...

Offline MCG

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2005, 19:55:50 »
I recently heard about the new cadpat boots that they're working on, as well as a cadpat blanket and other such things. It got me wondering whether the cadpatting might be going a little far. At what point do we need to stop trying to cadpat things?
Much discussion has gone on WRT the boots and new sleeping bag/poncho liner in other threads.  So I won't say more about these specific items except that the blanket is already out there and I believe the CADPAT boot idea is dead (if not, it should be).

However, generally when old kit is being replaced by newer kit, it only makes sense that the new kit incorporate our current disruptive pattern.  There are other less talked about items of "old" kit which are issued new in CADPAT (the Bivy Bag, the wet weather gloves) but in being exactly the same as the items they replace (less the colour), I have yet to see any exchange program to replace the olive items that most soldiers have.


Offline Guy. E

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2005, 16:55:39 »
how would you polish or keep up your cadpat boots? like a tube of tooth paste with 3 different colours?

seriousley now: if they relay wanted cadpat boots, they would make cadpat garters (sp) to wrap around em and wash as necessary when dirty.

Offline Infantry_

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2005, 16:58:09 »
how would you polish or keep up your cadpat boots? like a tube of tooth paste with 3 different colours?

seriousley now: if they relay wanted cadpat boots, they would make cadpat garters (sp) to wrap around em and wash as necessary when dirty.

The polish would have been like the wet weather boot (gortex) polish
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Offline soldiers301

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2005, 17:11:50 »
Everything was green before we get CADPAT, so why not get it all in CADPAT ?

CADPAT Weapon was on plan a couple of months ago, but the colour faded out every 2 days, so the green plastic furniture of the C7A2 won.
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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2005, 17:16:51 »
For the weapons, one of the main things needed is a kill flash for the C79(and any other optics) IMO.

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2005, 17:37:02 »
For the weapons, one of the main things needed is a kill flash for the C79(and any other optics) IMO.

Highly over rated -- the honeycomb decrease light transmision - to a point you use a lot of available light in the dusk/dawn periods.

 The C79 and C79A2 being a POS that it is - we'd be better off instead of wasting money on a killflash getting a new optic.


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Offline fasdfasdfasdf

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2005, 16:48:52 »
As for weapons, the new C7 is already two colors, namely green and black. As for me, I don't think there is such a thing as too much cadpat. No it won't stop bullets but ,IN THE FIELD, every litle things count. Now if they can figure out how to apply it on vehicles...

http://www.gizmag.com/go/4813/1/

Something "like" this might be an option for vehicles... Or just stencils and spray paint.

Offline HighlandIslander

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2005, 16:59:44 »
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4813/1/

Something "like" this might be an option for vehicles... Or just stencils and spray paint.

It's an interesting idea, but I don't think a fleet of leopard-print LAV-IIIs will cut it...

In all seriousness, though, I think the CF's priority is getting individual soldiers' cam up to grade, not vehicles.

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2005, 17:11:35 »
Highly over rated -- the honeycomb decrease light transmision - to a point you use a lot of available light in the dusk/dawn periods.

 The C79 and C79A2 being a POS that it is - we'd be better off instead of wasting money on a killflash getting a new optic.


Yea, a better optic than the C79/C79A2 would be great, but I highly doubt there gonna replace them anytime soon, especially now that they've bought XX amount of C79A2s.



As for the CADPAT vehicles, I dunno how practical they would be. The current OD an woodland style paint patterns are good enough IMO. You could have the best CADPAT camo pattern on a Leopard,LAV,  ML, etc but, gonna be pretty easy to spot once it starts moving, plus all the noise. When your in a hide, the Cam Nets, etc work good enough IMO.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2005, 17:15:29 by MikeL »

Offline fasdfasdfasdf

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2005, 20:36:10 »
In terms of cadpatting vehicles I see more of an advantage if it is providing cover for infantry. At a certain distance a soldier in cadpat would be indistinguishable from a cadpatted vehicle.

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2005, 22:02:12 »
At a certain distance a soldier in cadpat would be indistinguishable from a cadpatted vehicle.

That's true, but once you get closer it becomes easier to distinguish a flat surface (like the side of a vehicle) from a textured surface (like a soldier). Cam netting works better from all distances.

Offline 0tto Destruct

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2005, 14:09:22 »
In terms of cadpatting vehicles I see more of an advantage if it is providing cover for infantry. At a certain distance a soldier in cadpat would be indistinguishable from a cadpatted vehicle.

Interesting idea synthos, but would it really do much good since the guys would be in the vehicle anyway?

BTW, I think what you're talking about is concealment, versus cover. Someone with a combat arms/signals background can probably speak more authortatively on this, but I would think that in terms of concealment of vehicles a cam net would be more effective than a CADPAT paint job any day. (urban ops notwithstanding)

Offline fasdfasdfasdf

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2005, 14:23:41 »
yeah but a can a cam net be used in combat? I think it's mostly for stationary vehicles right?

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2005, 14:46:21 »
couldn't you say the same for your weapon? where's my cadpat C7?
How clean are people's boots in the field? Muddy and dusty black boots might be just as good cam as cadpat boots. Especially since your boots are the lowest thing to the ground and likely not paticularly visible anyways.
as for silhouette... the human shape won't change, it's just the enemy might have a hard time telling you're hands from your pants.

Welcome to the cam-pattern world. Here everything is AUSCAM, and they are even trialing AUSCAM'd weapons. We have t-shirts, poncho liners, hats, webbing, shelter halves, FMP covers, sleeping bags, and even cooking aprons. You name it (even watch bands and wallets).

As per the UK's DPM, USA's MARPAT, Woodland, and ACU. Thats just the tip of the cam-ptrn iceberg.

Canada's CADPAT is new, so get used to it, because there is the ARID stuff too, which repeats the cycle again, just like the AUSCAM desert DPDU.

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Offline 0tto Destruct

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2005, 15:10:51 »
yeah but a can a cam net be used in combat? I think it's mostly for stationary vehicles right?

Yup...I hear they did trials in Valcartier on the use of cam nets on mobile vehicles, but they had issues with the poles & cam spreaders staying in place.


Offline Bomber

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2005, 22:34:43 »
GM Covers makes a kit that was displayed at CANSEC last year, and will probably be there this year.  All the cam is in panels and is buttoned and fixed onto the vehicle.  It was a co-op effort with the pers cam net people, and looked amazing.  I know the Cam guys at the office were looking into it.  It is really friggin effective, cause it is vehicle specific, but breaks up the shap incredibly.

http://www.gmacover.com/

The only picture I see online is the hummer on thier main page.

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2005, 22:48:59 »
The idea behind camnets is to break up your sillhouette as well as provide cover from observation... from a far enough distance, and assuming it's well placed, it'll hide the vehicle, but under direct observation, the advantage of camnets is that it hides what's under the net... in theory, you could hide the nature of what's being hidden, such that your enemy doesn't know if it's say, a tank, a radio truck, or a dummy posistion (An empty space with a cam net over it).

I can't see a cam net that hugs the body of the vehicle serving any real purpose, except to break up texture, I can really see it being a hinderance more then an asset on a vehicle that's moving/loading and off-loading troops (Ever get caught in a cam net? Then you know what I mean).

That being said, purpose built cam nets/fixing points for windows would be lovely, but hessian is reasonably quick, and having a stock of hessian on hand is useful, because it's mulit-purpose.
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Offline MCG

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2005, 17:00:45 »
I can't see a cam net that hugs the body of the vehicle serving any real purpose, except to break up texture,
Texture is one of the reasons that things are seen.  I've seen photo's of Australian Leopards in this type of cam-net.


Offline George Wallace

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Re: Cadpat Overboard?
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2005, 17:07:43 »
I have to agree with MCG.  In the early Eighties, we bolted Cam Nets to our Lynx's, and cut out the hatch openings, for a Recce Competition and you would be surprised at how different the veh looked.  It really did a lot to change the Recognition Features and helped it blend in to its surroundings while on patrol.
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