Author Topic: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo  (Read 4383 times)

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Offline Ashkan08

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Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2018, 13:14:04 »
Makes sense. Thanks

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2018, 17:23:09 »
They didn't.

The term gunner came into use a very long time ago, shortly after "guns" were invented and came into service with armies across the world.

Within the British military, the term "gunner" was not only a descriptive term for all artillerymen but also a rank equivalent to private.

Within the Canadian artillery the trade to which gunners belonged was called "artilleryman" well before females were permitted to serve in the combat arms. Once females were permitted to serve the term "artillery soldier" came into use in our advertising campaigns. Within the trade, we have always and continuously referred to ourselves as "gunners". IMHO the term "artillery soldier" (like "armoured soldier" and "infantry soldier") always sounded stilted and contrived. The change in our advertising to the term "gunner" is in my view a good choice because 1) it gets back to the use of a traditional term rather than a made-up one and 2) is nonetheless gender neutral.

While I don't have details as to how the change came about, I would suspect that there has been an ongoing campaign by the Colonel Commandant and the Director of Artillery and various other senior serving and honourary artillery officers to influence the system to adopt the change.

 :cheers:

So ... like.... we Infantry people can still call you Artillery people 'Drop Shorts', right? ;)
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Offline FJAG

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Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2018, 17:46:22 »
So ... like.... we Infantry people can still call you Artillery people 'Drop Shorts', right? ;)

Not if you want to have free beer at my barbecue.  ;D

And I say that notwithstanding that my battery once dropped a round 50 metres away from where I was forming up for an assault with my supported 3 RCR company on an exercise in Petawawa once.  [:'(

What was even more troubling was that when I had the gun position look into what happened the GPO came back with the message "It looked good when it left here!"  [:D

 :cheers:
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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2018, 18:16:34 »
So ... like.... we Infantry people can still call you Artillery people 'Drop Shorts', right? ;)

I thought that was a navy expression, usually followed by bending someone over.
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Offline medicineman

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Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2018, 08:03:16 »
I thought that was a navy expression, usually followed by bending someone over.


Was thinking the same thing... 8)

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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2018, 10:08:39 »
Not if you want to have free beer at my barbecue.  ;D

And I say that notwithstanding that my battery once dropped a round 50 metres away from where I was forming up for an assault with my supported 3 RCR company on an exercise in Petawawa once.  [:'(

What was even more troubling was that when I had the gun position look into what happened the GPO came back with the message "It looked good when it left here!"  [:D

 :cheers:

:warstory:  Ah yes...shades of the early 90s when 2 Guns dropped a few rounds of 105 into a formation of helos landing in DZ ANZIO  :o ...again, GPO-induced issues.  I was elsewhere in the range at the time, but to hear the FEs described how they were trying to keep the inserted troops from climbing back onto the Hueys while the formation was scattering away from what they thought was another round of fire inbound, was pretty colourful.  I don't think the gunners were very popular that day...

Regards
G2G

Offline Old Sweat

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Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2018, 10:17:49 »
That reminds me of the classic response to a too close round, "Reference my a..hole, Add 800, over."

Offline FJAG

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Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2018, 13:47:50 »
:warstory:  Ah yes...shades of the early 90s when 2 Guns dropped a few rounds of 105 into a formation of helos landing in DZ ANZIO  :o ...again, GPO-induced issues.  I was elsewhere in the range at the time, but to hear the FEs described how they were trying to keep the inserted troops from climbing back onto the Hueys while the formation was scattering away from what they thought was another round of fire inbound, was pretty colourful.  I don't think the gunners were very popular that day...

Regards
G2G

In my case actually, the problem was on the gun--an L5--with the angle of sight scale off by 100 mils.

The GPO's problem was that it was winter and he didn't want to get out of his heated M577 so he simply asked the gun line to confirm their bearing and elevation settings and confirm charge fired. They reported back with the right data. After my expletive loaded reply to his message he finally got his butt out of the track and found the AS error. (Not a bad guy otherwise and the last I saw he'd made it to LCol)

 :cheers:
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Offline Old Sweat

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Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2018, 13:52:54 »
My gut reaction when you wrote "a round" that it probably was an error on the gun. Should not the section commander or the safety officer have spotted it, as the elevation would have been noticeably different?

The incident G2G reported, on the other hand, sounds like a CP error, either in timing and/or execution of the fire plan, or a technical error.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2018, 19:23:58 »
In my case actually, the problem was on the gun--an L5--with the angle of sight scale off by 100 mils.

The GPO's problem was that it was winter and he didn't want to get out of his heated M577 so he simply asked the gun line to confirm their bearing and elevation settings and confirm charge fired. They reported back with the right data. After my expletive loaded reply to his message he finally got his butt out of the track and found the AS error. (Not a bad guy otherwise and the last I saw he'd made it to LCol)

 :cheers:

That's why it helps to always owe Gunners some money, then they'll usually try to make sure you're around to repay it :)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline FJAG

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Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #35 on: August 18, 2018, 19:36:00 »
My gut reaction when you wrote "a round" that it probably was an error on the gun. Should not the section commander or the safety officer have spotted it, as the elevation would have been noticeably different?

The incident G2G reported, on the other hand, sounds like a CP error, either in timing and/or execution of the fire plan, or a technical error.

Yup. It was in fire for effect with one drop short and the remaining rounds bang on the target - remember that old dug-in Khe San style fire base at Race Horse - that was it, we were strung out in the tree line to the south getting ready to do a banzai charge up the hill.

And yes, the safety officer and the section commander should both have caught it.

 :cheers:
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #36 on: August 18, 2018, 22:22:21 »
Having fired a winger myself, I not be tarring anyone with a brush. Laid onto the wrong set of Aiming posts (tight gun position) still all my fault as the Number 1

Offline FJAG

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Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2018, 22:55:19 »
Not sure how this developed into a winger discussion but for Daftandbarmy's info guns can also "drop long".

In Petawawa, again, we had a Militia battery where the battery had just finished a mission firing charge three and were given an end of mission. Contrary to proper procedures the 2i/c (who looks after and prepares ammo) on one gun had left some five rounds on the ready tray made up to charge three and one made up to charge seven. A new mission at charge three was called and the detachment took post. The loading gun number took the charge seven round and the spare charge 4,5,6 and 7 powder bags from the adjacent round to the number 1, reported "charge 3". The number 1 took the four spare bags as per drill, said "Correct, Load" and then wondered why his gun had such a large recoil.  :facepalm:

The round overshot the target and for good measure, overshot the impact area and the Petawawa river and landed 35 meters from a cottage occupied by two families. Very fortunately there were no injuries although there was shrapnel damage to a boat and stone fireplace on the cottage shifted due to the blast.

 :cheers:
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2018, 00:16:37 »
My gut reaction when you wrote "a round" that it probably was an error on the gun. Should not the section commander or the safety officer have spotted it, as the elevation would have been noticeably different?

The incident G2G reported, on the other hand, sounds like a CP error, either in timing and/or execution of the fire plan, or a technical error.

I was in 2 RCHA at that time. It was absolutely a CPO error. He did not make the target numbers unsafe when the assault force crossed one of the control lines and landed on the LZ and continued to FFE. It got worse when the FOO, the BC and the CO all yelled "check firing" simultaneously on the net when they saw what was happening, which had the effect of everyone jamming the frequency. Which allowed the mayhem to continue for several more seconds. What saved the assault force that was the swampy ground. The rounds were impacting in amongst the the Twin Hueys quite nicely, but they didn't really do too much damage. The Royals (1 RCR, I think) were trying to scramble back on the helos as quick as FEs were trying were trying to throw them off, so they could get the helicopters out from under the full fury of D  Bty. In hindsight, it was humorous because no one got hurt. But it could have wiped out most of a company and all of 427 Sqn, had things gone a different direction.

Offline FJAG

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Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2018, 01:12:32 »
I was in 2 RCHA at that time. It was absolutely a CPO error. He did not make the target numbers unsafe when the assault force crossed one of the control lines and landed on the LZ and continued to FFE. It got worse when the FOO, the BC and the CO all yelled "check firing" simultaneously on the net when they saw what was happening, which had the effect of everyone jamming the frequency. Which allowed the mayhem to continue for several more seconds. What saved the assault force that was the swampy ground. The rounds were impacting in amongst the the Twin Hueys quite nicely, but they didn't really do too much damage. The Royals (1 RCR, I think) were trying to scramble back on the helos as quick as FEs were trying were trying to throw them off, so they could get the helicopters out from under the full fury of D  Bty. In hindsight, it was humorous because no one got hurt. But it could have wiped out most of a company and all of 427 Sqn, had things gone a different direction.

When was this?

 :cheers:
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2018, 09:49:17 »
When was this?

 :cheers:

Summer of 90 or 91, IIRC.

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2018, 11:49:59 »
‘91 for sure.  I was slinging heavy stuff, but the Huey guys told us about the whole thing. I had heard that the CHECK FIRE was actually called initially because the pathfinder LOH had stuck its nose across the safety line at the North end of ANZIO, not because there were rounds dripping into the LZ.

Offline Petard

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Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2018, 15:33:13 »
‘91 for sure.  I was slinging heavy stuff, but the Huey guys told us about the whole thing. I had heard that the CHECK FIRE was actually called initially because the pathfinder LOH had stuck its nose across the safety line at the North end of ANZIO, not because there were rounds dripping into the LZ.

I was with E Bty (para) at the time, and much of what's being said above sounds familiar, including the early call of the Tgt to be unsafe for reason G2G mentions
Someone posted a video of this incident on one of the (closed) Canadian artillery groups on Facebook. In the video you can hear the radio transmissions and it does sound like two C/S are stepping on each other trying to call Check Fire

Incidentally, the officer in the CP that caused that disaster left the Reg Force shortly after it happened, but went on to serve in the very same unit that was involved in this latest 5 Fd embarrassment (playing punch buggy with a C3), don't think he was involved with that one though. He was, however, the cause of yet more butt hurt not too long ago, when someone got him involved with the transition of C1 howitzers to C3's for avalanche control.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 23:50:07 by Petard »

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2018, 19:33:10 »
I ran into that person on a BC ferry, recently.

Small world.