Author Topic: IR Postings [Merged]  (Read 49325 times)

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Online Navy_Pete

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Re: IR Postings [Merged]
« Reply #100 on: July 10, 2019, 21:19:59 »
So, obviously then, every CAF member can expect to receive IR and IR allowances for 7 years;  that's awesome!

And, who can argue against 7 years of IR allowances, the precedent has been set.  Right?

IR isn't a cash cow; all they cover is rent (up to a maximum rate) and $100 for parking.  The rate is normally on the lower end for furnished apartments in the city, so you will likely end up in a crappy bachelor apartment.

They don't pay any kind of TD allowances, SE or anything else, and I don't remember any travel back home being paid (except maybe an LTA prior to the deployment? It's pretty fuzzy).  All you get from Brookfield is the flight there, and whatever meals you would normally get while in transit.

Obviously more to be buying groceries for 1, and if you want to see your family, that's out of your own pocket.

I put my sea pay aside, but figure the year cost me at least an extra $1k-$1500 out of pocket, and that was with cheap flights between Halifax and Ottawa.  Would have been significantly more if I was further out, or I just wouldn't have gone back more than once every six months.

I know it used to be jammy and like a paid divorce back in the day, but now it's a crappy go.  Sometimes it just makes sense, but don't recommend it to anyone if they can avoid it.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: IR Postings [Merged]
« Reply #101 on: July 10, 2019, 21:31:43 »
Is there an IR thread this can be moved to?

It isn't the IR $ I am concerned about...more the issue of IR approved for some for extended timeframes, and folks I know with equally legitimate requests being denied.  In one case I'm aware of, the end state was the mbr felt that release may be the only feasible option.  It was, as I mentioned, a request for a 2nd year of IR (knowing the details, I deem it a substantiated request).  From a fiscally responsible perspective, there has been the argument presented that a cost move is possibly/likely more expensive than multiple years of IR.  Additionally, I consider the cost to replace and train aircrew.   
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Re: IR Postings [Merged]
« Reply #102 on: July 10, 2019, 21:43:47 »
What if the cost/value of the executive was more than a maintainer? The rules of IR were distorted in this case because the bureaucratic rules regarding compensation weren’t sufficiently flexible to retain high level talent without mucking with IR duration.

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Re: IR Postings [Merged]
« Reply #103 on: July 10, 2019, 21:50:30 »
Is there an IR thread this can be moved to?
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Offline FSTO

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Re: IR Postings [Merged]
« Reply #104 on: July 10, 2019, 22:33:08 »
IR isn't a cash cow; all they cover is rent (up to a maximum rate) and $100 for parking.  The rate is normally on the lower end for furnished apartments in the city, so you will likely end up in a crappy bachelor apartment.

They don't pay any kind of TD allowances, SE or anything else, and I don't remember any travel back home being paid (except maybe an LTA prior to the deployment? It's pretty fuzzy).  All you get from Brookfield is the flight there, and whatever meals you would normally get while in transit.

Obviously more to be buying groceries for 1, and if you want to see your family, that's out of your own pocket.

I put my sea pay aside, but figure the year cost me at least an extra $1k-$1500 out of pocket, and that was with cheap flights between Halifax and Ottawa.  Would have been significantly more if I was further out, or I just wouldn't have gone back more than once every six months.

I know it used to be jammy and like a paid divorce back in the day, but now it's a crappy go.  Sometimes it just makes sense, but don't recommend it to anyone if they can avoid it.

IR sucks and you lose money. End of story.

Offline Old EO Tech

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Re: IR Postings [Merged]
« Reply #105 on: July 11, 2019, 17:52:18 »
IR sucks and you lose money. End of story.

I certainly agree, I understand the TB policy on Food costs, but I don't know why they won't cover the entire cost of cable/internet, it's not like being away from home is decreasing my home cable/internet one bit, nor can you claim being connected in a luxury in 2019...

Jon

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Re: IR Postings [Merged]
« Reply #106 on: July 11, 2019, 18:57:43 »
I certainly agree, I understand the TB policy on Food costs, but I don't know why they won't cover the entire cost of cable/internet, it's not like being away from home is decreasing my home cable/internet one bit, nor can you claim being connected in a luxury in 2019...

Jon

Probably why a lot of people take hotel suites because internet and cable are included.  When I was posted to Toronto, I almost went that route.  The price also included a light supper Sun-Thurs and breakfast (probably continental) Mon-Fri. 
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: IR Postings [Merged]
« Reply #107 on: July 11, 2019, 19:00:40 »
Can't you also get an "all inclusive" apartment with wifi, cable/sat, etc?
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Re: IR Postings [Merged]
« Reply #108 on: July 11, 2019, 20:39:53 »
Can't you also get an "all inclusive" apartment with wifi, cable/sat, etc?

Probably.  My place in Ottawa had basic cable, internet and phone (no long distance).
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Offline Old EO Tech

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Re: IR Postings [Merged]
« Reply #109 on: July 11, 2019, 20:43:19 »
Can't you also get an "all inclusive" apartment with wifi, cable/sat, etc?

Possible but it's hit and miss.  I am coming IR to the NCR in August, downtown options are very limited, I put myself on a waiting list at the Cartier Inns and suites for the very reason that it would have cable and wifi, but there is a 30 person waiting list...   Fortunately the apartment I eventually found in Gatineau has cable included but not internet.

Another issue is the rate for the NCR is $1600 per month and that was set in 2008 and never been increased and it's no were near market rates on the Ottawa side, so most property management companies ignore your emails/phone calls as soon as they see you are military...   And the ones that will except IR people are booked full.

Cheers Jon

Offline Ostrozac

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Re: IR Postings [Merged]
« Reply #110 on: July 11, 2019, 21:39:14 »
IR as it stand right now is... odd. As written, it seems to imply that personnel should preferably be living in Single Quarters, but it is heavily (maybe mostly) used in Ottawa, which hasn’t had Single Quarters in decades. It is partially used as the basis for our Service Couple policy, even though Service Couples are separated by Career Management, not by choice. And our policy of requiring written justification and year-to-year renewal and the resulting uncertainty seems unnecessarily petty given the cost savings resulting from anything that reduces the number of cost moves.

The UK uses their equivalent of IR heavily, but England is the size of the Maritimes — British pers often live in quarters/the mess Monday to Friday and are home on weekends — do we want something like that? If so, we need regional career management/home porting. Or, given the size of our country do we need to post people nationally? if so, maybe one LTA a year is unnecessarily stingy — should we have one LTA every 60 days? Or a system of sustainment flights to get people home to their families on leave?

The “Journey” plan seems to imply that personnel will have greater control over their careers in the future — if so, then we need to think about if our IR policy is fit for purpose. I don’t think it is right now,

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Re: IR Postings [Merged]
« Reply #111 on: July 12, 2019, 10:58:00 »
Possible but it's hit and miss.  I am coming IR to the NCR in August, downtown options are very limited, I put myself on a waiting list at the Cartier Inns and suites for the very reason that it would have cable and wifi, but there is a 30 person waiting list...   Fortunately the apartment I eventually found in Gatineau has cable included but not internet.

Another issue is the rate for the NCR is $1600 per month and that was set in 2008 and never been increased and it's no were near market rates on the Ottawa side, so most property management companies ignore your emails/phone calls as soon as they see you are military...   And the ones that will except IR people are booked full.

Cheers Jon

Had a similar experience in Halifax a few years ago; the rate was $1440/month, but most places were +$2k plus.  One of the property management companies told me the IR equivalent for RCMP and other agencies had a much higher allowed rate ($2400) but was never able/could be bothered to confirm.

Found a place near the base that catered specifically to military, that included utilities and internet (but no cable tv) with four of us in the six (seven?) units, but was luck of the draw. Never saw anything in our range that had all that included.

Think when I looked at the shacks I would have had to rent furniture, or stay in the weirdroom with a meal plan.  Both options exceeded the monthly allowance, so was kind of weird to have to live on the economy from that perspective, but was actually a relief as I needed a break from a military environment, and my place had a BBQ (cooking for myself and trying out new recipes from scratch was a super good stress relief).

Figured that year on IR saved the GoC about $70k in moving costs, so was pretty frustrating to be nickle and dimed. There were a lot of small miscellaneous expenses, so the $17/day SE benefit they cut would have covered all of that (after tax).

Personally think the IR policy needs updated, but if our general approach to things like career management and flexibility of job location should be examined.  If you are moving from a cubicle in one town doing desk work to a cubicle in another town doing desk work, maybe we should consider some options to see if remote working makes sense.

Offline CountDC

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Re: IR Postings [Merged]
« Reply #112 on: July 12, 2019, 12:48:10 »
agree that maybe remote working should be considered.  Also in larger areas is it really necessary to move someone to another city if they don't want to go.  For example Halifax has lots of different holes that can be filled on a rotational basis rather than moving someone across the country to fill a hole there.

For some perspective.  The CFM listed moves:

STANDARD COST APPLICATIONS
Table 1-4 provides an estimate for military personnel cost moves during the 2018-2019 Active
Posting Season (APS). Posting allowance and administrative charges under the CAF Integrated
Relocation Program are included in the average cost move.

Table 1-4: Average Estimated Cost Move for APS 2018-2019
Type of Move                                      D Mil C
Inside Canada (Note 1)                       $39,197
Basic Training List (BTL)                     $13,158
Outside Canada: INCAN to US             $51,987
Outside Canada: INCAN to Overseas    $80,806
Outside Canada: US to INCAN             $47,206
Outside Canada: Overseas to INCAN    $70,456
Outside Canada: OUTCAN to OUTCAN  $54,215
IPR Moves (Releases)                         $26,556
Return from IR                                  $7,086

Note 1: For Senior Appointments use the rate of $47,802 for Inside Canada moves.

So does having the mbr on IR save money?

I know of one IR that was turned down due to no valid reason.  Spouse was a stay at home, children were in regular school with no graduations pending for a few years.  Mbr was just enjoying having his cake and eat it too (making lots of money while enjoying the single life for years away from the family).
“non-commissioned officer (NCO)” means a member holding the rank of sergeant or corporal.

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Online Navy_Pete

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Re: IR Postings [Merged]
« Reply #113 on: July 12, 2019, 12:57:56 »
Those return from IR costs are insane; my claim was about $400, and anything you can't take on the plane goes through CMTT, so can't see that costing $5-6k.

There is a random weight limitation for what you are allowed to take, so you can get away with a few boxes and a bike no problem, but not like you are taking furniture.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: IR Postings [Merged]
« Reply #114 on: July 12, 2019, 13:10:43 »
Suspect the amount is inclusive of Posting Allowance.

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Offline CountDC

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Re: IR Postings [Merged]
« Reply #115 on: July 12, 2019, 14:19:05 »
Suspect the amount is inclusive of Posting Allowance.

It is - see the paragraph at the beginning.
“non-commissioned officer (NCO)” means a member holding the rank of sergeant or corporal.

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