Author Topic: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS  (Read 435472 times)

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Offline whiskey601

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1525 on: October 16, 2018, 18:46:09 »
I didn’t think IUSS was monitored in Canada at all (the passive network monitored by UVIC doesn’t count). 

Do we monitor the network in Halifax?

 we have (had) pers at Dam Neck. (Unclassified)

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1526 on: October 17, 2018, 10:16:53 »
Quick question;  is the AOPS Link capable?
The only time you have *too much gas* is when you're on fire.

Offline Baz

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1527 on: October 17, 2018, 21:27:59 »
Quick question;  is the AOPS Link capable?

Don't know the answer, but it may not be strictly required with the SATCOM backhaul of link you're getting in Block IV.  You connect to Halifax directly, they do the same, Bob's your uncle...

Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1528 on: October 18, 2018, 06:29:35 »
IIRC they are Link-16 capable.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1529 on: October 18, 2018, 12:05:49 »
check, tks. 
The only time you have *too much gas* is when you're on fire.

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1530 on: October 19, 2018, 15:57:29 »
Is the A/OPS classified as a "major" or "minor" warship by the RCN?  (Or is that distinction gone now?)

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1531 on: October 19, 2018, 16:26:23 »
Is the A/OPS classified as a "major" or "minor" warship by the RCN?  (Or is that distinction gone now?)

It's a Patrol Ship and for technical matters a non combatant.
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Offline kratz

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1532 on: October 19, 2018, 16:29:29 »
Is the A/OPS classified as a "major" or "minor" warship by the RCN?  (Or is that distinction gone now?)

By definition1, A/SOP would be a minor warship, but more accurately referred to as a non combatant warship2.




1NPTORD 4500-57: defined as “surface warships which do not carry over-the-horizon, anti-air or ASW weapon systems, and which do not operate
aircraft.

2NATO Allied Procedure Publication 20 (APP-20) Standard Ship Designator System, Paragraph 0102.1: 2.Non-Combatants. Auxiliary, Service Support or Merchant/Recreational Vessel types, which tend to be role specific.  They may possess an armed or combat capability intended primarily for self-defence purposes.





Quote from: Pipe *General Call*
"Tanning Stations on the flight deck"


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Offline Colin P

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1533 on: October 19, 2018, 18:00:42 »
It's a Patrol Ship and for technical matters a non combatant.

Gee I hope whatever opponent we have uses the same criteria. It's navy and it's a legit target in any conflict.

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1534 on: October 19, 2018, 18:28:13 »
I ask because I had a "minor warship" bridge watch keeping certificate, which was good for an MCDV but not a CPF, so I am curious as to whether an MCDV BWK would be able to stand watch on the A/OPS (after appropriate qualification and CO's confidence etc).

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1535 on: October 19, 2018, 21:15:53 »
Gee I hope whatever opponent we have uses the same criteria. It's navy and it's a legit target in any conflict.

I say this because I'm currently posted into sea training Atlantic Patrol which will be looking after AOPS and Kingston Class. I will be posted soon into SO Non Combatants which will look after technical matters for AOPS and Kingston Class.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1536 on: October 19, 2018, 21:18:17 »
I ask because I had a "minor warship" bridge watch keeping certificate, which was good for an MCDV but not a CPF, so I am curious as to whether an MCDV BWK would be able to stand watch on the A/OPS (after appropriate qualification and CO's confidence etc).

Probably some more training working in ice and like you said when the CO is satisfied. You won't have to start out over.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1537 on: October 19, 2018, 21:32:50 »
By the current definition (the reg force, IMHO changes the damn definition whenever it fits their mood as to what constitutes a "minor" or "surface" warship for ticket's qualification) the AOPS are "surface" ship tickets vessels. There is no such thing as a "major" warship - only  a definition of what is a "minor" one - everything else requires a "surface/subsurface" watch keeping or command certificate -and since the AOPS are meant to operate aircraft, they are NOT minor warships.

Sad, but that's the way it is.

Personally, since the MCDV's are no longer strictly reserve vessels, I would like to see the reserve NW Officers being run through the frigates instead of the MCDV's after they complete their phase training - even if it requires two summers instead of one - and get their full BWK, even if after that they only are assigned to "minor" warships for short periods to keep up their knowledge base. This way, if any national emergency occurs, you have that many more people holding a somewhat up to date ticket to quickly re-qualify and hold a valuable position on a actual fighting ship.


But hey! That's just me! What do I know.  ::) 
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1538 on: October 20, 2018, 00:47:05 »
I say this because I'm currently posted into sea training Atlantic Patrol which will be looking after AOPS and Kingston Class. I will be posted soon into SO Non Combatants which will look after technical matters for AOPS and Kingston Class.

You find the ice navigation bit quite interesting and challenging

Offline Czech_pivo

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1539 on: October 25, 2018, 15:23:44 »
Not sure if this has been discussed on this thread in the past.

"Chile Builds Its First Icebreaker Ship"

https://www.janes.com/article/84022/euronaval-2018-asmar-ramps-up-production-of-new-chilean-navy-icebreaker
https://dialogo-americas.com/en/articles/chile-builds-its-first-icebreaker-ship

The article is a bit old, but they just started cutting steel on it yesterday.  We could have slotted our 3rd AOPS as being their's and moved our production out by 1 ship as Irving is asking for. So there goes one of the few potential places that we could possibly sell (gift?) an AOPS.  Would have thought that since we are doing the re-vitalization on their existing Frigates that we'd have a shot at building them an AOPS.  Interesting to see in the article that Vard Canada is doing work for them on the engineering.  The size of the ship looks quite similar to our AOPS.  Oh well.

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1540 on: October 26, 2018, 09:10:55 »
Probably some more training working in ice and like you said when the CO is satisfied. You won't have to start out over.

Isn't that the standard approach for BWK tickets in general from going between classes?  There is always a delta with how the ship handles, emergency procedures etc, so I've always seen a retraining period for BWKs going between the heavies. 

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1541 on: October 26, 2018, 09:38:38 »
Isn't that the standard approach for BWK tickets in general from going between classes?  There is always a delta with how the ship handles, emergency procedures etc, so I've always seen a retraining period for BWKs going between the heavies.

Speaking to my bosses , what may eventually happen that all NWO's will get their tickets on a CPF, then will go to Kingston Class or Harry Dewolf and after receiving the confidence of the CO be endorsed to that class. As for NWO's in the OP situation probably will be grandfathered and have to go to a CPF to get that endorsement and then move on to the Harry DeWolf. Although the CO of Margret Brooks a former reservist I believe never received her BWK on a CPF.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1542 on: November 02, 2018, 08:50:33 »
Article Link - CBC

Ottawa buys another Arctic and offshore patrol ship to be built in Halifax

Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan says the government will buy a 6th ship when the plan was to build 5


The federal government is purchasing another ship to be built in Halifax, the defence minister says a day after Ottawa awarded $7 billion in contracts to three shipyards for work on Royal Canadian Navy frigates — leaving concerns over an 18-month gap in work for Irving Shipyard employees.

The government will buy a sixth Arctic and offshore patrol ship for the navy, Harjit Sajjan said to a crowd at the Irving Shipyard in Halifax on Friday.


"The women and men of the Irving Shipyard build incredible ships and are essential for enabling the success of the Royal Canadian Navy," said Sajjan.

The government originally planned to purchase five Arctic and offshore patrol ships.

Public Services and Procurement Canada announced Thursday in a news release that it intends to sign contracts worth $7 billion with Davie in Lévis, Que., Irving Shipbuilding Inc. in Halifax and Seaspan Victoria Shipyards in Victoria for maintenance on 12 Canadian navy ships.

With the maintenance program split between three yards, workers in Halifax feared they would be laid off in between the end of the patrol ships program and the start of the Canadian Surface Combatant program.

Last month, Irving employees held a march in Halifax to protest against the Liberal government's intention to split the contracts with other yards, saying it would result in job losses.

Friday's announcement appears to be aimed at allaying those fears.

In a news release, the Department of National Defence said the sixth ship will help sustain hundreds of jobs at Irving shipyards.

"Today's announcement is good news for the Royal Canadian Navy, but it is also good news for Canadians, our economy and the city of Halifax. This is a region with deep ties to our navy," said Sajjan.

"By adding a sixth Arctic and offshore patrol ship, we are ensuring that our Royal Canadian Navy remains an agile and responsive force for years to come, so that Canada can continue to assert and enforce our Arctic sovereignty," he said.

Irving will begin construction on the fourth Arctic and offshore patrol vessel later this year.
The only time you have *too much gas* is when you're on fire.

Offline Czech_pivo

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1543 on: November 02, 2018, 09:24:23 »
Anyone ask the RCN if they wanted/needed a 6th one?

I'm willing to bet that given the choice of accepting a 6th AOPS or using that money to ensure that 15 CSC's were built, that the RCN would have chosen the  2nd option....

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1544 on: November 02, 2018, 10:16:06 »
The sole concern isnt capability or fiscal responsibility, its pork barrelling jobs (especially at Iriving).

Offline NavyShooter

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1545 on: November 02, 2018, 10:40:48 »
Well, 6 AOPS to replace 12 Frigates sounds about right...

Insert disclaimer statement here....

:panzer:

Offline Uzlu

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1546 on: November 02, 2018, 10:41:39 »
Anyone ask the RCN if they wanted/needed a 6th one?

I'm willing to bet that given the choice of accepting a 6th AOPS or using that money to ensure that 15 CSC's were built, that the RCN would have chosen the  2nd option....
In an alternate universe, there is no sixth Harry DeWolf, there are massive layoffs at Irving after completion of the fifth ship, the expense of re-hiring shipbuilders for the start of the first surface combatant is too expensive to build fifteen surface combatants, and the Royal Canadian Navy would have liked to have seen a sixth Harry DeWolf to prevent the loss of the fifteenth surface combatant.

Offline Czech_pivo

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1547 on: November 02, 2018, 10:48:46 »
In an alternate universe, there is no sixth Harry DeWolf, there are massive layoffs at Irving after completion of the fifth ship, the expense of re-hiring shipbuilders for the start of the first surface combatant is too expensive to build fifteen surface combatants, and the Royal Canadian Navy would have liked to have seen a sixth Harry DeWolf to prevent the loss of the fifteenth surface combatant.


Or, Irving gets all 7 Halifax's to work on under the 7 billion maintenance programme and there are no layoffs.

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1548 on: November 02, 2018, 11:01:18 »
Anyone ask the RCN if they wanted/needed a 6th one?

I'm willing to bet that given the choice of accepting a 6th AOPS or using that money to ensure that 15 CSC's were built, that the RCN would have chosen the  2nd option....


Absolutely, the RCN would gladly take 6 as all the tasks and missions it has for it they will be stretched thin.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1549 on: November 02, 2018, 11:02:23 »
Ottawa buys another Arctic and offshore patrol ship to be built in Halifax

In a news release, the Department of National Defence said the sixth ship will help sustain hundreds of jobs at Irving shipyards.


Condensed version of the entire article...
The only time you have *too much gas* is when you're on fire.