Author Topic: TCAT-PCAT info and questions ( merged )  (Read 84519 times)

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #100 on: March 03, 2014, 08:50:25 »
You could start by engaging the medical system, since by the account I see there, you haven't.  I've rewritten this a few times now, and will just leave it at that - but, if you should be on a category, or are on one and there is no chit to say what your restrictions are, you're responsible for ensuring you and your CoC have one that is up to date.  If you're placed on a TCat, you're responsible to ensure you get in to have that category extended, ended or changed to permanent.  If you have surgery that will cause you to likely need restrictions and you're a Class A, you're responsible to get the medical system involved to ensure you're employed properly. 

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Offline CountDC

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #101 on: July 07, 2014, 17:16:24 »
Did you get anywhere with this?

As a reservist that apparantly was cleared but then injured on an ex you may want to advise your CC/Adjt that you would like to apply for RFC and complete a DND 2398 - Reserve Force - Compensation during a period of Injury, Disease or Illness.  it will at least get the ball rolling and draw some attention with the right people to help.
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Offline Nudibranch

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #102 on: July 09, 2014, 14:23:34 »
Did you get anywhere with this?

As a reservist that apparantly was cleared but then injured on an ex you may want to advise your CC/Adjt that you would like to apply for RFC and complete a DND 2398 - Reserve Force - Compensation during a period of Injury, Disease or Illness.  it will at least get the ball rolling and draw some attention with the right people to help.

The mbr says she hasn't been seen by an MO since leaving the RegF, so no one would have "cleared" her to go on the ex, or put her on official MEL's for that matter. It sounds like everything was through the civi med system since she CT's in 2011. If mbr was concerned, should have asked to see MO, or not gone on ex (class A, not like they can make you go).

Jane, I agree with looking into the resources mentioned. You were re-injured on an exercise and hopefully this is documented, so apply for RFC. But as for transferring to RegF, it sounds like you haven't been medically fully fit since your initial injury in 2010, and unfortunately have a poor prognosis for returning to full duties. Had you never CT's out of the RegF, odds are you'd be on your way to a med release anyways, if not already released.

Offline Porch-Light.org

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #103 on: December 03, 2014, 14:29:35 »
I have a friend who suffers from PTSD. The medical system wants to "fast track his/her release" for some reason. Currently, he/she is on leave. Paternity/Maternity. He/she was asked to come in to see his/her Dr. so that he/she can go from a TCat to a PCat. This will start the process which, to his/her knowledge, will be expedited. In the CF leave manual, the CO needs to order the member back on duty for a min of 5 days or else the CF can't order this member to show himself/herself to a medical appointment. He/she advised them of this leave policy and told them that the appointment would have to wait.

Now, the BSurg threatened the member to show up or they would process the PCat without the member. My question is; Can the Dr. draft up a PCat recommendation for the BSurg without the member being there? It still needs to go the DMCA for final approval but even then, would DMCA approve a PCat without a full examination of the patient?

(It would be easier just to show up I know. The system is playing a game and this point is only to buy time and not punish a person that is enjoying a newborn while on unpaid leave)

Thanks!

Nick
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 14:46:21 by Porch-Light.org »
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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #104 on: December 03, 2014, 15:30:31 »
So far with a little research, this is what I came up with;

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-medical-occupations/assessing-cf-medical-fitness.page

MSMO Chap 3 (9)

As soon as the member's condition is stable or is not expected to significantly improve in the foreseeable future, a permanent category should be assigned, even before the end of the 12-month period of temporary category. A statement regarding prognosis shall be made in Section 3 of the CF 2033 and Section 2 of the CF 2088 at the earliest reasonable time. In the rare case where additional temporary status beyond 12 months may be warranted for extenuating circumstances, the case must be reviewed by D Med Pol Standards.

MSMO Chap 2 (3)

he Medical Examination - A complete medical examination is necessary when assessing medical fitness for the CF. This is also important when restrictions may limit the career choices being considered.

-----------------------------------------------

As I am interpreting the policy, a complete medical examination of the patient is required before a recommendation for any Medical category change.

Seems like the BSurg would have to ask the CO to order the patient back to duty for a min of 5 days. (which would be an admin nightmare/stopping EI and all) Then, the BSurg could book a medical appointment and have the member complete a medical examination. Lots of work to get a person to come to an medical appointment but it is in black and white.

What do you think? Is the interpretation right?
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Offline ch277

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #105 on: September 24, 2015, 12:19:20 »
I've got some questions with regards to TCATs. A few months ago, I had an accident while on leave which resulted in surgery and I was then placed on a TCAT. Since the injury occurred while on leave, I was wondering if I would be entitled to the same benefits as if the injured occurred while on duty. Also, as I work towards getting fit again, I was wondering what I had to do in order to be back in the "green". I was told I had to pass my medical, and be able to pass the PT test. But what if I'm unsuccessful? Will the TCAT be extended? How long do I have before I start facing career implications? And in the worst possible scenario, if I'm unable to get back to a deployable status once the TCAT period expires, what could happen? Again because the injuries happened while on leave I'm a little nervous. Thanks in advance!
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Offline BinRat55

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #106 on: September 24, 2015, 13:13:00 »
I've got some questions with regards to TCATs. A few months ago, I had an accident while on leave which resulted in surgery and I was then placed on a TCAT. Since the injury occurred while on leave, I was wondering if I would be entitled to the same benefits as if the injured occurred while on duty.

Exactly what benefits are you "receiving"? Are you reg force or reserve?

Also, as I work towards getting fit again, I was wondering what I had to do in order to be back in the "green". I was told I had to pass my medical, and be able to pass the PT test.

Not sure what the basis of this question is... you must be familiar with the universality of service? What did you do before you had your accident / surgery? We don't really "pass" a medical, we must meet the UofS. If we don't, our file goes to D Med Pol for an AR, and the rest is a matter of procedure towards a possible 3B release... If you can pass your FORCE test, the UofS has more than likely been met (or not even an issue)

 
But what if I'm unsuccessful? Will the TCAT be extended? How long do I have before I start facing career implications? And in the worst possible scenario, if I'm unable to get back to a deployable status once the TCAT period expires, what could happen? Again because the injuries happened while on leave I'm a little nervous. Thanks in advance!

See my response above - D Med Pol, DMCA, 3B release... anywhere from 6 - 8 months to 2 - 3 years. Give or take a day or two...

You have a MCpl avitar and your TI on your profile states you have 11 years in... i'm confused as to how you don't understand how any of this works...
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Offline ch277

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #107 on: September 24, 2015, 13:53:08 »
First off, sorry if I wasn't clear, but thanks for the fast response BinRat. I am a regular force member. I guess benefits is not the correct word to use in this instance. I was wondering if down the road if there was complications that were a result of this surgery (which is a result of a off-duty accident) it would be treated the same as if I had been injured at work (ie. VA).

I am familiar with the Universality of Service. My questions had more to do with what had to be done in order to meet it, coming of the TCAT. From what I was told by the Doc who is following me, the lifting of the TCAT will only be complete once I pass medical parts 1 & 2, and successfully pass the PT test.. at which point I would get the geographical and occupational factor (in my case currently G3 O3) back to where they should be. Again where I'm getting stuck is that the injury happened while not on duty. I wanted to know if that changed anything.

As far as not understanding this, well if I did I wouldn't be asking, but I do appreciate the pointers!
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Offline BinRat55

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #108 on: September 24, 2015, 15:15:08 »
First off, sorry if I wasn't clear, but thanks for the fast response BinRat. I am a regular force member. I guess benefits is not the correct word to use in this instance. I was wondering if down the road if there was complications that were a result of this surgery (which is a result of a off-duty accident) it would be treated the same as if I had been injured at work (ie. VA).

Ahhh... that makes more sense. The answer to this is tricky. Initially, one would want to say no - it happened off duty (the accident) so it wouldn't be covered. However, we are learning that in many cases, we are considered always on duty. It would come down to your "culpability" in said injury. So, while I can't answer this one with 100% certainty, you may need an adjudicator if it came to it. Document everything. Keep all your records. I am personally acquainted with a member who was involved in a motorcycle accident (member on civi roads, civi bike, civi clothing, after supper...). Several surgeries later, member does NOT meet the UofS. Released, but a 3B was in order. Member can't claim a pension, but received many benefits on release.

I am familiar with the Universality of Service. My questions had more to do with what had to be done in order to meet it, coming of the TCAT. From what I was told by the Doc who is following me, the lifting of the TCAT will only be complete once I pass medical parts 1 & 2, and successfully pass the PT test.. at which point I would get the geographical and occupational factor (in my case currently G3 O3) back to where they should be. Again where I'm getting stuck is that the injury happened while not on duty. I wanted to know if that changed anything.

As far as not understanding this, well if I did I wouldn't be asking, but I do appreciate the pointers!

Ok, so here it is as best as I can put it (there are many more here that could probably be clearer...) and I suggest you either retain this or write it down. As a MCpl, you must supervise troops. They will come to you for answers and you need to be able to give them at least a jumping off point. Using the correct terminology and pointing them to the right places...

A TCat is generally assigned to a member who cannot return to fit full duties (must remain on a medical chit) for longer than 30 days. This can be converted a few ways - Cpl Bloggins get's a 14 day chit, 14 day chit, 30 day chit then hits the TCat wall - depends on the MO. Many different factors involved here, so I won't get into the semantics. You are correct - the only way to come off a TCat is to return to fit full duties, but it's not that simple. You are right - paper needs to be generated by the MO. The part one is your work-up, part two is a sit down, more detailed. This is where you answer several questions for the MO - can you carry X lbs over X distance, can you run, can you wear a gas mask... if everything is within the UofS, MO signs off on your chit and you are back in business. You will have to pass the FORCE test, but that's standard - everyone does. Unless you are med excused. Which brings me to the second part of this - you do not meet UofS. The MO will place you on a PCat (or more than likely a 2nd TCat) awaiting results of your 2088 to come back from D Med Pol. You have just been put on an AR (Admin Review) Depending on why D Med Pol says on your MELs (Medical Employment Limitations) you could be retained without limitations and give a new set of MELs within your trade specs, or not.

So a long drawn out answer (i'm good for those... sorry!) but in short, you say you are now at a G3 O3. Do you know what your trade specs are? Do you know how to find them? As a MCpl, with over 10 yrs, the possibility of remustering to another trade is well within the realm of possibilities too.
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Offline ch277

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #109 on: September 24, 2015, 15:42:08 »
BinRat, I trully appreciate your long answer!! As soon as I'm more mobile I'll investigate further. Got to say that this whole scenario is stressing me out, definitely don't want the 3B. I haven't found a whole lot about off-duty injuries online. Hopefully this becomes nothing more than a lesson learned and I'll have a better understanding if this was to happen to a subordinate. It is surprising how many different stories I've gotten from peers and Sr NCOs with regards to what "could" happen because they knew a guy way back when... but I guess a good talk with the MO wouldn't hurt.

Yeah I'm keeping all these chits and paperwork locked in a safe hahaha!!

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Offline Teager

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #110 on: September 24, 2015, 18:18:37 »
If you are having a tough time with figuring out what your entitled to or the process of different scenerios ( although BinRat gave a good overall look at it) talk to your IPSC. They can defiantly give you the most up to date info and timelines for any process. Also can inform you about any benefits if it goes toward a 3B and what you may/may not be entitled to now.

Hope you recover quickly.

Offline Lily2016

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #111 on: October 14, 2016, 12:52:33 »
I have a question wrt TCat vs PCat - in 2011 i was diagnosed with illnesses related to PTSD - and ended up on a PCAT with a low risk.  It is now 2016 and I've been have been showing the same symptoms as previous.  I am to start seeing a shrink again and changing my meds and the RPN said I was going back on TCAT.  As I am already on PCAT for the same issues - is it possible to just initiate the process for a 3b medical release instead of doing the 1 yr of TCat's and then having it reviewed by D Med Pol ?

Offline DAA

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #112 on: October 14, 2016, 13:17:56 »
I have a question wrt TCat vs PCat - in 2011 i was diagnosed with illnesses related to PTSD - and ended up on a PCAT with a low risk.  It is now 2016 and I've been have been showing the same symptoms as previous.  I am to start seeing a shrink again and changing my meds and the RPN said I was going back on TCAT.  As I am already on PCAT for the same issues - is it possible to just initiate the process for a 3b medical release instead of doing the 1 yr of TCat's and then having it reviewed by D Med Pol ?

You probably weren't assigned a PCAT but more likely just a "regular" Medical Category with low risk MEL's which didn't breach UoS and within your MOSID Medical Standards for employment.  If the attending Health Care Professional sees the need to assign a new TCAT with greater MEL's that restrict employment, then that is what they will do.  So you will most likely have to start over again from scratch (TCAT, TCAT and possible TCAT) followed by a final Medical Category.

Nevertheless, you can always discuss such a possibility with your Health Care Professional and see what they have to say about it.  Just keep in mind, it's all "pensionable" time.    :)

Good luck!
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Offline Hockey22

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #113 on: October 14, 2016, 14:34:26 »
Hello folks, today after two years of suffering from severe post concussion syndrome I was given a PCat recommendation.

My question is:

What are the odds I don't get put on P Cat?

I gave up trying to stay in about 8 months ago and just want this process to go on smoothly. I know any answer is just speculation but I have some anxiety towards whether I'll be getting the PCat and released sooner rather than waiting around for even longer doing nothing.

Thanks again.

Offline DAA

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #114 on: October 14, 2016, 17:13:14 »
Hello folks, today after two years of suffering from severe post concussion syndrome I was given a PCat recommendation.
My question is:
What are the odds I don't get put on P Cat?
I gave up trying to stay in about 8 months ago and just want this process to go on smoothly. I know any answer is just speculation but I have some anxiety towards whether I'll be getting the PCat and released sooner rather than waiting around for even longer doing nothing.
Thanks again.

If you are recommended for a Med Cat that doesn't meet the minimum MOSID requirements ( http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-medical-occupations/officer-ncm-minimum-medical-standards.page ) and comes with MEL's that breach UoS ( http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-medical-occupations/selected-medical-conditions.page ) then you might be subject to the AR/MEL process (Administrative Review - Medical Employment Limitations).

Once you have been recommended for and subsequently assigned a Med Cat which possibly breaches UoS, it becomes a waiting game.  Stay in contact with your CAF Health Care Professional and go from there.
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Offline Lily2016

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #115 on: October 14, 2016, 17:24:16 »
It is a PCAT stating I can't be deployed on operation without being screened by a MO. My MO is looking into it - i just thought someone here might know the correct answer.

Cheers.

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #116 on: October 14, 2016, 20:22:30 »
The correct answer is hidden in the intricacies of your individual case file. DAA would likely be able to give you a better answer if he had more info, but that wouldn't be advisable on an open forum. Your best bet is to PM him, or wait until your MO has the decision (ask for references so you can review them yourself).

Offline Hockey22

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #117 on: October 14, 2016, 23:27:56 »
Thanks for all the answers.

If you ask me my MELs received today definitely without a doubt breach UoS. You'd think after 8 years of hurry up and wait I'd have more patience.

Just been super curious because I haven't been exposed to this situation before in my career.

Offline Lily2016

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #118 on: October 15, 2016, 13:20:41 »
Thanks for all your help !

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #119 on: October 17, 2016, 11:33:55 »
If you are recommended for a Med Cat that doesn't meet the minimum MOSID requirements ( http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-medical-occupations/officer-ncm-minimum-medical-standards.page ) and comes with MEL's that breach UoS ( http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-medical-occupations/selected-medical-conditions.page ) then you might be subject to the AR/MEL process (Administrative Review - Medical Employment Limitations).

Once you have been recommended for and subsequently assigned a Med Cat which possibly breaches UoS, it becomes a waiting game.  Stay in contact with your CAF Health Care Professional and go from there.

DAA I sent you a PM in hopes you may be able to clear it all up for me.

Thanks.

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #120 on: December 07, 2016, 10:07:47 »
my situation:

my expected medical release date is the end of March 2017. the decision came from an Administrative Review (AR) of my MELs, being on PCAT. the decision letter at the time stated if my med situation continues to improve and work full time, I can submit a request for period of retention. if my med situation improves to the degree that I can fully meet the U of S, a new AR will be held and I may remain in the CF.

currently there are no MO's available until after New Year's, so I want to know if I should proceed with request for period of retention first, since if I request to remain in the CF, I'd need to see an MO first so they can write up a good report for MELs review. I know that I don't need to see an MO before requesting a period of retention because it was the MO who has given me permission to work full time (after I received my decision letter).

if the request for period of retention goes through, my question is:
can I still request to continue my career in the CF full time WHILE I am working in the CF during my period of retention? it has been mentioned in the forums that "Upon completion of a period of retention subject to employment limitations, a CF member is only eligible to be considered for a component or sub-component transfer to the Supp Res, Canadian Rangers or CIC."

Offline captloadie

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #121 on: December 09, 2016, 10:36:21 »
In order to be offered a period of retention, your Chain of Command needs to make a positive recommendation and be willing to employ you within their lines. I have worked with a broad swath of MOCs, and most of the time, when a CoC recommends a period of retention, D MIL C will grant that period.

I have yet to see someone get a new AR and have their PCAT changed to become a low risk of breaching the UoS. Even individuals who have come back and have no MELs other than requiring follow up with a specialist no more often than 1 year, have not been granted a second MEL/AR because they are 04 or G4 and greater. This all has do to with the medical risk matrix and the potential for a member to have an acute episode while deployed, and the medical intervention required to bring the episode under control.

For example, I had an individual who had suffered a heart attack. He recovered, made positive lifestyle changes, returned to full duties and could complete the PT test. But, because of the type of heart attack, there was an increased risk (greater than 50%) that he could have a reoccurrence that would likely be fatal in a deployed setting. He became an G4 05, and was given a medical release. We retained him for the maximum three years, but couldn't convince DMEDPOL to change his category.

Another example was a member with a history of kidney stones. They could not pinpoint the cause, so they kept reoccurring randomly. Other than when experiencing an episode, the member had no MELs that limited her from performing her duties. But, once again, because of the risk matrix, she was assigned a G4 04 which breached UofS, and was medically released.

All that to say, you need to be prepared that even though you are getting better, and could return to full duties (depending on MOC and how they aggravate your medical condition), a period of retention may be the best you get.   

Offline CrazyTrain905

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #122 on: April 18, 2017, 18:55:34 »
I was contacted and told that I must go get my P-Cat MEL's reassessed. And was told that it needed to be done tomorrow and that it came from the B-Surg. When I asked why I wasn't given an answer I was told to just do it. Is this normal?

Online Blackadder1916

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #123 on: April 18, 2017, 23:35:36 »
. . .  and that it came from the B-Surg. . . .

So someone in your chain of command passed on a message from a medical authority.  Maybe any explanation of the reason for the reassessment would have required discussing your medical condition (which a medical authority would not be permitted to discuss with your chain of command), or maybe you received the total message that was provided and there was no explanation available to answer your question.  Yeah, it may seem out of normal (or is your concern with possible brusqueness/inconsideration from whomever passed the message), but the answer will probably be given to you when you contact the medics.
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Offline CrazyTrain905

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Re: PCAT info/questions (merged)
« Reply #124 on: April 18, 2017, 23:58:07 »
My concern is that I called the base hospital and they have no idea what he is talking about and stated the B-Surg isn't even on the base as they are away.