Author Topic: Army Communication & Information Systems Specialists (Sig Op, Lineman and LCIS Amalgamation)  (Read 960055 times)

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Offline Alpheus

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Just arrived in my inbox.

Quote
*** Sent on behalf of LCol I.R. Marchand ***

** This email has been sent to all affected mil members as well as RCCS Senior Officers and Senior NCOs  - plse re-distribute as required **


Today, I am happy to announce that the CDS order assigning CST and IST sub-occupations to the Specialist 1 Trade Group has been signed. The CDS order has an effective date of 1 October 2011, the date the ACISS occupation stood-up.

To say that you have all been patient is a significant understatement. Trust that the leadership of the RCCS has never doubted that this is the outcome that you all deserve for the tremendous work have done and continue to do every day. The Director and the DLCI team will work closely with all stakeholders to ensure that the required corrections in the pay system are performed as soon as possible and correctly reflect the compensation you are entitled to. Please bear in mind that due to the pay system complexity to execute retroactive compensation that reaches back more than six years in certain cases, it may require several months in the new year to address each individual account.

Your leadership will provide periodic updates in the new year as to progress toward of our objective of 100% of affected members receiving their retroactive compensation.

For individuals who have received payouts or presently have credits on their pay accounts linked to the implementation of the erroneous CDS Order in November 2016, pay offices have been directed to release these funds (for individuals who did not receive payouts) and remove members from pre-determined pay (PDP).

As noted, corrections to pay accounts for all other CSTs and ISTs will be dealt with in the new year as expeditiously as possible.

Please continue to forward‎ questions and concerns through the chain of command.

Happy Holidays.

I have complete faith that someone, somewhere, somehow will completely eff this up as usual.

Offline ringo598

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IF FINALLY HAPPENED!  MERRY CHRISTMAS FOLKS!  IST/CST Spec Pay approved.  My info says date of your backpay is 2.1 qual date.

Edited as someone posted the message before me :D
"Anything that is complex is not useful and anything that is useful is simple. This has been my whole life's motto."- Mikhail Kalashnikov, Creator of the AK47

Offline Alpheus

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When is pay inputed into the system?  I'm one of the credit on my pay account, if I don't see the backpay at the end Dec, I still have a tax/EI headache to deal with.

Offline PuckChaser

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Thank God all the bitching will be over and people can get back to being Signallers again.

Offline dapaterson

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Thank God all the bitching will be over and people can get back to being Signallers again.

I thought that was PO 401.01 on all signals courses.
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Offline ringo598

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It'll be interesting to see if they use my 5A qual date, or my 2.1 date for the backpay as they have a 3 year difference.

Eitherway, hopefully this will help retention a bit and help get more guys in the door.
"Anything that is complex is not useful and anything that is useful is simple. This has been my whole life's motto."- Mikhail Kalashnikov, Creator of the AK47

Offline rmc_wannabe

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Thank God all the bitching will be over and people can get back to being Signallers again.

This has never been about the bitching. Its been a lesson in not letting your mouth write the cheque before anything gets approved.

I was there when this whole crap show started. I remember numerous high level NCOs and officers dangling this carrot to try and retain a Sigs Corps bleeding skilled workers.

Cpl Bloggins has a long memory and a loud mouth. The CoC of the CAF would be remiss if they did not take this debacle as a learning opportunity in integrity.
"One of the most feared expressions in modern times is 'The computer is down.'"
 -Norman Ralph Augustine

Offline PuckChaser

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I thought that was PO 401.01 on all signals courses.
Pretty sure that one is Alcoholism, I'll have to check my course reports.

Offline sidemount

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I thought alcoholism was just one of those things that is on all of them....like safety only more practical.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

Leadership is solving problems. The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help or concluded you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership. - Colin Powell

Offline Cobrajr

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At least I wont be doing taxes for money I don't have now.
I don't expect to see anything done until the new year on my account since tomorrow is our last day of work at my unit.
But wow its finally happened, the weight is gone, I don't know how to feel.
I seriously hope this helps bring more people to CST/IST, we are hurting BAD. My shop is empty, used to be 10+, it will be down to 2 qualified workers in the new year with an increased workload from when it was over 10.

Congrats everyone! Spend it wisely!
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 21:56:52 by Cobrajr »

Offline Daywalker

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So glad this crap is finally sorted out for you guys!

Hmmm, does this mean that those of us (being a 2.1 qualified CST CPL) who OT'd to another trade also get our back pay during this time period (up to when we OT'd) ?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 23:54:59 by Daywalker »

Offline walrath

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I'm glad this finally happened for you guys, even though I OT'd 4 years ago.

Offline armyman7877

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Well it looks like the lineman are not getting tech pay. No offense but the lineman  climb poles and do more courses and way more technical stuff and are deserving of tech pay as much as the other trades.  Why in the world are the lst trade being left out?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 10:57:52 by armyman7877 »

Offline PuckChaser

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Well it looks like the lineman are not getting tech pay. No offense but the lineman  climb poles and do more courses and way more technical stuff and are deserving of tech pay as much as the other trades.  Why in the world are the lst trade being left out?

Cause you guys, like Core, didn't have all the complaining that IST did to sneak themselves into the CDS order assigning pay groups. Too focused on the job I guess. The only thing that should have been fixed was all the former LCIS folks should have had vested rights and kept their spec pay until a decision was reached through the proper process. All the new folks recruited into the new trades didn't know what they were missing.

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if LST slowly disappeared in the next 30-40 years with the way technology is moving. Climbing poles is a course, and anyone can be taught to do it. When they did the last big working group, LST advisors were trying to become in charge of HCLOS and WiFi as bearer systems, because they could see the writing on the wall that they cannot just rely on climbing poles anymore. CST might end up dead if they don't evolve either, especially if they're going to keep IST around.

Offline armyman7877

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With due respec,t I totally disagree. We lineman are busy as ever doing work orders. I know most of the lineman can do all your jobs plus our own with no problem. If you really think lineman is not technical the  try  designing a cable plan and do our job. I'm sure most of you  wouldn:t last. It would be great if fellow lineman would fight for fair compensation and tech pay.

Offline Neso

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most of the lineman can do all your jobs plus our own with no problem. If you really think lineman is not technical the  try  designing a cable plan and do our job. I'm sure most of you  wouldn:t last. It would be great if fellow lineman would fight for fair compensation and tech pay.

I suppose you can do every job in the CAF?

It's called Spec Pay, and it isn't granted based on how hard you work.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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IMO, the 'we work hard' argument is pale when you think of how hard the folks in the infantry work when they're doing their job. 

If you want spec pay, hey OT to AES Op and get Aircrew Allowance on top of it too!   :nod:  We're always looking for good people.
Everything happens for a reason.

Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions.

Offline armyman7877

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Nope I have 15 plus years in the lineman trade. No we can not do every job in the cfs but we can absolutely do every job in the tech side especially us older folks who are around 40. We are  the ones doing your jobs half the time. The lineman trade as a whole are a proud bunch and deserve to be recognized for our training and contributions.

Offline Terminal

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we can absolutely do every job in the tech side especially us older folks who are around 40.

This tells me you have no idea what ISTs/CSTs do.

In what unit are linemen developing network plans and programming routing configs? In what unit are linemen setting up and configuring TSS or Smart-T systems? In what unit are linemen managing encryption, DGSS or OBD servers?

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Nope I have 15 plus years in the lineman trade. No we can not do every job in the cfs but we can absolutely do every job in the tech side especially us older folks who are around 40. We are  the ones doing your jobs half the time. The lineman trade as a whole are a proud bunch and deserve to be recognized for our training and contributions.

The Signals branch doesn't seem to hold the same opinion on the issue, or the CDS.  I am not slighting your MOSID, okay, I am just saying that a convincing argument for spec 1 for it was apparently not made. 

If you can do every other tech trade job, then why not just book and challenge the CCNA/CCDA exams?  Use that as a starting point for the level of tech knowledge and validation for spec 1.
Everything happens for a reason.

Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions.

Offline armyman7877

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My point is lineman is a tech trade and should be given spec pay. Our trade on the civilIan side does offer such pay bonuses and what not. To say lineman is not a skilled tech trade is insulting . I have hope  that we will fight to be payed equally like the rest of the techs. We develop cable plans, and yes most of us lineman  can so most of the tech stuff. They want us to be part of the tech unit do most of the work but get completely  left out of any compensation. I am hopeful our chain of command  will fight on our behalf for spec pay and fair compensation for the lineman.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 17:59:34 by armyman7877 »

Offline PuckChaser

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If there were a plethora of high-paying civilian jobs out there for LSTs, your trade wouldn't be the only green trade in ACISS (and even prior to ACISS). Line/LST has never had recruitment/retention issues, so clearly either your training is not up to industry standard, or you're being paid fair wage for the training you have.

Your trade on the civilian side is mostly hourly wages and very bust/boom dependent. I think a lot of trademen would kill to have a guaranteed $60K a year plus benefits for 25 years, instead of having to put in 80 hour weeks and then being laid off a couple months of the year.

Offline 1984

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My point is lineman is a tech trade and should be given spec pay. Our trade on the civilIan side does offer such pay bonuses and what not. To say lineman is not a skilled tech trade is insulting . I have hope  that we will fight to be payed equally like the rest of the techs. We develop cable plans, and yes most of us lineman  can so most of the tech stuff. They want us to be part of the tech unit do most of the work but get completely  left out of any compensation. I am hopeful our chain of command  will fight on our behalf for spec pay and fair compensation for the lineman.

Reel your neck in, step back and take a deep breath. You do less now as an LST then the old legacy LMN did and you expect to be paid more for it? Put 100 Linemen in a room and ask what the OSI model is; then watch 3 raise their hands (probably folks who worked in the private sector first). Unfortunately my peers and yours decided not to grab on and wrestle technology to the ground when they had the chance, saying "we do too much already" while making grunting noises and banging their chests. So during MES we dropped the telephone switch which is evolving into VoIP; a technology which actually requires some depth of tech skill beyond climbing a pole (horrible example of what LMN do by the way). The trade/occupation has lost a lot of its skill sets with regards to OSP/ISP design and has ceded much of that responsibility to SSC and other civilians. I retired because I saw ACISS as a whole as a lost cause and got tired of banging my head on a rock. If I was a fortune teller (lucky for you I'm not) I would not see much future for 77 Line Regiment either beyond a lot of PYs all in one basket that can easily be wiped out and replaced with contractors then re-rolled into something more useful in the 21st century like a cyber operator or a drone pilot. I do, however have one recommendation for you if you want spec pay...don't sulk in your office, go out, sit on boards, argue to take on more technological responsibility, then change the system and earn it.

Offline armyman7877

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I have been serving in the military since 1997.  I have been around long enough to see many things over the years but 77 line regiment is running very well and as a whole we are not going anywhere.  My whole point being is that the line man are techs the same as the other trades. It's even in the tittle lineman technicians.  We often feel we get the little stick and by being bypassed on spec pay it feels like the icing on the cake. And yes i fo feel likewe should be compensated and no we do not do less work.

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My whole point being is that the line man are techs the same as the other trades. It's even in the tittle lineman technicians.

Did you just add technician to Lineman? I’ve only ever seen the trade name as Lineman, never Lineman Technician. Or are you referring to LST, which is Line Systems Technologist

Also, even if it did have technician in the trade name, that doesn’t mean it should be a spec pay trade, eg Supply Tech, Med Tech(unless you are a PA or have a speciality within the trade).
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 19:22:24 by Pickle Rick »