Author Topic: Army Communication & Information Systems Specialists (Sig Op, Lineman and LCIS Amalgamation)  (Read 961210 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline 1984

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 5,924
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 299
I have been serving in the military since 1997.  I have been around long enough to see many things over the years but 77 line regiment is running very well and as a whole we are not going anywhere.  My whole point being is that the line man are techs the same as the other trades. It's even in the tittle lineman technicians.  We often feel we get the little stick and by being bypassed on spec pay it feels like the icing on the cake. And yes i fo feel likewe should be compensated and no we do not do less work.

Just quit while you're behind. If you've been in that long then we probably know all the same people and you should also know I speak the truth. Your argument (if you can call a whiney rant an argument) is ludicrous...and just because I'm recently retired doesn't mean I don't know whats going on and don't talk to the guys still in. But whatever man...you do you...just stomp your feet on the internet, be jealous of your compatriots in arms rather than happy for them for getting a bonus and we'll just see how far it gets you.

To all the CSTs and ISTs out there; I'm happy for you...even if this guy sees your windfall as his soap box. Cheers.

Offline armyman7877

  • Guest
  • *
  • 320
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 18
Yes ' the linemen are every bit a tech trade as any of the  other trades. The reason why our trade has never been in the red is because it is  a technical job and most of the lineman find this trade very rewarding. If you think lineman is not tech and such an easy job then go try designing a Cable plan and go on the road for two plus months..  I'm just here to state the fact that our job is very technical  and deserving of spec pay the same as the other techs.

Online PuckChaser

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 922,590
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,184
    • Peacekeeper's Homepage
You know you get TD on the road, right? Just because you have to travel doesn't make you a spec trade. You're already compensated for the travel.

Offline ringo598

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 1,680
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 60
From my understanding (info comes from a pow-wow that had both CM's and D-DSigs) LST & Core were not submitted at all.  After the last attempt at spec pay it was seen that "on paper" the two other trades simply didn't have enough compared to civilian side to warrant further review of specialist allowance. 

It wasn't that they didn't work hard, or that they were not skilled.  It was a comparison to civilian compensation as a whole.  In the civilian world lineman make about or less what they do in the CAF. (AGAIN AS A WHOLE, I know someone will say but my line buddy makes 100k splicing single mode with Bell, but that's a one off, not as a whole).  Whereas techs and server admins make MUCH more as a whole in civy land (*Cough*Cough* civy contractors at CFSCE or 765/764 Sqns all make 100k+ and not just a few of them).

Its not a slight at all to lineman, its a comparison to civilian compensation AND retention.  My last look at that access file from CMP that shows the trade mannings showed Core & Line both healthy, while CST (78%) and IST (53%) both critically red was another factor.
"Anything that is complex is not useful and anything that is useful is simple. This has been my whole life's motto."- Mikhail Kalashnikov, Creator of the AK47

Offline Alpheus

  • New Member
  • **
  • 1,835
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 47
I have complete faith that someone, somewhere, somehow will completely eff this up as usual.

I hate being right.  Went to my pay clerk today to ask about when I will see my back pay, was told that they have received direction from Ottawa.  Of course, that directive is to only pay to legacy LCIS with the old qual code.  Yay.  Oh, and those of us with f**ked up tax situations will receive a modified T4 in the spring to correct the pay balance issue.  I have complete confidence that this will not happen.

Offline rmc_wannabe

  • CADPAT Computer Nerd
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 16,785
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 454
  • NTLDR is missing, PRESS Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart
I hate being right.  Went to my pay clerk today to ask about when I will see my back pay, was told that they have received direction from Ottawa.  Of course, that directive is to only pay to legacy LCIS with the old qual code.  Yay.  Oh, and those of us with f**ked up tax situations will receive a modified T4 in the spring to correct the pay balance issue.  I have complete confidence that this will not happen.

Sounds like they are just trying to figure out how to calculate 6 years of Back Pay for approx 600 people in the range of 30 to 100K on a case by case basis. Easy job, might take a day or so. No big deal...  :facepalm:

Stead on lads, steady on. :salute:
"One of the most feared expressions in modern times is 'The computer is down.'"
 -Norman Ralph Augustine

Offline Lumber

  • Donor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 59,764
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,103
You guys need to be less original with your choices of avatars.
"Aboard his ship, there is nothing outside a captain's control." - Captain Sir Edward Pellew

“Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower

Death before dishonour! Nothing before coffee!

Online PuckChaser

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 922,590
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,184
    • Peacekeeper's Homepage

Offline IT_Dude_Joeschmo

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 2,091
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 799
  • Getting 1's and 0's to flow...
With due respec,t I totally disagree. We lineman are busy as ever doing work orders. I know most of the lineman can do all your jobs plus our own with no problem. If you really think lineman is not technical the  try  designing a cable plan and do our job. I'm sure most of you  wouldn:t last. It would be great if fellow lineman would fight for fair compensation and tech pay.

With all due respect... Most lineman can do all your jobs plus our own with no problem? I would actually pay a $100 bet to see ANY lineman in the Forces attempt to do what I do on a daily basis. Just the average stuff, not even anything advanced. Normal ACISS-IST tasks you would see a guy doing at CFJSR or on tour somewhere. You have no idea how far out of range you are with that shot. You don't actually know what you do not know and cannot know it until you've seen it or attempted to do it. ACISS-IST do not simply reset passwords and make user accounts. That's not all of it buds. That's a slice.

Linemen are technical yes, and splicing cable is complicated, but, when I have to instruct the linemen on the differences between a fiber and ethernet-based switch... When I have to explain to ACISS-Core guys that HCLOS is actually passing network traffic via microwave radio frequencies and not simply running as an RRB...

Anyway, congrats to everyone, I actually, never thought this would happen. Spec pay party for vanity to happen if/when I receive backpay!

Cheers
"When I retire, I want to become a gay Hollywood actor, they always make more money!"... My old boss's plans ;)

ACISS-IST's, look here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/239432422884449

PS> It's not a trap!

Offline ringo598

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 1,680
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 60
Wait..are we supposed to wait for the backpay before spending it? Oh.  I did a bad thing...
"Anything that is complex is not useful and anything that is useful is simple. This has been my whole life's motto."- Mikhail Kalashnikov, Creator of the AK47

Offline rmc_wannabe

  • CADPAT Computer Nerd
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 16,785
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 454
  • NTLDR is missing, PRESS Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart
Wait..are we supposed to wait for the backpay before spending it? Oh.  I did a bad thing...

Why do I feel like I will be having this conversation multiple times on Monday with my troops....  :facepalm:
"One of the most feared expressions in modern times is 'The computer is down.'"
 -Norman Ralph Augustine

Offline ringo598

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 1,680
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 60
But but Sirrrr

I needed that new Truck.
And snowblower...
And rifle...
And TV...

By the way sir, can you approve my memo for a pay advance?

:D
"Anything that is complex is not useful and anything that is useful is simple. This has been my whole life's motto."- Mikhail Kalashnikov, Creator of the AK47

Offline ringo598

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 1,680
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 60
For any IST's interested, CDS order is being corrected, but some very good sources state that the pay/backpay/qual is:

"AKOX AND AKOF AND AKOH"

REF is CDS Directive 046/17, which currently has an OR in there, but its being changed to AND.

"Anything that is complex is not useful and anything that is useful is simple. This has been my whole life's motto."- Mikhail Kalashnikov, Creator of the AK47

Online PuckChaser

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 922,590
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,184
    • Peacekeeper's Homepage
There was a CCPS message go around this week to inform members that any spec pay change for ISTs is being done nationally, not at the unit level, so don't bug your OR asking them to turn on your spec 1.

Offline c_canuk

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 14,225
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 433
For any IST's interested, CDS order is being corrected, but some very good sources state that the pay/backpay/qual is:

"AKOX AND AKOF AND AKOH"

REF is CDS Directive 046/17, which currently has an OR in there, but its being changed to AND.

AKOX - DP2 ACISS Det 2IC
AKOF - DP2.1 IS Admin Tech
AKOH - DP2.1 IS Net Admin Tech

I don't have AKOX on my MPRR (via MM) but I assume it's covered by my QL5 which isn't displayed with a competency on my MPRR for MM either. I wonder if that's going to be an issue.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 11:43:04 by c_canuk »
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-John Stewart Mill

Offline signalsguy

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 4,690
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 479
Hmm. I imagine that there are quite a few ISTs out there that predate the ACISS DP2 qual and will have the Sig Op QL5 qual. Maybe this is a way to save some $$.

I suspect that this is far from over, look at how complicated the LCIS payout became.

Online PuckChaser

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 922,590
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,184
    • Peacekeeper's Homepage
Looks like they forgot to add the AKwhatever code for ACISS DP2 modernization. Probably easier for all you folks to just submit PLAR docs and get the courses granted.

Offline c_canuk

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 14,225
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 433
Looks like they forgot to add the AKwhatever code for ACISS DP2 modernization. Probably easier for all you folks to just submit PLAR docs and get the courses granted.

No that's where I got the AKOH Competency, This does mean though, that I probably won't get back pay till 2011 as promised since I got loaded onto DP2.1D much later despite having a complete PLAR.

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-John Stewart Mill

Offline Alpheus

  • New Member
  • **
  • 1,835
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 47
Fvcked again.

How is DP2.0 relevant to being a tech?  Its a core course!  But hey, it's only 2.5 years of back pay down the toilet.

Online PuckChaser

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 922,590
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,184
    • Peacekeeper's Homepage
Because your DP2.0 is part of your course package that makes you a substantive Cpl much like the old QL5 was the spec pay course.

If you've been a Cpl for 2.5 years and didn't mention to your CoC that you needed that course,  you need to shoulder some blame for not getting that back pay.

Offline c_canuk

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 14,225
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 433
Fvcked again.

How is DP2.0 relevant to being a tech?  Its a core course!  But hey, it's only 2.5 years of back pay down the toilet.

As Puckchaser mentioned, it's in line with other spec pay that you need the QL5 equivalent to prove you're out of the training stage and actually providing specialist skillsets to the job. As far as I'm aware all spec pay is after DP2.0/QL5.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-John Stewart Mill

Offline c_canuk

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 14,225
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 433
For any IST's interested, CDS order is being corrected, but some very good sources state that the pay/backpay/qual is:

"AKOX AND AKOF AND AKOH"

REF is CDS Directive 046/17, which currently has an OR in there, but its being changed to AND.

Do you have a link to this? I'm not seeing enumerated CDS Directives from the DIN, just a handful of directives to staff officers and the search is not helping.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-John Stewart Mill

Offline IT_Dude_Joeschmo

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 2,091
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 799
  • Getting 1's and 0's to flow...
Do you have a link to this? I'm not seeing enumerated CDS Directives from the DIN, just a handful of directives to staff officers and the search is not helping.

Laughably, you may be able to find more information on the ACISS-IST FB group here. It's for IST's only though:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/239432422884449
"When I retire, I want to become a gay Hollywood actor, they always make more money!"... My old boss's plans ;)

ACISS-IST's, look here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/239432422884449

PS> It's not a trap!

Offline ringo598

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 1,680
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 60
You can find the updated info here too, the public internet website has been updated with the codes as well:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/specialist-pay-reg-force-ncm-mosids.page
"Anything that is complex is not useful and anything that is useful is simple. This has been my whole life's motto."- Mikhail Kalashnikov, Creator of the AK47

Offline c_canuk

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 14,225
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 433
I found out why I don't have AKOX on my docs, I have AKOY which was the Sgt's Conversion course, as I was 6As qualified at the time.

So my Trg Coord contact says he would assume AKOY being the conversion course for Sgt, it would be a higher level than AKOX which was the MCpl Conversion, should entitle me.

I figure I'll have to PLAR AKOX if the clerks don't see it that way. We shall see.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-John Stewart Mill