Author Topic: Paying Compliments (Saluting, Verbal Address)  (Read 150632 times)

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Offline garb811

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Re: Paying Compliments (Saluting, Verbal Address)
« Reply #425 on: May 29, 2019, 20:09:46 »
The first time that I remember seeing this travesty was during the Chretien years.

Somebody either had an ego problem, or was trying to suck up.

There was certainly no such "entitlement" during the early part of my career.

It's wrong, and revolting.
I was present when Mulroney was saluted in the late 80s, pretty sure he predates Chretien... The MND was definitely being saluted at that time as well, a friend of mine was jacked up for not doing it.

Offline Dimsum

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Re: Saluting Distance
« Reply #426 on: May 29, 2019, 20:16:39 »
And then there was the Field Ambulance RSM who (as the story is told) would begin any telephone communication with an officer by popping to attention and saying "SIR, I AM SALUTING YOU".

I immediately thought of John Cleese for some reason.
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Re: Saluting Distance
« Reply #427 on: May 29, 2019, 21:06:31 »
I suppose conversational distance depends on the individual.  Back in the dark ages, I recall a PPCLI Sergeant Major who not only saluted officers who may be passing by on the other end/side of the Currie Barracks parade square, but could be plainly heard demanding that the officer return the salute.  And then there was the Field Ambulance RSM who (as the story is told) would begin any telephone communication with an officer by popping to attention and saying "SIR, I AM SALUTING YOU".

The long range salute isn't limited to the army... I had a Capt speak with me when I was a Pte in Cold Lake because I didn't salute him from across the road in the dark(I didn't even see him there). He waited in the hallway of the hangar to jack me up while I was returning from collecting my data for an observation.


Online mariomike

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Re: Paying Compliments (Saluting, Verbal Address)
« Reply #428 on: May 29, 2019, 21:36:33 »
I was present when Mulroney was saluted in the late 80s, pretty sure he predates Chretien...

Wasn't there a news item about the RCMP having to politely explain to Mrs. M. that she was not entitled to a salute?

Is it customary in the US to salute FLOTUS?
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 22:22:31 by mariomike »

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Paying Compliments (Saluting, Verbal Address)
« Reply #429 on: May 29, 2019, 22:53:04 »
Who doesn’t like my little scheme of marchin up and down the square?
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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Paying Compliments (Saluting, Verbal Address)
« Reply #430 on: May 30, 2019, 17:52:29 »
I was present when Mulroney was saluted in the late 80s, pretty sure he predates Chretien... The MND was definitely being saluted at that time as well, a friend of mine was jacked up for not doing it.

Agreed.  While it may not have been in the book [I checked CAMT 2-2 Drill (All Arms) (1959) and a CFOCS "Officers' Handbook Jul 1985"] it was probably always the accepted protocol to salute the PM and MND on appropriate occasions, (e.g. arr/dep military functions, establishments, or vehicles).  I think (but cannot be sure) that when I went through Cornwallis in the 1970s we were told that we were to salute those who were in that "chain of command" list that we had to memorize (the PM and MND of the day were in the list along with the Queen, GG, CDS and the BComd among others).  As for when such a practice began, I think this pre-dates Mulroney, Chretien or any other holder of the office that most here would have come into contact with.  What's that happening as he exits the vehicle? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaODHPGxV-I

Though British Army regulations don't specifically state that serving soldiers will (or will not) salute their PM and Defence Minister, it does very clearly say what level of honours (size of guards, no of gun salutes, etc) such office holders may receive when ceremony coincides with their job.

In one response to a (British) FOIA request the following was the reply.  It seems eminently civilized.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/758963/05935.pdf
Quote
(iii) Is it incorrect for the armed forces personnel to salute members of Her Majesty's Government?

In short it is rarely wrong for anyone to pay a compliment to another and while there is no stated requirement to salute a member of Her Majesty’s Government, it is customary to do so in appropriate circumstances.

The world being the place it is and people being people, I can understand some on these means who have objections rendering any sort of honours to any individual with a political connection.  Thankfully, I no longer am compelled to render compliments to anyone; if I still was, my objection would be to the blanket requirement to salute any member of the Royal Family.  If one had to choose whom was more deserving of honours, which would it be - photo 1 or photo 2?
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Paying Compliments (Saluting, Verbal Address)
« Reply #431 on: May 30, 2019, 18:05:46 »
#2
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Re: Paying Compliments (Saluting, Verbal Address)
« Reply #432 on: May 31, 2019, 06:30:49 »
The world being the place it is and people being people, I can understand some on these means who have objections rendering any sort of honours to any individual with a political connection.  Thankfully, I no longer am compelled to render compliments to anyone; if I still was, my objection would be to the blanket requirement to salute any member of the Royal Family.  If one had to choose whom was more deserving of honours, which would it be - photo 1 or photo 2?

With a functioning arm I never have to choose just one, but if forced to do so it would be #2.

My reasoning is the whole tradition of saluting is anachronistic, so it is more appropriate as a form of showing respect to a member of the Royal Family. If the civilian world goes back to it being common to tip your hat to people as a way of showing respect I'dll be glad to revise my opinion.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Paying Compliments (Saluting, Verbal Address)
« Reply #433 on: May 31, 2019, 07:11:38 »
I don't think something that is done, today, in every military of every nation can be considered anachronistic. And I don't think it came from the tip of the hat that was a British thing in its days - and not a French or continental European, or Asian , or Middle eastern thing at any time. The fact that the British justified the salute on that basis does not extend to everybody else who'd it. We must conclude that military saluting has a different basis therefore.

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Re: Paying Compliments (Saluting, Verbal Address)
« Reply #434 on: May 31, 2019, 07:44:46 »
I don't think something that is done, today, in every military of every nation can be considered anachronistic. And I don't think it came from the tip of the hat that was a British thing in its days - and not a French or continental European, or Asian , or Middle eastern thing at any time. The fact that the British justified the salute on that basis does not extend to everybody else who'd it. We must conclude that military saluting has a different basis therefore.

Military fashion and tradition comes from the culture that the military is from, or the culture/military that is being copied or imitated.

That other militaries around the world have adopted the western standard for saluting doesn't make it's origins any less "from another time".

That said I'm not against tradition or anachronishms (like some people consider the Monarchy), quite the opposite actually. I believe that traditional practices help keep us rooted to our history and culture, and I think our history and culture are well worth preserving and honouring.

Offline garb811

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Re: Paying Compliments (Saluting, Verbal Address)
« Reply #435 on: May 31, 2019, 12:15:16 »
Another take on the origin of the salute from The Met's website under their Misconceptions and Questions Relating to Armor:
Quote
...
Be that as it may, English seventeenth-century military records indicate that “the formal act of saluting was to be by removal of headdress.” By about 1745, an English regiment, the Coldstream Guards, appears to have amended this procedure, being instructed to “clap their hands to their hats and bow as they pass by.” This practice was quickly adopted by other English regiments and may have spread from England to America (via the War of Independence) and Continental Europe (through the Napoleonic Wars). Accordingly, the truth may lie somewhere in the middle, with the military salute originating as a gesture of respect and politeness parallel to the civilian custom of raising or tipping one’s hat, possibly in combination with the warrior’s custom of showing an unarmed right hand.
If you consider the salute to be anachronistic, I suppose you'd consider the entire idea of what we do for drill to be as well. After all, the entire point of drill was to train and execute tactical maneuvers on the battlefield, not for pomp and circumstance.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Paying Compliments (Saluting, Verbal Address)
« Reply #436 on: May 31, 2019, 13:05:45 »
I'll just leave this right here ;)

"If you can't get them to salute when they should salute and wear the clothes you tell them to wear, how are you going to get them to die for their country?" General George S. Patton
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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Paying Compliments (Saluting, Verbal Address)
« Reply #437 on: May 31, 2019, 15:41:24 »
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Offline Pusser

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Re: Paying Compliments (Saluting, Verbal Address)
« Reply #438 on: June 12, 2019, 11:34:54 »
If one had to choose whom was more deserving of honours, which would it be - photo 1 or photo 2?

This is actually a tough choice.  Currently, the MND is also a commissioned officer, so he actually rates a salute on two counts.  Officers' commissions are generally for life (only one Canadian officer has actually been stripped of his commission) and so they carry it into retirement. 
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