Author Topic: Tattoo Thread - including current policy [MERGED]  (Read 218984 times)

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Offline Sparkplugs

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #500 on: June 09, 2015, 10:22:36 »
I read back and don't remember seeing this posted, but whenever they next update the 265, this looks like it'll be in it, at least that was my interpretation, correct me if I'm wrong, please. Found this file with minutes from the dress meetings while I was looking for tattoo related stuff. The update is simple, it will change the current regs to one allowing neck tattoos, while keeping them forbidden on the face, head or ears. I had heard this before, but finding the actual minutes was good. Doesn't mean you can run out and cover the neck with ink, still have to wait for the amendments, but it'll happen someday. (And who knew once stuff was approved, it could still take years to get put in the book?)

Ok, so the initial file was too big, so I extracted the paragraph concerning tattoos, as well as the initial identifier, so one could find the file if they want. If anyone wants the full file, or the French translation of this stuff, let me know and I can send it by DIN to you.

Edit: I lied, it was posted about in the past few pages, but in case anyone is wondering, this is from the document itself. Cheers!
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 10:32:28 by Sparkplugs »
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Offline CountDC

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #501 on: June 09, 2015, 15:54:09 »
According to my MCC, it doesn't matter where the placement of the tattoos are. Both of the my tattoos that are deemed "maybe offensive" can be covered up and are usually covered up with just a short sleeve shirt. So its unlikely anyone will see it unless I am shirtless. I imagine the tattoo policy has changed for this fiscal year because when I joined the Reserves in 2012 the Grim Reapers were not an issue

Gotta ask - how long are your arms and the short sleeve shirt you are covering these with?  Looking at the photo it looks to me like these tattoos are covering a fair length of arm, more than a normal tshirt would cover. 

I think the issue would be the image and wording combined not passing the CBC test for displaying the military in a positive light.  Most people wouldn't know the quote and some would view it as a statement by another blood thirsty member of the military looking for babies to kill.    Nice to have to be so touchy feel good about everything and walk on eggs for the public.  I'm sure someone would be offended by my dragon too. 
"When the power of love, overcomes the love of power....the world will know peace" - Jimi Hendrix [1942-1970]

Offline FortYorkRifleman

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #502 on: June 09, 2015, 16:08:38 »
Gotta ask - how long are your arms and the short sleeve shirt you are covering these with?  Looking at the photo it looks to me like these tattoos are covering a fair length of arm, more than a normal tshirt would cover. 

I think the issue would be the image and wording combined not passing the CBC test for displaying the military in a positive light.  Most people wouldn't know the quote and some would view it as a statement by another blood thirsty member of the military looking for babies to kill.    Nice to have to be so touchy feel good about everything and walk on eggs for the public.  I'm sure someone would be offended by my dragon too.

Any short sleeve shirt can cover the grim reapers which are located on my bicep and and tricep; when I was in the Reserves and had the combats rolled up you couldn't see either of them. I have two full sleeves and everything below the elbow is "PC" apparently. The issue is just the reapers which, according to my MCC, may be associated with biker gangs and/or blasphemous. He claims PSOs are denying a lot of people with "offensive, vulgar, blasphemous" tattoos so I have no idea what my fate is. I'm not removing or covering up anything as I believe it actually insults myself and the CAF; the reason I got them hasn't changed and I personally know they are not meant to be offensive while the CAF fails to understand that a) people with actual offensive tattoos like the guy I did my medical with can just lie and say they don't have such things and b) just having tattoos is offensive to some people whether they be Christians, Muslims etc or those who feel its a stupid thing to get.

Had I lied I wouldn't be here waiting which makes me lose respect for the CAF.

Offline CountDC

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #503 on: June 09, 2015, 16:33:53 »
"Any short sleeve shirt can cover the grim reapers which are located on my bicep and and tricep"

Mine don't cover the bicep/tricep, not even the military issued.

Don't blame all the CAF - most of us don't care what you have for a tatto other than if it is a cool one we wish we had gone for first.  It is the extreme PC movement at work again.

I am sure in no time they will go back to the old "strip off" medicals to catch all the tattoos someone may be hiding. 

Hopefully it will work out in the end for you and you can get pass that outer public ring. 
"When the power of love, overcomes the love of power....the world will know peace" - Jimi Hendrix [1942-1970]

Offline Loachman

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #504 on: June 09, 2015, 16:59:26 »
Art, and offence, are matters of personal taste, or lack thereof.

While I am not a fan of tattoos in general, especially what I consider to be excessive ones, I think that the MCC in question would fit into the offensive category were he to be transformed into a tattoo. His opinion is just that, and of no more value than anybody else's.

A grim reaper is not normally considered to be offensive, nor blasphemous.

One of our Chinooks in Kandahar had a red, and very obviously female, winged devil painted on it. Nobody seemed to complain about that.

Offline FortYorkRifleman

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #505 on: June 09, 2015, 17:07:15 »
Art, and offence, are matters of personal taste, or lack thereof.

While I am not a fan of tattoos in general, especially what I consider to be excessive ones, I think that the MCC in question would fit into the offensive category were he to be transformed into a tattoo. His opinion is just that, and of no more value than anybody else's.

A grim reaper is not normally considered to be offensive, nor blasphemous.

One of our Chinooks in Kandahar had a red, and very obviously female, winged devil painted on it. Nobody seemed to complain about that.

The MCC is currently on a course so I won't know whether it'll be granted until the end of the month, according to him. Should I be denied what can I do to fight this? The CF Ombudsman?

Offline mariomike

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #506 on: June 09, 2015, 17:42:22 »
The CF Ombudsman?

No guarantee it will get you in, but apparently applicants "may bring a complaint to the Ombudsman".

"Any of the following people may bring a complaint to the Ombudsman when the matter is directly related to the Department of National Defence or the Canadian Forces."
 
•A current or former member of the Canadian Forces
 
•A current or former member of the Cadets
 
•A current or former employee of the Department of National Defence
 
•A current or former non public fund employee
 
A person applying to become a member

•A member of the immediate family of any of the above-mentioned
 
•An individual on an exchange or secondment with the Canadian Forces
http://www.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/en/ombudsman-about-us/mission-mandate.page
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 17:52:45 by mariomike »

Offline FortYorkRifleman

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #507 on: June 09, 2015, 19:54:52 »
The two applicants my MCC said were denied waivers both had "offensive tattoos"; one had a decapitated Geisha head while the other had a Pentagram. I can sort of see why they would be offensive but Grim Reapers? Really? His argument was it can be associated with biker gangs and I said any tattoo can be associated with gangs/organized crime. I said the two tattoos in question can be covered up but apparently it doesn't matter; fellow service members can still see them when I take a shower etc. So my impression is he's concerned I'm offending fellow soldiers, not civilians both home and abroad.

Offline ballz

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #508 on: June 09, 2015, 19:59:24 »
Denied for having a pentagram?  :o :worms:

We are letting Wiccans (and any other religion for that matter) wear a beard despite it not being "fundamental" to their beliefs, but we are denying applicants because they have a pentagram tattoo???

I really hope this is all just a bad dream.
Many persons have a wrong idea of what constitutes true happiness. It is not attained through self-gratification, but through fidelity to a worthy purpose.
- Helen Keller

Offline FortYorkRifleman

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #509 on: June 09, 2015, 20:19:43 »
Denied for having a pentagram?  :o :worms:

We are letting Wiccans (and any other religion for that matter) wear a beard despite it not being "fundamental" to their beliefs, but we are denying applicants because they have a pentagram tattoo???

I really hope this is all just a bad dream.

Unfortunately, it's not. People high up in the CAF must not have much to do if they're making non-sense policies like this. Sometimes I feel like closing my file and trying my luck with the French Foreign Legion.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #510 on: June 10, 2015, 00:13:47 »
Sometimes I feel like closing my file and trying my luck with the French Foreign Legion.

Some awesome tats in the FFL:
http://foreignlegion.info/french-foreign-legion-tattoo-policy/

Offline FortYorkRifleman

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #511 on: July 20, 2015, 18:57:52 »
To update you all my re-enrollment waiver has been granted and my medical files were sent to Ottawa and returned and looks good to go. Still no word on my tattoo waiver as my MCC stated he hasn't heard anything yet.

Offline MJLANT

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #512 on: July 21, 2015, 17:28:37 »
I read some of the comments/posts on here about tattoos and I must admit that I don't quite understand...

I am a woman with multiple tattoos (foot, lower back, belly button, ribs/sides and shoulders) would that be much of a problem?  I don't think my tattoos are offensive unless a cupcake, some stars and some flowers are offensive...

Someone could give me some information please?

Thank you  :camo:

Offline mariomike

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #513 on: July 21, 2015, 17:53:15 »
I read some of the comments/posts on here about tattoos and I must admit that I don't quite understand...

I am a woman with multiple tattoos (foot, lower back, belly button, ribs/sides and shoulders) would that be much of a problem?  I don't think my tattoos are offensive unless a cupcake, some stars and some flowers are offensive...

Someone could give me some information please?

Thank you  :camo:

From the Recruiting website:

"Are Forces members allowed to have tattoos and/or piercings?

Yes. Forces members can have non-offensive tattoos anywhere on the body except for the face, neck and ears. Offensive tattoos (anything pornographic, racist, containing vulgar language/design, etc.) are not acceptable in the Forces. Forces members are not allowed to wear any piercings while in uniform or in the work environment, except for women’s stud earrings."
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/faq-220

Offline MJLANT

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #514 on: July 21, 2015, 17:55:32 »
Are Forces members allowed to have tattoos and/or piercings?
Yes. Forces members can have non-offensive tattoos anywhere on the body except for the face, neck and ears. Offensive tattoos (anything pornographic, racist, containing vulgar language/design, etc.) are not acceptable in the Forces. Forces members are not allowed to wear any piercings while in uniform or in the work environment, except for women’s stud earrings.

Thank you but I had that information already.  I read something here about a waiver or something like that?

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #515 on: July 21, 2015, 18:00:13 »
If you need a waiver you'll be told at the recruiting center. You've already got the tattoos, so nothing is going to change based on internet posts. You have the information that everyone else has, nobody can give you a specific answer except for the recruiting center.

Offline MJLANT

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #516 on: July 21, 2015, 18:43:15 »
If you need a waiver you'll be told at the recruiting center. You've already got the tattoos, so nothing is going to change based on internet posts. You have the information that everyone else has, nobody can give you a specific answer except for the recruiting center.

Awesome!!  Thank you very much.

MJ

Offline JesseRandall

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Offensive Tattoo
« Reply #517 on: December 17, 2015, 16:42:47 »
My name is Jesse Randall and I was denied the opportunity today to join the Canadian Armed Forces under the pretense of an offensive tattoo. It was 11 years ago that this tattoo was done and I was 15 years old. It's in the form of an acronym... "FTS".

I was honest about its true meaning at the time that it was drawn on me. I told the recruiters that it had meant "**** the system".

I also told them that the current meaning to me was of sentimental and nostalgic value for a specific time in my life.

I was a rebellious kid and a want to be badass. It was mostly for show and to prove I had the guts to get a tattoo at 15 years old. What kind of 15 year old kid even understands the "system"? I don't even understand most of it now. I was told it went through several layers of authority before the eventual dismissal, and that under the current policies, I will have to wait a year for them to even consider accepting me again, and only if the policies change. Even if I remove it or black it out... I'm told that the initial tattoo (whether it is currently present or not) is a sealed door for life unless said policies change.

All I want is a chance to prove myself and serve my country as a member of the infantry. I'm not a kid any more.

Any help is appreciated.


Offline Loachman

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Re: Offensive Tattoo
« Reply #518 on: December 17, 2015, 17:26:11 »
The Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy):  http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,869.500.html

See if there's anything helpful in there while awaiting a response from one of our Recruiters..

I, personally, do not see anything offensive but my opinion does not count.


Offline mseopsid

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #519 on: December 17, 2015, 19:36:57 »
As a heavily tattooed member of the CF I feel I have quite a bit of experience on this subject. I have heard all kinds of stoys and opinions about the subject from people trying to get in the CF,  ncm's, officers, recruiter's, ect...
for people already in the Forces you are allowed to get tattoos anywhere except you neck, head, and face. Also exercise common sense and DO NOT get a swastika or a naked woman on any bodypart that can be seen in uniform. Also keep in mind swimming PT is a thing.
For those of you trying to get into the forces...lissen carefully.
You can be kept out because of your tattoos even if they are not offence in you opinion.
when you are speaking to a recruiter keep in mind their job is to fill positions. Not to give a crap if you have a skull tattooed on your chest so if you think the recruiter is going to think your hard core and give you a job because of a tattoo you are wrong and it may in fact keep you out.
If you go to a recruitment office with pants and a long sleeve or t- shirt on and have no visible tattoos then keep yoir mouth shut about your ink.
I very much doubt a recruiter is going to ask you to disrobe to see if you have tattoos.
I know a guy who was kept out and pretty much told to stop applying because of his tattoos, his dream of being im the military is gonna because of his tattoos and it is mostly his fault for disclosing that information to the recruiter. Once you get in no one cares as Lon as you exercise common sense with what you get and where you get it.

Offline Scrim

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #520 on: December 17, 2015, 20:11:50 »
As a heavily tattooed member of the CF I feel I have quite a bit of experience on this subject.

Any experience in recruiting?

If you go to a recruitment office with pants and a long sleeve or t- shirt on and have no visible tattoos then keep yoir mouth shut about your ink.

Or how about applicants be truthful and honestly answer questions concerning tattoos, etc.

Offline Tcm621

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Re: Offensive Tattoo
« Reply #521 on: December 17, 2015, 20:37:28 »
Bottom line is that if you really want to serve you need to fight it. There are a lot of routes to go but get it in writing if you can. I would probably start by writing a letter to get an explanation as to the nature of the offensiveness. It seems to me that the letters  FTS could mean anything.

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Offensive Tattoo
« Reply #522 on: December 17, 2015, 20:43:20 »
If you really care enough to serve, get it covered up. Justifying what it is won't help you. The letters on their own aren't offensive, but your explanation makes them subversive and counter to the CAF values. Covering it will show that you were willing to do what you can to fit in with the CAF culture when you appeal.

Offline JesseRandall

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Re: Offensive Tattoo
« Reply #523 on: December 17, 2015, 20:47:53 »
I stated that I was more than willing to black it out or laser it off. Honestly, I'd probably take a cheese grater to it too...

That doesn't appear to mean anything to the recruiters.

"We might entertain the idea in a year or so regardless of what you do"

Simply put... that's the message I received.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Merged Tattoo Thread (including 2012-13 policy)
« Reply #524 on: December 17, 2015, 20:48:48 »
Once you get in no one cares as Lon as you exercise common sense with what you get and where you get it.

That would likely apply to most union jobs. Once you get in. As per arbitration, "This was a unionized workplace, so the union was able to file a grievance under the collective agreement challenging the new policy. No human rights argument was raised. A unionized employer cannot impose dress and appearance codes based on the personal views and biases of managers."

"Non-union employers can usually impose whatever dress or appearance code they wish, subject to any human rights issues that could arise. Unionized workers clearly have a greater right to personal expression at work."
http://lawofwork.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/OttawaHospital.pdf
"The union’s challenge focussed on the requirement that employees cover up large tattoos while at work"

If you release from the CAF and apply for a job in emergency services, you may wish to read this,

"Tattoos: A Word of Warning"
http://firelink.monster.com/benefits/articles/929-tattoos-a-word-of-warning
"A candidate should understand that having a tattoo may affect his or her chances of getting hired."

OPP tat spat up in air
Provincial police still don’t have an official tattoo policy, two years after Commissioner Chris Lewis imposed a ban on ink when a senior member mistook a constable with tats on his forearms for a gang member,
http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/07/08/opp-tat-spat-up-in-air

Studying Public Perceptions of Police Grooming Standards,
http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=152&issue_id=112003

Where I used to work, Paramedics were required to keep tattoos covered by a long-sleeve Departmental shirt. Regardless of the season. This was grieved by the union. It went to arbitration and the City lost. But, I would delay getting any ( new ) tattoos until after you get hired, and after you complete probation.

I stated that I was more than willing to black it out or laser it off. Honestly, I'd probably take a cheese grater to it too...

I read that people who bought stock ten years ago in companies that do that are getting rich now.  :)

Good luck with your application.



« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 22:44:57 by mariomike »