Author Topic: Kilts and pants?  (Read 45270 times)

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Offline canada94

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Kilts and pants?
« on: September 29, 2010, 19:31:00 »
I was just wondering weather highlander Regiments are issued both Kilts and Pants for parade, or just kilts.

Thank you,

Mike

I just realized I did not put this in the right section (should be unifrom's, which i swear i clicked) But in advance, sorry.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 19:36:14 by canada94 »

Offline Davionn

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2010, 09:23:27 »
Nope,

The unit issues the kilt, and the fact that the tunic is "cut away", means that you couldn't wear issued pants even if you aquired some.  That would look pretty silly.

Closest thing is a set of trews, but as far as I know, most units do not issue (or wear) them for parades. 



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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2010, 09:31:24 »
The only people I've seen in trews were in Mess Kit.

Nope,

The unit issues the kilt, and the fact that the tunic is "cut away", means that you couldn't wear issued pants even if you aquired some.  That would look pretty silly.

Closest thing is a set of trews, but as far as I know, most units do not issue (or wear) them for parades. 



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Offline CanadianTire

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2010, 09:52:43 »
And even then only Sergeants and above get mess kit.

The kilt is more comfortable anyway.
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Offline toughenough

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2010, 10:01:21 »
To be more exact, highlanders are in fact issued pants. The box of goodies that come with DEUs are standard. As much as we'd like to say no, we still are issued pants. We'll simply never wear them. As stated above, the DEU jacket gets cut in a manner that you couldn't wear it with pants even if you wanted to.

Offline dangerboy

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2010, 10:02:42 »
And even then only Sergeants and above get mess kit.


Any rank can get mess kit, you are paying for it out of your own money.  While normally only people that have reached the rank of Sgt get it I have know some guys that got it to be married in.
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Offline --NES--

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2010, 10:59:59 »
The only people I've seen in trews were in Mess Kit.

The Drum Major for the RHFC wears Trews on parade and technically the RSM is entitled to wear them on parade as well. I believe there are a few other parade positions which are entitled to them, but I really on ever see the Drummy wear them.

At one point, the CoC (for RHFC) were toying with the idea of going back to trews, since the Highland Light Infantry of Canada wore them and our sister regiment wears them.  Either way, trews are still worn with a cut away tunic.

Besides that, we generally don't get issued pants at all. (I have a pair that I ordered from Logistik Unicorp)

To be more exact, highlanders are in fact issued pants. The box of goodies that come with DEUs are standard. As much as we'd like to say no, we still are issued pants. We'll simply never wear them. As stated above, the DEU jacket gets cut in a manner that you couldn't wear it with pants even if you wanted to.

Well... not every unit goes by this; we have a surplus of cut away DEU jackes and if we can't get one to fit, someone orders one of the correct size from Logistik Unicorp and we get it tailored. Everything else (shitrs, tie, etc.) comes out of their initial issue, whether it's done at the unit (ordered from clothing stores) or at brigade clothing.
Even when troops go to brigade clothing stores, they generally don't get pants with initial issue since they're never going to wear them anyway.

Either way, it all depends how initial issue is done and if it's in the order of dress for that highland unit when it comes to whether or not you wear / are issued pants.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 11:03:12 by RHFC_piper »
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Offline toughenough

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2010, 14:46:22 »
I stand corrected.

The way Clothing Stores at JFA Hamilton handles it, you get a complete initial issue set of everything (including PT strip, painter hat, over coat, and stuff you actually wear like shirts, tie, jacket, etc).

I believe the logic being that if you CT to the regs, you have in fact been issued pants and french hat. You'd still have to burn points for a new/uncut jacket, but wouldn't have to replace all of the other pieces you'd otherwise be missing.

I can see the logic in not paying to cut jackets every year, and rather use the ones off the shelf from when Pte Bloggins washed out, or that Sgt Bloggins got too fat for.

Offline canada94

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2010, 15:00:56 »
Ah so the upper body part of the uniform wouldn't work with Pants

Offline CanadianTire

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2010, 14:39:43 »
Any rank can get mess kit, you are paying for it out of your own money.  While normally only people that have reached the rank of Sgt get it I have know some guys that got it to be married in.

Thanks for the clarification.  I guess it makes sense, as for most JR social functions, one wouldn't require mess kit.

My unit used to have a surplus of cut-aways, but when we ran out and guys started getting the LU tunics (we never get issued the pants), the tailor we sent them off to did a different cut than the older ones.  The rumour now is that everyone has to reorder the tunic and get it with the new cut.  Somewhow I don't see that happening before our Centennial at the end of November.

We've also bought up the last of the McKenzie tartan in the world. :)
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Offline ivan the tolerable

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2010, 15:10:15 »
We've also bought up the last of the McKenzie tartan in the world. :)
Exactly how would that work, as the MAcKenzie tartan is far from falling out of production?  Or did the unit buy up some rare tartan that they have no need of?
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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2010, 15:26:48 »
The only people I've seen in trews were in Mess Kit.
When the Lake Superior Scottish Regiment had a band of its own, its members wore trews - referred to by those at the pointier end of the org chart as "golf pants" :D
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Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2010, 22:15:46 »
In the 48th, officers wore the trews.

The only NCO that did was the RSM.

Why?  couldn't care less.  I dug the kilt, however the effort was painful getting ready (ironing shirts, polishing shoes and brass) It was freaking hot, and yer calzones sweated, regardless whether you were regimental or not.  However the effort was worth it, chicks dig kilts!!!

Bottom line, I never saw anyone wearing trews that did not have pips or the Canada Post insignia somewhere on the uniform.

Anyways, trews are for for fairies!!!  Real men wear Kilts!

dileas

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Offline BYT Driver

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2010, 22:37:38 »
In the 48th, officers wore the trews.

The only NCO that did was the RSM.

Why?  couldn't care less.  I dug the kilt, however the effort was painful getting ready (ironing shirts, polishing shoes and brass) It was freaking hot, and yer calzones sweated, regardless whether you were regimental or not.  However the effort was worth it, chicks dig kilts!!!

Bottom line, I never saw anyone wearing trews that did not have pips or the Canada Post insignia somewhere on the uniform.

Anyways, trews are for for fairies!!!  Real men wear Kilts!

dileas

tess

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Offline CanadianTire

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2010, 09:08:25 »
Exactly how would that work, as the MAcKenzie tartan is far from falling out of production?  Or did the unit buy up some rare tartan that they have no need of?

Thanks for the spelling correction.  We've just ordered a batch of kilts, and the order has used up the last available woolen MacKenzie tartan fabric suitable for making kilts.  It simply means that the mills in Scotland have to produce another run, a process that takes about 8 weeks or so - at least, this is what a kilt maker has told me.  Its not that there will never be anymore, but when you need them in less than two months, 8 weeks is a bit of a wait.
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Offline tumbling_dice

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2011, 13:22:54 »
On the topic of mess kit, I recently saw a naval officer wearing a mess dress and a kilt.  Assuming that's allowed, is there a specific navy tartan (like RCAF tartan) or is it up to the wearer?

Offline N. McKay

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2011, 15:09:21 »
On the topic of mess kit, I recently saw a naval officer wearing a mess dress and a kilt.  Assuming that's allowed, is there a specific navy tartan (like RCAF tartan) or is it up to the wearer?

I remember this being discussed elsewhere a while ago and no evidence could be found of there having been a Canadian naval tartan (although there is a US one).  The closest anyone could come was to an otherwise unidentified tartan used by a somewhat obscure naval P&D band several decades ago.

As far as I'm aware there's no provision in the dress regs for a kilt or associated accoutrements to be worn with naval mess dress.  But I'm really curious: what (apart from the kilt) was the officer wearing that was different from standard mess kit, and do you know what tartan was used?

Offline noneck

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2011, 04:05:55 »
Just to clarify Canadian Tire- the Regiment bought the last supply of heavy weight MacKenzie #2. There is plenty of that lightweight skirt material around, but it just doesn't hang as well (or sway)  as the heavier weight wool.

Noneck

Offline CanadianTire

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2011, 10:07:16 »
Ah yes...I remember hearing Mr. MacDonald complain bitterly about the lighter weight tartan that everyone seems to be making kilts out of these days.
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Offline Pusser

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2011, 13:12:25 »
On the topic of mess kit, I recently saw a naval officer wearing a mess dress and a kilt.  Assuming that's allowed, is there a specific navy tartan (like RCAF tartan) or is it up to the wearer?

No, there  is no naval tartan.  No, kilts are not authorized for wear with naval mess kit.  This doesn't mean it doesn't happen though.  It is not uncommon to see naval officers wearing their family tartan kilts with their mess jackets.  Since our mess jackets are cut short (similar to a Bonny Prince Charlie), it actually works with a kilt.  As with the kilt, their is no common pattern for sporrans, hose or sgian dubhs either.
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Offline Pusser

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2011, 13:25:15 »
Any rank can get mess kit, you are paying for it out of your own money.  While normally only people that have reached the rank of Sgt get it I have know some guys that got it to be married in.

The proper etiquette is that mess kits are evening wear, so it is only correct to wear mess kit if the wedding is in the evening (i.e. after 1800).  If the ceremony takes place in the morning or afternoon, the correct dress is 1 or 1A. You can change into mess kit for the reception if it occurs after 1800.

Having said this, there are certainly many examples where people have gone against these social guidelines.  They are only guidelines after all(coxswains/RSMs rarely conduct dress patrols at weddings).  Although I sometimes lament  :'( the way our society has relaxed (i.e. chosen to ignore out of some misguided theory about "modernizing") many of the old rules.  I once saw pictures of a guy wearing naval mess kit at an afternoon wedding (mistake #1), with a sword (huge mistake #2) that was hooked up (bordering on unforgivable sin #3)! 
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2011, 13:54:01 »
No, there  is no naval tartan.  No, kilts are not authorized for wear with naval mess kit.  This doesn't mean it doesn't happen though.  It is not uncommon to see naval officers wearing their family tartan kilts with their mess jackets.  Since our mess jackets are cut short (similar to a Bonny Prince Charlie), it actually works with a kilt.  As with the kilt, their is no common pattern for sporrans, hose or sgian dubhs either.

Well, someone is selling a "Royal Canadian Navy Tartan" - look at http://www.tartanhousecanada.com/ROYAL-CANADIAN-NAVY-tartan-fabric-65-polyester-35-p/rcnpv.htm

And assuming there isn't a Maritime Command Tartan, it certainly sounds like an endeavour to pursue for some significant milestone.  And since we just missed the centennial, I guess it can wait until the bicentennial in 2110...
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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2011, 14:05:41 »
Ah yes...I remember hearing Mr. MacDonald complain bitterly about the lighter weight tartan that everyone seems to be making kilts out of these days.

Noticed that when I had one made up for my wedding, just didn't seem to have the heft of my old issue horse blanket. 8)

Now what was that comment earlier re alluding to going regimental being optional?  :rage:
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Offline N. McKay

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2011, 14:13:43 »
I once saw pictures of a guy wearing naval mess kit at an afternoon wedding (mistake #1), with a sword (huge mistake #2) that was hooked up (bordering on unforgivable sin #3)!

I've seen such a picture as well (maybe the same one).  The world wonders.

Well, someone is selling a "Royal Canadian Navy Tartan" - look at http://www.tartanhousecanada.com/ROYAL-CANADIAN-NAVY-tartan-fabric-65-polyester-35-p/rcnpv.htm

That's the one I mentioned above.

Is anyone familiar enough with the organization that regulates such things to be able to find out how official this is?

Offline Pusser

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Re: Kilts and pants?
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2011, 14:44:25 »
If there is an official RCN tartan, then I stand corrected.  However, the website given above shows an example of a wool/poly blend manufactured in China!  What self respecting Scot would wear anything not made of wool (except maybe Sheena Easton in a vinyl jumpsuit)?  If it ain't scrrratchy it's crrrap!

I believe this website: http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/ (the official tartan registry) may be able to solve the mystery, but I can't query it right now.  I  can get on the website, but the firewall won't let me search it.
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