• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Armoured Crewman Weapons

ConsideringCareers… said:
Okay, screenshotted this too, that is really cool how the Tank Troop is laid out (with a Lieutenant/Tp Warrant/two MCpls or Sgts as the crew commanders of a respective tank) thank you for that.

(To Loachman: is the F Echelon the only one with the armoured guys crewing the vehicles in it, or are all the vehicles in all three (right? Three?) echelons crewed by armoured soldiers (and officers)?)

Just a few more questions for you guys, kinda off topic, as T2B said: Lieutenant is in charge of a troop. What is a 2Lt’s job in a troop/squadron, are they also in charge of troops? Do you start in charge of a troop (if you are an officer) as a 2Lt and then continue to be in charge of a troop as a Lt? When you are a captain are you going to then be in a higher position (Sqn 2I/C for example), after that the roles of higher ranks (and mostly the captain question) has been answered very well by other threads.

The reason I ask these things is that my parents (and grandpa (29 years in RCAF), and school Vice Principal (son is serving in the Navy)) tell me that I am “too smart” or have “too many leadership qualities” to be an NCM and that I would be better suited as an officer, I am just trying to do my research about all of this stuff.

Thanks in advance!
 
ConsideringCareers… said:
But can we please get back to my question, or should I post it into a more relevant thread.

I will repeat it:

As T2B said lieutenants are in charge of troops. My question is whether 2Lts are also in charge of a troop?, and if you are in charge of a troop from the time you become a 2Lt to when you become a Captain?

Here, read this thread

Life as an Armoured Officer  It might need some updating (but possibly not), however should answer your questions.

Usually when we talk about army lieutenants we group both varieties, 2nd Lts and Lts, together and often refer to them as subalterns.  What's the difference?  Generally, a 2nd Lt is an officer who has received his commission (i.e. completed basic training and met education requirements) and may or may not have completed his basic occupational training; a Lt is the same except that he has completed basic occupational training and had been a 2nd Lt for one year.  There will be, of course, some variations in the timelines to reach the dizzying heights of Lieutenant depending on the occupation.
 
Blackadder1916 said:
Usually when we talk about army lieutenants we group both varieties, 2nd Lts and Lts, together and often refer to them as subalterns.  What's the difference?  Generally, a 2nd Lt is an officer who has received his commission (i.e. completed basic training) and may or may not have completed his basic occupational training; a Lt is the same except that he has completed basic occupational training and had been a 2nd Lt for one year.  There will be, of course, some variations in the timelines to reach the dizzying heights of Lieutenant depending on the occupation.

The magic word in all this is "generally".

Nothing is written in stone.  What Blackadder1916 stated above is a "general" comment.  When it comes to 2nd Lts and Lts in training, it really has no signifigance.  A person could be untrained in their Trade as a 2nd Lt or as a Lt.  Their rank is determined by Ottawa as to what they were offered on entry into the CAF.  You can see officers training for a Cbt Arms Trade holding anywhere from an O/Cdts to a full Lts rank.  GENERALLY, an officer candidate on completion of their Ph IV training will be promoted soon to the rank of Lt; very seldom will they hold a 2nd Lt rank for any length of time after completing their Trades training.  Progression to Capt is very similar to the NCM progression to Cpl. 


 
I would take what your grandfather, parents and vice principal say with a grain of salt. Leadership qualified  ncms (an nco) gives officers their initial training. 
 
Jarnhamar said:
I would take what your grandfather, parents and vice principal say with a grain of salt. Leadership qualified  ncms (an nco) gives officers their initial training.

Okay, interesting, thank you
 
Jarnhamar said:
I would take what your grandfather, parents and vice principal say with a grain of salt. Leadership qualified  ncms (an nco) gives officers their initial training.

CC.

I would take what Jarnhammer says with a grain of salt as well.

He's quite right when he says that NCMs give officers their initial training. When I was an officer cadet, we had a warrant officer and two sergeants who were our instructors for basic military training and for basic artillery training. They taught me all the technical skills that I needed to know before joining my regiment.

Once I was commissioned as a junior officer and appointed a gun position officer I had a warrant officer troop sergeant major, a tech sergeant and three gun sergeants in my troop. They taught me how to put what I learned into practice and how to lead and take care of the young gunners that I'd been granted the privilege of having in my troop. At every step along the way within a regiment or battalion, an officer who is in a position of leadership has a senior NCM who is his right hand man. The learning never stops but the relationship changes with time. Over time, officers become more reliant on their own decision making processes and the various battery, squadron, company and regimental sergeant majors become less teachers and more trusted sounding boards and advisors. Almost all of the courses officers take after becoming captains are taught by more senior officers and not by NCMs.

I definitely disagree with your parents, etc that someone is "“too smart” or [has] “too many leadership qualities” to be an NCM and . . . would be better suited as an officer".  Many of the NCMs that I knew were every bit as smart as me and had equal or better leadership skills. Some of my peer officers were morons who couldn't lead a one man assault on a urinal. (and in fairness not every NCM is a bright spark either.) The point is there is no monopoly on brains in the officer corps.

IMHO what distinguishes the NCM and the officer cadre is more a matter of a career choice and temperament. As an NCM you are much more likely to stay close to your regiment or battalion and do the things that you joined the army for in the first place. As an officer your time with the regiment or battalion is generally limited and you will rotate in and out to other staff jobs which may be less interesting or less "fun". In fact as an officer you'll have to spend four years in university first before you even get to be near a regiment or battalion.

As an officer you will have more opportunity for higher rank (and therefore higher pay) but in exchange you will also spend much more time away from the field and in classrooms and offices. It's a trade off which depends much more on what you want out of your life then how smart you are.

If you are truly as smart as your parents and vice principal says, then you'll do well as either an NCM or officer.

Best of luck

:remembrance:
 
Thank you for the reply FJAG, both officer and NCM seem like very awesome jobs.



Kratz would like this thread to be more on topic so we should probably stop talking about this on here.

If you have any further replies that you believe to be helpful (to be honest: all replies are helpful) please PM them to me!


Thank you
 
ConsideringCareers… said:
If you have any further replies that you believe to be helpful (to be honest: all replies are helpful) please PM them to me!

Unless any further replies would be of a private and confidential nature, sharing them benefits other potential applicants.
 
ConsideringCareers… said:
Just a few more questions for you guys, kinda off topic, as T2B said: Lieutenant is in charge of a troop. What is a 2Lt’s job in a troop/squadron, are they also in charge of troops? Do you start in charge of a troop (if you are an officer) as a 2Lt and then continue to be in charge of a troop as a Lt? When you are a captain are you going to then be in a higher position (Sqn 2I/C for example), after that the roles of higher ranks (and mostly the captain question) has been answered very well by other threads.

The reason I ask these things is that my parents (and grandpa (29 years in RCAF), and school Vice Principal (son is serving in the Navy)) tell me that I am “too smart” or have “too many leadership qualities” to be an NCM and that I would be better suited as an officer, I am just trying to do my research about all of this stuff.

Thanks in advance!

If you go the officer route, your rank when you arrive at your regiment will depend on your entry plan and your path through the training system. You go through four courses each of roughly four months duration that fit nicely between academic years.

If you are an ROTP guy and follow the normal summer progression you would arrive at your Regiment in late August/early September as a 2Lt. You would command a Troop, assuming a Troop Leader position is vacant. You would Troop Lead for one or two years, and would be promoted to Lt one year after receiving your commission. You might then spend a third year at the Regiment in a role outside the Troops such as Transport Officer. Then you usually get posted to instruct at the Armour School or to. Reserve unit as the Regular Force guy.

If you were DEO you might arrive and be instantly promoted to Lt or Capt based on how long you spent in the training system after receiving your commission. You will still Troop Lead and be treated the same as the 2Lts that you arrive with from Gagetown. You would follow the same path as the ROTP folks.

Whether you return to the Regiment as a Captain depends largely on how your time went as a Subbie.

Good luck,

T2B
 
Tango2Bravo said:
If you go the officer route, your rank when you arrive at your regiment will depend on your entry plan and your path through the training system. You go through four courses each of roughly four months duration that fit nicely between academic years.

If you are an ROTP guy and follow the normal summer progression you would arrive at your Regiment in late August/early September as a 2Lt. You would command a Troop, assuming a Troop Leader position is vacant. You would Troop Lead for one or two years, and would be promoted to Lt one year after receiving your commission. You might then spend a third year at the Regiment in a role outside the Troops such as Transport Officer. Then you usually get posted to instruct at the Armour School or to. Reserve unit as the Regular Force guy.

If you were DEO you might arrive and be instantly promoted to Lt or Capt based on how long you spent in the training system after receiving your commission. You will still Troop Lead and be treated the same as the 2Lts that you arrive with from Gagetown. You would follow the same path as the ROTP folks.

Whether you return to the Regiment as a Captain depends largely on how your time went as a Subbie.

Good luck,

T2B

Спасибо за ваш ответ

Thank you for the reply!

Btw: I’m a russian spy, don’t tell anyone
 
Back
Top